Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 134 - AVS Forum
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Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP > Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014
zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k 02:25 PM 04-23-2013
My motto is 'go big or buy a TV'.... cool.gif

I have a 142" 16:9 2.8HP. It was one of the last 2.8 screens made. Dalite used to say you could not get a fixed frame screen larger than 133" but one day I called their VP of Marketing who custom ordered my Cinema Contour. Their internal staff didn't even know you could go that big without a seam. I would see if this is still possible with the 2.4HP material.

The HW50 @ 1000 D65 lumens (in 2D) can easily light up this screen with a near center mount for maximum gain. I can watch TV with a room full of lights without a problem. Obviously it looks much better with the light out, but nearly 3000 reflected lumens work well for ambient light viewing.

Done Deal DR's Avatar Done Deal DR 02:36 PM 04-23-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

My motto is 'go big or buy a TV'.... cool.gif

I have a 142" 16:9 2.8HP. It was one of the last 2.8 screens made. Dalite used to say you could not get a fixed frame screen larger than 133" but one day I called their VP of Marketing who custom ordered my Cinema Contour. Their internal staff didn't even know you could go that big without a seam. I would see if this is still possible with the 2.4HP material.

The HW50 @ 1000 D65 lumens (in 2D) can easily light up this screen with a near center mount for maximum gain. I can watch TV with a room full of lights without a problem. Obviously it looks much better with the light out, but nearly 3000 reflected lumens work well for ambient light viewing.

That's great info and worth looking into on the newer 2.4 material! 133" isn't bad but I'd really like to go even larger than that, if possible. I'm going to be calling Da-Lite sometime this week to request samples and I will ask at that time about the feasibility of going larger than 133" without seams. Other than not getting the full 2.4 gain, is there any adverse picture qualities that go along with not getting the projector perfectly in the middle of an HP screen? I'd imagine I will be at least 75% up on the screen, but I haven't yet finalized the locations.

Also (as I've read through this entire thread and respect your opinion), how do you feel the HP screen is with the lights out? I'm worried that I might be overcompensating for daytime viewing (which I do extremely little of as is with a 55" LED/LCD) and in turn have poor blackout viewing at night where almost all of my viewing is. Is there any screen anomalies that go along with a high gain/high lumen projector in a dark environment?

Lastly, did/does the HW50 have enough lumens with your high gain screen for great 3D? From reading this thread it seems like you were happy with the performance. I'm not a big 3D fan with past experiences but will definitely try it out.
zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k 03:42 PM 04-23-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Done Deal DR View Post

That's great info and worth looking into on the newer 2.4 material! 133" isn't bad but I'd really like to go even larger than that, if possible. I'm going to be calling Da-Lite sometime this week to request samples and I will ask at that time about the feasibility of going larger than 133" without seams. Other than not getting the full 2.4 gain, is there any adverse picture qualities that go along with not getting the projector perfectly in the middle of an HP screen? I'd imagine I will be at least 75% up on the screen, but I haven't yet finalized the locations.

Also (as I've read through this entire thread and respect your opinion), how do you feel the HP screen is with the lights out? I'm worried that I might be overcompensating for daytime viewing (which I do extremely little of as is with a 55" LED/LCD) and in turn have poor blackout viewing at night where almost all of my viewing is. Is there any screen anomalies that go along with a high gain/high lumen projector in a dark environment?

Lastly, did/does the HW50 have enough lumens with your high gain screen for great 3D? From reading this thread it seems like you were happy with the performance. I'm not a big 3D fan with past experiences but will definitely try it out.

Dalite makes a 159" Pull down model with the HP material, my guess is that they never made a SKU for a fixed frame HP larger than 133". I would send an email to Wendy Long (wlong@da-lite.com), she is the VP that helped me order the custom size Cinema Contour. Their own staff didn't think it was possible since it wasn't 'in the books'.

There is no real issue mounting it higher than center of screen, you just won't get as much gain.

