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post #4021 of 9895 Old 04-27-2013, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
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thanks for the info. I've only seen the original 2.4 vs the 2.8 in my HT.

airscapes posted an interesting closeup a while back. it looks like the 2.8 has a larger, more consistently sized bead + spacing vs. the original 2.4 HP.

2.8HP on left, 2.4HP (non HC) on the right.

HP-compare.jpg
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post #4022 of 9895 Old 04-28-2013, 12:47 AM
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When I was looking through this thread a while ago I thought that I saw some recommended settings for the JVC RS4810. I just got mine going today & I must say I was blown away by the PQ straight out of the box. I've been looking for the preferred settings & I can't seem to find them. Any help from anyone? Thanks!

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post #4023 of 9895 Old 04-28-2013, 01:57 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

thanks for the info. I've only seen the original 2.4 vs the 2.8 in my HT.

airscapes posted an interesting closeup a while back. it looks like the 2.8 has a larger, more consistently sized bead + spacing vs. the original 2.4 HP.

2.8HP on left, 2.4HP (non HC) on the right.

HP-compare.jpg

I actually have a 2.8 HP and 2.4 HPHC in my possession currently. I had a few issues with texture with the first 2.4 screen I received. I want to point out that Da-Lite has rectified themselves and all the issues that I had previously seen are gone with the replacement screen. The 2.8 HP screen is a little nicer due to the fact that the substrate that the beads are put onto is much smoother whereas the 2.4 has an inherent crosshatch pattern (like the majority of Da-Lite's current materials). Other than that both screens have a very similar viewing experience. Both look a little noisey on bright scenes, in particular solid color backgrounds like a blue sky or clouds. That noise is going to be on any Da-Lite HP screen no matter the gain. Like I said though, Da-Lite seems to be aware of the texture issue that people (including myself) were complaining about and have seemed to fix it on the manufacturing floor and both 2.4 and 2.8 materials are very close in performance now with the 2.8 having a slightly higher gain and slightly smoother surface. If you're using anything other than the SHARPEST single chip DLP ( and I'm talking about a Marantz, Runco, Sim2, or high end Samsung) you aren't going to see a loss in sharpness with all 3 chip solutions and cheaper single chip (read .65" DMD) DLP projectors. In that case the new 2.4 gain material will suffice in 95% of applications where high gain is needed.

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post #4024 of 9895 Old 04-28-2013, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Has anyone seen Jurrassic Park 3D yet? I thought they did a great conversion on this. The depth in many scenes looks excellent.

The only issue is the DNR is a little intense compared to the 2011 2D release.

http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/comparison.php?art=part&x=567&y=282&action=1&image=3&cID=1633&cap1=21058&cap2=3000&lossless=#vergleich

I watched this because quite a few had commented favourably on it. It was okay but I didn't think the 3D was that special to be honest. Yes there was added depth and I enjoyed watching it immensely. I haven't watched this film since the late nineties. I guess I expected more "fun play" with the dinosuars in 3d but it didn't really happen. I am sure that will come in JP 4!
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post #4025 of 9895 Old 04-28-2013, 06:56 AM
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I saw some discussion about choosing projectors and perhaps choosing a cheaper or different projector because their room was not optimal, and therefore the higher contrast would not be beneficial and would be wasted.

Let me state very clearly, that you CAN see the contrast improvement on a higher end projector regardless of room. You will not be able to get the full appreciation of a superbly low black level in all instances, but there will still be a difference nonetheless.

Also I want to touch on projector choice where lumens can be too high and the choice of choosing a dynamic iris vs a fixed one.

Firstly lets state the obvious gain that a high contrast projector can achieve. Fade to blacks. A fade to black that ends up being a fade to grey is very unsatisfying indeed. How important is a fade to black? Well I used to get very irritated by a fade to grey, and I have found with my RS56/X75 that the inky blacks add to the suspense or pause that the movie director intended. This actually carries more weight than you might think.

