Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 247 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #7381 of 8998 Old 04-02-2014, 03:48 PM
Advanced Member
 
Mr. Hatcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 612
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post

I agree 100%, but when it is taken in the same room on the same screen with the same camera setup and so on they have some value. But this is as expected you guys will not accept we saw the Sony as the best projector in our setups.eek.gif

I believe that in both of your setups that you both see the same thing. If not, you have both been putting on quite a show. Hell, I haven't even seen the VW500/600 let alone the VW1000/1100 so I'm really only in this debate to learn and have some fun. wink.gif

Respectfully,
Mr. Hatcher
Mr. Hatcher is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #7382 of 8998 Old 04-02-2014, 03:48 PM
Advanced Member
 
Mr. Hatcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 612
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 71
If anyone wants to bring over their VW500/600/1000/1100 so we can compare it to my X700, I'm in Tallahassee, Florida. biggrin.gif

Respectfully,
Mr. Hatcher
Mr. Hatcher is offline  
post #7383 of 8998 Old 04-02-2014, 03:49 PM
Advanced Member
 
Andreas21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Norway
Posts: 824
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

What I don't understand is how two sets of people with the same projectors can see two totally different things?

+1

Ask Kris why he is always say THIS IS IN MY SETUP??

Regards
Andreas

My Homecinema

Andreas21 is offline  
post #7384 of 8998 Old 04-02-2014, 03:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
HoustonHoyaFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 3,963
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

What I don't understand is how two sets of people with the same projectors can see two totally different things?
Is it really two different things? Did even Kris and DarinP who were in the same room see and describe exactly the same thing?
HoustonHoyaFan is offline  
post #7385 of 8998 Old 04-02-2014, 03:52 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Schenectady, New York
Posts: 3,931
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 206 Post(s)
Liked: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonHoyaFan View Post

Is it really two different things? Did even Kris and DarinP who were in the same room see and describe exactly the same thing?

I asked Darin to give an explanation of what he saw that first night and he basically said his findings were the same as Kris's. That night they didn't see the same big difference others are seeing. Kris then enabled RC and saw better sharpness on the Sony but once the JVC had a Darbee it closed the gap again. So the two comparisons between them are still pretty different.

------------------------------------

Look What AVS Made Me Do!
Seegs108 is offline  
post #7386 of 8998 Old 04-02-2014, 03:53 PM
Advanced Member
 
Andreas21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Norway
Posts: 824
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

I don't find screen shot comparisons to be, in principle, useless. Carefully and mindfully done, they can convey certain relative differences between display A and display B.
I think close up screen shots of the resolution of display A vs display B can convey some of these real differences. Contrast differences are obviously very problematic because the typical
camera used for screen shots has insufficient range to capture the full contrast of a projected image like a JVC or Sony projector. So, expose properly for the mid-range or brightest areas, and
the blackest parts of the image will plunge below the exposure range and each will go equally "black," even if they are not equally black in real life.

But, you can still convey a sense of the relative difference in black levels, if you expose carefully both screen shots to reveal those differences (you just have to expose properly for the black levels only with a suitable screen shot).

This is what DJ Dee has tried to do to capture the pictures as close to what wee see in his HT and they are close, but of corse not 100%.

These picture clearly show why we found the Sony to be the best machine even if all you who find the JVC to be best don´t belive it. I don´t really care, I know what I saw and I know what I see not Seegs108 or Kris or anybody can tell me what I see.

Regards
Andreas

My Homecinema

Andreas21 is offline  
post #7387 of 8998 Old 04-02-2014, 03:56 PM
Advanced Member
 
Andreas21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Norway
Posts: 824
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

I asked Darin to give an explanation of what he saw that first night and he basically said his findings were the same as Kris's. That night they didn't see the same big difference others are seeing. Kris then enabled RC and saw better sharpness on the Sony but once the JVC had a Darbee it closed the gap again. So the two comparisons between them are still pretty different.

Put the Darbee on the Sony and the gap is the same again. I don´t know why you try to say this all the time. YOU CAN NOT test projectors side by side and use external prosessing on one and not the other.
d.j. likes this.

Regards
Andreas

My Homecinema

Andreas21 is offline  
post #7388 of 8998 Old 04-02-2014, 03:58 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Schenectady, New York
Posts: 3,931
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 206 Post(s)
Liked: 175
RC is basically "external processing" though.

