Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 205 - AVS Forum
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post #6121 of 9087 Old 01-24-2014, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

I did the same thing. I had to get rid of my unity gain screen for the HP screen. If you can make it work, their isn't a better screen

That is what I hear, I have my PJ on a shelf just above eye level.

James Reid:D
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post #6122 of 9087 Old 01-24-2014, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

One thing you guys need to realize is how AMAZING the value is on the 4910. Your are getting the exact same optics, chips, wire grid polarizers, etc as the freaking 12500 model!! The only thing the higher end models are giving you are a second iris (which I think would only benefit those with extremely gain HP screens like Zombie) and I believe different colour filters such as adobe colour space which actually physically drop down in front of the light source. I don't think anyone even uses these filters anyway? Also, the highest end model gets "hand picked" parts which is really hard to tell how much of a difference that would make.

Usually JVC would save things like upgraded wire grid, etc for the step up models, but this year you are getting everything in the 4910 including eshift 3. Hope JVC keeps this practice for next years models;) biggrin.gif

I've put over 20 hours on the JVC in 2 days, and I haven't got goose bumps watching a projector for quite some time. Really wish DLP could get their native contrast up mad.gif Would have been the first in the world to get the 500es but couldn't do it financially and Shadow got that honor biggrin.gif I'll definitely be the first to get the next 4k model though.

Even when using the second iris on the top models with a HP screen, it may not still be bright enough. Open to mid zoom, they are extremely similar. With the extra savings, so many other components could be bought
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post #6123 of 9087 Old 01-24-2014, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

Even when using the second iris on the top models with a HP screen, it may not still be bright enough. Open to mid zoom, they are extremely similar. With the extra savings, so many other components could be bought

very little reason to go with a higher end JVC model this year......we need to keep this on the down low from now on.....don't want JVC to catch on for next years models. biggrin.gif
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post #6124 of 9087 Old 01-25-2014, 07:30 AM
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Good news

http://www.residentialsystems.com/news/0022/us-consumer-survey-shows-intentions-to-buy-projectors-for-home/85377

My humble Cinema
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post #6125 of 9087 Old 01-25-2014, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

I got my JVC RS4910...I've owned the Sony HW 50...

Thanks for posting your impressions. Out of curiosity, did you feel your 4910 is in the same ball park as the HW50 when it comes to out of the box color accuracy?
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post #6126 of 9087 Old 01-25-2014, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

Thanks for posting your impressions. Out of curiosity, did you feel your 4910 is in the same ball park as the HW50 when it comes to out of the box color accuracy?

I think the Sony has better out of the box colour. The JVC is really inaccurate in any of its modes, like cinema, or natural. The JVC looks much better in any of the user modes, but the Sony may be better overall. I don't have any equipment or anything yet to measure the JVC or the Sony I had, Just going by eye. Better ask someone like Zombie who has calibrated both.
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post #6127 of 9087 Old 01-25-2014, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

I think the Sony has better out of the box colour. The JVC is really inaccurate in any of its modes, like cinema, or natural. The JVC looks much better in any of the user modes, but the Sony may be better overall. I don't have any equipment or anything yet to measure the JVC or the Sony I had, Just going by eye. Better ask someone like Zombie who has calibrated both.

Thanks for your thoughts. I'm just looking for an idea of what to expect if I did decide to purchase the projector. The RS45 I had was definitely inaccurate as well but the JVCs do have great black levels.
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post #6128 of 9087 Old 01-25-2014, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by conan48 View Post

I think the Sony has better out of the box colour. The JVC is really inaccurate in any of its modes, like cinema, or natural. The JVC looks much better in any of the user modes, but the Sony may be better overall. I don't have any equipment or anything yet to measure the JVC or the Sony I had, Just going by eye. Better ask someone like Zombie who has calibrated both.
Hmm, I thought I saw a post where Kris Deering stated that this year's JVCs actually measure really well OOTB. I'm not sure how you can say the JVC is "inaccurate" if you "don't have any equipment or anything yet to measure" and are "just going by eye." You might prefer the Sony's OOTB settings, but that doesn't make them more accurate.