Why would you get a fade to grey? Well apart from the obvious poor contrast projector, you may struggle even with the Sony HW50 in some instances. For example, consider that you have a smaller 80" diagonal screen and have no choice but to position the projector at closest throw (which gives the brightest output). If the iris is set to dynamic, when you are displaying some predominately dark scenes but with some light objects like bright candles, the blacks will be lifted by the iris being opened to a distracting level. Now you can force the iris to be fixed down on the Sony, but then you severely limit the contrast range the projector is capable of. With Sony's and any projectors with dynamic iris, you need to carefully consider what the black level will be for your specific screen (gain and size) as well as projector positioning (long or short throw). While the bright output may be a triumph in some viewing environments, it can work negatively in others. This is an advantage to the JVC which achieves its contrast natively. The iris is only there to set the black level and peak white to match the viewing room conditions, and in fact in this instance, the more you lock it down, the better the contrast is which is the opposite to the Sony. This is not a bias for JVC...I just wanted to illustrate how complex this topic is and the importance of careful evaluation for your specific environment.

But for a typical scene, would a projector with a greater contrast ratio still gain In a room with white walls? The answer is yes. To explain this, consider the following. If your projector is set such that it outputs 12ftL (100 IRE white) as measured off your screen, it doesn't matter which projector you choose, the amount of light that will be reflected onto walls, and then back onto the screen will be the same. However consider you are watching a 2:35:1 film on a 16:9 screen. This will have black borders at the top and bottom. The black borders WILL be compromised in a poor viewing room as the light reflected off the screen, onto the walls and back onto the black border areas will lift the black level and make those borders more noticeable. However, this reflected light is all added to whatever minimum black level was already there. If the black borders are already compromised because the dynamic iris is fully open, or the projector simply has poor blacks, all of this will be added to the reflected light.

I don't have a controlled room at preset (one day I will). But the apparent difference between projectors of different contrast capabilities is still profoundly obvious. So while you may not get the best viewing experience by a long way, it doesn't mean a better projector won't still perform better in your room. This challenge is increased for the imperfect room when you consider the effect of a dynamic iris. I have been very impressed with some grey screen materials which attempt to reject ambient light reflections and reduce some of the "splashback" from light coloured walls.
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post #4026 of 9895 Old 04-28-2013, 07:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

I watched this because quite a few had commented favourably on it. It was okay but I didn't think the 3D was that special to be honest. Yes there was added depth and I enjoyed watching it immensely. I haven't watched this film since the late nineties. I guess I expected more "fun play" with the dinosuars in 3d but it didn't really happen. I am sure that will come in JP 4!

I guess I was impressed that it didn't end up looking like 'Clash of the Titans'... cool.gif

I watched this on the Sharp 30K 3D DLP projector. It has glasses that can easily switch back and forth between 2D and 3D. I kept doing this the entire movie and always preferred the extra depth. it's amazing when they are in the Ford Explorers how much spacial positioning they were able to achieve with the 2D source.

also, I'm a big fan of this movie so that had some influence there was well. I still have my LaserDisc version with the DTS track I was so proud of years ago.
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post #4027 of 9895 Old 04-28-2013, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I guess I was impressed that it didn't end up looking like 'Clash of the Titans'... cool.gif

I watched this on the Sharp 30K 3D DLP projector. It has glasses that can easily switch back and forth between 2D and 3D. I kept doing this the entire movie and always preferred the extra depth. it's amazing when they are in the Ford Explorers how much spacial positioning they were able to achieve with the 2D source.

also, I'm a big fan of this movie so that had some influence there was well. I still have my LaserDisc version with the DTS track I was so proud of years ago.

I also have the laser disc version still! My Pioneer 2950 player is still working smile.gif
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post #4028 of 9895 Old 04-28-2013, 07:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

I saw some discussion about choosing projectors and perhaps choosing a cheaper or different projector because their room was not optimal, and therefore the higher contrast would not be beneficial and would be wasted.

