Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 281 - AVS Forum
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post #8401 of 9103 Old 05-13-2014, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post

You're saying a computer generated content with 100% MTF isn't suited for this? And I need a 50% MTF pattern to make a comparison?

Basically, what you need is a pattern that wasn't artificially generated at the pixel level.
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Isn't it better to just make comparison on the end content (games, movies) in that case?

Better yes, but harder as well, since real-world content often doesn't show lots of detail near the Nyquist limit.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do,
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post #8402 of 9103 Old 05-13-2014, 03:28 PM
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Some advise please...I would really appreciate any feedback or alternative solutions that would work better.

Would this be the best cheapest solution to calibrate my X700?

JVC Projector Calibration Software
paired with
Spyder4Elite

Respectfully,
Mr. Hatcher


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post #8403 of 9103 Old 05-13-2014, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post

Some advise please...I would really appreciate any feedback or alternative solutions that would work better.

Would this be the best cheapest solution to calibrate my X700?

JVC Projector Calibration Software
paired with
Spyder4Elite

I only recently dove into the calibration domain, but from what I gathered this is another great way to start:

XRite i1 Display Pro 3 $224 - $25 online rebate
HCFR software free open source

This flow is for manual calibration, not automatic like JVC, but I'm told the colorimeter is much more accurate. Plus it provides a good path to upgrade to Calman/Chromapure in the future -- I'm eyeing Calman for its auto-calibration support coming soon to this year's model.

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post #8404 of 9103 Old 05-13-2014, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjcook View Post

I only recently dove into the calibration domain, but from what I gathered this is another great way to start:

XRite i1 Display Pro 3 $224 - $25 online rebate
HCFR software free open source

This flow is for manual calibration, not automatic like JVC, but I'm told the colorimeter is much more accurate. Plus it provides a good path to upgrade to Calman/Chromapure in the future -- I'm eyeing Calman for its auto-calibration support coming soon to this year's model.



+1 I use the same and am happy with the results.

James Reid:D
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post #8405 of 9103 Old 05-13-2014, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post

Some advise please...I would really appreciate any feedback or alternative solutions that would work better.

Would this be the best cheapest solution to calibrate my X700?

JVC Projector Calibration Software
paired with
Spyder4Elite

I think you should get either Calman or Chromopure basic for $350. It calibrates everything you need with a Display 3 meter. That's what I'm using
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post #8406 of 9103 Old 05-13-2014, 06:18 PM
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Thanks guys!

Well that sucks that you can't use the XRite i1 Display Pro 3 w/ the JVC autocal software.

I guess I could just use the manual method above and upgrade to Calman later for autocal.

Respectfully,
Mr. Hatcher


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post #8407 of 9103 Old 05-17-2014, 07:44 AM
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I have no interest in this projector but I suspect a lot of members on this forum will be interested. This projector sounds like a real bargain if the AVForums review is to be believed. I've posted it here since some might not see it in the under $3,000 section and it apparently competes very well against many of the over $3,000 projectors. Has Sony undercut everyone else? Will this be a game changer or has AVForums gone a little overboard (like they did, IMO, with the HD91)?

http://www.avforums.com/review/sony-vpl-hw40es-hw40-sxrd-3d-projector-review.10331

Here's another look:

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cine4home.de%2Ftests%2Fprojektoren%2FSony_VPL_HW40%2FSony_VPL-HW40_ES_Test.htm&edit-text=
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post #8408 of 9103 Old 05-17-2014, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Last night I saw Godzilla at the King of Prussia PA Imax, I believe the screen size is 55x75. Overall, the presentation was impressive, one of the best 3D i've seen in the theater.

Godzilla agrees:

dealwithit-godzilla-sunglasses.gif

Does anyone know which specific projectors they are using? I did see some mild x-talk but I was looking for it, no one I was with saw it. I was surprised how good the dark scenes looked, much better than the digital Imax at a local mall. It was also very sharp, more so than I was expecting given the size of this screen.

The LFE was strong and great visuals, I can't wait until this comes out on 3D BD.


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post #8409 of 9103 Old 05-17-2014, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

I have no interest in this projector but I suspect a lot of members on this forum will be interested. This projector sounds like a real bargain if the AVForums review is to be believed. I've posted it here since some might not see it in the under $3,000 section and it apparently competes very well against many of the over $3,000 projectors. Has Sony undercut everyone else? Will this be a game changer or has AVForums gone a little overboard (like they did, IMO, with the HD91)?

http://www.avforums.com/review/sony-vpl-hw40es-hw40-sxrd-3d-projector-review.10331

Here's another look:

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cine4home.de%2Ftests%2Fprojektoren%2FSony_VPL_HW40%2FSony_VPL-HW40_ES_Test.htm&edit-text=

If you compare the HW55 and HW40 tests it is hard to understand why he gives the HW40 better score in many of the different categories, and this just shows how inconsistent this site is when they test different projectors. To give it better score in color accuracy and so on is ok, but to give it better score in build quality, contrast, ease of use and 3D quality I find very strange.

