Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 286 - AVS Forum
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post #8551 of 9087 Old 06-02-2014, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Me three.

The first thing most of us projector owners (JVC owners anyway) notice in commercial movie theaters is how much lower the contrast is, how much higher the black levels look. I think commercial cinemas
get what, 2 or 3,000:1 contrast?

Wow, that low? It sure didn't look like that last night.

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post #8552 of 9087 Old 06-02-2014, 08:29 AM
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Well they do have safety lighting to contend with so there's only so much they can do.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do,
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post #8553 of 9087 Old 06-02-2014, 08:38 AM
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I wonder how capable those projectors are of contrast if a situation was ideal? They are DLP, right?

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post #8554 of 9087 Old 06-02-2014, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

I wonder how capable those projectors are of contrast if a situation was ideal? They are DLP, right?

You would be surprised just how good DCI projectors look despite the on paper contrast spec's being not so good - the color and detail is outstanding.
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post #8555 of 9087 Old 06-02-2014, 09:43 AM
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Well they do have safety lighting to contend with so there's only so much they can do.

True but there would be other benefits to increasing on/off. Unfortunately the powers that be in the DCI world are under the misunderstanding that once you hit 1K:1 it doesn't matter, which is false. They also believe that ANSI contrast is more relevant in movie theater enviroments, which is also false. DCI projectors can look absolutely fantastic for detail, brightness and color/motion but their elevated black floor can be a distraction. I think the newer 4K DLP projectors are even worse than the older 2K projectors in this regard. But there is so many other variables that throw curves into the situation: crappy silver screens, too much ambient lighting (especially those bright LED floor lights that are becoming popular), incorrect lens setup (a problem with Sony AND DLP now) and proper attention to projector setup in general (focus). It is rare to find a theater that really goes out of their way to ensure the best possible presentation. I've found a few in my area that are typically great in one respect (audio or video) but seldomly the other. It reminds me of the people that are saying they prefer film based presentation over a digital projector. I imagine most of them live in the Hollywood area and are used to the hand picked prints at a place like the Arclight chain as opposed to what you get anywhere else in the United States that looks like it was dragged from the back of the Fedex truck it was delivered on before being cue'd up for your viewing pleasure.

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post #8556 of 9087 Old 06-02-2014, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

You would be surprised just how good DCI projectors look despite the on paper contrast spec's being not so good - the color and detail is outstanding.

I agree Craig. I saw a DCI projector shooting onto a 13' wide scope screen and the image sure did not look like it lacked anything. It was outstanding. This was in Alan's theater. Alan could have any projector that he wanted, and he takes the DCI projector over everything else he has seen and he has owned a lot of projectors.

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post #8557 of 9087 Old 06-02-2014, 01:31 PM
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The color fidelity, depth of a 3-chip DLP coupled with DCI complaint processing (10 & 12 bit depth output) and wider DCI-P3 color gamut of DCI sources. The best motion resolution available to digital projectors and sheer light output suitable for a gigantic screen. Sequential contrast alone does not out-weight all these things, I think.
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post #8558 of 9087 Old 06-02-2014, 01:41 PM
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I agree. I must have top quality local cinemas then. I rarely have a complaint about image quality from these local DCI machines. Is the difference in on/off contrast apparent? Yes. But do I feel the difference hurts the presentation? Not one bit. Most of the theaters around me are using Sony 4K machines and a few are still using DLP machines from Barco and Christie. I usually pop my head up to the port glass and see what projectors they're using before the movie starts.

I will say I saw Bad Words recently and the theater was using a Christie 2K DLP projector. The bulb looked like it should have been replaced many hundreds of hours ago. The presentation was extremely dim and lacked in contrast far too much. The presentation was horrible and not worth the price of admission. I was with friends so I kept my mouth shut. I doubt they noticed anything. Though, luckily this was at a theater close to an hour away and was a stark difference to what my local theaters typically look like.