Let me state very clearly, that you CAN see the contrast improvement on a higher end projector regardless of room. You will not be able to get the full appreciation of a superbly low black level in all instances, but there will still be a difference nonetheless.

Also I want to touch on projector choice where lumens can be too high and the choice of choosing a dynamic iris vs a fixed one.

Firstly lets state the obvious gain that a high contrast projector can achieve. Fade to blacks. A fade to black that ends up being a fade to grey is very unsatisfying indeed. How important is a fade to black? Well I used to get very irritated by a fade to grey, and I have found with my RS56/X75 that the inky blacks add to the suspense or pause that the movie director intended. This actually carries more weight than you might think.

Why would you get a fade to grey? Well apart from the obvious poor contrast projector, you may struggle even with the Sony HW50 in some instances. For example, consider that you have a smaller 80" diagonal screen and have no choice but to position the projector at closest throw (which gives the brightest output). If the iris is set to dynamic, when you are displaying some predominately dark scenes but with some light objects like bright candles, the blacks will be lifted by the iris being opened to a distracting level. Now you can force the iris to be fixed down on the Sony, but then you severely limit the contrast range the projector is capable of. With Sony's and any projectors with dynamic iris, you need to carefully consider what the black level will be for your specific screen (gain and size) as well as projector positioning (long or short throw). While the bright output may be a triumph in some viewing environments, it can work negatively in others. This is an advantage to the JVC which achieves its contrast natively. The iris is only there to set the black level and peak white to match the viewing room conditions, and in fact in this instance, the more you lock it down, the better the contrast is which is the opposite to the Sony. This is not a bias for JVC...I just wanted to illustrate how complex this topic is and the importance of careful evaluation for your specific environment.

jon, this is great info thanks for posting. Before I blacked out my room, I could still easily see the difference between the RS55 vs. the BenQ W7000 which is good at some things (flawless 3D, very bright) but the black floor / contrast is on the opposite spectrum of the JVC. It was less obvious with the HW50 and 5020 vs. the JVC (still noticeable, just not as obvious). This was mainly because of the wash I was getting from my HP screen being 3 inches from a white ceiling.

After blacking out the room, I can finally see the true ability of the JVC. The closest thing I've seen under 10k is the VW95, but I find the JVC has sharper focus + the benefits of the e-shift on my large screen.

I'm a big fan of dark sci-fi. Aliens, Underworld, Matrix, Terminator series, etc. With the HP screen I need the lowest possible black floor. Seeing dark grey when it should be more perceived as black takes me out of the movie. The JVC kills with these movies vs. all the the other projectors I've seen over the last 2 years. There is only so much a DI can do with these low APL scenes. I have my iris clamped @ -11 but can go even lower.

The RS55 lives on until something amazing comes out for ~10K.
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post #4029 of 9895 Old 04-28-2013, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I could still easily see the difference between the RS55 vs. the BenQ W7000 which is good at some things (flawless 3D, very bright) but the black floor / contrast is on the opposite spectrum of the JVC.

It doesn't take much to see the difference between the JVC and Benq in contrast, I don't even need dark scenes to see the difference, any near-evening time brightness and it's very apparent, maybe even a notch above that.

I have all black everything except my sofa which is a chocolate brown, and a few spots on the carpet which I haven't covered up yet because I got tired of online rug shopping (couldn't make up my mind for color matching). I move most of my projection equipment to the living room in summer because I am renting and my HT room is a small room (too small to use in the summer, hence it gets too hot down here near Mexico). I had to do something sort of like Rich H did to his living room, but on a much more manual scale (manual 9' tall curtains draw-back 17 feet). Beyond the 17 feet the room is angled and the light doesn't reflect. The curtains are thin but 100% blackout, so when you roll them to open the room back up they don't get all "wadded", but instead nicely move. I can transform the room from a bright living room to an HT in about 2 minutes. For the ceiling, I had someone sew on "slide material" behind these new curtains I bought, so that instead of curtains having one slot like they would when on a wall, they have 3 and I can slide them across the ceiling to cover the ceiling. Installing this was not fun, I think my back is still sore. The way I did it, when you slide the curtains across the ceiling, they sag a bit but the sag effect is actually sort of cool looking and kind of leans more towards an HT look. When you open the curtains, they do not look abnormal, it all hides itself (that was the hard part, took me forever).