My "by eye" opinion is that this year's JVCs are really good with some minor OOTB tweaks -- and this is comparing to the RS4810 that I used to have that was calibrated. With a meter.
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post #6129 of 9087 Old 01-25-2014, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post

See, now you're making sense to me. Apologies for yesterday, I had a rough day at work.
Thanks. We all have days like that.
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post

I understand that white is relative, depending on what other colors are surrounding it. White can look like white (if it's surrounded by all white of the exact same shade and lit up by a D65 source), any shade of grey in between (depending on what colors are around it), or even black (if it's surrounded by all black with no light in the room). I think that's how I wanted that to come out, LOL! Correct me if I'm wrong...
I'm not sure I totally followed the part about "or even black". That same light level can look white or black. For instance, 12 ft-lamberts can look white in a theater, but a car only reflecting 12 ft-l outside during the day would generally be considered black. As I mentioned earlier, I measured the tires on my car that would be considered black and they measured about 50 ft-l on a somewhat cloudy day in the Seattle area. The glint off a piece of chrome on a car can be over 3000 ft-l.
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post

So having a non-optimal viewing env can trick you into seeing colors that you wouldn't normally perceive in an optimal viewing env.
That is true. The biggest problem that would be best related to this discussion would be having a constant light source that is bright within your vision while watching things. This is one of the things backlighting does to keep dark gray from looking gray and instead look black. It used to be used by quite a few people with flat panels with poor on/off CR, but with improving on/off CRs there I don't think it is needed as much anymore.
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post

It all boils down to personal preference. If you enjoy looking at an LED TV style image, get an HP screen. If you prefer something dimmer, go with a low gain screen.
I'm going to tell a story related to that.

Years ago there were comments about how the HP was a bad screen because it made the images too bright, including the blacks. Then Sharp released the 12k and I read a review that its higher contrast mode was unusable because it was too dim. The Sharp had 3 iris position choices and IIRC they provided about the following combination of approximate lumens and on/off CR in high lamp:

High Brightness: 800 lumens and 1200:1 on/off CR
Mixed: 400 lumens and 2400:1 on/off CR
High Contrast: 300 lumens and 4000:1 on/off CR

I posted that we learn in school that 1 times 12 is 12, but so are 2 times 6 and 3 times 4. In other words, there are multiple ways to get 12 ft-lamberts. Those who rejected the HP because it was too bright with the average projector and those who rejected the 12k because it was too dim with the average screen could miss out on about the best blacks we could get from digital projectors at the time.

I know it is somewhat counter-intuitive, but for many of us the HP isn't about getting brighter images, it is about getting better blacks (through higher on/off CR at about the same white level, which by definition is black absolute black). Sure it was nice to be able to go bright for those situations where I wanted to (maybe 10% of the time), but the main reason I got the brighter screen was for dimmer blacks.

There are still situations where this applies, but it can be a little complicated. Especially with dynamic irises. If a person can live with the auto iris on the JVC with the manual iris set to open they will get very big dynamic on/off CR, but that is also likely to bring out the most dynamic iris induced artifacts since the projector is forced to modulate the iris (and white and black level) across a big range. For some setups a HP can allow closing that iris further in the manual state and then enabling the auto iris. In that case hopefully getting less artifacts from the DI, but possibly less advantage too. In other setups the HP would be too bright with a middle iris position and closing it more means less advantage from the DI (although less artifacts).

It is rather complicated what is going to be best for any one situation, especially with people having different preferences for things like how bright they like their whites to be. With the HP one thing a person who has the projector a little overhead and behind could do is move the projector a little higher if they want the images a little bit dimmer at the same iris position. Then maybe move it lower when the buld has dimmed some.

--Darin

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post #6130 of 9087 Old 01-25-2014, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by jimmy12 View Post

Is this correct?
Pretty much. I'll add the caveat that screen gain is a little more complicated than the single numbers we tend to give. There are gain curves for where a person sits, but there are also curves for a person sitting in one spott. For instance, with a high gain angular-reflective screen like the Firehawk for one viewer the center of the screen could be 1.3 gain while the corners drop to maybe .7 gain. So, overall less light than the single 1.3 number would apply. A .7 gain screen could be flat gain or have a directional layer and just be .7 gain at the brightest spot, with dropoff in gain from there.

Also, you may already know this and been using a shortcut, but I'm going to get really anal about one thing as I've seen a lot of people get tripped up on it, sometimes things work out differently than might seem obvious at first, and this might help somebody in some situation.

