Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 169 - AVS Forum
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post #5041 of 9147 Old 11-07-2013, 11:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Tonight I had a second look at a different 5030, I didn't get a chance to check the THX mode on the previous 5030. The gamma is ~ 2.4 and a little too much for my preferences. The color gamut is also tweaked a bit but not bad. It's ok, but natural mode is better.

Here's some quick observations:

  • The ideal mode for best 'out of the box' experience is the natural mode, low lamp, factory gamma setting. Grayscale still needs to be corrected, but not as much as when shifting to high lamp. This definitely needs a separate calibration. I like the memory modes that can be labeled, it makes it easy to select the preset calibration for 2D High / Low, 3D High, etc.

  • Color gamut performance is excellent for this price point, this is the 2nd copy I am calibrating from a different batch than the first and color gamut performance is consistent between these copies. Saturation tracking is even better than the Planar 8130 which I was using recently for reference color checks.

  • Gamma tracks fairly well and it's a good thing because setting the gamma is not a fun exercise.

  • Last year, the HW50 was a top pick for very good out of the box color gamut and gamma settings. The 5030 easily matches and possible exceeds this year. It also responds well to a color calibration through the glasses. It needs correction, but it's well within the limits of the built in controls for great looking color in 3D.



Epson5030-8.jpg

Epson5030-10.jpg

This is impressive for a projector in this price range, saturation tracking and luminance are well behaved. Overall color looks great after a grayscale calibration.

Epson5030-11.jpg


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post #5042 of 9147 Old 11-07-2013, 11:37 PM
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even though have moved on from the epson 9000. good to hear epson has maintained excellent performance out of box with newer models. most I suspect won't bother with a full calibration. our of box whack it on eco and thx and off you go smile.gif

"Technology is a drug. We can't get enough of it."



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post #5043 of 9147 Old 11-08-2013, 09:59 AM - Thread Starter
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The only problem is that high lamp has dE's off the charts and definitely needs to be calibrated. It's very heavy on red and blue.

For this projector, I'm creating a memory setting for 2D Natural eco/normal, 3D Cinema and a calibration for Living Room mode (2D + normal lamp)

I wouldn't really recommend the THX mode, the gamma and color gamut aren't as good as the natural mode.


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post #5044 of 9147 Old 11-08-2013, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau View Post

even though have moved on from the epson 9000. good to hear epson has maintained excellent performance out of box with newer models. most I suspect won't bother with a full calibration. our of box whack it on eco and thx and off you go smile.gif

what projector do you have now?

Best regards..
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post #5045 of 9147 Old 11-08-2013, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The only problem is that high lamp has dE's off the charts and definitely needs to be calibrated. It's very heavy on red and blue.

For this projector, I'm creating a memory setting for 2D Natural eco/normal, 3D Cinema and a calibration for Living Room mode (2D + normal lamp)

I wouldn't really recommend the THX mode, the gamma and color gamut aren't as good as the natural mode.

eco lamp power and thx on mine measured really well out of box. intact to the point after calibration we went back to just out of box memory setting I setup and were surprised just how little difference there was post calibration.

if using normal lamp power that would definitely impact with a bit of red push from memory smile.gif

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post #5046 of 9147 Old 11-08-2013, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by john2910 View Post

what projector do you have now?

Best regards..

hi john have an jvc x35,

I posted some thoughts on in back here, comparing to the epson 9000w smile.gif
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/54020-jvc-long-weekend-with-some-comparisons-back-to-the-epson-9000w/

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post #5047 of 9147 Old 11-09-2013, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by alebonau View Post

hi john have an jvc x35,

I posted some thoughts on in back here, comparing to the epson 9000w smile.gif
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/54020-jvc-long-weekend-with-some-comparisons-back-to-the-epson-9000w/

nice comparison...smile.gif
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post #5048 of 9147 Old 11-09-2013, 07:25 AM
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I have a BenQ 10000 and been thinking about upgrade for a year.
This projector seems to be the first one to fit my criteria without breaking the bank. rolleyes.gif
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post #5049 of 9147 Old 11-09-2013, 04:21 PM - Thread Starter
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The Sony VW1000 arrived, who needs sleep anyway...

SonyVW1000.jpg

if the Death Star had a home theater, the Sony would be Vadar's # 1 pick (or Lord Helmet from Spaceballs..)

