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post #4051 of 8959 Old 05-02-2013, 04:16 PM
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New JVC's (2013) have incredible lamps compared to JVC's implemented models all the way back to RS1. Over 410 hours here and depending when I measure it sometimes it is right at the same initial center lux reading, even after a pro calibration at 100 hours. This means calibrations will typically last a lot longer before you think you need to pay for another one. Unless you are using the "trick" auto cal technology. Others are reporting theirs are holding up extremely well also.
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post #4052 of 8959 Old 05-02-2013, 05:12 PM
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The ps4 will upscale 480/720/1080 to 2160, but you need a 4ktv to see it at its best but still will look better even on a 2k-1080p tv. So, will the ps4 that upscale 480/720/1080 to 2160 hooked up to a 2k-1080p projector (jvc x35) look better or not because the 2k-1080p jvc x35 limits it to 1900x1080 pixels.

Just wondering if the ps4 is a better way to do the up-scaling, not the projector...

Does the sony hw50 upscale to 8m pixels like the jvc 4810/x55. The jvc x35 does not upscale to 8m pixels right. (perceived or not)

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post #4053 of 8959 Old 05-02-2013, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinson ------ View Post

The ps4 will upscale 480/720/1080 to 2160, but you need a 4ktv to see it at its best but still will look better even on a 2k-1080p tv. So, will the ps4 that upscale 480/720/1080 to 2160 hooked up to a 2k-1080p projector (jvc x35) look better or not because the 2k-1080p jvc x35 limits it to 1900x1080 pixels.

Just wondering if the ps4 is a better way to do the up-scaling, not the projector...

Does the sony hw50 upscale to 8m pixels like the jvc 4810/x55. The jvc x35 does not upscale to 8m pixels right. (perceived or not)

The JVC's don't upscale the image to 4k. The processing works differently. E-shift works by flashing 2 1080 frames on top of each other. The second one that is flashed is slightly shift by a small amount (I don't remember off the top of my head. Something like 1/2 pixel up and to the right or something like that) to achieve a faux 4k image. The flashing happens so quickly you perceive both frames as one single frame.

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post #4054 of 8959 Old 05-02-2013, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

The JVC's don't upscale the image to 4k. The processing works differently. E-shift works by flashing 2 1080 frames on top of each other. The second one that is flashed is slightly shift by a small amount (I don't remember off the top of my head. Something like 1/2 pixel up and to the right or something like that) to achieve a faux 4k image. The flashing happens so quickly you perceive both frames as one single frame.
E-Shift is to upscale 2K to 4K. That's really the selling point
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post #4055 of 8959 Old 05-02-2013, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

E-Shift is to upscale 2K to 4K. That's really the selling point

My point was that it doesn't scale an image in a traditional way. Yes you could call it that but in reality it's just two 1080p images in top of each other.

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post #4056 of 8959 Old 05-02-2013, 06:18 PM - Thread Starter
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here is the technical info.

eshift-howitworks.jpg

The technique eliminates aliasing and there is a perception of increased detail of the image due to the higher pixel density . it takes on an analog look, yet is still visually sharp from seating distance.


jvc-eshift1.jpg



close up photos of real content to get an idea of what's happening. None of the photos can capture how nice it looks on a large screen w/. close seating distance. This is no gimmick, it works and it looks great when it's turned on.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1399154/darbee-vision-darblet/1410#post_22270091 (more details, E-shift + Darby photos)

Eshift off:

darbee-12.jpg

E-shift on:

darbee-13.jpg

142: 16:9 / 14 feet seating distance. When you turn e-shift off, it feels like turning the resolution down a notch or 2.

darbee-16.jpg

JVC-RS55-11.jpg

skyfall_jvc.jpg

skyfall_jvc1.jpg

skyfall_jvc2.jpg
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post #4057 of 8959 Old 05-02-2013, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

My point was that it doesn't scale an image in a traditional way. Yes you could call it that but in reality it's just two 1080p images in top of each other.

That's not how it works, as I understand it. In fact, if it were literally only taking the same image and repeating it but shifted, it would be a less precise, blurred image.

