Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 299 - AVS Forum
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post #8941 of 9087 Old 08-24-2014, 08:54 AM
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I compared both the 2.4 and 2.8 in my room before buying my 2.8 (I lucked out and got one of the last ones!) and it was not even close in my center viewing seat as the 2.8 was considerably brighter as evidenced in the photos above. Moving off to the extreme ends of my couch, the 2.4 started catching up and they became close, but the 2.8 in my setup still had a slight edge even in these seats. If you have good placement/setup for the 2.8, there is NO WAY the 2.4 will be brighter. Of course it doesn't really matter now since I don't think you can get either anymore.

On a related note, I am SO paranoid about my 2.8 as I feel it is some sort of historical rare gem and I fear the possibility of it getting ruined somehow! Really wish they still sold this material! I am sure the other 2.8 lovers out there can relate.

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post #8942 of 9087 Old 08-24-2014, 02:03 PM - Thread Starter
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doug that is good info, thx for posting those additional photos. I've installed several 2.4's and agree the 2.8 is brighter than the perceived .4 difference when set up for optimal gain. I have my main 3D projector mounted at eye level and the seats are 4 across my 142" 2.8 so it works out well for this setup. I can't imagine 3D without the HP, I would have needed a much different projector setup to enjoy 3D at this brightness level.

todd, I also have one of the last 2.8's made. I wanted a 133"+ Cinema Contour for years and they kept telling me 133" was the limit. I came across a VP @ Dalite who said it was no problem to custom order the 142" 16:9 with no seams on the 2.8 material. soon after it was gone.

I don't think 3D was on their mind when they made it years ago. the HP is dead.. long live the HP.

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post #8943 of 9087 Old 08-24-2014, 02:20 PM
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Is HP really gone forever?
I thought that DaLite was just reformulating it and planned to bring it back...
Can anyone confirm this?
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post #8944 of 9087 Old 08-24-2014, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by humbland View Post
Is HP really gone forever?
I thought that DaLite was just reformulating it and planned to bring it back...
Can anyone confirm this?
It is strange that the 2.4 HP material isn't listed on their website anymore. I think I got one of the last High Contrast High Power screens. I had to send mine in for replacement as the first started to get waves in the material after only 6 months. They told me they had to be sure they had enough material left to make the screen. Luckily they did.

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post #8945 of 9087 Old 08-24-2014, 02:56 PM
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I wrote to Jeff Meier here on avs regarding the hp measurements in the accucal report. The projector was apparently mounted high during the measurements (on axis was referring to the horizontal position), which explains the lower hp results.

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post #8946 of 9087 Old 08-24-2014, 03:04 PM
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None-the-less, the 2.4 has plenty of gain, that's not the issue, the issue is the texture. Even I notice it.

That will suck if even the 2.4 material is going to be gone, I'm debating on ordering a spare.
I might still be able to get a new Manual B under $250 with the 2.4 material. Only problem with Manual B's is they don't roll-up or down (At least mine doesn't, I have to take it off the wall to roll it up, lol)...



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post #8947 of 9087 Old 08-24-2014, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
None-the-less, the 2.4 has plenty of gain, that's not the issue, the issue is the texture. Even I notice it.

That will suck if even the 2.4 material is going to be gone, I'm debating on ordering a spare.
I might still be able to get a new Manual B under $250 with the 2.4 material. Only problem with Manual B's is they don't roll-up or down (At least mine doesn't, I have to take it off the wall to roll it up, lol)...
I agree. The 2.8 has a much "smoother" surface. It's almost as if the glass beads are smaller and more evenly sized and sprayed on the substrate.

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post #8948 of 9087 Old 08-24-2014, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post

On a related note, I am SO paranoid about my 2.8 as I feel it is some sort of historical rare gem and I fear the possibility of it getting ruined somehow! Really wish they still sold this material! I am sure the other 2.8 lovers out there can relate.
I almost feel the same way about my HP 2.8 screen. I haven't got rid of it yet, even though I don't use it!