SonyVW1000-1.jpg

4K All Range Crisp Focus Lens

SonyVW1000-2.jpg

The Justice League 'Hall of Projectors' where each member still has their own unique powers. biggrin.gifcool.gif

SonyVW1000-4.jpg
Toe and bjorndadwarf like this.


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post #5050 of 9147 Old 11-09-2013, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The Sony VW1000 arrived, who needs sleep anyway...

SonyVW1000-4.jpg

Pshhh, I've had more in my room at the same time... tongue.gif

Looks like you're going to have some fun tonight!

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post #5051 of 9147 Old 11-09-2013, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The Sony VW1000 arrived, who needs sleep anyway...

SonyVW1000.jpg

if the Death Star had a home theater, the Sony would be Vadar's # 1 pick (or Lord Helmet from Spaceballs..)

SonyVW1000-1.jpg

4K All Range Crisp Focus Lens

SonyVW1000-2.jpg

The Justice League 'Hall of Projectors' where each member still has their own unique powers. biggrin.gifcool.gif

SonyVW1000-4.jpg

You are now officially spoiled. smile.gif

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post #5052 of 9147 Old 11-09-2013, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The Sony VW1000 arrived, who needs sleep anyway...

Sleep are for the weak biggrin.gif

Is that the first time you will see the Sony VW1000 in action?
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post #5053 of 9147 Old 11-09-2013, 06:15 PM
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Hey Jason, was just talking with Kevin and a few of his friends and we are on the way over to help you set that beast up since you don't have much experience. biggrin.gif

Have fun! That is awesome! cool.gif

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post #5054 of 9147 Old 11-09-2013, 06:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RickAVManiac View Post

Sleep are for the weak biggrin.gif

Is that the first time you will see the Sony VW1000 in action?

well technically it was last night for 8 straight hours, but yes... smile.gif

it's exactly what I was expecting, very bright on the HP even in low lamp, grayscale and gamma are near dead on out of the box, color gamut needs some help from the lumagen. Intrascene contrast is very good, I have to spend some time comparing it to the Planar and JVC.

upscaling is very good from 1080P content but RC is still a little too hot for my preferences. According to David @ HDTV Sony made a change with the VW500/600 to allow more RC tuning so I hope that makes it into the VW1100 upgrade motherboard.

I really want to see real 4K content on this projector, that is where it's really going to shine in comparison to all the other projectors I have here. I need to grab a new video card this week, likely the AMD R9 290 for my Shuttle HTPC. or maybe a 2nd for crossfire and decent framerate UHD gaming would be cool to see.


@ Todd - that is funny. I better straighten up, there are boxes and cables everywhere...


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post #5055 of 9147 Old 11-09-2013, 10:23 PM
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You think its time for a new thread?
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post #5056 of 9147 Old 11-09-2013, 11:04 PM
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Is the RC setting defeatable?

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post #5057 of 9147 Old 11-10-2013, 06:45 AM
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OMG! How heavy is that thing? My JVC is ceiling mounted and I had enough trouble getting it there. That Sony looks like it needs a power hoist for ceiling mounting, or at least several members from your local gym.
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post #5058 of 9147 Old 11-10-2013, 06:52 AM
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OMG! How heavy is that thing? My JVC is ceiling mounted and I had enough trouble getting it there. That Sony looks like it needs a power hoist for ceiling mounting, or at least several members from your local gym.

12 pounds heavier than a JVC. smile.gif

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post #5059 of 9147 Old 11-10-2013, 06:55 AM
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Oh my aching back! eek.gif
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post #5060 of 9147 Old 11-10-2013, 10:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

Is the RC setting defeatable?

it can be turned off but then you just get basic scaling which is a bit too soft on the 142". Based on David's review of the VW500 it sounds like Sony put in the option to allow for the optimized scaling but turn off the RC processing. I'm hoping this makes it's way into the updated VW1100 motherboard, we'll have to wait a bit to find out unless we can get the info from Sony ahead of time.

I'd like to experiment with using the HTPC for the scaling, i'm going to pick up a radeon R9 290 this week to add into my Shuttle HTPC. It has a core I7 with 32 GB ram and 256 GB OCZ SSD drive.