I made a convertible ceiling smile.gif

I broke up the black monotony using fake plants on small tables. It could always be better, I still have to use dark furniture in the first 20' of the living room, but no-one has said my living room is too dark when I draw the curtains open. The plants don't reflect much since they are off-to the side and sitting on tables covered in black velvet. I used pattern rugs to cover the carpet, and if you do it right you can get very close to having all black carpet without actually buying 100% dark rugs (hard to explain). The trick with the HP screen is more so to blacken the middle carpet area (dark curtains absorb most of the sides), and the reflections behind (but my living room is 35' long so I don't really have the back-reflection issue). I still have a projector in the room I use for HTPC, but I don't use it during summer very much, if at all.


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post #4030 of 9895 Old 04-28-2013, 08:41 AM - Thread Starter
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I also have the laser disc version still! My Pioneer 2950 player is still working smile.gif

My Pioneer CLD-99 and Laseractive A-100 are still alive and well. let's bring back those cherry side panels to add a little class to the HT rack. cool.gif

The A-100 was an odd hybrid device - laser disc player + laseractive LD games + the ability to play sega genesis games. It still works perfect and can play Sonic the Hedgehog like a champ.

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post #4031 of 9895 Old 04-28-2013, 10:50 AM
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Man, I swear that pool table gets used for everything BUT pool haha

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post #4032 of 9895 Old 04-28-2013, 11:35 PM
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When I was looking through this thread a while ago I thought that I saw some recommended settings for the JVC RS4810. I just got mine going today & I must say I was blown away by the PQ straight out of the box. I've been looking for the preferred settings & I can't seem to find them. Any help from anyone? Thanks!

Bump for some help here?

I was surprised at how good my RS4810 looked today when my daughter was watching "Phantom Of The Opera" with the room pretty bright still. I don't have my blackout blinds up yet or my door framed in so the room was pretty bright & the picture looked pretty damn good! And the lamp is on the low mode too! biggrin.gif

Still want some help with settings that have been found to be pretty good. There are a lot of things that can be played with on this projector! Thanks!

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post #4033 of 9895 Old 04-28-2013, 11:43 PM
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As a rule of thumb you'll want to turn down sharpness and noise reduction down all the way. A lot of times they're set at default on and at a fairly high level. If you can get your hands on a reference calibration disc like DVE or the Spears and Munsil disc there are plenty of patterns and test materials on them to set contrast and brightness appropriately. If they're too much money for you there's actually a free AVS disc floating around this forum you can download and use. As far as setting color, you can try peoples' settings, but know that many things factor in to get better results than what you currently have which is why it's not recommended to use other people's color settings. You'll want a professional to do it or purchase a meter and you can attempt to adjust the color/greyscale yourself at home. That should get you started.
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post #4034 of 9895 Old 04-29-2013, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

I saw some discussion about choosing projectors and perhaps choosing a cheaper or different projector because their room was not optimal, and therefore the higher contrast would not be beneficial and would be wasted.

Let me state very clearly, that you CAN see the contrast improvement on a higher end projector regardless of room. You will not be able to get the full appreciation of a superbly low black level in all instances, but there will still be a difference nonetheless.

I totally agree with this. Back in 2011 I had a normal, bright room but fancied a more higher specced projector. I was always told that unless my room was a batcave, it would be a waste of money. I did some experimenting and bought an Optoma HD87 and a JVC HD750 and I could easily see the benefit.

Let me put the results into pictures.