This is also the first I've heard that even the 2.4 might go away. Sad.
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post #8949 of 9087 Old 08-24-2014, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
I agree. The 2.8 has a much "smoother" surface. It's almost as if the glass beads are smaller and more evenly sized and sprayed on the substrate.
Take a look at my magnified photos.. 2.8 are larger perfectly uniformed and tightly packed. They are imbedded in the substrate. The 2.4 are 3 different sizes mostly smaller with spaces between them where the substrate shows through. The photos don't show it, but it looks like the 2.4 is sprayed on with the emulsifier rather than being embedded in the substrate.. This is why the 2.4 is better off axis.. lets beads more plain white.. At least that is my take after viewing under the microscope.

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post #8950 of 9087 Old 08-24-2014, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
I agree. The 2.8 has a much "smoother" surface. It's almost as if the glass beads are smaller and more evenly sized and sprayed on the substrate.
Interesting. I had a HP2.8 for several yrs, but by then wanted to go for a larger screen, and only the HP2.4 was available at that time. On the basis of memory (admittedly unreliable), I thought the the 2.4 gave a smoother pic than the 2.8. But I never had the two at the same time to compare side by side. In any event, I'm very pleased with my HP 2.4, and if I ever change houses, or something, where I will need to get a new screen, I hope that the HP screen makes a re-appearance.
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post #8951 of 9087 Old 08-24-2014, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
None-the-less, the 2.4 has plenty of gain, that's not the issue, the issue is the texture. Even I notice it.

That will suck if even the 2.4 material is going to be gone, I'm debating on ordering a spare.
I might still be able to get a new Manual B under $250 with the 2.4 material. Only problem with Manual B's is they don't roll-up or down (At least mine doesn't, I have to take it off the wall to roll it up, lol)...
I remember you saying a ways back how you wanted a different screen and how other screens were better than the HP screen. I spent 2 years with a HP 2.4 screen and the last 1.5 years with a unity gain screen. I think I'm going to go back to the HP 2.4 screen that's laying around. I have an all velvet room, so that's why I went with the unity gain screen.
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post #8952 of 9087 Old 08-24-2014, 03:57 PM
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I remember you saying a ways back how you wanted a different screen and how other screens were better than the HP screen. I spent 2 years with a HP 2.4 screen and the last 1.5 years with a unity gain screen. I think I'm going to go back to the HP 2.4 screen that's laying around. I have an all velvet room, so that's why I went with the unity gain screen.

I will be very interested in your thoughts if you put up the 2.4 screen, I also have a unity screen in a all velvet room.

James Reid:D
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post #8953 of 9087 Old 08-25-2014, 11:47 AM
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I remember you saying a ways back how you wanted a different screen and how other screens were better than the HP screen. I spent 2 years with a HP 2.4 screen and the last 1.5 years with a unity gain screen. I think I'm going to go back to the HP 2.4 screen that's laying around. I have an all velvet room, so that's why I went with the unity gain screen.
I kept the HP because of the gain, I think most of us just feel stuck to the HP (unless you have the 2.8 then you might be 100% satisfied). For the first few years, I didn't notice the texture (I wasn't looking for it), but the texture becomes much more noticeable in HTPC usage on all white.

I also agree the 2.8 is more than the stated 0.4 gain difference, as I noted I believe the 2.4 to actually be 2.0 to 2.2 on perfect axis, but I think the 2.8 is closer to 3.0 gain, that would make a difference of 0.8 to 1.0 gain, that is a big difference. Still the 2.4 is plenty for me, unless I had a bigger screen, I just want something that has no texture.



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post #8954 of 9087 Old 08-25-2014, 12:21 PM
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Elunevison has a 2.4 screen, I have their unity screen and it is fantastic. I was considering going for the 2.4 screen but I fear texture, a lot. Be nice to hear if anyone in here has experience with Elunevison's 2.4 screen.

James Reid:D
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post #8955 of 9087 Old 08-26-2014, 04:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
I kept the HP because of the gain, I think most of us just feel stuck to the HP (unless you have the 2.8 then you might be 100% satisfied). For the first few years, I didn't notice the texture (I wasn't looking for it), but the texture becomes much more noticeable in HTPC usage on all white.