Rather, it really does double the on-screen resolution (pixel count) but it does it sequentially. The upshot is you really do get those extra pixels both in terms of visible pixel size and density AND the scaler treats it has having double the available pixels, so it performs upscaling/anti-aliasing etc. Pretty much as it would if the panel was actually double the pixel count.
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post #4058 of 8959 Old 05-02-2013, 07:17 PM
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BTW, as I think I've mentioned I'm starting to think living with the JVC's E-shift has spoiled me somewhat. The image is so smooth and pure that I've become more sensitive to the grainy/pixel structure of other displays, especially flat screens. Watching the JVC is like an "Ahhhh" moment. smile.gif
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post #4059 of 8959 Old 05-02-2013, 07:20 PM
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On a 100" diagonal 16x9 screen would eshift make a difference from 12' away?

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post #4060 of 8959 Old 05-02-2013, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

That's not how it works, as I understand it. In fact, if it were literally only taking the same image and repeating it but shifted, it would be a less precise, blurred image.

Rather, it really does double the on-screen resolution (pixel count) but it does it sequentially. The upshot is you really do get those extra pixels both in terms of visible pixel size and density AND the scaler treats it has having double the available pixels, so it performs upscaling/anti-aliasing etc. Pretty much as it would if the panel was actually double the pixel count.

I didn't mean to sound like it was the same frame. Yes, there is a lot more to it than that. I just meant (again) that it isn't as simple as scaling an image in the traditional sense.

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post #4061 of 8959 Old 05-02-2013, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mankite View Post

On a 100" diagonal 16x9 screen would eshift make a difference from 12' away?
I had dual screens with the RS55. One was a 100in Screen Innovation 1.1 gain and the other a 120in HP screen. I sat around 10ft from the screens. The 100in I could not tell the difference with eshift and I had to open the iris up, which hurt the contrast. The 120in had more of a benefit plus, I close the iris to get better contrast. By far the HP screen was preferred. The contrast was great even without eshift, but I wouldn't buy one for a 100in from 12ft away for eshift.
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post #4062 of 8959 Old 05-02-2013, 07:37 PM
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So the sony doesnt do anything to upscale. Just improve pq/sharpness (with a little artifacts on the side)

Does the sony have zoom, lens with memory settings (like the jvc).

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post #4063 of 8959 Old 05-02-2013, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

I had dual screens with the RS55. One was a 100in Screen Innovation 1.1 gain and the other a 120in HP screen. I sat around 10ft from the screens. The 100in I could not tell the difference with eshift and I had to open the iris up, which hurt the contrast. The 120in had more of a benefit plus, I close the iris to get better contrast. By far the HP screen was preferred. The contrast was great even without eshift, but I wouldn't buy one for a 100in from 12ft away for eshift.

So if I get a jvc 4810/x55, 110 screen, 11ft seating, 14ft throw I would not benefit enough PQ wise(like I would if I had a 140 screen). It is then better to get the jvc x35 or sony 50 then (based on my screen size & viewing distance).

Whats better these two
sony 50
jvc x35

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post #4064 of 8959 Old 05-02-2013, 09:33 PM
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I have a 100" 16x9 ST130 G3 screen in a totally light controlled room. I sit 12' away and the projector sits 19' away. Should I get a new projector like the RS-46 or look for an older model like an RS-55?

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post #4065 of 8959 Old 05-02-2013, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinson ------ View Post

So if I get a jvc 4810/x55, 110 screen, 11ft seating, 14ft throw I would not benefit enough PQ wise(like I would if I had a 140 screen). It is then better to get the jvc x35 or sony 50 then (based on my screen size & viewing distance).