The HW40 is for sure a very good projector as it is simply a HW55 without the iris.cool.gif

Regards
Andreas


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post #8410 of 9103 Old 05-17-2014, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post

If you compare the HW55 and HW40 tests it is hard to understand why he gives the HW40 better score in many of the different categories, and this just shows how inconsistent this site is when they test different projectors. To give it better score in color accuracy and so on is ok, but to give it better score in build quality, contrast, ease of use and 3D quality I find very strange.

The HW40 is for sure a very good projector as it is simply a HW55 without the iris.cool.gif

I was thinking the same thing, giving the HW40 a 9/10 seems really high. But I think that they really dislike any DI, when the reviewed the 4910 they did not even bother testing it.

James Reid:D
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post #8411 of 9103 Old 05-17-2014, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post


The LFE was strong and great visuals, I can't wait until this comes out on 3D BD.


cool.gif Thanks for the report! I might venture out to see this as well.

JVC 3D: Been there, done that, bought a DLP
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post #8412 of 9103 Old 05-18-2014, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post

cool.gif Thanks for the report! I might venture out to see this as well.

Is this movie any good? I've read conflicting reviews. I actually enjoyed PR and found the 3D conversion to be excellent. How does this one compare?
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post #8413 of 9103 Old 05-18-2014, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

Is this movie any good? I've read conflicting reviews. I actually enjoyed PR and found the 3D conversion to be excellent. How does this one compare?

Most of what I have read has been positive, so I am looking forward to it. Might try and see it today if I free up.

Zombie, did you like the movie? Please tell me it was WAY better than the 98 train wreck?!

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post #8414 of 9103 Old 05-18-2014, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Most of what I have read has been positive, so I am looking forward to it. Might try and see it today if I free up.

Zombie, did you like the movie? Please tell me it was WAY better than the 98 train wreck?!

no doubt, I liked this one much better. Pay close attention to the story, it took me a bit to put some of the pieces together.

all I can say is .. Godzilla is a bad ***, the whole audience was clapping at one of the finale scenes.

btw, when I said great 3D, I meant that the Imax in King of Prussia looked very good compared to the faux-max at my local mall. There was good depth, lots of military scenes where the 3D provided a sense of perspective, not too many pop outs if I recall.

I was surprised how good the dark scenes looked, I want to know which specific projectors they are using at this flag-ship Imax theater. We had the best seats, just a click above mid-level, dead center on the 55x75.
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post #8415 of 9103 Old 05-18-2014, 09:08 PM - Thread Starter
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check out the Planar 8170. well they never actually made this model, but it could have been a likely product # if they offered it with a DC4.

for those interested, it is possible to directly swap a .95 DC4 into the Planar 81xx / Runco LSx chassis with no modifications. These DMD's are difficult to come by, the best chance is a broken model that had this panel.


There is a good amount of work required, we have to remove the entire optical assembly to gain access to the panel that holds the DMD. This wasn't easy given the space constraints. Also, there is quite a bit of wiring and metal panels that have to be removed before the assembly can be removed from the chassis.

planar-surgery.jpg

Unishape driver that controls the lamp


planar-surgery1.jpg

Planar_8130-4.jpg

Planar_8130-8.jpg

Optical assembly / DMD panel


planar-surgery2.jpg

planar-surgery3.jpg

The color wheel was a little dirty, I decided to clean it with lint free pads I use for my camera lenses.

planar-surgery4.jpg

DC4 on the left, DC2+ on the right. These are very cool looking chips. they look like a CPU and sit in a CPU-like socket. There is a heat sink that draws heat away from the panel as seen in the above photo.

planar-surgery5.jpg

DC4 installed, optical assembly re-installed into the chassis, starting to wrap everything up.

planar-surgery6.jpg


I had no screws left over and it fired up perfect the 1st time after the swap. very nice. smile.gif

so the question is does it look better? I haven't had enough time to deep dive yet but went right in with Oblivion and some of the darker scenes looked very good. The black floor looks a click or 2 darker. I'll measure the contrast in a few days to verify.


This was a fun project even at the risk of bricking a perfectly good 6 year old 8130 that only has 130 hours on the lamp/chassis.
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post #8416 of 9103 Old 05-18-2014, 10:01 PM
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Very cool, as a guy who likes modding and building my own PCs this sort of thing is very cool to me. Thanks for posting.

James Reid:D
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post #8417 of 9103 Old 05-18-2014, 10:52 PM
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Those pictures look like they could be part of a cine4home review. biggrin.gif

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post #8418 of 9103 Old 05-18-2014, 11:27 PM
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This is beyond awesome! Did you measure the contrast before modifications?
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post #8419 of 9103 Old 05-19-2014, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

planar-surgery5.jpg

DC4 on the left, DC2+ on the right. These are very cool looking chips. they look like a CPU and sit in a CPU-like socket. There is a heat sink that draws heat away from the panel as seen in the above photo.
Is this the one you put in? http://www.ti.com/product/dlp9500 Technical document states Part No. 1910N9145. Google shows it sells for around $5k. eek.gif
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post #8420 of 9103 Old 05-19-2014, 05:06 AM
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Wow! Interesting experiment. I am looking forward to the Zombie Projector in the near future. It'll be laser with 2 DMDs (1M:1 on/off), have a built in 2D to 3D conversion that will put the Black Magic conversion to shame and light up a 150" screen in 3D. biggrin.gif