I also agree the 2.8 is more than the stated 0.4 gain difference, as I noted I believe the 2.4 to actually be 2.0 to 2.2 on perfect axis, but I think the 2.8 is closer to 3.0 gain, that would make a difference of 0.8 to 1.0 gain, that is a big difference. Still the 2.4 is plenty for me, unless I had a bigger screen, I just want something that has no texture.
That's the reason I switched. I just looked for the textured too much. I don't see it at all now with my current screen. But I'm curious to see how a HP screen looks again
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post #8956 of 9087 Old 08-26-2014, 07:38 AM - Thread Starter
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based on the mixed comments, there may have been sample variances between the different production runs. The last two 2.4's I installed looked like the photo that Doug posted. It has a canvas like texture and I noticed it in bright scenes more so than my 2.8 from 2010.



I had a 92" model C pull down with the 2.8HP that I gave to a coworker. I wish I had it back, it would have been perfect for a TV room.


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post #8957 of 9087 Old 08-26-2014, 08:19 AM
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based on the mixed comments, there may have been sample variances between the different production runs. The last two 2.4's I installed looked like the photo that Doug posted. It has a canvas like texture and I noticed it in bright scenes more so than my 2.8 from 2010.



I had a 92" model C pull down with the 2.8HP that I gave to a coworker. I wish I had it back, it would have been perfect for a TV room.
Some people complain about a paisley looking texture of the 2.8 on white fields. I have seen this on my 2.8 when it was dirty, but I recall a member saying no matter of cleaning would remove it.. maybe just a defective piece but this was corroborated by a couple of others. No texture on mine.. do have a couple of beads hanging out in mid air causing sparklies at just the right location.. wife saw one the other night..

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post #8958 of 9087 Old 08-27-2014, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
None-the-less, the 2.4 has plenty of gain, that's not the issue, the issue is the texture. Even I notice it.

That will suck if even the 2.4 material is going to be gone, I'm debating on ordering a spare.
I might still be able to get a new Manual B under $250 with the 2.4 material. Only problem with Manual B's is they don't roll-up or down (At least mine doesn't, I have to take it off the wall to roll it up, lol)...
I have a 2.8 gain model B that I have had for many years. It still rolls up, just like it did when new. I used offset brackets when I mounted mine. Had to clear the doors that open up for the TV below. This allowed me to use screw eyes and nuts, which means I could fine tune the screen height at each end and get it perfectly level. That is the key to getting these to last and helps in keeping them from developing waves.

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post #8959 of 9087 Old 08-27-2014, 10:51 AM
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It has a canvas like texture and I noticed it in bright scenes more so than my 2.8 from 2010.


That would drive me nuts, but I so sensitive to see any kind of screen texture/artifact, hence I had to go with the Stewart ST100.

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post #8960 of 9087 Old 08-27-2014, 03:33 PM
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That would drive me nuts, but I so sensitive to see any kind of screen texture/artifact, hence I had to go with the Stewart ST100.

Ya, I prefer my StudioTek 130 G3 - some gain with minimal surface texture / sheen. I should have kept my old manual 2.8 High Power, but I needed the space in the garage.

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post #8961 of 9087 Old 08-27-2014, 07:54 PM
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I have a 2.8 gain model B that I have had for many years. It still rolls up, just like it did when new. I used offset brackets when I mounted mine. Had to clear the doors that open up for the TV below. This allowed me to use screw eyes and nuts, which means I could fine tune the screen height at each end and get it perfectly level. That is the key to getting these to last and helps in keeping them from developing waves.
Mine also: 2.8 Model B hung from ceiling perfectly level. Been up since 2000. Cost me $300 new. Still in perfect condition. It's 92x42 (2.20:1) with a bunch of extra drop top and bottom. Since we now have 1080 and LCOS, I wish it were larger. I'd buy a bigger 2.8 in a heartbeat. I'm seriously considering a bigger 2.4 if they return to market. Projector is ceiling mounted - the screen still functions great - rejects all reflections from everything except surfaces which are directly behind the projector.

With all of the criticisms one reads of the Hi-power, it's interesting that virtually none come from anyone who's owned one - - especially the 2.8.