Whats better these two
sony 50
jvc x35

I do think that the eshift 2, which the rs48/x55 has, can benefit more than eshift 1 from last year. I had the rs48 this year and if I was to find a deal on it, I would choose it over the x35. Like most will say, the jvc will be the best with 2D movies and the Sony hw50 will be the all around if you going to watch 3D. You can find the rs48/x55 cheaper or around the same price as the Sony.
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post #4066 of 8959 Old 05-02-2013, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

I do think that the eshift 2, which the rs48/x55 has, can benefit more than eshift 1 from last year. I had the rs48 this year and if I was to find a deal on it, I would choose it over the x35. Like most will say, the jvc will be the best with 2D movies and the Sony hw50 will be the all around if you going to watch 3D. You can find the rs48/x55 cheaper or around the same price as the Sony.

Ive found these prices
jvc55 for 4200
sony 50es 3200
jvc x35 2700

I odnt care about 3d at all, but do want games/live events to work well. 2d is important too, so its tuff. What do you think.

Do you know if the sony has lens zoom & memory settings for that (jvc does on 55 & 35 I think).

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Oppo 103d
Marantz sr7001
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post #4067 of 8959 Old 05-02-2013, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Robinson ------ View Post

Ive found these prices
jvc55 for 4200
sony 50es 3200
jvc x35 2700

I odnt care about 3d at all, but do want games/live events to work well. 2d is important too, so its tuff. What do you think.

Do you know if the sony has lens zoom & memory settings for that (jvc does on 55 & 35 I think).
The Sony doesn't have lens memory. Either way, its a tough decision. I would go for a jvc because of the contrast and the brightest should not be a problem with that size screen and gain. Are you in the US?
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post #4068 of 8959 Old 05-03-2013, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

The Sony doesn't have lens memory. Either way, its a tough decision. I would go for a jvc because of the contrast and the brightest should not be a problem with that size screen and gain. Are you in the US?

Thanks, it is tuff. This is my first setup. Ive always used plasma, etc. USA.


The jvc has more things for me than the sony, but I want to use it for games, too. As long as its bright enough (I can improve the viewing evir/and its already pretty good).
Do you think that the sony would be any better in PQ with the RC on@20. The jvc must be really good if its comparable to the sony with the RC.

I just starting using bias lighting for the plasma & I like it. I saw the led lights on the SI screens, so I have led lights to bias lighting. Which would help the sony blacks. So, I wonder if that would be a better combo with the sony or just have the jvc even lower blacks (like I did with the Kuro).

Since the sony does not have memory lens zoom, is it completely manual or just no memory like car seats. I plan on zomming back & forth everytime I watch widescreen. Im getting a 2:40.1 How large of a screen do you need before you really need those curved ones (140).

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post #4069 of 8959 Old 05-03-2013, 02:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinson ------ View Post

So if I get a jvc 4810/x55, 110 screen, 11ft seating, 14ft throw I would not benefit enough PQ wise(like I would if I had a 140 screen). It is then better to get the jvc x35 or sony 50 then (based on my screen size & viewing distance).

Whats better these two
sony 50
jvc x35

In the UK, where houses are typically smaller than the US, many have smaller screen sizes. Of course we aspire to some of the screen sizes that some in the US report to having on here, and some have managed to get rooms big enough to accommodate it. I haven't managed this feat yet. So I have a relatively small room, with an 80" screen and I sit 9 feet away from it. With e-shift 1 I could still easily see the improvement when MPC level was set to 2 or 3. E-shift 2 has a lot more adjustment. The problem is for larger screen sizes it quickly looks digital and many have found the presets too aggressive and struggled to dial it in. For that reason there are a few who prefer e-shift 1. I think e-shift 2 may have been designed with the smaller screen in mind. Considering its fundamentally a Japanese invention, their houses are also typically very small, and I suspect the majority of Japanese customers also have smaller screen sizes. I actually like e-shift 2 because I can really dial it in and I have found that I can tune it to where it starts to look digital and then back it off. Jason had mentioned that he found the default film mode to be most like e-shift 1. I agree with this and leave it on its defaults most of the time. But I actually use the High Definition mode with satellite TV (and move the sliders down a bit).

A meld between e-shift 1 and e-shift 2 looks to be the optimum and I suspect that's what e-shift 3 will be!!
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post #4070 of 8959 Old 05-03-2013, 04:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinson ------ View Post


Since the sony does not have memory lens zoom, is it completely manual or just no memory like car seats. I plan on zomming back & forth everytime I watch widescreen. Im getting a 2:40.1 How large of a screen do you need before you really need those curved ones (140).