------------------------------------

Look What AVS Made Me Do!
Seegs108 is offline  
post #7389 of 8998 Old 04-02-2014, 04:02 PM
Advanced Member
 
Andreas21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Norway
Posts: 824
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

RC is basically "external processing" though.

No, it is not. Then e-shift is exyrenal prosessing as well, and it is not, it is included in the projector and thus internal prosessing.

When I compare the JVC with the Sony I have something I found out and I think it explains something and this is brightness matches and calibrated. When you see a daylight scene on the Sony it looks like a sunny day and when you see the same on the JVC it looks like a cloudy day.

Regards
Andreas

My Homecinema

Andreas21 is offline  
post #7390 of 8998 Old 04-02-2014, 04:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
blee0120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Merillville, IN 46410
Posts: 3,572
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post

Put the Darbee on the Sony and the gap is the same again. I don´t know why you try to say this all the time. YOU CAN NOT test projectors side by side and use external prosessing on one and not the other.

If someone can add a $300 VP to the JVC and the sharpness and clarity gets you close to the Sony, why not add it? Plus, everyone has one anyways.
blee0120 is offline  
post #7391 of 8998 Old 04-02-2014, 04:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Schenectady, New York
Posts: 3,931
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 206 Post(s)
Liked: 175
I'm saying for the sake of comparing sharpness, you should look at native sharpness of the lens without additional "smart sharpeners" like RC or a darblet. This is what Kris did the first night and he didn't see a difference in sharpness between the two. Then he added RC and saw a difference. But does that truly make it sharper? Are we saying that we can't add a Darblet to the JVC to give it a feature that it lacks to make the comparison between the two fair again?

------------------------------------

Look What AVS Made Me Do!
Seegs108 is offline  
post #7392 of 8998 Old 04-02-2014, 04:06 PM
AVS Special Member
 
blee0120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Merillville, IN 46410
Posts: 3,572
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post

No, it is not. Then e-shift is exyrenal prosessing as well, and it is not, it is included in the projector and thus internal prosessing.

When I compare the JVC with the Sony I have something I found out and I think it explains something and this is brightness matches and calibrated. When you see a daylight scene on the Sony it looks like a sunny day and when you see the same on the JVC it looks like a cloudy day.

How does a sunny day look like a cloudy day? Sounds like a person that doesn't like the JVC
blee0120 is offline  
post #7393 of 8998 Old 04-02-2014, 04:08 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
darinp2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 21,165
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

I think what we're seeing is how the Di firmware operates differently. IIRC is was mentioned in this thread that the JVC will not go brighter than it's fixed iris setting (which is true for me) but that the Sony DI does not abide by that. If the Sony can go brighter then it's "fixed" iris then what good does static 100% brightness matching do?
I asked Andreas this and he said that they were brightness matched while the DI on the Sony was set to full.

I believe they saw what they saw with that stuff and so if they say the whites looked much whiter with the Sony with that bridge scene I would like to see it in person with a comparison and if I see the same thing then that will be interesting and if I don't then I would like to understand why. We tried a scene with less bright stuff than that that Andreas had recommended from Legends of the Guardians as looking better much better with a Sony (don't recall if that was just the VW1000) and to all of us the VW500 and JVC either looked about the same for dynamic there or the JVC looked better. I asked whether the JVC looked enough better to be able to tell after leaving the room and coming back and instead of doing that Steve closed his eyes before one image was put up, then closed them again before the next was put up. He picked the projectors correctly in just the couple we tried and I recall that his reason was that the JVC looked more dynamic.

So, if the VW500 looked more dynamic on that Legends of the Guardian stuff when they did their's and the JVC looked more dynamic for those same images at the comparison I went to, I am skeptical that we would have seen the same thing Andreas has said with that bridge scene. I would like to see it like I said and then try to understand why we saw such different things. I think there is a reasonable chance that with that single image and how much brighter the whites are with the Sony that if we didn't see the brighter whites on that image in a comparison it wouldn't just a personal preference thing explaining the brighter whites, but some kind of difference with the comparisons (like calibration settings, room, etc).

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
darinp2 is offline  
post #7394 of 8998 Old 04-02-2014, 04:10 PM
Advanced Member
 
Andreas21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Norway
Posts: 824
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

If someone can add a $300 VP to the JVC and the sharpness and clarity gets you close to the Sony, why not add it? Plus, everyone has one anyways.