One thing that normally sticks out to me when I see a presentation at commercial cinemas is the difference in motion. I'm not referring to motion resolution, but motion regarding pans. I know about the limitations with 24 fps capture but I just feel there is less "stuttering" in pans when I see a film theatrically on these DCI machines. Has anyone else seen this or am I just crazy?

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post #8559 of 9087 Old 06-02-2014, 01:42 PM
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I actually like the image quality at my local theaters as well (the better ones anyway).

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post #8560 of 9087 Old 06-02-2014, 01:53 PM
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Are the Sony 4K theater projectors still using SXRD?

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post #8561 of 9087 Old 06-02-2014, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Are the Sony 4K theater projectors still using SXRD?

Yup. smile.gif

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post #8562 of 9087 Old 06-02-2014, 02:08 PM
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I wish I knew which theaters around here are using the SXRD and what I watched last night. Will the theaters tell you or does whoever talk to even know? lol

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post #8563 of 9087 Old 06-02-2014, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

I wish I knew which theaters around here are using the SXRD and what I watched last night. Will the theaters tell you or does whoever talk to even know? lol

Typically there's a ~10 second "Sony 4K Projector" trailer before the presentation begins to let you know. If you don't see that it's probably not a Sony 4K machine.

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post #8564 of 9087 Old 06-02-2014, 02:23 PM
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Typically there's a ~10 second "Sony 4K Projector" trailer before the presentation begins to let you know. If you don't see that it's probably not a Sony 4K machine.

Saw nothing last night regarding a trailer, but I do recall seeing DLP trailers in the past.

Now that I am into front projection I start to notice some things.

Like last night, they were using a CIH screen and I could see a bit of trapezoid effect on 1:85 trailers. It was also seemingly a 2:35 screen as Spider-Man 2 is 2:40 and very thin bars and could be seen with it. I was also looking for shimmer/sparkles, in the screen, but didn't really see any although I did see some kind of vertical lines in a couple of areas of the screen material.

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post #8565 of 9087 Old 06-02-2014, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

I wish I knew which theaters around here are using the SXRD and what I watched last night. Will the theaters tell you or does whoever talk to even know? lol

Some will. I have called quite a few theaters and asked them what they are using for specific showings. I've also gotten tours of the projection booths of many of the local theaters when I've asked. The group of friends I go to movies with are really particular about where we see movies so we do some research and cherry pick.

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post #8566 of 9087 Old 06-02-2014, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Saw nothing last night regarding a trailer, but I do recall seeing DLP trailers in the past.

Now that I am into front projection I start to notice some things.

Like last night, they were using a CIH screen and I could see a bit of trapezoid effect on 1:85 trailers. It was also seemingly a 2:35 screen as Spider-Man 2 is 2:40 and very thin bars and could be seen with it. I was also looking for shimmer/sparkles, in the screen, but didn't really see any although I did see some kind of vertical lines in a couple of areas of the screen material.

Before or after the movie just walk to the back of the theater and look through the glass at the projector. If it is a Sony you'll see the Sony label on the front above the lens. Barco does this as well. Usually pretty easy to see what it is. I ALWAYS look before the movie to ensure they have the projector setup for 2D and not 3D. If it is in a 3D setup (dual lenses) I tell them and ask them to set it up properly.

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post #8567 of 9087 Old 06-02-2014, 09:03 PM
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I haven't even been to a commercial theater since 2008. No point when you have your own theater.

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post #8568 of 9087 Old 06-02-2014, 09:46 PM
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I disagree. My theater looks and sounds better than any around me but I love seeing films on the big screen and sharing that with others. My home theater has never stopped me from wanting to still see movies I'm excited about at the theater though it makes it easy to skip the ones I'm on the fence about.