I recently blacked out my room and I like the intense brightness more so now than ever. If you find it too bright at night, you can easily do 1 of 2 things. turn the lamp on low or set the iris to 'auto-limited' which will clamp down the iris so that peak brightness is reduced, yet still retain the full functionality of the dynamic iris.

The HW50 is around 800 lumens calibrated in 3D. It's bright enough to light up my HP in 3D.

let us know how you make out getting your big HP. biggrin.gif
Toe's Avatar Toe 03:47 PM 04-23-2013
Hey Zombie, wasn't there some Monsters Vs Aliens ghosting comparison shots done at some point? I was trying to find those and cant seem to track them down. I would have sworn there were some ghosting shots taken from that movie?

EDIT: Nevermind, I found them. I was looking in last years thread, but they are in this one.
R Harkness's Avatar R Harkness 04:23 PM 04-23-2013
JonStatt,

That was a very interesting post. Thanks.

Before I sold my RS20 to my friend I did comparisons between it and my new RS55 on my Stewart ST-130 screen, and my results - the RS20 being richer more film-like to me - were similar.
But maybe some of the other differences between models that you mention help explain things.
zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k 04:45 PM 04-23-2013
Rich, how is the convergence and focus uniformity on your RS55 vs your RS20? I wonder if there are sample variances to explain some of the differences you saw.

It would be hard for me to go back to a non e-shift JVC since I'm so used to it at this close seating distance.
coderguy's Avatar coderguy 05:19 PM 04-23-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

JonStatt,

That was a very interesting post. Thanks.

Before I sold my RS20 to my friend I did comparisons between it and my new RS55 on my Stewart ST-130 screen, and my results - the RS20 being richer more film-like to me - were similar.
But maybe some of the other differences between models that you mention help explain things.

I know you are a smart guy and I love your room btw, it's ingenius and I am forever amazed by it for real, I went to your thread so many times just to enjoy what you accomplished (and to be jealous).

I think your perspective is very valid, so not disagreeing, I really haven't A/B'd those two projectors enough to know. I will say this from my own A/B experiences though...

Calibrate, re-calibrate, calibrate again, this is so true when A/B'n two JVC's, you'll need to spend a good bit of time getting them to look identical from gamma and color, it won't be easy but you can do it.

Some projectors with certain content need many many hours to A/B. For instance, there are movies that favor less sharp projectors and will show less image noise for that reason. I've noticed some of the JVC's hide some of that noise a little better than newer JVC's, but they are not as sharp on average either. Let me say though I'll push again the calibration issue, I've seen multiple RS-20's in controlled setups and my friend owned one. It would be interesting if you could or a calibrator could A/B them and keep re-calibrating to get them to look as close as possible and watch both for hundreds of hours going back and forth in the SAME room. I did this with DLP vs. LCOS.

Everything has advantages / disadvantages unfortunately. There are even movies where e-shift should be turned off (sorry zombie), there are movies where sharpness should be increased, lowered, gamma changed, etc...
Oh such is life, I wish every movie used cameras and filming techniques as good as the best ones do, then it would all be easier.
zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k 10:28 PM 04-23-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post


One thing that I appreciate in this thread is the emphasis on 3D. I know there are some haters. I know some think its a passing fad. Watching movies is about enjoyment and fun. Our home cinemas, for videophile enthusiasts like ourselves can become an obsession to the point that we stop enjoying the film and spend our entire time analyzing the picture. I fell into this trap myself. I fondly remembered 3D as a child in the cinema seeing Jaws 3D. And that is exactly what 3D is today...fun. You can have a serious 2D movie session and you can have a fun 3D one. I don't see why one negates the other, rather they compliment as part of a total home viewing experience. I DO sympathise with the argument that 3D has been added to some movies for the sake of it and that it actually devalues 3D as a proposition for the future as a result. The vast majority of digital cinema projectors are too dim for 3D and devalue the experience in a theatre. But there are movies that I believe demonstrate that 3D does have a place now and in the future for cinema and home theatres alike. Aside from the obvious Avatar, titles like Life of Pi and Hugo are simply not the same in 2D. Movies like Jurassic Park are intended to be fun and nothing more than. If done correctly with JP 4 (I am aware of the re-invention of JP 1 into 3D) it could be great fun indeed. Dinosaurs in 3D...why on Earth not? smile.gif

I think 3D is safe for the time being. The constant influx of animations and super-hero movies should keep it going for a while.

