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post #8371 of 9087 Old 05-05-2014, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

how bright is the 3D in comparison to the Mitsubishi and Sharp?

Depends on your screen size -- as you know I have several HP 2.8 gain screens. 3D is fine on my 120" screen but the Sharp (new lamp) is brighter on this screen, at least for now. The motion in 3D is similar to the Sharp's as is black level etc. The Mits has better motion (no blur at all) in 3D due to its very effective CFI system.

A big issue in my life is that I'm constantly called away (interrupted) from what I'm doing and this happens quite often during my personal time, and it's a real advantage to have a projector that I don't mind pausing for an hour or so while I deal with other issues. These interruptions drive me nuts when I'm using a lamp based projector -- really annoying. I'm a lot more relaxed now when I'm interrupted while the hybrid projector is on.
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post #8372 of 9087 Old 05-05-2014, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

Depends on your screen size -- as you know I have several HP 2.8 gain screens. 3D is fine on my 120" screen but the Sharp (new lamp) is brighter on this screen, at least for now. The motion in 3D is similar to the Sharp's as is black level etc. The Mits has better motion (no blur at all) in 3D due to its very effective CFI system.

A big issue in my life is that I'm constantly called away (interrupted) from what I'm doing and this happens quite often during my personal time, and it's a real advantage to have a projector that I don't mind pausing for an hour or so while I deal with other issues. These interruptions drive me nuts when I'm using a lamp based projector -- really annoying. I'm a lot more relaxed now when I'm interrupted while the hybrid projector is on.

I hear you on leaving the lamp on. I worry less about it with the Sharp Z30K. Lamp costs are extremely low. However, the hassle of replacing the lamp is still there. I do not look forward to getting out the 12 foot ladder and doing a high wire act. eek.gif
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post #8373 of 9087 Old 05-05-2014, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

Depends on your screen size -- as you know I have several HP 2.8 gain screens. 3D is fine on my 120" screen but the Sharp (new lamp) is brighter on this screen, at least for now. The motion in 3D is similar to the Sharp's as is black level etc. The Mits has better motion (no blur at all) in 3D due to its very effective CFI system.

A big issue in my life is that I'm constantly called away (interrupted) from what I'm doing and this happens quite often during my personal time, and it's a real advantage to have a projector that I don't mind pausing for an hour or so while I deal with other issues. These interruptions drive me nuts when I'm using a lamp based projector -- really annoying. I'm a lot more relaxed now when I'm interrupted while the hybrid projector is on.

I had to pause my jvc for 5min yesterday. It was kind of annoying.
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post #8374 of 9087 Old 05-05-2014, 04:12 PM
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I had to pause my jvc for 5min yesterday. It was kind of annoying.

I do that 4 times during an average movie with my Lumis - so my wife can go pee ! eek.gif

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post #8375 of 9087 Old 05-05-2014, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

I had to pause my jvc for 5min yesterday. It was kind of annoying.

Yes, having to put the projector on pause awhile you get yet another beer is annoying. biggrin.gif
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post #8376 of 9087 Old 05-05-2014, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

I do that 4 times during an average movie with my Lumis - so my wife can go pee ! eek.gif

Going to have to get her a potty training seat. biggrin.gif

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post #8377 of 9087 Old 05-05-2014, 07:49 PM
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I just ate dinner. Just left the game on for 20min. But it was my LED projector. So, all was good in the HT
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post #8378 of 9087 Old 05-05-2014, 08:36 PM
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How does one pause a projector?...I normally pause the BluRay player! smile.gif

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post #8379 of 9087 Old 05-05-2014, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post

How does one pause a projector?...I normally pause the BluRay player! smile.gif

I walk past it naked. That gives anything and everything pause. biggrin.gif
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post #8380 of 9087 Old 05-05-2014, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by cal87 View Post

Some ultra short throw projector system, forgot which one. Sony?
Bingo! It's 4K, it's 2000 lumens and it's laser-based, and it can be yours for only $30,000-$40,000. biggrin.gif
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post #8381 of 9087 Old 05-05-2014, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Elix View Post


Bingo! It's 4K, it's 2000 lumens and it's laser-based, and it can be yours for only $30,000-$40,000. biggrin.gif

 

Will that one actually do 0 lumens at 0 IRE? If so, that's a steal.