Of corse everyone can do as they please, I use Darbee on my VW1000 from the Oppo 105D and it improoves the picture on my projector and I will never turn it off. What I am trying to say, if you side by side test projectors to see how they perform you need to only use the projector and if you want to add Darbee you need to do this on both. If the JVC had the Darbee internally and the Sony did not I would test the JVC with darbee on and the Sony without. But I find this to be rather silly now and find some people here to be rather silly and I think I might just leave this place and try to get some action on the Norwegian forum again because this is rather dead at the moment and one of the main reasons I spend qiute some time in here the last year. And in there actually some people belive what I am saying.

Regards
Andreas

My Homecinema

Andreas21 is offline  
post #7395 of 8998 Old 04-02-2014, 04:13 PM
Advanced Member
 
Andreas21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Norway
Posts: 824
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

I'm saying for the sake of comparing sharpness, you should look at native sharpness of the lens without additional "smart sharpeners" like RC or a darblet. This is what Kris did the first night and he didn't see a difference in sharpness between the two. Then he added RC and saw a difference. But does that truly make it shaper? Are we saying that we can't add a Darblet to the JVC to give it a feature that it lacks to make the comparison between the two fair again?

I have told you earlier that if you have any clue about upscaling this actually makes the picture look softer and it has nothing to do with lens quality. The RC of the Sony 4K machines helps with the upscaling and tries to make up some of the sharpness lost in this and also tries to make up for some og the things lost in the convertion from the master (2K or 4K) to BD.

Regards
Andreas

My Homecinema

Andreas21 is offline  
post #7396 of 8998 Old 04-02-2014, 04:14 PM
AVS Special Member
 
HoustonHoyaFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 3,963
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

I asked Darin to give an explanation of what he saw that first night and he basically said his findings were the same as Kris's. That night they didn't see the same big difference others are seeing. Kris then enabled RC and saw better sharpness on the Sony but once the JVC had a Darbee it closed the gap again. So the two comparisons between them are still pretty different.
I think you may be creating a simplified and polarized summary of Kris and DarinP's account.

Both of those guys clearly prefer the JVC 700 based on its contrast performance. DarinP has acknowledge that the main differences may be in setup and Kris has been very reasonable in pointing out where the VW600 has an advantage citing 'The International' and also commenting that other members who watch different content from him may well reach a different conclusion.

Not sure why Andreas21 and Dj Dee keep showing clips where they believe the VW600 is better. It will not change Kris and I assume DarinPs mind. They have already said contrast is their most important attribute, the JVC will always win that fight.
HoustonHoyaFan is offline  
post #7397 of 8998 Old 04-02-2014, 04:15 PM
Advanced Member
 
Andreas21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Norway
Posts: 824
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

I asked Andreas this and he said that they were brightness matched while the DI on the Sony was set to full.

I believe they saw what they saw with that stuff and so if they say the whites looked much whiter with the Sony with that bridge scene I would like to see it in person with a comparison and if I see the same thing then that will be interesting and if I don't then I would like to understand why. We tried a scene with less bright stuff than that that Andreas had recommended from Legends of the Guardians as looking better much better with a Sony (don't recall if that was just the VW1000) and to all of us the VW500 and JVC either looked about the same for dynamic there or the JVC looked better. I asked whether the JVC looked enough better to be able to tell after leaving the room and coming back and instead of doing that Steve closed his eyes before one image was put up, then closed them again before the next was put up. He picked the projectors correctly in just the couple we tried and I recall that his reason was that the JVC looked more dynamic.

So, if the VW500 looked more dynamic on that Legends of the Guardian stuff when they did their's and the JVC looked more dynamic for those same images at the comparison I went to, I am skeptical that we would have seen the same thing Andreas has said with that bridge scene. I would like to see it like I said and then try to understand why we saw such different things. I think there is a reasonable chance that with that single image and how much brighter the whites are with the Sony that if we didn't see the brighter whites on that image in a comparison it wouldn't just a personal preference thing explaining the brighter whites, but some kind of difference with the comparisons (like calibration settings, room, etc).

--Darin

The Rise Of The Guardian scene I only tried in the VW1000 vs the X500, never tried this when we had the VW500.

Regards
Andreas

My Homecinema

Andreas21 is offline  
post #7398 of 8998 Old 04-02-2014, 04:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Schenectady, New York
Posts: 3,931
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 206 Post(s)
Liked: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post

I have told you earlier that if you have any clue about upscaling this actually makes the picture look softer and it has nothing to do with lens quality. The RC of the Sony 4K machines helps with the upscaling and tries to make up some of the sharpness lost in this and also tries to make up for some og the things lost in the convertion from the master (2K or 4K) to BD.