If we lose 30% somewhere (like 1.0 gain to .7 gain) then we need to add over 40% to get back where we started. Basically 1/0.7 = 1.43, so a 43% higher lamp mode would get us back (assuming the same gain curve on both screens) .

It is depressing to think that if our 401k drops 50% in value then we need to gain 100% from there to get back where we started, but this is unfortunately how things are. I remember having to explain this to one of my high school teachers when we were talking about exchange rates between the US and Canada.

My brother was buying something where he got a 20% discount, but there was a 20% markup (or extra charge for something). The teller said those just wiped each other out, so he wouldn't put in either one. My brother asked him to go ahead and do that and the teller was shocked that the price went down. Basically, whether you add the 20% first and then subtract the 20%, or subtract 20% first and then add 20%, you end up at the same place, which is 4% lower. For instance, for a $100 starting price:

$100 *1.2 = $120. $120 * .8 = $96.
$100 *.8 = $80. $80 * 1.2 = $96.

--Darin
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post #6131 of 9087 Old 01-25-2014, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwa View Post

Hmm, I thought I saw a post where Kris Deering stated that this year's JVCs actually measure really well OOTB. I'm not sure how you can say the JVC is "inaccurate" if you "don't have any equipment or anything yet to measure" and are "just going by eye." You might prefer the Sony's OOTB settings, but that doesn't make them more accurate.

My "by eye" opinion is that this year's JVCs are really good with some minor OOTB tweaks -- and this is comparing to the RS4810 that I used to have that was calibrated. With a meter.

I used to calibrate and have an idea of what looks accurate. Someone like zombie who actually measures these would have a better idea. Did you not read this part "The JVC looks much better in any of the user modes" SO why is your by eye more valid then mine:rolleyes: I've also seen a many projectors calibrated, and yes with a meter. I was mainly referring to the crappy user presets which are OBVIOUSLY way off.
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post #6132 of 9087 Old 01-25-2014, 10:43 AM
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So reading about the HP and the rs57 being a good combo I am now looking the HP instead if the JKP 1.3 . The thing is that I'm ceiling mounting the rs57 and using electric screens. In reading I understand the HP wants the projector mid screen. I can't do a shelf because of the room lay out but don't mind if the pj hangs lower. Making sure my math is right, if I were to get a 120" diagonal screen I would go:

59/2 (image height) + black drop + case length top to bottom. = the length drop tube I would need

Would something like this still give me the benefit of the HP right?

Love sports, movies, and games. Slowly some day I'll add a projector and screen. Until then, I'll build up my library.
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post #6133 of 9087 Old 01-25-2014, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

Thanks. We all have days like that.
Quote:
I'm not sure I totally followed the part about "or even black". That same light level can look white or black. For instance, 12 ft-lamberts can look white in a theater, but a car only reflecting 12 ft-l outside during the day would generally be considered black. As I mentioned earlier, I measured the tires on my car that would be considered black and they measured about 50 ft-l on a somewhat cloudy day in the Seattle area. The glint off a piece of chrome on a car can be over 3000 ft-l.

I was just implying that if you had a black velvet cave with a ST100 on the wall and 0ftL light in the room (total darkness), the screen would probably appear black because there's no light to reflect off of it to make it appear on the wall. I've never tried this, but that's what I would expect. Correct me if I'm wrong...
Quote:
That is true. The biggest problem that would be best related to this discussion would be having a constant light source that is bright within your vision while watching things. This is one of the things backlighting does to keep dark gray from looking gray and instead look black. It used to be used by quite a few people with flat panels with poor on/off CR, but with improving on/off CRs there I don't think it is needed as much anymore.
I'm going to tell a story related to that.

So you're referring to a D65 bias light such as this Ideal-Lume?
Quote:
Years ago there were comments about how the HP was a bad screen because it made the images too bright, including the blacks. Then Sharp released the 12k and I read a review that its higher contrast mode was unusable because it was too dim. The Sharp had 3 iris position choices and IIRC they provided about the following combination of approximate lumens and on/off CR in high lamp:

High Brightness: 800 lumens and 1200:1 on/off CR
Mixed: 400 lumens and 2400:1 on/off CR
High Contrast: 300 lumens and 4000:1 on/off CR

I posted that we learn in school that 1 times 12 is 12, but so are 2 times 6 and 3 times 4. In other words, there are multiple ways to get 12 ft-lamberts. Those who rejected the HP because it was too bright with the average projector and those who rejected the 12k because it was too dim with the average screen could miss out on about the best blacks we could get from digital projectors at the time.