I grabbed some 4K clips including the one in this thread:

http://www.hd.club.tw/thread-112837-1-1.html


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post #5061 of 9147 Old 11-10-2013, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I'm hoping this makes it's way into the updated VW1100 motherboard, we'll have to wait a bit to find out unless we can get the info from Sony ahead of time.

Isn't the vw1100 release imminent. Any reason you didn't just wait for the vw1100?
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post #5062 of 9147 Old 11-10-2013, 11:00 AM
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I suspect a killer deal or a calibration job. He didn't say he bought it. biggrin.gif

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post #5063 of 9147 Old 11-10-2013, 11:17 AM - Thread Starter
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I suspect a killer deal or a calibration job. He didn't say he bought it. biggrin.gif

This one is mine... smile.gif

I'd like to find a service manual to see how buried the motherboard is, i'm hoping it can be removed from the bottom of the chassis during the upgrade so none of the internals are disturbed. Expect lots of close up photos of the 'operation'.


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post #5064 of 9147 Old 11-10-2013, 10:35 PM
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i'm going to pick up a radeon R9 290 this week to add into my Shuttle HTPC.
Why not GTX 780 Ti? Why go with AMD?
P.S. I just went from HD6970 to GTX 770 yesterday and got rid of a lot of bugs I was experiencing. I can also now boot MacOS 10.9 Mavericks on my PC. smile.gif
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post #5065 of 9147 Old 11-11-2013, 12:09 AM
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Can anyone help out with a suggestion for a long hdmi run. It will be around 75 feet because I want to run it to my pc which has a gtx 760 in it with a haswell i7.


Anyone have any experience with extenders?
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post #5066 of 9147 Old 11-11-2013, 12:11 AM - Thread Starter
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I spent some more time with the 5030 this evening. I found some interesting behavior with the memory settings. If you calibrate living room mode high lamp and also 3D cinema mode, you must load the memory setting for each respective setting even though the projector will switch modes automatically between 2D and 3D.

The issue is that you will still have the RGB corrections for the previous mode and grayscale will be way off.

For example - here's the modes I programmed:

2D low Natural
2D High Natural
2D High Living room
3D High Cinema

If you use the memory settings for each 2D mode, it will switch grayscale settings with no problem. if I go into 3D mode, the 5030 will select '3D Cinema' (which is correct) but it will have the wrong grayscale setting. You must still load the memory setting for 3D. now the grayscale will be correct.

Then if you flip back to a 2D mode, same thing, you must select the memory setting for correct grayscale. Not sure if this is 'as-designed' or a bug, but it's important to note if you program different memory modes.

I went back and watched some 3D after a calibration through the glasses. The 3D is very impressive on this projector, especially at this low price point. The image is rock solid, definitely better than the Sony HW50 and the JVC's. I don't expect this to change with the new models. For those sensitive to flicker, this is as close to DLP as it gets, even vs. the VW1000 which has about the same perceived flicker at the HW30 and HW50.


Journey to the Mysterious Island is an excellent 3D BD for checking color and sharpness in 3D. Left eye through the RF glasses.

The Rock is clearly impressed with the 5030's 3D performance. biggrin.gif

Epson5030-12.jpg


some quick center lumen measurements, 10 hours on the lamp.

The projector is 20 feet from the 142", farther than I usually keep them.


Low lamp Natural mode - (D65) - 519 lumens

High lamp natural mode - (D65) 698 lumens

High lamp Living room mode - (D65) - 1173 lumens

Gamma gets a little strange in Living room mode and needs adjusting a bit.





@ Elix - I just saw the 780 TI was released, that went to the short list quickly since I am not messing with aftermarket fans for the ATI.


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post #5067 of 9147 Old 11-11-2013, 01:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

This one is mine... smile.gif

I'd like to find a service manual to see how buried the motherboard is, i'm hoping it can be removed from the bottom of the chassis during the upgrade so none of the internals are disturbed. Expect lots of close up photos of the 'operation'.


Z10K

Congratulations with the 1000ES and welcome to the exclusive (but now poor biggrin.gif ) member club of 1,000 owners

Im looking forward to hear your opinion about it.


dj
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post #5068 of 9147 Old 11-11-2013, 01:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I spent some more time with the 5030 this evening. I found some interesting behavior with the memory settings. If you calibrate living room mode high lamp and also 3D cinema mode, you must load the memory setting for each respective setting even though the projector will switch modes automatically between 2D and 3D.