Excellent conversions like Art of Flight 3D, Jurrassic Park 3D and Titanic 3D give me hope that some of the classics can be converted over successfully. These 3 movies are light years ahead of some early conversions like Clash of the Titans.

The next one the list would be Terminator 2, Alien, Aliens and The Abyss. Throw in Predator while were there.

Try to find a copy of 'Kingdom of the Plants' w/ David Attenborough. The 3D camera work is amazing.
R Harkness's Avatar R Harkness 06:41 AM 04-24-2013
Zombie,

Convergence was good on both my RS20 and RS55. RS55 a bit better, I believe.


coderguy,

Thanks for the comments on my home theater.
I'd love to be able to have my projector continually calibrated, but I haven't found anyone in or near Toronto to do so. So I've had to drive my projectors quite far in order
to get someone like umr to perform calibration.

I'm squeamish about getting into calibration myself due to equipment costs and I'm afraid of the time it sucks up and the nit-picking mindset ("hmm did I really get magenta correct? Is that a mid gamma shift I see?) that can arise. I'm trying to just enjoy watching movies as much as possible.
JonStatt's Avatar JonStatt 07:20 AM 04-24-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Zombie,

Convergence was good on both my RS20 and RS55. RS55 a bit better, I believe.


coderguy,

Thanks for the comments on my home theater.
I'd love to be able to have my projector continually calibrated, but I haven't found anyone in or near Toronto to do so. So I've had to drive my projectors quite far in order
to get someone like umr to perform calibration.

I'm squeamish about getting into calibration myself due to equipment costs and I'm afraid of the time it sucks up and the nit-picking mindset ("hmm did I really get magenta correct? Is that a mid gamma shift I see?) that can arise. I'm trying to just enjoy watching movies as much as possible.

I understand the reluctance to get into calibration. That being said, with the Radiance devices providing superb auto calibration features...you really can, set things up (15 minutes), press a few clicks and then leave the room and leave it to it. Of course there is still an outlay for the sensor, software and the Radiance....but I can imagine that umr is not cheap....and although his calibration will be really good in terms of gamma/greyscale, you need another box to nail the colour tracking within the triangle anyway. If you had a Radiance, umr would use it. Also as gamma/greyscale do move all the time, the accuracy you gain from umr's meter is short lived. What I am taking a long time to say is that although you cannot achieve his accuracy at a moment in time, on average your set-up will be better doing it yourself because you can do it more frequently.

P.S I am not trying to devalue the valuable service provided by calibrators. It is just if you have half an interest in doing it yourself, I think its a useful, rewarding and productive journey to go down.
Glenn Baumann's Avatar Glenn Baumann 10:28 AM 04-24-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

I understand the reluctance to get into calibration. That being said, with the Radiance devices providing superb auto calibration features...you really can, set things up (15 minutes), press a few clicks and then leave the room and leave it to it. Of course there is still an outlay for the sensor, software and the Radiance....but I can imagine that umr is not cheap....and although his calibration will be really good in terms of gamma/greyscale, you need another box to nail the colour tracking within the triangle anyway. If you had a Radiance, umr would use it. Also as gamma/greyscale do move all the time, the accuracy you gain from umr's meter is short lived. What I am taking a long time to say is that although you cannot achieve his accuracy at a moment in time, on average your set-up will be better doing it yourself because you can do it more frequently.

P.S I am not trying to devalue the valuable service provided by calibrators. It is just if you have half an interest in doing it yourself, I think its a useful, rewarding and productive journey to go down.