I know it is somewhat counter-intuitive, but for many of us the HP isn't about getting brighter images, it is about getting better blacks (through higher on/off CR at about the same white level, which by definition is black absolute black). Sure it was nice to be able to go bright for those situations where I wanted to (maybe 10% of the time), but the main reason I got the brighter screen was for dimmer blacks.

There are still situations where this applies, but it can be a little complicated. Especially with dynamic irises. If a person can live with the auto iris on the JVC with the manual iris set to open they will get very big dynamic on/off CR, but that is also likely to bring out the most dynamic iris induced artifacts since the projector is forced to modulate the iris (and white and black level) across a big range. For some setups a HP can allow closing that iris further in the manual state and then enabling the auto iris. In that case hopefully getting less artifacts from the DI, but possibly less advantage too. In other setups the HP would be too bright with a middle iris position and closing it more means less advantage from the DI (although less artifacts).

It is rather complicated what is going to be best for any one situation, especially with people having different preferences for things like how bright they like their whites to be. With the HP one thing a person who has the projector a little overhead and behind could do is move the projector a little higher if they want the images a little bit dimmer at the same iris position. Then maybe move it lower when the buld has dimmed some.

--Darin

Yeah, there are just so many variables that all have to be matched properly. This has been my biggest fear with going two-piece front projection. It's not easy to learn all of this stuff, lot's of information to digest. I'll just be glad when I can buy a 4K or 8K 120" OLED or something like Sony's CLED prototype and hang it on the wall. That will simplify things greatly for the most part...I hope, LOL! tongue.gif

Respectfully,
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post #6134 of 9087 Old 01-25-2014, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post


Also, you may already know this and been using a shortcut, but I'm going to get really anal about one thing as I've seen a lot of people get tripped up on it, sometimes things work out differently than might seem obvious at first, and this might help somebody in some situation.

If we lose 30% somewhere (like 1.0 gain to .7 gain) then we need to add over 40% to get back where we started. Basically 1/0.7 = 1.43, so a 43% higher lamp mode would get us back (assuming the same gain curve on both screens) .


--Darin

Fascinating. I almost bought the new Sony and tossed around the idea of replacing my current 126" wide ST-130 1.3 gain screen with the ST100 neutral gain screen, the ST100 being 30% "dimmer." Going by Cine4home's brightest calibrated images for the Sony vs the JVC, the Sony is roughly 1700 lumens calibrated, the JVC 980 tops. That works out to the Sony being roughly a 57% brighter image (if my iPhone did the math properly, gawd help me). So it sounds to me from what you wrote above, that theoretically
I'd still get a bit of a brighter image with the Sony/ST100 combo vs the JVC/ST130 combo. I'm still not sure what that would work out to in terms of how perceptible the left over higher brightness would be. It could be that in getting the lower gain
screen, it would mostly be about trading away the visible difference in the Sony's brightness for the smoother screen structure of the lower gain screen.

I've also wondered, given how much brighter the Sony is over my current JVC RS55, it would allow (when desired) dialing down the iris much more on the Sony vs the JVC, and I wondered how close this could get to equalising the native contrast
of the projectors, since the JVC's contrast ratio would be lowering when opening the iris, and the Sony would have a more closed iris for the same brightness, increasing it's contrast ratio.
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post #6135 of 9087 Old 01-25-2014, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post

I was just implying that if you had a black velvet cave with a ST100 on the wall and 0ftL light in the room (total darkness), the screen would probably appear black because there's no light to reflect off of it to make it appear on the wall. I've never tried this, but that's what I would expect. Correct me if I'm wrong...
If the projector is off you wouldn't be able to see the screen in that situation. Unfortunately, with the projector on and limited on/off CR the absolute black can actually look more gray in a room like that.

I have a living room setup with off white walls and a theater room that is mostly black velvet (including the floor and ceiling). The black room can make limited on/off CR seem worse in my experience. The black velvet is nice for making the image hang without visible things around it, but I think it is actually some of the brighter scenes that are helped the most by the black velvet. In mixed scenes the reduced reflections are good, but for blackouts the black room can make a projector weakness in the black floor area more obvious in my experience.

