Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 157 - AVS Forum
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post #4681 of 8764 Old 08-27-2013, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

that's why I waited until I found a good deal.... smile.gif

regarding the Epson, I can definitely see the iris on the 6020 I recently calibrated, even in the least aggressive setting. The recently released BD 'Oblivion' is a torture test for a DI. I ended up turning it off for this movie, but it still looks very good for an LCD projector.

yep when had my epson ran it without the DI. re new epsons I understand they are just a light refresh...unless someone has more info smile.gif

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post #4682 of 8764 Old 08-27-2013, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

that's why I waited until I found a good deal.... smile.gif

regarding the Epson, I can definitely see the iris on the 6020 I recently calibrated, even in the least aggressive setting. The recently released BD 'Oblivion' is a torture test for a DI. I ended up turning it off for this movie, but it still looks very good for an LCD projector.

I noticed the iris very often on the 6020/5020, occasionally on the PT-AE8000U/7000U, and I don't think I've ever seen it on the Sony HW30ES. Oblivion was the first movie I watched on the Sony, too.
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post #4683 of 8764 Old 08-27-2013, 05:54 PM
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Basically any current model from Sony, Runco, and Sim2 have "can be used 100% of the time" DI's. They are basically invisible and only seen on rare occasion. They complement the picture and actually let you enjoy the content as opposed to annoying you with visible artifacts. There aren't any other brands that have a consistent track record for "invisible" DI's. There are a few rarities out there from other companies that look good in terms of DI performance but won't be as good or consistent between models as those from the company's previously mentioned.
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post #4684 of 8764 Old 08-27-2013, 06:19 PM
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JVC has the best DI, because it doesn't have one...
You can see any DI if you play the right scene and try to see it, even on a Runco or Sony.


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post #4685 of 8764 Old 08-27-2013, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

Basically any current model from Sony, Runco, and Sim2 have "can be used 100% of the time" DI's. They are basically invisible and only seen on rare occasion. They complement the picture and actually let you enjoy the content as opposed to annoying you with visible artifacts. There aren't any other brands that have a consistent track record for "invisible" DI's. There are a few rarities out there from other companies that look good in terms of DI performance but won't be as good or consistent between models as those from the company's previously mentioned.

That's great to know! So pumped to get my 50ES !

Now I need a 3D disc player!
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post #4686 of 8764 Old 08-27-2013, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Someone posted earlier that we should expect the new Epson's in October. There is motion judder on my 6010, but (for me) 3D seems to help smooth it out a bit. I don't find it as bad as not having FI in 2D. FI on the Epson is quite good. Regardless, the 5030 is worth the wait for me.

Great. I'm itching to get a projector and now not sure if I should wait or not.
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post #4687 of 8764 Old 08-27-2013, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

JVC has the best DI, because it doesn't have one...
You can see any DI if you play the right scene and try to see it, even on a Runco or Sony.

Let's not do this. JVCs have their fair share of issues too (like any projector). People buy what they can afford and choose the projector in their price range based on the specs they find most important. If I wanted the best black level and low APL contrast I would have kept one of the four JVCs I've had but I find other things more important.
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post #4688 of 8764 Old 08-27-2013, 08:00 PM
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I like the Runco, I want one in addition to my JVC, just haven't found it at the correct price yet, well not ready to buy, I might still get one though eventually.
I agree the IRIS on those three projectors are surely fine.

I wasn't doing "this", or even "that". I was simply saying JVC has the best DI by not having one. Really wasn't degrading projectors that uses IRIS's, are we now so politically correct that we cannot even state the obvious. The obvious being, if you find a whacky enough scene (the orange / red strobing light in Tree of Life "Creation Segment" is one), then you can see them. That's all I was saying. I wish the JVC had a DI kind of, though not really.

The difference for us long-timers is that you eventually need the best of all, so you'll never be happy with just one projector.
1= Blah, 2 = Good, 3 = Covering AlMost ALL Bases


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post #4689 of 8764 Old 08-27-2013, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Loftboy View Post

Hi Guys, I've not been here for SO long. I've been very happy with my JVC HD100 for the last 5yrs - which is a long time as far as technology is concerned, and so I was wondering how much things have improved. I believe my PJ outputs around 600 lumens and the current equivalent model puts out double that for a similar power consumption (JVS RS55 - 1200 lumens?) I watch movies and music concerts plus a little golf. Would I see a night and day difference with the new models compared to my ageing HD100?
Could anyone tell me which models have superceded the HD100 over the years?

I know it's a very basic question but all the same......... anyone care to comment

PS I'm in the UK so model numbers for my region if possible please wink.gif
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post #4690 of 8764 Old 08-28-2013, 12:26 AM
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The JVC's have gotten sharper and brighter in best mode, depends how lucky you were with that HD100 on convergence. As far as black levels, you will see some difference, but not night and day. The motion has gotten slightly better.