This is a typical wall in the room as it was back in 2011:

14.jpg

In a dark scene (forest scene, LOTR 2 towers) the reflections were so low that I had to over expose to make reflections on the wall visible:

DSC00885.jpg

Not much reflected light, despite the poor walls. The next image is how it looked during a very bright scene, and using the same exposure as above, you can clearly see the reflections are much higher. (bear in mind both are over-exposed to the same degree - this was necessary to show the difference in reflected light but its not what it looks like in reality - both are a bit less bright)

DSC00886.jpg

So thats what happens to walls with different scenes in a movie. Jon referred to raising the black levels on the projected black bars and this is what can be seen in these images below.

This is a copy and paste from my experiment thread on avforums back in 2011:

Ok, so here's the result of my latest experiment. Please note, these aren't reference pics as to how a projected image will look in your room. I can manipulate my camera to show whatever I want and I've done so to enable me to show the results. You see, between dark and bright scenes, your eye will adjust. For the test, I need to set my camera up so thats its fixed setting for each picture in the test - and therefore, the camera's 'pupil' stays fixed, unlike the human eye.

I've used the same scene's as shown with the HD87 earlier - the snowy mountain for bright, the forest scene for dark and I added a midrange scene as well. I set the camera to take a pic of the bottom left corner of the screen. In picture, at the bottom is my black velvet screen border - above this border, on the right you will see the JVC projecting its black bars - above this, you will see part of the actual on screen image and to the left, you will see my white screen material (with nothing projecting onto it)

On the white screen to the left, even though nothing is being projected onto it, you will see the level of washout light arriving back towards the screen. It varies on each scene, almost like a washout measurement tool. On the projected blackout bars you will see how this washout light reduces the JVC's ability to show black.

Before I show the test results, here are the 3 images used, one bright, one average, one dark:

DSC00887.jpg

DSC00890.jpg

DSC00888.jpg

And here are the test results:

DSC00898.jpg
DSC00897.jpg
DSC00896.jpg

And to mention again, this isn't what my eye sees, just an experiment to show how the level of washout light on each scene. My eye sees much darker than any of the shots above.

Whats interesting, in the dark scene, just directly above is that the JVC is trying to project a black bar, the area to the right. The level of washout light is on the left, which isn't a huge amount in comparison to the black bar. So I think its safe to say that here, the amount of reflected light in the room isn't doing very much damage to the JVC's ability to project black as the JVC's projected black is still higher in light output than the level of light being reflected back.

You will also notice that as I move to the brighter scene's, the JVC then loses its ability to project the black bar and washout starts to come into play, making the black bars brighter. And the brightness of the area to the left (which is my washout measuring tool if you like) increases too. I also see this with my own eyes too but not to the same extent as in the pics above, much more subtle changes than that. I also made reference earlier that in really dark scenes I get a flavour of what the JVC can do for projecting blacks and shadow detail and this test helps show what I mean.

The whole point of the thread to begin with was to answer the question, will one of the higher spec PJ's show benefit in a regular room? The answer is yes. Not in every scene, but the improvements are there. For the more high contrast, dark and light together scenes, the room will do quite a bit of damage to the image, but it will still look at least as good and most likely better than a low contrast machine. But for fairly dark scenes, you'll be able to reap the benefit of those deeper blacks time and time again.
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post #4035 of 9895 Old 04-29-2013, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

I saw some discussion about choosing projectors and perhaps choosing a cheaper or different projector because their room was not optimal, and therefore the higher contrast would not be beneficial and would be wasted.

Let me state very clearly, that you CAN see the contrast improvement on a higher end projector regardless of room. You will not be able to get the full appreciation of a superbly low black level in all instances, but there will still be a difference nonetheless.

Also I want to touch on projector choice where lumens can be too high and the choice of choosing a dynamic iris vs a fixed one.