I had a projector with 400:1 on/off CR years ago (one of the JVCs back when this is what they had) and in my off-white walled room a totally black image would light up the screen, but it would also light up the room and the wall around the screen somewhat. So, at times it seemed like kind of an illusion where the room was at fault for the front of the room being lit up when it shouldn't have been. Kind of like there was another light source behind me besides the projector, even though there wasn't. In my mostly black velvet room it was very clear on blackouts that the projector was at fault for this bright gray 16:9 rectangle in front of me.
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post

So you're referring to a D65 bias light such as this Ideal-Lume?
Yes.
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post

Yeah, there are just so many variables that all have to be matched properly. This has been my biggest fear with going two-piece front projection. It's not easy to learn all of this stuff, lot's of information to digest.
I understand. I knew pretty much nothing when I found this place and learned a lot over time. Many of the people considered experts out there don't understand some of the stuff I would consider fairly basic. Being able to bounce things off people here and having people push back when things aren't right is pretty important to learning IMO and something this place provides. I think many of the experts don't end up getting that questioning part and end up believing things that seem logical, but aren't actually true.

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post #6136 of 9087 Old 01-25-2014, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
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regarding the discussion on out of the box settings, I didn't find any where the greyscale was correct on the RS57, it needed an immediate adjustment.

I ended up using the following settings:


picture mode - User 1

Color profile - Custom1 - > CM = 0n, magenta brightness -2

Color temp - Custom 1 / 6500 / Gain red -23, Gain green -22

Offset red -1, offset green -2

Gamma Custom 1 - 2.2, no other changes IRIS = OFF

RS57-greyscale-1.jpg

RS57-greyscale-2.jpg

RS57-gamma-1.jpg


Color Gamut - Also very nice OOTB

RS57-chromacity-1.jpg

RS57-chromacity-3.jpg

RS57-chromacity-4.jpg

Some of the advantages over the 55 is better default gamma settings, better color gamut + saturation tracking. Greyscale is always something you will just have to adjust for as the projector lamp ages.
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post #6137 of 9087 Old 01-25-2014, 12:18 PM
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Interesting. I've measured a X900 and 4910 and neither needed any adjustment to get under a dE of 3 for color, gamma or grayscale OOTB with the right presets used. I still have not received my X700 review unit, but I'll be sure to measure all the presets for it when it comes in.

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post #6138 of 9087 Old 01-25-2014, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
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thanks for the info, this was only 1 sample so it could have been an oddity on this particular copy.

I should have a 4910 here soon so i'm curious to see how it compares to the 57.


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post #6139 of 9087 Old 01-25-2014, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Zombie,

I know you recommended that bug video to me a long time ago, but I still haven't seen it. Don't know if my Oppo 93 could be made region free or not. Anybody here know?

I can't compete with Imax, but I've done some very limited work in macro 3D photography. I did this little video for Cyclopital3D, a Colorado company that makes accessories for 3D cameras. I got my camera within about a foot of some of these objects. They start to look other-worldly if seen clearly from that distance. (I can't recall if I posted this link before. If so, nevermind. smile.gif )

This is a different movie from the one I was telling you about. The original 'Bugs!' was filmed in 2003

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0337587/

The Micro Monsters 3D just came out and was filmed using brand new equipment. there is a whole documentary included on how they filmed these scenes, some of them unbelievable, the macro close up's are incredibly detailed.

definitely worth checking out.


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post #6140 of 9087 Old 01-25-2014, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

thanks for the info, this was only 1 sample so it could have been an oddity on this particular copy.

I should have a 4910 here soon so i'm curious to see how it compares to the 57.

I am also curious about the difference.

I was wondering if you have tried viewing your 57 with the Iris fully clamped and how your HP screens handles that?

James Reid:D
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post #6141 of 9087 Old 01-25-2014, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

If the projector is off you wouldn't be able to see the screen in that situation. Unfortunately, with the projector on and limited on/off CR the absolute black can actually look more gray in a room like that.