Jon,

I am curious about the feasability of DIY calibration for a relative newbie like me!

Would a Radiance Mini-3D sufffice and be all I would need for my total calibration needs for a JVC RS46? confused.gif

Also, what sensor and software is recommended and what is the general cost for them?

Thanks!


...Glenn smile.gif
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar AV Science Sales 5 11:07 AM 04-24-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Baumann View Post

Jon,

I am curious about the feasability of DIY calibration for a relative newbie like me!

Would a Radiance Mini-3D sufffice and be all I would need for my total calibration needs for a JVC RS46? confused.gif

Also, what sensor and software is recommended and what is the general cost for them?

Thanks!


...Glenn smile.gif

Spectracal and the Lumagen are a good match. I use the C6 with my Mini. Give AV Science a call if you have any questions.
JonStatt's Avatar JonStatt 11:51 AM 04-24-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Spectracal and the Lumagen are a good match. I use the C6 with my Mini. Give AV Science a call if you have any questions.

Mike is right here with a good set-up of Spectracal Calman, Lumagen Mini and a C6 device (Mike, don't forget my commission!) . On the outset it all seems a bit daunting, but it really isn't rocket science and the autocal really takes all the hard work out of it. Chromapure is a good alternative to Calman and you may want to evaluate the pricing of both options. The workflow is at a very simple level (and from memory).

Pre-step) Choose optimum settings on the projector that are well known to be closest to desired calibration. For example on a JVC this would be User 1, 6500K, Standard colourspace, 2.3 Gamma.

1) Connect a serial to USB cable from the Radiance Mini to a laptop
2) Connect the C6 device to the laptop
3) Run Spectracal Calman and choose the 3D Cube autocal workflow
4) Click through the workflow which analyses your current non-calibrated or old calibrated status automatically by pressing the "Read Series" button
5) Continue to click through the workflow and press the Autocal button for greyscale/gamma
6) Continue to click through the workflow and press the Autocal button for colour
7) Continue to click through the workflow to analyse your new calibrated set-up and show you how wonderful it is now!

Job done.

There are other tweaks to get every last lumen and optimisation such as perhaps starting at 7000K and then set the white balance (Red, green and blue gains on the projector) first. This is fairly simple to do but I found that Calman didn't have an issue if you didn't do this and there was no loss of lumens on my X70 when I tried it both ways around. But these are things you don't have to do on the outset and can fiddle more as you get more comfortable.
Glenn Baumann's Avatar Glenn Baumann 12:23 PM 04-24-2013
^^^

Thank you very much Jon for the informative breakdown and tips! biggrin.gif


...Glenn smile.gif
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar AV Science Sales 5 01:48 PM 04-24-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

Mike is right here with a good set-up of Spectracal Calman, Lumagen Mini and a C6 device (Mike, don't forget my commission!) . On the outset it all seems a bit daunting, but it really isn't rocket science and the autocal really takes all the hard work out of it. Chromapure is a good alternative to Calman and you may want to evaluate the pricing of both options. The workflow is at a very simple level (and from memory).

Pre-step) Choose optimum settings on the projector that are well known to be closest to desired calibration. For example on a JVC this would be User 1, 6500K, Standard colourspace, 2.3 Gamma.

1) Connect a serial to USB cable from the Radiance Mini to a laptop
2) Connect the C6 device to the laptop
3) Run Spectracal Calman and choose the 3D Cube autocal workflow
4) Click through the workflow which analyses your current non-calibrated or old calibrated status automatically by pressing the "Read Series" button
5) Continue to click through the workflow and press the Autocal button for greyscale/gamma
6) Continue to click through the workflow and press the Autocal button for colour
7) Continue to click through the workflow to analyse your new calibrated set-up and show you how wonderful it is now!

Job done.

There are other tweaks to get every last lumen and optimisation such as perhaps starting at 7000K and then set the white balance (Red, green and blue gains on the projector) first. This is fairly simple to do but I found that Calman didn't have an issue if you didn't do this and there was no loss of lumens on my X70 when I tried it both ways around. But these are things you don't have to do on the outset and can fiddle more as you get more comfortable.