Firstly lets state the obvious gain that a high contrast projector can achieve. Fade to blacks. A fade to black that ends up being a fade to grey is very unsatisfying indeed. How important is a fade to black? Well I used to get very irritated by a fade to grey, and I have found with my RS56/X75 that the inky blacks add to the suspense or pause that the movie director intended. This actually carries more weight than you might think.

Why would you get a fade to grey? Well apart from the obvious poor contrast projector, you may struggle even with the Sony HW50 in some instances. For example, consider that you have a smaller 80" diagonal screen and have no choice but to position the projector at closest throw (which gives the brightest output). If the iris is set to dynamic, when you are displaying some predominately dark scenes but with some light objects like bright candles, the blacks will be lifted by the iris being opened to a distracting level. Now you can force the iris to be fixed down on the Sony, but then you severely limit the contrast range the projector is capable of. With Sony's and any projectors with dynamic iris, you need to carefully consider what the black level will be for your specific screen (gain and size) as well as projector positioning (long or short throw). While the bright output may be a triumph in some viewing environments, it can work negatively in others. This is an advantage to the JVC which achieves its contrast natively. The iris is only there to set the black level and peak white to match the viewing room conditions, and in fact in this instance, the more you lock it down, the better the contrast is which is the opposite to the Sony. This is not a bias for JVC...I just wanted to illustrate how complex this topic is and the importance of careful evaluation for your specific environment.

But for a typical scene, would a projector with a greater contrast ratio still gain In a room with white walls? The answer is yes. To explain this, consider the following. If your projector is set such that it outputs 12ftL (100 IRE white) as measured off your screen, it doesn't matter which projector you choose, the amount of light that will be reflected onto walls, and then back onto the screen will be the same. However consider you are watching a 2:35:1 film on a 16:9 screen. This will have black borders at the top and bottom. The black borders WILL be compromised in a poor viewing room as the light reflected off the screen, onto the walls and back onto the black border areas will lift the black level and make those borders more noticeable. However, this reflected light is all added to whatever minimum black level was already there. If the black borders are already compromised because the dynamic iris is fully open, or the projector simply has poor blacks, all of this will be added to the reflected light.

I don't have a controlled room at preset (one day I will). But the apparent difference between projectors of different contrast capabilities is still profoundly obvious. So while you may not get the best viewing experience by a long way, it doesn't mean a better projector won't still perform better in your room. This challenge is increased for the imperfect room when you consider the effect of a dynamic iris. I have been very impressed with some grey screen materials which attempt to reject ambient light reflections and reduce some of the "splashback" from light coloured walls.

Good post and many fail to think about this.

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post #4036 of 9895 Old 04-29-2013, 09:25 AM
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A better projector is better contrast in a room with reflective walls, as long as there is not ambient light, but usually with ambient light you just need to get the thing brighter. In a poor room don't forget to re-calibrate the projector. You can make a poor room a good room without completely sacrificing aesthetics, I've done it recently, though there are some sacrifices.


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post #4037 of 9895 Old 04-29-2013, 01:59 PM
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Just realized I shouldve gotten a grey screen. Now im painting, draping and velveting. Probably wouldve had to prep the room anyway...oh well.
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post #4038 of 9895 Old 04-30-2013, 01:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soupdragon View Post




The whole point of the thread to begin with was to answer the question, will one of the higher spec PJ's show benefit in a regular room? The answer is yes. Not in every scene, but the improvements are there. For the more high contrast, dark and light together scenes, the room will do quite a bit of damage to the image, but it will still look at least as good and most likely better than a low contrast machine. But for fairly dark scenes, you'll be able to reap the benefit of those deeper blacks time and time again.

Thank you for putting some evidence behind the theories! Great post.

Possibly this should have been a thread on its own so it gets seen more easily in the future. This thread has a lot of good stuff in it that is buried unfortunately.