I'm completely enthralled with the Panasonic RZ470 hybrid projector. I'm watching nearly everything in 3D now using the Samsung glasses and the JVC RF emitter. I've lost all interest in 2D. I have no interest in watching movies in black and white or in 2D when given the choice. I just watched the Fifth Element in 3D -- it looked really, really good! I never thought I'd ever see movies this way and I'm very thankful.
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post #8421 of 9103 Old 05-19-2014, 06:02 AM
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Does Panasonic RZ470 have 2D-3D conversion? Or do you use PowerDVD's conversion?
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post #8422 of 9103 Old 05-19-2014, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post

Does Panasonic RZ470 have 2D-3D conversion? Or do you use PowerDVD's conversion?

I'm using PowerDVD's conversion with the RZ470. I had to adjust the depth control in PowerDVD since default was a little too strong for me and it tended to exaggerate any spacial errors. The Mits has the best conversion I've seen but it does not have quite the depth of PowerDVD. I'd buy the Black Magic solution; however, it is not HDCP compatible and I don't know of a workaround solution. AVForums stated an on/off for the RZ470 of 1800:1, which is pretty typical for DLP; however, the ANSI contrast of 800:1 helps. In Kraine's review he found a much higher on/off but I think the AVForums findings are much more accurate. In 3D mode the black levels come into their own and are very satisfying. The 3D is as clean as it gets. When it comes to usage this projector just smiles through all the abuse and there's a lot of abuse.
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post #8423 of 9103 Old 05-19-2014, 06:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Elix View Post

Is this the one you put in? http://www.ti.com/product/dlp9500 Technical document states Part No. 1910N9145. Google shows it sells for around $5k. eek.gif

the part # on the DC4 shows 1910-9140. they are nearly impossible to find.

I did some contrast measurements before, I don't expect a miracle though if we're comparing Cine4home's data on the 8130/8150. they basically had the same native with an advantage to the 8150 with the iris turned on. if I already had the 8150, I would probably have skipped this experiment.

There is no way I was opening up the optical assembly where the iris mechanism is, it looks too fragile. There is probably a chance to increase contrast in there by blacking out some surfaces but it's not worth the risk to me. getting the best DMD is good enough for now. if I need a deep black floor for my sci-fi movies / concerts, I'll fire up one of the JVC's.

anyway I'm pretty sure this is a unique projector now. I wonder if any of the Planar / Runco engineers have one of these hacks in their basement.


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post #8424 of 9103 Old 05-19-2014, 06:47 AM
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It's a fine hack all right. smile.gif Maybe you should start a thread on home-brew projector mods? That'll accumulate all the good ideas in one place.
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if I need a deep black floor for my sci-fi movies / concerts, I'll fire up one of the JVC's.
For what purpose do you fire your PD8170 then? smile.gif
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post #8425 of 9103 Old 05-19-2014, 08:18 AM
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So Zombie.. Where did you find the chip and what did it cost?

Doug

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post #8426 of 9103 Old 05-19-2014, 09:34 AM
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Hm, wonder if I could do the same with my old BenQ W5000....

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do,
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post #8427 of 9103 Old 05-19-2014, 10:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post

It's a fine hack all right. smile.gif Maybe you should start a thread on home-brew projector mods? That'll accumulate all the good ideas in one place.
For what purpose do you fire your PD8170 then? smile.gif

I use the Planar for general HDTV viewing and movies. Great color and it's nice and sharp. I use the darbee with it as well. Before the swap, even the entry JVC X35 would put a beating on it though in low APL scenes (dark sci-fi and stage concerts). We'll see if this change helped a bit here.

airscapes - a fellow member contacted me who had one out a broken projector. I've been searching for one since september. These are very difficult to find imo.


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post #8428 of 9103 Old 05-19-2014, 10:12 AM
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If you hit 20000:1 dynamic I will weep. *sob*
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post #8429 of 9103 Old 05-19-2014, 11:04 PM
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The PD8130 uses the best DC2 chip out there. It's a "Super DC2" as some have referred to it in the past. This is why the difference in contrast between the PD8150 and PD8130 wasn't crazy different. I think cine4home measured around 12000:1 with the PD8150 and 8000:1 with the PD8130. If they had been using a DC2 DMD similar to what was in the BenQ W5000, it would have been a totally different story and the difference in contrast would have been huge. This is why he's only seeing contrast that's a few "clicks" deeper. It should help with lower APL scenes and with black level. Also supposedly the mirrors on the DC4 DMDs reflect more light so he should be getting a higher peak white. This was also apparent in the cine4home review. I'm sure he'll measure both. But I doubt he'll be getting 20000:1. Maybe 2500:1 additional contrast or close to it.

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post #8430 of 9103 Old 05-20-2014, 04:51 AM
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But remember, this is to a DC4 which is a better chip than the DC3 in the Planar 8150 (hence the "8170" name), so it should be a bit better than even an 8150. An interesting experiment to be sure.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do,
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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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