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post #8962 of 9087 Old 08-27-2014, 08:17 PM
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That's because no one wants to admit buyers remorse haha. Just kidding, I love mine but I'll be the first to admit it has it's issues, as do all things in projector-world.
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post #8963 of 9087 Old 08-27-2014, 08:30 PM
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I had my old ST130 G3 sitting here for a few years before it finally sold and I never missed it at all moving to my 2.8. I could have easily put the 130 back up at any time, but NEVER felt the need. The texture on both the 130 G3 and 2.8 can be seen in the right type of scene, but it's not obtrusive to my eyes unlike other screens I have owned.
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post #8964 of 9087 Old 08-27-2014, 08:42 PM
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I had my old ST130 G3 sitting here for a few years before it finally sold and I never missed it at all moving to my 2.8. I could have easily put the 130 back up at any time, but NEVER felt the need. The texture on both the 130 G3 and 2.8 can be seen in the right type of scene, but it's not obtrusive to my eyes unlike other screens I have owned.

With the 130 G3, do you mean sparkles? I have a sample here of that material and it has literally NO texture. It's as smooth as calfskin leather. But I can see some sparkle elements in it.

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post #8965 of 9087 Old 08-27-2014, 11:16 PM
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With the 130 G3, do you mean sparkles? I have a sample here of that material and it has literally NO texture. It's as smooth as calfskin leather. But I can see some sparkle elements in it.
No, I mean texture or the optical coating. I could see the sparkles from time to time as well. I can't speak to your sample, but I owned two G3 ST130s (1.78 and 2.35) and there is most certainly visible texture in the right type of scene like a panning sky shot for example. Nothing obtrusive to my eyes like I mentioned, but it's there and the screen is certainly not invisible whether you describe this as visible texture or sparkles. Its certainly going to be harder to see this type of thing on a small sample vs a full size screen as well.

To keep this in perspective, I loved my two G3 130 screens overall during the four years I used them.

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post #8966 of 9087 Old 08-28-2014, 06:37 AM
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I have a 2.8 gain model B that I have had for many years. It still rolls up, just like it did when new. I used offset brackets when I mounted mine. Had to clear the doors that open up for the TV below. This allowed me to use screw eyes and nuts, which means I could fine tune the screen height at each end and get it perfectly level. That is the key to getting these to last and helps in keeping them from developing waves.
Mine never rolled up no matter what position it was mounted in even when it was brand new, it was just defective and I probably should have exchanged it. I had 2 people moving and holding the thing in different angles to see if it would ever roll up, it always required laying it on the floor and unscrewing the holster and then rolling it up manually. I think some just come defective or something.

Where do I get the offset brackets, since this was only a 106" screen, I always mounted it using cork-screw metal screws, they easily hold the screen up in the sheet rock without needing to use special mounting equipment. If I buy another one, I'll use the offset brackets.



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post #8967 of 9087 Old 08-28-2014, 08:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Planar 8130 (Runco LS3) for a great price, I'm surprised no one picked this up yet. seller says local pickup only but may be able to convince to ship.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Planar-Home-...item27ea26ac13

if anyone is looking for crystal clear 1080P .95 DLP with excellent out of the box color, grab it.
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post #8968 of 9087 Old 08-28-2014, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
Planar 8130 (Runco LS3) for a great price, I'm surprised no one picked this up yet. seller says local pickup only but may be able to convince to ship.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Planar-Home-...item27ea26ac13

if anyone is looking for crystal clear 1080P .95 DLP with excellent out of the box color, grab it.
If he would ship it ,I would buy it
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post #8969 of 9087 Old 08-28-2014, 07:37 PM
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If he would ship it ,I would buy it
A guy with one post in the AVS Classified has an LS5 for $1800 or BO

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post #8970 of 9087 Old 08-28-2014, 07:42 PM
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A guy with one post in the AVS Classified has an LS5 for $1800
That's an excellent price for the unit. Too bad Runco didn't include the DC4 DMD when they brought it over from the Planar line. Though I would imagine contrast performance to be pretty similar (within 15%). The only thing is the chassis is a dull matte black. The older chassis with the high gloss piano black finish is beautiful.

The LS-5 represents the best 2D image from any DLP projector under $15,000. Yes, even better than the LED models.

(Don't mind the fingerprint )

Last edited by Seegs108; 08-28-2014 at 07:52 PM.
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