I see so many official reviews stating "there is no point in buying this model over cheaper offerings unless you have a proper viewing room with black walls/ceilings etc". I have seen it said time and time again. And while you won't get the best out of any projector in an imperfect room, to say there is no point is factually incorrect. I also appreciate Coderguy's point that there is a difference between ambient light leakage and simply having white walls and ceilings. In terms of ambient light though, if you have a projector like a JVC and your screen size/gain/throw etc mean you can clamp the iris right down during evening/night viewings, then there should be enough brightness available on tap by opening it up if you want to use it during the day.
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post #4039 of 9895 Old 04-30-2013, 02:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n8dgr84 View Post

Just realized I shouldve gotten a grey screen. Now im painting, draping and velveting. Probably wouldve had to prep the room anyway...oh well.

What you are doing will definitely give you the best end result though. Grey screens are a Band-Aid which are very useful, but no substitute for doing the job properly!

Grey screens have two challenges. One is that that most of them have a blue bias. As with UHP (SHP) lamps, the red is normally the first colour to drop away, this means that you will end up losing more brightness/contrast with this kind of material as the projector ages than with a white material. Just to explain this more clearly, if red drops, and blue is high to start with (because of the screen bias), you are going to end up dropping the blue gain control a lot more to pull it into alignment. This means throwing away valuable lumens.

The second issue with grey screens is that they are limited in gain, and most of the screen manufacturers seem to exaggerate the gain capability. This means that grey materials are more suited to smaller screen sizes.

Nevertheless, these materials absolutely do have their place and in certain viewing set-ups are a great way of improving viewing in rooms with light walls/ceilings etc.
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post #4040 of 9895 Old 04-30-2013, 10:22 AM
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I'd bought my JVC RS20 projector before my home theater reno was finished. For a while it was kept in one of our bedrooms: a small room with fairly light beige walls. I'd occaisionally check it out with various material, projecting on the wall. In all but the darkest, low APL scenes (e.g. the darkest of soupdragon's screen shots above) the wash out effect on the picture was
pretty striking. It didn't come close to performing like the excellent, expensive projector that it was and I did have the impression of it being a waste to spend that much money on a projector if I were to put it in such a room. That's not to say that a poorer contrast projector wouldn't look even worse perhaps in the same conditions, but it still seemed silly to spend that much money for a high performing projector and waste so much potential.

That said, it's also amazing how great the image can look on the JVC with pretty modest changes to the room environment. My friend who owns my old RS20 has a small untreated room, though with medium blue walls and some white ceiling above, with a carpet on the floor. He uses a graywolf gray screen w. gain made to preserve contrast in such imperfect conditions and the picture he gets is actually fantastic. Certainly, it seems to me, it allows the JVC to strut it's stuff over his previous Panasonic projector, easily.

(FWIW when he was over at my place recently watching images on my Stewart ST-130 white screen/treated room, he couldn't help noticing the contrast/dynamics of the image and said "Wow the image is amazing. This keeps reminding me I really have to get around to making my room darker").
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post #4041 of 9895 Old 04-30-2013, 11:47 AM
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I'm interested in the first 2 projectors in this title (Benq W7000 and Sony HW50). Which AVS Forum approved vendors carry these products?

I've got $2500 from my insurance company to replace a projector that was water damaged, and can add a little extra to that.

Thx.
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post #4042 of 9895 Old 04-30-2013, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktoolsie View Post

I'm interested in the first 2 projectors in this title (Benq W7000 and Sony HW50). Which AVS Forum approved vendors carry these products?

I've got $2500 from my insurance company to replace a projector that was water damaged, and can add a little extra to that.

Thx.

Definitely call AV Science as they are the driving force behind this forum and offer great service and prices.