The issue is that you will still have the RGB corrections for the previous mode and grayscale will be way off.

For example - here's the modes I programmed:

2D low Natural
2D High Natural
2D High Living room
3D High Cinema

If you use the memory settings for each 2D mode, it will switch grayscale settings with no problem. if I go into 3D mode, the 5030 will select '3D Cinema' (which is correct) but it will have the wrong grayscale setting. You must still load the memory setting for 3D. now the grayscale will be correct.

Then if you flip back to a 2D mode, same thing, you must select the memory setting for correct grayscale. Not sure if this is 'as-designed' or a bug, but it's important to note if you program different memory modes.

I went back and watched some 3D after a calibration through the glasses. The 3D is very impressive on this projector, especially at this low price point. The image is rock solid, definitely better than the Sony HW50 and the JVC's. I don't expect this to change with the new models. For those sensitive to flicker, this is as close to DLP as it gets, even vs. the VW1000 which has about the same perceived flicker at the HW30 and HW50.
.



i dont understand this, here the 1000ES has a lot less flicker then the 30/50 ( to the point, that I normally dont see any flicker on it) ? what is different ? ( maybe because I use motionflow on low ? I will test without )

What software version do you have ( do you have the on/off toggle switch in the RC menu ? )

dj
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post #5069 of 9147 Old 11-11-2013, 02:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I spent some more time with the 5030 this evening. I found some interesting behavior with the memory settings. If you calibrate living room mode high lamp and also 3D cinema mode, you must load the memory setting for each respective setting even though the projector will switch modes automatically between 2D and 3D.

The issue is that you will still have the RGB corrections for the previous mode and grayscale will be way off.

For example - here's the modes I programmed:

2D low Natural
2D High Natural
2D High Living room
3D High Cinema

If you use the memory settings for each 2D mode, it will switch grayscale settings with no problem. if I go into 3D mode, the 5030 will select '3D Cinema' (which is correct) but it will have the wrong grayscale setting. You must still load the memory setting for 3D. now the grayscale will be correct.

Then if you flip back to a 2D mode, same thing, you must select the memory setting for correct grayscale. Not sure if this is 'as-designed' or a bug, but it's important to note if you program different memory modes.

I went back and watched some 3D after a calibration through the glasses. The 3D is very impressive on this projector, especially at this low price point. The image is rock solid, definitely better than the Sony HW50 and the JVC's. I don't expect this to change with the new models. For those sensitive to flicker, this is as close to DLP as it gets, even vs. the VW1000 which has about the same perceived flicker at the HW30 and HW50.


Journey to the Mysterious Island is an excellent 3D BD for checking color and sharpness in 3D. Left eye through the RF glasses.

The Rock is clearly impressed with the 5030's 3D performance. biggrin.gif

Epson5030-12.jpg


some quick center lumen measurements, 10 hours on the lamp.

The projector is 20 feet from the 142", farther than I usually keep them.


Low lamp Natural mode - (D65) - 519 lumens

High lamp natural mode - (D65) 698 lumens

High lamp Living room mode - (D65) - 1173 lumens

Gamma gets a little strange in Living room mode and needs adjusting a bit.





That looks like great 3d..smile.gif

Maybe i must sell my hw55 that i get today and buy this epson...rolleyes.gif
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post #5070 of 9147 Old 11-11-2013, 09:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by d.j. View Post

i dont understand this, here the 1000ES has a lot less flicker then the 30/50 ( to the point, that I normally dont see any flicker on it) ? what is different ? ( maybe because I use motionflow on low ? I will test without )

What software version do you have ( do you have the on/off toggle switch in the RC menu ? )

dj

dj, I think my HP screen makes it stand out more, I have the VW1000 at near level for max gain. Contrast in 3D definitely looks good on the Sony. I have to charge up my MV3D's, I find the factory Sony glasses a bit uncomfortable

Have you seen a 3D DLP recently? It's remarkable how solid the image is in 3D mode although the Epson 5030 also does an excellent job in this regard. Even with the VW1000 I can still sense the slight flicker in 3D.

I'll check the software version and post it later tonight.


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