Do you think the new JVCs would be able to close the iris down enough in that situation, to look "close" to the blackness of the room?
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I have a living room setup with off white walls and a theater room that is mostly black velvet (including the floor and ceiling). The black room can make limited on/off CR seem worse in my experience. The black velvet is nice for making the image hang without visible things around it, but I think it is actually some of the brighter scenes that are helped the most by the black velvet. In mixed scenes the reduced reflections are good, but for blackouts the black room can make a projector weakness in the black floor area more obvious in my experience.

I currently have a Sony HW55, but I think I want to switch to the JVC X500.

My viewing env:
- 16' (L) x 12' (W) x 10' (H)
- Tan walls, except the screen wall, it will be flat non-reflective black paint (or hopefully Fidelio black velvet, WAF pending)
- Black tray ceiling w/ fiber-optic star ceiing (the tray starts at ~24" all the way around the room, the tray is black but the surround is white)
- Dark brown carpet (possible black rug, WAF pending)
- All black theater furniture (black cloth non reflective theater seating, black velvet on top of BDI Casata A/V cabinet)
- All black 5.1 speakers (Soundfield Audio L/R/C, Kef Q800ds Dipole Surrounds) and subwoofer (Rhythmik Audio FV15HP) (may all get wrapped in black velvet)
- Black tape already covers all the little LEDs on my equip as well (those are so distracting, but not anymore) biggrin.gif
- Two windows directly behind the seating with black blackout blinds and black curtains
- 2 x 16' motorized curtains w/ black velvet curtain material (1 for each 16' (L) side wall)
- **Still unsure - Screen (120" 16:9) Stewart StudioTek 130 G3, EluneVision Reference Studio 4K (1.0g) or PureBright 4K (2.4g) still waiting on samples of the EluneVision, but should be here next week
Quote:
I had a projector with 400:1 on/off CR years ago (one of the JVCs back when this is what they had) and in my off-white walled room a totally black image would light up the screen, but it would also light up the room and the wall around the screen somewhat. So, at times it seemed like kind of an illusion where the room was at fault for the front of the room being lit up when it shouldn't have been. Kind of like there was another light source behind me besides the projector, even though there wasn't. In my mostly black velvet room it was very clear on blackouts that the projector was at fault for this bright gray 16:9 rectangle in front of me.

A perfect example of how many variables come into play that affect overall PQ with two-piece front projection.
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Yes.

Ok, cool. Just wanted to be sure we were on the same page.
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I understand. I knew pretty much nothing when I found this place and learned a lot over time. Many of the people considered experts out there don't understand some of the stuff I would consider fairly basic. Being able to bounce things off people here and having people push back when things aren't right is pretty important to learning IMO and something this place provides. I think many of the experts don't end up getting that questioning part and end up believing things that seem logical, but aren't actually true.

--Darin

Definitely, this is the best A/V discussion forum I've found. There's so many knowledgeable guys on here, including yourself. When I first signed up, I was hesitant to ask questions because I felt like a total dumb @$$. So I just read and read and read and read and...you get the point. I tried to at least learn the terminology and get a handle on A/V before I actually started discussing with individuals. I think that helped me be able to as least ask a semi-educated question that could possibly spark a solid debate (such as the one we just had) where we all learn a thing or two. Then others can learn from our debates. I still don't know as much as I would like to, but hopefully over time I can absorb as much information as possible on here and be able to better help others make educated decisions in the future.

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post #6142 of 9087 Old 01-25-2014, 04:11 PM
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Mr. Hatcher, Don't be embarrassed about being pretty uneducated in HT as you started out; I was certainly in this category (in 2004, thinking about replacing my 19" Trinitron!). As you, as soon as I discovered this Forum I lurked and read many discussions before I ever had the courage to ask some naive questions. Folks here were enormously helpful and gentile in answering such questions and correcting my misunderstandings. A large dose of humility was also helpful.

Enjoy!
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post #6143 of 9087 Old 01-25-2014, 06:04 PM
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Thanks for the post details on the out of the box settings for the JVC's zombie10k. Much appreciated. smile.gif
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post #6144 of 9087 Old 01-25-2014, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

Mr. Hatcher, Don't be embarrassed about being pretty uneducated in HT as you started out; I was certainly in this category (in 2004, thinking about replacing my 19" Trinitron!). As you, as soon as I discovered this Forum I lurked and read many discussions before I ever had the courage to ask some naive questions. Folks here were enormously helpful and gentile in answering such questions and correcting my misunderstandings. A large dose of humility was also helpful.