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post #8569 of 9087 Old 06-03-2014, 12:03 AM
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I agree with Kris. Going to see a movie in a movie theater is an event in itself. Hardly anything can replace that experience, even your own DCI-equipped HT, and not just because of viewing conditions. The atmosphere can only be replicated if you open your own commercial cinema and invite your friends to it. biggrin.gif
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post #8570 of 9087 Old 06-03-2014, 03:54 AM
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I dont know what movie theaters you go to, but any time I've gone to a public theater it hasn't been a good experience. You're stuck for 1.5+ hours sitting there watching the movie, whereas I prefer to take breaks.
There are all kinds of bad smells and sometimes people talking.

I don't get the experience, just being around people doesn't do it for me.



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post #8571 of 9087 Old 06-03-2014, 05:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

I haven't even been to a commercial theater since 2008. No point when you have your own theater.
+1
If there's an a-hole who wants to talk thru the movie I usually manage to sit right nearby.

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post #8572 of 9087 Old 06-03-2014, 05:15 AM
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Ih the home theaters where I go, some lights stay on throughout the presentation. When I try to replicate a similar lighting in my home theater, the contrast obviously suffers a lot. No projector can do miracles with contrast when the room is lit...

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post #8573 of 9087 Old 06-03-2014, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

I disagree. My theater looks and sounds better than any around me but I love seeing films on the big screen and sharing that with others. My home theater has never stopped me from wanting to still see movies I'm excited about at the theater though it makes it easy to skip the ones I'm on the fence about.

Same here. Nothing for me replicates the feeling of seeing a movie when it's first out in the theaters, with a crowd. As I mentioned in another thread, for me movies are most "alive" when they first come out, there is a general buzz about the movie among the public, and one is seeing it for the first time with a lot of other people. Like when a song has just begun to be popular that you like and it is at it's "happening" moment as part of the current gestalt. Purchasing the song way down the road when it's no longer "alive" like that doesn't really compete to being somewhere, hearing it over the sound system and thinking "Oh I love this new song!" Watching movies after the buzz has died down feels more cold and canned for me, despite the tehcnical excellence of a good home theater.

I just saw the X-men movie with my son at our local drive in. Not surprisingly the image quality was pretty poor, but there was a level and fun and excitement to the whole experience that I never have had in my home theater. I always really appreciate the technical qualities of my home theater presentation, but I rarely get the heightened "feel" for a movie experience from it that I do from going out to a movie theater. If I could, I'd see all movies first at a movie theater,
but for various reasons I can't do that, so my home theater is a sort of "back up" for still getting a big (kind of) screen experience.

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post #8574 of 9087 Old 06-03-2014, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I dont know what movie theaters you go to, but any time I've gone to a public theater it hasn't been a good experience. You're stuck for 1.5+ hours sitting there watching the movie, whereas I prefer to take breaks.
There are all kinds of bad smells and sometimes people talking.

I don't get the experience, just being around people doesn't do it for me.

I never take breaks unless nature calls, and that is a rarity. I would have a hard time waiting for movies to come out on video before seeing them, I'm way too much of a movie geek for that. Plus, even with my 120" screen, nothing can replicate the massive screens at theaters and I make it a point to see movies on MASSIVE screens like RPX, ETX and IMAX. Plus it is one of the few chances I get to see a large group of friends that I don't see very often but we get together for a movie night out. I LOVE watching movies at home, but it hasn't put a damper on my theater going at all. Sure I get pissy about noise in the theater on occasion but it is rarely if ever an issue (we go to movies on Thursday nights usually for the 8 or 9PM showing, so the theater is typically pretty empty). I've also noticed that the general public doesn't typically pay the extra fee for seeing the movie at a RPX or ETX cinema that night, so there are quite a few times when we are the only ones there or there is only a hanful of other people. Movie theaters at malls or shopping centers have the bigger crowds that tend to be a bit more obnoxious and we generally avoid those or the times that are more popular (weekend shows).