So if we were to use e-shift could we then add a Darblet to make up for some of the lost sharpness after scaling?

------------------------------------

Look What AVS Made Me Do!
Seegs108 is offline  
post #7399 of 8998 Old 04-02-2014, 04:17 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
darinp2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 21,165
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post

When I compare the JVC with the Sony I have something I found out and I think it explains something and this is brightness matches and calibrated. When you see a daylight scene on the Sony it looks like a sunny day and when you see the same on the JVC it looks like a cloudy day.
This sounds more and more like they weren't really brightness matched. I'm not 100% sure, but these are some things that people can check.

Just to double check, when you brightness matched you are sure that the Sony iris was set to Full and you were using a full screen 100% image, right?

Thanks,
Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
darinp2 is offline  
post #7400 of 8998 Old 04-02-2014, 04:20 PM
Advanced Member
 
Andreas21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Norway
Posts: 824
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonHoyaFan View Post

I think you may be creating a simplified and polarized summary of Kris and DarinP's account.

Both of those guys clearly prefer the JVC 700 based on its contrast performance. DarinP has acknowledge that the main differences may be in setup and Kris has been very reasonable in pointing out where the VW600 has an advantage citing 'The International' and also commenting that other members who watch different content from him may well reach a different conclusion.

Not sure why Andreas21 and Dj Dee keep showing clips where they believe the VW600 is better. It will not change Kris and I assume DarinPs mind. They have already said contrast is their most important attribute, the JVC will always win that fight.

I think the only reason DJ Dee put up these is because it shows almost what we saw when testing, It is the middle of the night here i Norway so I can not ask him. And hes asked for Kris oppinion on these shots, I agree it is not the best way, but Norway is very far from the US and we can not just drive over to make the test toghether. And I have said it many times if this was a contrast "fight" the JVC would win every time, but a picture is more than only blacklevel and on/off and this is clearly shown when testing the Sony against the JVC.

Regards
Andreas

My Homecinema

Andreas21 is offline  
post #7401 of 8998 Old 04-02-2014, 04:22 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
darinp2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 21,165
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonHoyaFan View Post

Not sure why Andreas21 and Dj Dee keep showing clips where they believe the VW600 is better. It will not change Kris and I assume DarinPs mind. They have already said contrast is their most important attribute, the JVC will always win that fight.
My most important parameter is basically whatever is weakest compared to something else to my eyes (although of course I have things that stand out to me more than other things). That is a simplified version, but one parameter can get the most weighting while the projector that is best in it loses the fight. That is one reason we do the comparisons. We most definitely were looking at things like detail because they matter too.

I am really starting to wonder about this brightness matching thing. I would love to see some measurements of actual values coming off the screen for a daylight scene where Andreas sees the JVC image as looking like it is from a cloudy day compared to the Sony. Might help us get to the bottom of some of the differences seen. Or not.

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
darinp2 is offline  
post #7402 of 8998 Old 04-02-2014, 04:22 PM
Advanced Member
 
Andreas21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Norway
Posts: 824
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

This sounds more and more like they weren't really brightness matched. I'm not 100% sure, but these are some things that people can check.

Just to double check, when you brightness matched you are sure that the Sony iris was set to Full and you were using a full screen 100% image, right?

Thanks,
Darin

They vere brightness matched with both irises on on both with a 100IRE pattern found on the AVS testdisk.

Regards
Andreas

My Homecinema

Andreas21 is offline  
post #7403 of 8998 Old 04-02-2014, 04:23 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Kris Deering's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Pacific Northwet
Posts: 7,035
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 113 Post(s)
Liked: 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post

It is because the JVC showes it this way and this is one of the major differences between them; i have seen this and it is very close to what is shown on screen, but the differences in sharpness is even grater on a 110" screen.

This makes absolutely no sense. The JVC doesn't do any brightness compression with a scene like this (it actually boosts gamma to keep whites bright) whereas the Sony does exactly the opposite and would close the iris to get the blacks near the JVC at the expense of white. I see this with EVERY image I look at with this type of content. Yet you're saying the exact opposite is true. Color me skeptical.

Senior Video Editor
Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity

Click Here To See My Current Setup
Kris Deering is offline  
post #7404 of 8998 Old 04-02-2014, 04:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Geof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Eden NY
Posts: 6,007
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

This sounds more and more like they weren't really brightness matched.
That is the conclusion I draw from this.