The check is in the mail. smile.gif Reminded me to pull my Lumagen to run the update on it so I can try the 5x5x5 color cubed correction.
R Harkness's Avatar R Harkness 06:08 PM 04-24-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

I understand the reluctance to get into calibration. That being said, with the Radiance devices providing superb auto calibration features...you really can, set things up (15 minutes), press a few clicks and then leave the room and leave it to it. Of course there is still an outlay for the sensor, software and the Radiance....but I can imagine that umr is not cheap....and although his calibration will be really good in terms of gamma/greyscale, you need another box to nail the colour tracking within the triangle anyway. If you had a Radiance, umr would use it. Also as gamma/greyscale do move all the time, the accuracy you gain from umr's meter is short lived. What I am taking a long time to say is that although you cannot achieve his accuracy at a moment in time, on average your set-up will be better doing it yourself because you can do it more frequently.

P.S I am not trying to devalue the valuable service provided by calibrators. It is just if you have half an interest in doing it yourself, I think its a useful, rewarding and productive journey to go down.

That makes sense.

Wow I think I'd skimmed the term 'auto calibration' in the Radiance threads but didn't realize it really was an auto calibration feature the way you describe it. That's certainly intriguing.
You mention a meter. How much would I be spending for a decent meter?
JonStatt's Avatar JonStatt 04:01 AM 04-25-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

That makes sense.

Wow I think I'd skimmed the term 'auto calibration' in the Radiance threads but didn't realize it really was an auto calibration feature the way you describe it. That's certainly intriguing.
You mention a meter. How much would I be spending for a decent meter?

Decent is a relative term of course Rich. The C6 meter that has been referenced is a special Calman branded i1 display 3. It has been profiled against a reference meter. These type of meters do drift after a year or so but you can send it for recalibration periodically. The meter on its own is 699 USD full retail, but there are bundles with Calman, and I am sure AVS can do you a deal (plus my commission!). Kris Deering likes the C6 a lot. If you prefer the Chromapure route, then you can get the equivalent i1 display type meter with a pre-defined profile to work with Chromapure as well.

Of course there are many many other meter choices. For example the i1 pro 2 which never drifts, is more accurate without needing special profiling, but is not so good at very low IRE levels and is much much slower.
R Harkness's Avatar R Harkness 10:38 AM 04-25-2013
Thanks again Jon. I will definitely file that info away for future use.

I bought into an expensive RTI remote system for my set up and while it works very well, I'm tethered to having to call a dealer every time I need any of the programming done or tweaked (at quite an expense). Getting fed up with that so I like the idea of becoming more self-sufficient all around. If a Lumagen etc makes calibration less of a hassle and I don't demand perfection (ha!) maybe that's another move I'll make.
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar AV Science Sales 5 12:00 PM 04-25-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

Decent is a relative term of course Rich. The C6 meter that has been referenced is a special Calman branded i1 display 3. It has been profiled against a reference meter. These type of meters do drift after a year or so but you can send it for recalibration periodically. The meter on its own is 699 USD full retail, but there are bundles with Calman, and I am sure AVS can do you a deal (plus my commission!). Kris Deering likes the C6 a lot. If you prefer the Chromapure route, then you can get the equivalent i1 display type meter with a pre-defined profile to work with Chromapure as well.

Of course there are many many other meter choices. For example the i1 pro 2 which never drifts, is more accurate without needing special profiling, but is not so good at very low IRE levels and is much much slower.

The slower part will really make a difference if you are going to do the 5x5x5 color cubed calibration.
biliam1982's Avatar biliam1982 07:48 PM 04-25-2013
Can any of you who tell me some of differences and performance aspects between the BenQ W7000/Acer H9500BD/Sharp XV-Z30000/MITSUBISHI HC7900DW?