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post #8575 of 9087 Old 06-03-2014, 08:14 AM
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Same here. Nothing for me replicates the feeling of seeing a movie when it's first out in the theaters, with a crowd. As I mentioned in another thread, for me movies are most "alive" when they first come out, there is a general buzz about the movie among the public, and one is seeing it for the first time with a lot of other people. Like when a song has just begun to be popular that you like and it is at it's "happening" moment as part of the current gestalt. Purchasing the song way down the road when it's no longer "alive" like that doesn't really compete to being somewhere, hearing it over the sound system and thinking "Oh I love this new song!" Watching movies after the buzz has died down feels more cold and canned for me, despite the tehcnical excellence of a good home theater.

I just saw the X-men movie with my son at our local drive in. Not surprisingly the image quality was pretty poor, but there was a level and fun and excitement to the whole experience that I never have had in my home theater. I always really appreciate the technical qualities of my home theater presentation, but I rarely get the heightened "feel" for a movie experience from it that I do from going out to a movie theater. If I could, I'd see all movies first at a movie theater,
but for various reasons I can't do that, so my home theater is a sort of "back up" for still getting a big (kind of) screen experience.

I agree with this totally.

I wonder how it would be if this ever catches on: http://www.engadget.com/2013/09/27/prima-cinema-eyes-on/

Watching a first run movie at home with friends would be incredible. (I'm not sure about that $500 a movie price tag or the $35k entry fee though...)

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post #8576 of 9087 Old 06-03-2014, 08:31 AM
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Interesting comments. Nothing beats the excitement ( for me ) of technical rock climbing, white water kayaking, cross country skate skiing ( and biathlon ) and now road bicycling. Going to a commercial movie theater for a first run movie - not even close - more an irritation. You want a first rate movie experience, I'll pour you 2001 Brunello or a 30 year old single malt and we'll watch a movie in my theater. The most fun I've ever had at the movies was screening " It's A Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World " for a dozen friends that laughed their a$$ off. And we had a " Goldfinger " movie night with vodka martinis, shaken, not stirred ( followed by chocolate martinis ). Had a theater full of people - and they all loved it! I sincerely doubt I'll ever go to a commercial theater again. Why? I have a library of around 400 Blu Rays, and a wine cellar with 1400 bottles of wine. I'd rather take the money I save from not going to a commercial theater and put it towards a future 4K laser Lumis ( or whatever top notch projector is available in 5 years ).

Hell, we even have a popcorn machine and commercial popcorn packs - and it doesn't cost you $ 10.00 a bag !

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post #8577 of 9087 Old 06-03-2014, 08:35 AM
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I hear you Craig, we all have our own interests and priorities. Me, I've always been crazy about going to the movies, ever since Jaws put the hook into me and I saw it something like 25 times in the movies theaters.
I used to see almost every movie twice, and being in the first line up, opening day for every big movie was a ritual for me. And I always wanted to work in film (as I do). So...that kind of experience is front and center for me.
(That and great food, traveling, music, martial arts 'n stuff...)

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post #8578 of 9087 Old 06-03-2014, 08:40 AM
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It's also a time priority thing. It's easier to arrange movie nights at our house. My wife likes to get out and do things of the outdoor adventure kind ( and now triathlon too ). Having our own top notch home theater means we can watch a couple of movies a week. If we had to go to a commercial theater, well, we'd probably see a couple of movies a year. eek.gif

Probably why I built a wine cellar too - I don't need to shop for wine for a dinner party until sometime after the year 2025. eek.gifeek.gifeek.gif

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post #8579 of 9087 Old 06-03-2014, 08:46 AM
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I definitely feel less of a need to go to a theater now with a front projection set-up, but I will still go a couple of times or so per year.

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post #8580 of 9087 Old 06-03-2014, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post

I agree with Kris. Going to see a movie in a movie theater is an event in itself. Hardly anything can replace that experience, even your own DCI-equipped HT, and not just because of viewing conditions. The atmosphere can only be replicated if you open your own commercial cinema and invite your friends to it. biggrin.gif

Agreed. My kids love the home theater but GOING to the movies is still an event for them. I still get amped up for this, but am finding less reasons to go outside of the atmosphere.

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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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