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post #8382 of 9087 Old 05-06-2014, 01:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

I walk past it naked. That gives anything and everything pause. biggrin.gif

biggrin.gif

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post #8383 of 9087 Old 05-06-2014, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

Depends on your screen size -- as you know I have several HP 2.8 gain screens. 3D is fine on my 120" screen but the Sharp (new lamp) is brighter on this screen, at least for now.

I need a 2.8 gain screen, if you think of selling one, please contact me first.



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post #8384 of 9087 Old 05-06-2014, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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multiple 2.8 HP's.. that is hardcore... biggrin.gif

I want another, add me to the list.


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post #8385 of 9087 Old 05-10-2014, 05:45 AM
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Hello friends Can you please tell me is 500-600 es a big step from HW50ES? (for 1080p content, not 4k)

*Sorry for my English
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post #8386 of 9087 Old 05-10-2014, 09:21 AM
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Any one that is intrested in optoma rf glasses someone on ebay is selling vip version for 20 dollars
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post #8387 of 9087 Old 05-11-2014, 01:16 PM
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...One advantage of controlled directivity is fewer first reflections that you have to worry about taming.

The toe-in also increases spaciousness by giving late reflections off of the opposite wall.

Noah
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post #8388 of 9087 Old 05-11-2014, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by cemo62 View Post

Hello friends Can you please tell me is 500-600 es a big step from HW50ES? (for 1080p content, not 4k)

*Sorry for my English

You will see differences clearly, and it's a better machine.
So yes.
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post #8389 of 9087 Old 05-11-2014, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dj Dee View Post

You will see differences clearly, and it's a better machine.
So yes.

better PQ but not necessarily better contrast/black floor. the native isn't much higher, less than folks might expect for a projector in that price range.

last night I had some guests over that are music fans. On the budget priced X35 (-8 on the iris), we watched a number of clips from the following concerts:

Shakira Live in Paris BD

Sade: Bring Me Home - Live 2011

Peter Gabriel Live in Athens

The Cure Trilogy / Live in Berlin

Crossroads Guitar Festival 2010

Dj Tiesto Elements of Life


They all looked amazing. This is tough content since an iris can only do so much on these scenes. This is where native contrast rules and really stands out vs. the competition.

No matter what other projectors I own (including the VW1100), there will always be at least 1 JVC in the mix, specifically for my music concerts and sci-fi movies.


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post #8390 of 9087 Old 05-11-2014, 04:19 PM
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A couple nights ago I watched The Third Man Blu Ray at a friend's house, on his 50" Panasonic plasma. It looked quite nice, and I love that movie. However I definitely noticed the decreased sense of immersion and connection in the viewing experience, even though its a nice plasma, we were seated fairly close and had the lights off.

I put that blu ray on my system afterword and
it was a real difference (to no one"s surprise here). There was much more immersion in the movie, picture quality seemed better - amazing contrast! - and the sense of depth into the image was soooo much better.
That's one thing I'm so used to from owning a projector, especially a good one - that sense of walk-in-to-the-image depth which makes flat panel images seem so flat by comparison.
Then there are all those details in the image that are easier to see and notice on the big screen image.

Boy I'm still glad I went projection over flat screen for my media room!
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post #8391 of 9087 Old 05-11-2014, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

A couple nights ago I watched The Third Man Blu Ray at a friend's house, on his 50" Panasonic plasma. It looked quite nice, and I love that movie. However I definitely noticed the decreased sense of immersion and connection in the viewing experience, even though its a nice plasma, we were seated fairly close and had the lights off.

I put that blu ray on my system afterword and
it was a real difference (to no one"s surprise here). There was much more immersion in the movie, picture quality seemed better - amazing contrast! - and the sense of depth into the image was soooo much better.
That's one thing I'm so used to from owning a projector, especially a good one - that sense of walk-in-to-the-image depth which makes flat panel images seem so flat by comparison.
Then there are all those details in the image that are easier to see and notice on the big screen image.

Boy I'm still glad I went projection over flat screen for my media room!

So true, Rich! And I also love that movie and watch it often.
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post #8392 of 9087 Old 05-11-2014, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

So true, Rich! And I also love that movie and watch it often.