Mike
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post #4043 of 9895 Old 05-01-2013, 02:24 AM
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I am in search for a new projector.My main view will be movies in 2D,in a dedicated room with dark walls,black ceiling.My two contenders are Sony VPL-HW50ES and JVC X35.
My previous two projectors were JVC HD750 and Sony VPL-VW95ES.
My screen is Da-Lite JKP Affinity 1.1 gain and 110" diagonal.
Any feedback will be appreciated.
Thanks
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post #4044 of 9895 Old 05-01-2013, 04:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maximus74 View Post

I am in search for a new projector.My main view will be movies in 2D,in a dedicated room with dark walls,black ceiling.My two contenders are Sony VPL-HW50ES and JVC X35.
My previous two projectors were JVC HD750 and Sony VPL-VW95ES.
My screen is Da-Lite JKP Affinity 1.1 gain and 110" diagonal.
Any feedback will be appreciated.
Thanks

What do you hope to gain with the new projector?
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post #4045 of 9895 Old 05-01-2013, 04:19 AM
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Brighter picture,with very good black and contrast and i don't want to pay more than this price bracket.
Thanks
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post #4046 of 9895 Old 05-01-2013, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maximus74 View Post

I am in search for a new projector.My main view will be movies in 2D,in a dedicated room with dark walls,black ceiling.My two contenders are Sony VPL-HW50ES and JVC X35.
My previous two projectors were JVC HD750 and Sony VPL-VW95ES.
My screen is Da-Lite JKP Affinity 1.1 gain and 110" diagonal.
Any feedback will be appreciated.
Thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by n8dgr84 View Post

What do you hope to gain with the new projector?

Just for curiosity, what's not to like about the W95ES? It seems to fit the bill as a "state of the art" projector in this price range...
If you want a brighter image, then I would recommend trying a high gain screen, like a High Power.
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post #4047 of 9895 Old 05-01-2013, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humbland View Post


Just for curiosity, what's not to like about the W95ES? It seems to fit the bill as a "state of the art" projector in this price range...
If you want a brighter image, then I would recommend trying a high gain screen, like a High Power.

I agree, for his screen it is an excellent choice.

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post #4048 of 9895 Old 05-01-2013, 06:29 PM
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Just for others info looking at projectors. I have my new JVC RS4810 going & I'm shocked at how bright it looks, even on my 148" scope screen with a 1.5 gain. I was worried that it wouldn't be bright enough after much of the talk. I have it on the low lamp setting & the iris at half way from full open as it came. I just installed my blackout blinds & does the color pop & the contrast looks amazing. I'm so thrilled with this purchase so far & highly recommend it to anyone looking for a great 2D picture. I haven't tried out the 3D as I don't care much but I will as my wife likes it every so often.




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post #4049 of 9895 Old 05-02-2013, 04:56 PM
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Just wanted a short version of the pros & cons between the jvc x35, sony hw50 and jvc rs4810. Im going to read all 4,000 posts tonight...

I have a good viewing environment, but not perfect.
Is there a bigger gap of an upgrade between these 3 (which ones better and by how much).
I do want deep blacks & quality picture(Ive always used pioneer kuro...)
games arnt most important but dont want problems.
I dont care at all about 3d
the 4810 might cost too much for me, but want to know about these 3...

Also, other Q.
light leakage bad on any...
grey screen's, is 115 considered small. Wheres the cutoff per-say.
what would be a better gain & white or grey for a 115 size
max throw is approx 14ft.
I would rather get a better projector like these, and improve viewing conditions later...

Thanks, eh.

Forgot to ask do they all have the zoom memory saved settings.

JVC rs4810 (115)
Pioneer Kuro-9gen (50)
Oppo 103d
Marantz sr7001
Klipsch rb81/rc62/rs52
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post #4050 of 9895 Old 05-02-2013, 05:06 PM
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Sony = brighter, better 3D, less gaming lag, easier to calibrate, slightly better post-calibrated color
JVC = Natively Sharper, better blacks, worse 3D, more gaming lag, harder to calibrate
JVC RS-48 = Adds e-shift for a Pseudo-4k like scaling algorithm to add depth and sharpness to the image.

JVC = Usually preferred for 2d movie watching
Sony = Usually preferred for other content. (Sports, gaming, ambient light viewing, etc...)


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