Would the complete difference be night and day, maybe if you take all three things into account - brightness, convergence, and E-Shift 1 (Rs-55). Just like anything else, the difference will be felt more on some types of viewing over other types. Remember though that the JVC RS-55 isn't that good at 3D if you care, the newer JVC's are better in 3D.


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post #4691 of 8764 Old 08-28-2013, 12:42 AM
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Sorry for the double post, but I still feel 3D gets old after a while, I used 3D quite a bit on the Benq w7000, but the thing about it is the eye strain from the shuttering. To me 3D is kind of like one of those things you do now and then when you are in the mood. Most movies I still watch in 2D.

The single best 3D seen I've seen is still probably that fish in that underwater one (Imax Under the Sea), followed by some space scenes in some games. The best overall 3D experience was probably flying in photo-realistic scenery in flying games (Just Cause 2 has near photo-realistic at times, but FSX with a mod can do it too, but it's very hard to get it working right and it takes a fast connection to do it in order to download the satellite mapping photos to enhance the graphics by 100x). X3: Albion Prelude was the other one I played some in 3D (took a 3D mod to fix the hud). I'm not really a gamer anymore but those are the only games I could really stand in 3D (if you call 5-10 hours of gaming per month a gamer), even on the Benq. Too tiring, also tried Witcher 2 in 3D way too much eye strain even on the Benq...

Some animated things I guess are still preferable in 3D.


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post #4692 of 8764 Old 08-28-2013, 05:03 AM
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What's preventing me from playing more games on my projector (Mitsubishi HC5) is input lag. It's in the 40-70 ms ballpark and while not as much as JVC, or Epson, or BenQ, or Sharp, is still far from comfortable. It seems only two companies are concerned about input lag in their HT projectors - Sony (~30-40 ms on HW50) and Panasonic (I don't remember what input lag their latest models have). I wish there were at least a projector that is both good for 3D and for games - I'd jump at it if price was decent. And by good for games I mean under 20 ms input lag.
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post #4693 of 8764 Old 08-28-2013, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Elix View Post

What's preventing me from playing more games on my projector (Mitsubishi HC5) is input lag. It's in the 40-70 ms ballpark and while not as much as JVC, or Epson, or BenQ, or Sharp, is still far from comfortable. It seems only two companies are concerned about input lag in their HT projectors - Sony (~30-40 ms on HW50) and Panasonic (I don't remember what input lag their latest models have). I wish there were at least a projector that is both good for 3D and for games - I'd jump at it if price was decent. And by good for games I mean under 20 ms input lag.

Only ones I can think of are BenQ w1070 and Optoma HD20. Both have <20ms lag and very good 3d. Of course they suffer in other areas.

- Klipsch RF-82 ii, RC-62 ii, RS-52 ii
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post #4694 of 8764 Old 08-28-2013, 06:47 AM
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We have a shipment of HW50ES projectors on there way to us, arriving this Friday. smile.gif

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post #4695 of 8764 Old 08-28-2013, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by baloo_btru View Post

Only ones I can think of are BenQ w1070 and Optoma HD20. Both have <20ms lag and very good 3d. Of course they suffer in other areas.
Care to give me a link to the reference where these measurements were taken?
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post #4696 of 8764 Old 08-28-2013, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Elix View Post

Care to give me a link to the reference where these measurements were taken?

Sorry I meant Optoma HD25 (17ms). And the Benq has 24ms lag: http://www.projectorcentral.com/optoma_hd25_home_theater_projector_review.htm?page=Shootout-vs-BenQ-W1070

Both very bright and good for TV watching though poor black level performance and possibility of RBE of course.

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post #4697 of 8764 Old 08-28-2013, 12:22 PM
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May have just changed my mind on screen size. If i go with the 108" I'm kind of limited to the 6020 as the throw for like a future Sony will be real close and may not work unless my measurement and mounting skills are near perfect. If i go for a smaller screen, say 100" diagonal I have more leeway with throw and mount. I hate losing those 8 inches but it may be the wise thing to do. You know that if I do go smaller Sony will come out with a projector with a bit shorter throw and changing to 100" will be for not.

Decisions, decisions. Ugh!
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post #4698 of 8764 Old 08-28-2013, 12:35 PM
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May have just changed my mind on screen size. If i go with the 108" I'm kind of limited to the 6020 as the throw for like a future Sony will be real close and may not work unless my measurement and mounting skills are near perfect. If i go for a smaller screen, say 100" diagonal I have more leeway with throw and mount. I hate losing those 8 inches but it may be the wise thing to do. You know that if I do go smaller Sony will come out with a projector with a bit shorter throw and changing to 100" will be for not.

Decisions, decisions. Ugh!

You could also go with 106" or 104" and not give up as much. Just a thought.

Not sure about your situation but some companies will do totally custom sizes. So you could get the projector, mount it and everything, and then decide on the screen size.