The Sony is completely manual. You adjust focus and zoom manually. You could only use a curved screen if you were using an anamorphic lens. If zooming you would just use a flat 2.40 screen.

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post #4071 of 8959 Old 05-03-2013, 06:08 AM
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The Sony is completely manual. You adjust focus and zoom manually. You could only use a curved screen if you were using an anamorphic lens. If zooming you would just use a flat 2.40 screen.

Mike
Thanks. When you say maually do you mean like binoculars or press button and hold until it moves big/small. That kind of sucks. Do a lot of projectors have digital zoom or are a lot manual. I really like the idea of memory settings, since I just save the 1500 on that extra lens (even though I would get it if more $).

UK#1

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Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

In the UK, where houses are typically smaller than the US, many have smaller screen sizes. Of course we aspire to some of the screen sizes that some in the US report to having on here, and some have managed to get rooms big enough to accommodate it. I haven't managed this feat yet. So I have a relatively small room, with an 80" screen and I sit 9 feet away from it. With e-shift 1 I could still easily see the improvement when MPC level was set to 2 or 3. E-shift 2 has a lot more adjustment. The problem is for larger screen sizes it quickly looks digital and many have found the presets too aggressive and struggled to dial it in. For that reason there are a few who prefer e-shift 1. I think e-shift 2 may have been designed with the smaller screen in mind. Considering its fundamentally a Japanese invention, their houses are also typically very small, and I suspect the majority of Japanese customers also have smaller screen sizes. I actually like e-shift 2 because I can really dial it in and I have found that I can tune it to where it starts to look digital and then back it off. Jason had mentioned that he found the default film mode to be most like e-shift 1. I agree with this and leave it on its defaults most of the time. But I actually use the High Definition mode with satellite TV (and move the sliders down a bit).

A meld between e-shift 1 and e-shift 2 looks to be the optimum and I suspect that's what e-shift 3 will be!!

Im looking at 103-115 screen. Just was asking (140) about screen size to know if/whats better for the shift2 quality wise. Yea, I read several people dont like it say shift1 better. I probally would if I can pay for it, Ive seen jvc 55 for 4200, sony 50 for 3200 & jvc 35 for 2700. I was asked about a jvc rs48 for 3200 that has 16hrs on light. I dont know more about it right now. It would be nice, I heard it works real good with darby.

Why do they have the jvc x55 & rs48 or 4810, what is the difference.

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post #4073 of 8959 Old 05-03-2013, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinson ------ View Post

Im looking at 103-115 screen. Just was asking (140) about screen size to know if/whats better for the shift2 quality wise. Yea, I read several people dont like it say shift1 better. I probally would if I can pay for it, Ive seen jvc 55 for 4200, sony 50 for 3200 & jvc 35 for 2700. I was asked about a jvc rs48 for 3200 that has 16hrs on light. I dont know more about it right now. It would be nice, I heard it works real good with darby.

Why do they have the jvc x55 & rs48 or 4810, what is the difference.

RS48 and X55 are identical except the RS version has a gold ring around the lens (purely cosmetic). The 4810 is a special version only in the US I believe that is meant to have additional quality control (hard to prove) and an extra year warranty.
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post #4074 of 8959 Old 05-03-2013, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinson ------ View Post

Thanks. When you say maually do you mean like binoculars or press button and hold until it moves big/small. That kind of sucks. Do a lot of projectors have digital zoom or are a lot manual. I really like the idea of memory settings, since I just save the 1500 on that extra lens (even though I would get it if more $).

UK#1

Yeah, manual like rotating the eyesight on binoculars. Some of the mid-priced are manual zoom and most of the lowered price are manual zoom. You just have to check the model you are interested in to know. Sounds like a JVC RS46 or RS48/4810 would be right for you.