I can get the Acer for about $1k and a used BenQ for about 500 bones more. A new BenQ/Sharp/Mitsubishi are all within a couple hundred dollars of the same price. Trying to decide what will work best for me. I think I want to stay DLP for good 3D. I don't have many other options because I need some vertical lens shift as I can't ceiling mount it. I'm pretty sure I'm going with a Da-Lite HCHP to help with brightness in 3D and also as it will be in a living room environment. Might get a ND filter to help with blacks and cut back brightness at night while in 2D.

Some questions I can think of are:
Best black levels?
What are the refresh rates of them in terms of doing 24p properly? I see some of the new glasses do 144hz but do any of these projectors support that? Though I thought they were all 120hz projectors.
What advanced features do they have compared to one another and do they work in 3D? Like I've read the Sharp doesn't have CFI? I found CFI to be helpful for 3D and Sports/Animation.
Anyone have thoughs on this or any other info I might find useful in picking one of them?

Thanks for all your help!
zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k 09:45 PM 04-25-2013
If you go with the high power, I would recommend staying with the regular 2.4 HP material. Only the BenQ W7000 and Sharp 30k are fully compatible with the High Power screen since they can be center mounted for maximum gain. You can't do this with the Acer 9500 or Mitsubishi HC7900.

None of these projectors support the 144hz refresh. You may not miss the CFI on the Sharp, overall it looks good with most content. It has better contrast in 2D and 3D vs. The BenQ W7000, but the W7000 has brighter 3D.

How big is the screen going to be?
biliam1982's Avatar biliam1982 10:17 PM 04-25-2013
Thanks Zombie! Didn't even catch that those had "limited" Vertical Lens Shift.

Screen will probably be somewhere between 54-60" high in Scope. Why do you reccomend the regular HP vs the HCHP?

What are the trade offs of the Sharp vs the BenQ?

I see the Sharp has a longer Warranty and higher contrast while the BenQ is brighter and has CFI. Any other major points of difference?
zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k 10:44 PM 04-25-2013
There was some mention recently that the texture was more noticeable than the regular HP material.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1449462/draper-contrast-radiant-vs-da-lite-high-contrast-high-power-hchp

The W7000 is a touch sharper than the 30k, but you wouldn't see the difference unless directly compared to one another.

Those are the main differences you mentioned, brighter and CFI for the W7000 and better contrast for the Sharp 30k. The Sharp does have electronic focus / lens shift vs. manual on the W7000.

3D-color2.jpg
biliam1982's Avatar biliam1982 01:46 AM 04-26-2013
Aside from the texture issue (which I thought I remember reading in another thread that either him or someone else sent it back and had them QC the next screen before sending his replacement to make sure it didn't have that issue and it turned out ok), is there any other performance differences between them? I thought the HCHP would help with blacks and ambient light more as it will be in a living room w/ decent light control but beige/tan colored walls I can't do anything about.

Could you say how much better the blacks are on the Sharp?

Lastly (I think smile.gif), what Lumen numbers do you have for them? Or are yours pretty close to the ones in the reviews from PR and PC?

Thanks again!
coderguy's Avatar coderguy 05:38 AM 04-26-2013
So you are looking at 145"+ scope screen, the Sharp is NOT bright enough in 3D for those giant screens, though overall it's up to you. The Sharp will be bright enough in 2D with an HP screen (depending where you mount it), and depending on how bright you like the image.
For CIH though, you need to go with the Sharp (or Mits) for a scope screen, but the Sharp will beat the Mits at this since the Sharp has actual motorized lens memory. The Mits is at least do-able in CIH, while Sharp being the best, but the others not so much. The others will be very klunky and require manual adjusting if you try watching 16:9 content on a 2.35 screen with the other projectors.