- Klipsch RF-82 ii, RC-62 ii, RS-52 ii
- Klipsch RW-12D
- Sony HW50es
- Firehawk G3
- Denon 2113
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post #4699 of 8764 Old 08-28-2013, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post

It seems only two companies are concerned about input lag in their HT projectors - Sony (~30-40 ms on HW50) and Panasonic (I don't remember what input lag their latest models have). I wish there were at least a projector that is both good for 3D and for games - I'd jump at it if price was decent. And by good for games I mean under 20 ms input lag.

I would go with the Optoma hd25 or the newer and slightly cheaper Optoma hd131xe if wanting a second projector for gaming and 3D, it has RF so no contrast hit like DLP link. People are saying the hd-25 is better in 3D than the Benqs, but the Benq w1070 is likely a tad sharper and better in 2D and HTPC. Not sure what the lag is on the Optoma hd131xe though.


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post #4700 of 8764 Old 08-28-2013, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I would go with the Optoma hd25 or the newer and slightly cheaper Optoma hd131xe if wanting a second projector for gaming and 3D, it has RF so no contrast hit like DLP link. People are saying the hd-25 is better in 3D than the Benqs, but the Benq w1070 is likely a tad sharper and better in 2D and HTPC. Not sure what the lag is on the Optoma hd131xe though.

Hadn't heard about the hd131xe. It looks like an LED light source? Sounds very promising!

How does it compare to higher end projectors? What are it's weaknesses? I guess that is for another thread though.

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post #4701 of 8764 Old 08-28-2013, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by baloo_btru View Post

How does it compare to higher end projectors?

Like Grapefruit vs. oranges or sweet vs. sour... Not really valid comparison since on the more expensive projectors we buy them for black levels.
It is a UHP lamp, not LED.


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post #4702 of 8764 Old 08-28-2013, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Like Grapefruit vs. oranges or sweet vs. sour... Not really valid comparison since on the more expensive projectors we buy them for black levels.
It is a UHP lamp, not LED.

Yeah my excitement was shortlived. It says LED light source which will "last the life of the projector" on amazon but I was just about to come back here and post how that's not accurate.

Other than that, it seems to be another high quality, budget DLP projector. Thanks

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post #4703 of 8764 Old 08-28-2013, 02:58 PM
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Here's an OT follow up:


I found this company - Water White Glass.


I'm getting a 1/4" thick 8"x8" piece of their highly anti-reflective, 99% transparent glass for my projection chamber. It's well under $100 shipped and should be perfect for my needs. I'll be building an insulated "masking system" with sound insulation material that will further isolate projector noise from the main home theater.

Now back to more relevant projector discussions.

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post #4704 of 8764 Old 08-28-2013, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by baloo_btru View Post

You could also go with 106" or 104" and not give up as much. Just a thought.

Not sure about your situation but some companies will do totally custom sizes. So you could get the projector, mount it and everything, and then decide on the screen size.

I've got a message into the screen people asking them for a quote on 104". Their stock sizes are 108 and and then 100. 104 is the best size taking into account future projector upgrades. Hopefully the price is reasonable.
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post #4705 of 8764 Old 08-28-2013, 09:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

check out my new HT toy:

T-10.jpg

I've been waiting a while to get one of these. it's impressive how it registers a signal with such little light hitting the meter. This is replacing my 813 meter which was ok for general measurements at 100% IRE.

I'm looking forward to trying this out later.

I did a quick native contrast check on this Epson 6020, it looks like ~ 6000:1 with the iris off. The projector is located ~17 feet from the 142" 16:9.
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post #4706 of 8764 Old 08-28-2013, 09:58 PM
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What was the black level?
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post #4707 of 8764 Old 08-29-2013, 12:48 AM
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What was the black level?
What can you say about its power level?
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post #4708 of 8764 Old 08-29-2013, 12:58 AM
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What can you say about its power level?



In other news; I don't understand what you're asking.
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post #4709 of 8764 Old 08-29-2013, 01:49 AM
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I think you're absolutely right! I think it's a sign! Epson EH-TW9100
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post #4710 of 8764 Old 08-29-2013, 01:56 AM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

The JVC's have gotten sharper and brighter in best mode, depends how lucky you were with that HD100 on convergence. As far as black levels, you will see some difference, but not night and day. The motion has gotten slightly better.

Would the complete difference be night and day, maybe if you take all three things into account - brightness, convergence, and E-Shift 1 (Rs-55). Just like anything else, the difference will be felt more on some types of viewing over other types. Remember though that the JVC RS-55 isn't that good at 3D if you care, the newer JVC's are better in 3D.

Many Thanks Coderguy wink.gif Your comments and links have answered most of my questions. I've always been very pleased with my HD100s performance - especially on movies (BTW I'm not interested in the slightest in 3d). I do watch SkyHD golf coverage now and again and feel the picture could benefit from a little more "pop" and was wondering whether double the light output of the newer generation machines would offer this.
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