Geof
Geof is offline  
post #7405 of 8998 Old 04-02-2014, 04:25 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
darinp2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 21,165
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post

They vere brightness matched with both irises on on both with a 100IRE pattern found on the AVS testdisk.
I know this double checking may be annoying, but to be clear, when you say "irises on" you mean Full for the Sony and not on in Limited, right?

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
darinp2 is offline  
post #7406 of 8998 Old 04-02-2014, 04:25 PM
Advanced Member
 
Andreas21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Norway
Posts: 824
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

My most important parameter is basically whatever is weakest compared to something else to my eyes (although of course I have things that stand out to me more than other things). That is a simplified version, but one parameter can get the most weighting while the projector that is best in it loses the fight. That is one reason we do the comparisons. We most definitely were looking at things like detail because they matter too.

I am really starting to wonder about this brightness matching thing. I would love to see some measurements of actual values coming off the screen for a daylight scene where Andreas sees the JVC image as looking like it is from a cloudy day compared to the Sony. Might help us get to the bottom of some of the differences seen. Or not.

--Darin

I think the main thing that makes this difference is that the Sony has a higher silmontanious contrast in many ways, I might be wrong, but this is my conclution.

Regards
Andreas

My Homecinema

Andreas21 is offline  
post #7407 of 8998 Old 04-02-2014, 04:26 PM
Advanced Member
 
Andreas21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Norway
Posts: 824
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

I know this double checking may be annoying, but to be clear, when you say "irises on" you mean Full for the Sony and not on in Limited, right?

--Darin

Auto Full on the Sony, Auto 2 and 0 for the JVC.

Regards
Andreas

My Homecinema

Andreas21 is offline  
post #7408 of 8998 Old 04-02-2014, 04:27 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
darinp2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 21,165
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

This makes absolutely no sense. The JVC doesn't do any brightness compression with a scene like this (it actually boosts gamma to keep whites bright) whereas the Sony does exactly the opposite and would close the iris to get the blacks near the JVC at the expense of white. I see this with EVERY image I look at with this type of content. Yet you're saying the exact opposite is true. Color me skeptical.
If you can get this bridge image I think it would be very interesting to actually measure the brightest and dimmest parts of the image with each projector.

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
darinp2 is offline  
post #7409 of 8998 Old 04-02-2014, 04:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Kris Deering's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Pacific Northwet
Posts: 7,035
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 113 Post(s)
Liked: 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post

You don´t know what I think, I saw it clearly in our setups just as Kris saw it clearly in his. I know you trust and don´t care what I and DJ Dee say, but these picture clearly show what we saw and we try to document what we saw and show it to you, but then you just start to question everything and try to turn everything around.

I trust Kris when he says the JVC looks better in his setup, but you gyus will never agree the Sony looked best in ours and I find that quite funny.

Not true at all. I completely agree with you that the Sony looked better in your setup, same with DJ Dee. I am not trying to sway your opinion at all and I'm happy you found the best projector for your viewing. I have more issue with DJ Dee telling me that I'm insane for saying what I found in my situation.

Senior Video Editor
Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity

Click Here To See My Current Setup
Kris Deering is offline  
post #7410 of 8998 Old 04-02-2014, 04:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
HoustonHoyaFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 3,963
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

I am really starting to wonder about this brightness matching thing. I would love to see some measurements of actual values coming off the screen for a daylight scene where Andreas sees the JVC image as looking like it is from a cloudy day compared to the Sony. Might help us get to the bottom of some of the differences seen. Or not.
How did you brightness match the projectors at Kris'?
HoustonHoyaFan is offline  
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

Tags
Benq W7000 Home Projection System , Jvc Dla Rs55 Bundle , Jvc Dla Rs45 Home Theater Projector 1080p Hdmi , Epson V11h502020 Powerlite Home Cinema 3020e 2d And 3d 1080p Wireless Home Theater Projector , Sony Vpl Hw50es 3d Projector , Epson 5010 Powerlite Home Cinema 3d Front Projector , Epson Powerlite Home Cinema 3010 2d And 3d Projector V11h421020 , Panasonic Ptae8000u Hd Projector , Mitsubishi Hc7900dw Home Theater 3d Projector , Mitsubishi Hc8000dbl Dlp 3d Home Theater Projector With Spare Lamp 1300 Ansi 12 6 Lbs , Darbeevision Darblet Hdmi Video Processor , Epson 5020ub Powerlite Home Cinema 3d Front Projector
Gear in this thread - V11h421020 by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off