Enjoy!

Thanks millerwill. 19" Trinitron eh? Now you're just bringing back fond memories...really. That was our first TV on the farm I grew up on. When our 30' antenna motor died, my folks used to make me go out an manually turn it slowly until we got a signal on one of the 4 channels we got back then. Little to the left...little to the right...stop right there! They would yell that out of the living room window to me, LOL! Good times! biggrin.gif

But yeah, I really enjoy it here and hope to learn as much as possible for as long as possible. Everyone is really awesome here from my experience. We may bicker and ramble, but at least we're willing to spend the time it takes to really learn this stuff. Rome wasn't built in a day. rolleyes.gif

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post #6145 of 9087 Old 01-26-2014, 04:28 AM
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Bill. How far away did you sit from the 19 incher?

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post #6146 of 9087 Old 01-26-2014, 06:16 AM
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But yeah, I really enjoy it here and hope to learn as much as possible for as long as possible. Everyone is really awesome here from my experience. We may bicker and ramble, but at least we're willing to spend the time it takes to really learn this stuff. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Yup, now you got it! This is a wonderful place to learn, so keep your ears and mind open and you will be just fine. Everyone here was a student at one time or another, and most of us (especially me smile.gif ) continue to be students regardless of how much we already know. The mark of a truly intelligent person is in the realization of how little he actually knows, accompanied with a thirst to know more each and every day. Take the person who you just spoke with, for example - Dr. William Miller, Professor of Chemistry and Quantum Mechanics (if my memory serves correctly) at University of California/ Berkeley. He is a highly intelligent person who has spent a good deal of his life educating thirsty young minds, yet here he is a student with the rest of us.

My 2 cents of unsolicited advice - spend a lot more time listening, reading, and learning - contribute when you can, but make sure you got it right before asserting yourself. I embarrassed myself more than a few times before I learned that hard lesson...tongue.gif

Edit: Oh, and one more thing - when Darin speaks I would recommend listening extra hard...wink.gif
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post #6147 of 9087 Old 01-26-2014, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

Yup, now you got it! This is a wonderful place to learn, so keep your ears and mind open and you will be just fine. Everyone here was a student at one time or another, and most of us (especially me smile.gif ) continue to be students regardless of how much we already know. The mark of a truly intelligent person is in the realization of how little he actually knows, accompanied with a thirst to know more each and every day. Take the person who you just spoke with, for example - Dr. William Miller, Professor of Chemistry and Quantum Mechanics (if my memory serves correctly) at University of California/ Berkeley. He is a highly intelligent person who has spent a good deal of his life educating thirsty young minds, yet here he is a student with the rest of us.

My 2 cents of unsolicited advice - spend a lot more time listening, reading, and learning - contribute when you can, but make sure you got it right before asserting yourself. I embarrassed myself more than a few times before I learned that hard lesson...tongue.gif

Edit: Oh, and one more thing - when Darin speaks I would recommend listening extra hard...wink.gif


Darin is a sharp guy. I am still thinking about his theory of shooting a smaller image (long throw) through a lens vs shorter throw shooting a larger image through the lens. Darin brought up that a defect in the lens (all lens have defects) would be hit by more pixels in the long throw situation, since the size of the pixels are smaller. Of course if the image is larger, then it should be hitting more defects in the lens. smile.gif

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post #6148 of 9087 Old 01-26-2014, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Bill. How far away did you sit from the 19 incher?

We all sat like 10' away, LOL! And it was the shiznit back then. biggrin.gif

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post #6149 of 9087 Old 01-26-2014, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Bill. How far away did you sit from the 19 incher?

Probably ~ 8-10 ft; not really much different from where I now sit from a 6x12 ft screen. Of course my eyes were better in those days, though not THAT much better.

Really enjoying the Australian Open. (How could I have ever watched this sort of thing on a 19" tv?)
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post #6150 of 9087 Old 01-26-2014, 09:05 AM
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Darin -- where have you been for the last while? I sure miss the good old days over on the CRT section when you gave those fanatics a really tough time -- Digital vs. CRT. What's kind of ironic is that most of them now own digital projectors (naturally I owned both at that time). biggrin.gif Never say never.
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