Talk about a film that is hitting every cinematic height! Acting, directing, script, cinematography, music - it reaches the heights in every aspect of film-making. No wonder it was (I believe) Roger Ebert's favorite movie, the one
he felt most represented all that was great about cinema.

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post #8393 of 9087 Old 05-11-2014, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Talk about a film that is hitting every cinematic height! Acting, directing, script, cinematography, music - it reaches the heights in every aspect of film-making. No wonder it was (I believe) Roger Ebert's favorite movie, the one
he felt most represented all that was great about cinema.

And some of the other oldies I enjoy are 'Dial M for Murder', 'Rear Window', 'The List of Adrian Messenger', and even 'The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence' and 'The Enemy Below'.
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post #8394 of 9087 Old 05-11-2014, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

better PQ but not necessarily better contrast/black floor. the native isn't much higher, less than folks might expect for a projector in that price range.

last night I had some guests over that are music fans. On the budget priced X35 (-8 on the iris), we watched a number of clips from the following concerts:

Shakira Live in Paris BD

Sade: Bring Me Home - Live 2011

Peter Gabriel Live in Athens

The Cure Trilogy / Live in Berlin

Crossroads Guitar Festival 2010

Dj Tiesto Elements of Life


They all looked amazing. This is tough content since an iris can only do so much on these scenes. This is where native contrast rules and really stands out vs. the competition.

No matter what other projectors I own (including the VW1100), there will always be at least 1 JVC in the mix, specifically for my music concerts and sci-fi movies.


That's true, but better clearness, better sharpness, no visible pixels, have a much better iris than the HW50 55. and much more. Native about the same correct.
And you are right about concerts, horror movies and dark dark material. I also use my JVC x500 on that material . But if you look closer and take a side by side its only the darkest darkest parts that looks much better on the JVC . That's why I got vw1000 and the JVCx500
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post #8395 of 9087 Old 05-12-2014, 01:31 PM
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I did some sharpness "tests" out of fun. Just to prove my point I made in an Optoma GT760 thread that a 720p projector is better for 720p native content (most PS3 games, for example) than a 1080p projector. It is better to view these images in separate tabs.

In the first set of images I'm comparing an Optoma GT760 ultra-short throw 720p DLP projector to a high-end Planar PD8150 1080p projector.

Optoma GT760 on a 720p image close-up: http://imgur.com/nPrJj5i
Except for some minor chromatic aberrations, a very sharp image!

Now, Planar PD8150 on a 720p image close-up: http://imgur.com/mT70KjL
You can obviously see interpolation effects here. Disregard chromatic aberrations... It is so much more pronounced on photos. Must be the camera lens is adding some of its own. And I took the photo off-center where CA performance is less stellar.

Funny how I have to defend a 7000$ PJ vs. a 600$ PJ, huh? biggrin.gif
And for the sake of justice I'll feed both projectors the same picture with 1080p signal.

Optoma GT760 on a 1080p image close-up: http://imgur.com/e3zHZAO

Planar PD8150 on a 1080p image close-up: http://imgur.com/qWL2RGw
You can still see aberrations on the picture while the eye barely sees them from a distance of a reached-out hand.

Planar PD8150 is the sharpest 1080p projector I've seen.
Here's a full resolution image of the test pattern on PD8150: http://imgur.com/36hr3bL
and on Mitsubishi HC5: http://imgur.com/oxgrngD
(Beware, 12 Mb each)

And still for native 720p a 720p projector will be sharper.
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post #8396 of 9087 Old 05-12-2014, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post

I did some sharpness "tests" out of fun. Just to prove my point I made in an Optoma GT760 thread that a 720p projector is better for 720p native content (most PS3 games, for example) than a 1080p projector. It is better to view these images in separate tabs.

In the first set of images I'm comparing an Optoma GT760 ultra-short throw 720p DLP projector to a high-end Planar PD8150 1080p projector.

Optoma GT760 on a 720p image close-up: http://imgur.com/nPrJj5i
Except for some minor chromatic aberrations, a very sharp image!