Since you have light-colored walls, the projector will not appear as bright as if you had dark-colored walls (due to light reflection). I would personally choose a smaller screen though as I think you are pushing it, but again it depends how close you can get your projector mounted to the center of the screen with the HP.
zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k 12:00 PM 04-26-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by biliam1982 View Post

Aside from the texture issue (which I thought I remember reading in another thread that either him or someone else sent it back and had them QC the next screen before sending his replacement to make sure it didn't have that issue and it turned out ok), is there any other performance differences between them? I thought the HCHP would help with blacks and ambient light more as it will be in a living room w/ decent light control but beige/tan colored walls I can't do anything about.

Could you say how much better the blacks are on the Sharp?

Lastly (I think smile.gif), what Lumen numbers do you have for them? Or are yours pretty close to the ones in the reviews from PR and PC?

Thanks again!

It may be more than the texture, I recall reading that the uniformity wasn't as consistent as the regular HP material.

The blacks on the Sharp30K are something in between the W7000 and the Epson 5020/Sony HW50. They look similar to last year's Sony HW30. What I would say is, unless you are watching a lot of sci-fi or stage concerts, it won't be be very noticeable between the W7000 and Sharp 30K. With bright and mixed contrast scenes, it would be hard to tell apart. If you were watching Dark Night Rises or UnderWorld Evolution, you will see the differences.

regarding lumen output, the Sharp 30k was ~1100 in non-calibrated mode, 950 @ D65 which is quite good. In 3D, the lumen output drops to ~600 or so. You won't find any 3D lumen measurements on PR or PC, they don't publish this info for some reason.

The W7000 is ~ 1050 in 2D, D65 calibration. The 3D lumens drop to ~890 with a 3D color calibration behind the glasses. The W7000 is brighter in 3D by ~200-250 lumens.
Drexler's Avatar Drexler 07:35 AM 04-27-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by biliam1982 View Post

Aside from the texture issue (which I thought I remember reading in another thread that either him or someone else sent it back and had them QC the next screen before sending his replacement to make sure it didn't have that issue and it turned out ok), is there any other performance differences between them? I thought the HCHP would help with blacks and ambient light more as it will be in a living room w/ decent light control but beige/tan colored walls I can't do anything about.

Could you say how much better the blacks are on the Sharp?

Lastly (I think smile.gif), what Lumen numbers do you have for them? Or are yours pretty close to the ones in the reviews from PR and PC?

Thanks again!

I have both the HP and the HCHP in my setup. They are very similar in look, however, the HCHP spreads significantly less light around the room which helps when you have light walls/ceiling. Texture wise I don't notice any difference. In my room which has a lot of white surfaces, the HCHP looks better, with less wash out in mixed scenes.
zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k 07:40 AM 04-27-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drexler View Post

I have both the HP and the HCHP in my setup. They are very similar in look, however, the HCHP spreads significantly less light around the room which helps when you have light walls/ceiling. Texture wise I don't notice any difference. In my room which has a lot of white surfaces, the HCHP looks better, with less wash out in mixed scenes.

Thanks for the info. Is this with ambient light viewing or lights out?
zombie10k's Avatar zombie10k 08:22 AM 04-27-2013
Has anyone seen Jurrassic Park 3D yet? I thought they did a great conversion on this. The depth in many scenes looks excellent.

The only issue is the DNR is a little intense compared to the 2011 2D release.

http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/comparison.php?art=part&x=567&y=282&action=1&image=3&cID=1633&cap1=21058&cap2=3000&lossless=#vergleich
Drexler's Avatar Drexler 09:01 AM 04-27-2013
Always without ambient light. The HP is a bit larger though, which brings its top edge closer to the white ceiling (the HP is a 119' 1.78:1 screen and the HCHP a 2.40:1 screen of the same width, both having the center of the screen at the same spot). So it's not a completely fair test. However, the difference is rather significant and the HCHP is spreading a lot less light. This can be easily seen by watching the brigthness from far angles. The question is how much of the improvement is size related and how much is due to the material...

The structure is the same, but I have of course only seen my own screens so it might be that the HCHP has had more problems with consistency in manufacturing. I can only ever report what I see. smile.gif
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