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post #4075 of 8959 Old 05-03-2013, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinson ------ View Post

Im looking at 103-115 screen. Just was asking (140) about screen size to know if/whats better for the shift2 quality wise. Yea, I read several people dont like it say shift1 better. I probally would if I can pay for it, Ive seen jvc 55 for 4200, sony 50 for 3200 & jvc 35 for 2700. I was asked about a jvc rs48 for 3200 that has 16hrs on light. I dont know more about it right now. It would be nice, I heard it works real good with darby.

Why do they have the jvc x55 & rs48 or 4810, what is the difference.

I have a JVC RS4810 on a 148" 2.35:1 scope Da-lite Pearlescent 1.5 gain screen & the picture is amazing! I can't imagine how great it would look on a smaller screen around 100"-120". wink.gif

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post #4076 of 8959 Old 05-04-2013, 07:57 AM
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Is there a technical difference (beyond packaging and marketing) between the DLA-X35 and the DLA-RS46?

I see in this forum most people use the pro nomenclature rather than the procision.
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post #4077 of 8959 Old 05-04-2013, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cutter View Post

I have a JVC RS4810 on a 148" 2.35:1 scope Da-lite Pearlescent 1.5 gain screen & the picture is amazing! I can't imagine how great it would look on a smaller screen around 100"-120". wink.gif

Yea, weve always used pioneer kuro (which are wicked pq) so this is my first setup. Do you have any screenshots. I now am going to figure out what screen is better, etc. People have mentioned the dalite hd 1.1 pro, but Ive read a lot of people having a higher gain. Since you have that projector it would be good to see how the pearl 1.5 looks with no lights. The guys at avs are helping me with info, but I might get that same screen/close to it. It be neat to see what it looks like (I could care less about camera quality or how you take pic, etc.). What doews it look like white those white ceiling because mines white too. I have darknavy walls & blue curtains. Your looks similar to wait I have right now...

I want it to look good, Im all about quality.

JVC rs4810 (115)
Pioneer Kuro-9gen (50)
Oppo 103d
Marantz sr7001
Klipsch rb81/rc62/rs52
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post #4078 of 8959 Old 05-05-2013, 07:12 PM
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Hi guys, I am thinking of buying sony hw50es. Please suggest (maybe in PM) good places to buy and get it delivered in Maryland by Tuesday.
Any gotchas that I should be aware of? I was considering JVC X35 also but 3D performance seems bad.
Given this sony has IR glasses, do they go out of sync, or jam other remotes?

Screen size 108", distance ~12 ft for both PJ mounting and seating, ceiling mount, current projector panasonic 200u. Very good 3D performance is a must, tolerance for some ambient light. Room is but not brightly lit when watching, just that some light leaks into the living room from other rooms and staircase a little. But I have black out curtains etc to keep ambient light at a minimum.

Edit - sorry for the duplicate post in HW50ES owner's thread and here. I think different sets of people would be reading on different threads.
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post #4079 of 8959 Old 05-05-2013, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinson ------ View Post

Yea, weve always used pioneer kuro (which are wicked pq) so this is my first setup. Do you have any screenshots. I now am going to figure out what screen is better, etc. People have mentioned the dalite hd 1.1 pro, but Ive read a lot of people having a higher gain. Since you have that projector it would be good to see how the pearl 1.5 looks with no lights. The guys at avs are helping me with info, but I might get that same screen/close to it. It be neat to see what it looks like (I could care less about camera quality or how you take pic, etc.). What doews it look like white those white ceiling because mines white too. I have darknavy walls & blue curtains. Your looks similar to wait I have right now...

I want it to look good, Im all about quality.

I have a flat black screen wall & dark brown walls & ceiling right now. Here are a couple of pics I took with my cell phone. I'm so impressed with the picture quality on my screen & I haven't even dialed it in yet. wink.gif




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post #4080 of 8959 Old 05-06-2013, 11:07 AM
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how real/ bad is the LCD panel fading problem? Will projector's LCD panel fade in 500-1000 hours? Can these panels be easily/ cheaply replaced? If I am spending 3-4k on a projector, I expect it to last 4-5 years, or a good value for anyone who buys it from me when I upgrade.
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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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