Now, Planar PD8150 on a 720p image close-up: http://imgur.com/mT70KjL
You can obviously see interpolation effects here. Disregard chromatic aberrations... It is so much more pronounced on photos. Must be the camera lens is adding some of its own. And I took the photo off-center where CA performance is less stellar.

That's not a valid test, the text you used is not band limited, so it cannot be scaled to any other resolution without artifacts. Your pictures prove that, but you cannot use those results to extrapolate what would happen with "real world" content like games (which are oversampled/anti-aliased) or video/movies (captured with a camera). You would need to use something like a captured resolution pattern or some content with lots of detail to do this test.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do,
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post #8397 of 9087 Old 05-12-2014, 07:08 PM
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Here's a classic article to show off sharpness between a typical .65" DMD projector regarding sharpness and the PD8150 which uses the larger .95" DMD:

http://www.videovantage.com/?p=11

And another one talking about the sharpest 1080p projector, the Samsung SP-A900B:

http://www.videovantage.com/?p=819
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post #8398 of 9087 Old 05-12-2014, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

That's not a valid test, the text you used is not band limited
I'm not sure what you mean.
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

You would need to use something like a captured resolution pattern
I'm not sure what you mean here either.

Another guy did a nice observation:
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTOLfreak View Post

1920/1280=1,5 and 1080/720=1,5

In other words if you scale a 720P image into 1080P you are overlaying every 2 pixels of the original onto 3 pixels of the upscaled image. Both in the vertical and horizontal direction. A bad scaler will simply create a 50/50 blend for the middle pixel, a good one will use a more clever algorithm. (Like looking at previous and future frames to detect motion, edge detection to keep sharp edges scharp, etc) The other way around, to scale 1080P into 720P, you are trying to cram 3 pixels into 2 pixels and you have the same problem. Either way, you will get picture degradation.
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post #8399 of 9087 Old 05-13-2014, 05:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post

I'm not sure what you mean.

Re "band limited": For resampling (scaling) to work, the assumption, the requirement is that the signal be band limited to 1/2 the resolution, that means the signal (image) must have no information above a frequency of half the sampling frequency. The text you used in your comparison is essentially a square wave. Square waves have infinite bandwidth, but you could say they have "significant" information out to about 9 times the fundamental frequency. That means that, to capture (sample) and reproduce something like the text on a 1080p computer screen/projector, you would need a resolution of of almost 10,000 lines.

The only way to get a signal like you used, since it can't be sampled at that resolution, is to generate it artificially, one pixel at a time, this allows placing a white pixel in the middle of a field of black pixels, something which is "impossible" with a sampled image, which also means it is impossible to scale it to any resolution without damage (aliasing).
Quote:
I'm not sure what you mean here either.

You would need to use something like one of these:
http://www.bealecorner.org/red/test-patterns/

You would need to print it out, capture it with a camera, likely scale it in software to the resolution you desire (720p) and then display it on your projectors and evaluate the differences.
Quote:
Another guy did a nice observation:

At best that's a dramatic oversimplification of the situation.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do,
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post #8400 of 9087 Old 05-13-2014, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Re "band limited": For resampling (scaling) to work, the assumption, the requirement is that the signal be band limited to 1/2 the resolution, that means the signal (image) must have no information above a frequency of half the sampling frequency. The text you used in your comparison is essentially a square wave. Square waves have infinite bandwidth, but you could say they have "significant" information out to about 9 times the fundamental frequency. That means that, to capture (sample) and reproduce something like the text on a 1080p computer screen/projector, you would need a resolution of of almost 10,000 lines.

The only way to get a signal like you used, since it can't be sampled at that resolution, is to generate it artificially, one pixel at a time, this allows placing a white pixel in the middle of a field of black pixels, something which is "impossible" with a sampled image, which also means it is impossible to scale it to any resolution without damage (aliasing).
You would need to use something like one of these:
http://www.bealecorner.org/red/test-patterns/

You would need to print it out, capture it with a camera, likely scale it in software to the resolution you desire (720p) and then display it on your projectors and evaluate the differences.
At best that's a dramatic oversimplification of the situation.
You're saying a computer generated content with 100% MTF isn't suited for this? And I need a 50% MTF pattern to make a comparison? Isn't it better to just make comparison on the end content (games, movies) in that case?
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