Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 303 - AVS Forum
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post #9061 of 9087 Old 09-13-2014, 08:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by millerwill View Post
I heard comments from several persons at CEDIA (who I think were 'in' on things) that the 4K BD specs were now 'all set', though they wouldn't say what they were. Are they now all finalized?
I was just referring to the recent general discussion from the BDA, not specifically the final spec. Maybe by CES we'll have the specific details.

Thanks for your input from the Cedia show. I'm sure your VW1100 is still looking pretty good compared to what was at the show this year.


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post #9062 of 9087 Old 09-13-2014, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post
Well said Zombie.......bring on next year!
The rush for the upgrade anxiety has come down a few clicks. now I can finish my blackout project and still enjoy some of these cool projectors I have here.


edit: as a reward for my incredible constraint, I am going to treat myself to one of these:

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/FV15HP.html


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post #9063 of 9087 Old 09-13-2014, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
The rush for the upgrade anxiety has come down a few clicks. now I can finish my blackout project and still enjoy some of these cool projectors I have here.


edit: as a reward for my incredible constraint, I am going to treat myself to one of these:

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/FV15HP.html

Yeah, I'd say you got the video side of this hobby covered pretty well! I need to do a few audio upgrades as well and probably should focus on that this year, but still have not fully ruled out grabbing a 4910. Problem is I watch something like Need for Speed last night in 2d on my calibrated RS45 and I feel no need to upgrade as the picture this projector puts out for me (I know there are better projectors out there of course including the newer JVCs) is still fantastic. In light of that, holding out another year or even two seems like the best way to go.

JVC 3D: Been there, done that, bought a DLP

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post #9064 of 9087 Old 09-13-2014, 09:07 AM
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...

Thanks for your input from the Cedia show. I'm sure your VW1100 is still looking pretty good compared to what was at the show this year.
Yes, I may keep in a while (or will it to my daughter and son-in-law, as Ericglo suggests, to replace my old RS20 they now have), but it's about time for another lamp; I seem to go through about one a year (good thing I'm now emeritus!). Still, a $700 lamp a year is better than a $5-15K pj per yr.

One of the people who seemed to now what he was talking about said that the color space spec that had been agreed upon is Rec 2020. From what I've been reading here, the VW1100 can do the P3 color space, but not the Rec 2020; is that correct?
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post #9065 of 9087 Old 09-13-2014, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post
I feel the Epson by itself makes attending the show worthwhile. Here's a chance to see how a laser projector compares to everything else -- colour, brightness, black level, etc. Is Epson's e-shift technology any good? You could tell us. This is a chance to see the future of front projection and also an opportunity to find out if Epson can do the impossible -- produce DLP like 3D from a non-DLP projector. If you love front projection why wouldn't you want to be first in line to see this tech in action?

DV


Do you still have the Pana PT-RZ370 ( or was it the 470 ) ? and how is/was it in 3D and what about light output and contrast ?


I did see the new PT-RZ670 ( a almost finish prototype ) yesterday ( a 6000 lumens 1 chip DLP laser projector with WUXGA resolution ) on a 1.0 gain screen and a Supernova ( DNP ) grey screen ( 0.8 gain ? ). Sadly I didnt see it with any 3D, but it looked very good in 2D ( exspecially on the Supernova in a not good room = light/ White room ) ,except that it wasnt calibreted and was a lot to cool adjusted.


dj

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post #9066 of 9087 Old 09-13-2014, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by d.j. View Post
DV


Do you still have the Pana PT-RZ370 ( or was it the 470 ) ? and how is/was it in 3D and what about light output and contrast ?


I did see the new PT-RZ670 ( a almost finish prototype ) yesterday ( a 6000 lumens 1 chip DLP laser projector with WUXGA resolution ) on a 1.0 gain screen and a Supernova ( DNP ) grey screen ( 0.8 gain ? ). Sadly I didnt see it with any 3D, but it looked very good in 2D ,except that it wasnt calibreted and was a lot to cool adjusted.
dj
Yes I still have the Panny PT-RZ470. Its major limitation is on/off contrast -- typical mediocre DLP contrast but, and it is an interesting "but" it has exceptional inter scene contrast of 800:1 (at least according to the AVForum review) and I suspect this figure is accurate -- there's a lot of punch to the image once you add "white".

The 3D is very good and with glasses on the black level isn't an issue. I bought the JVC emitter and I'm using the samsung RF 3D glasses, which I already owned. For some reason my Epson RF 3D glasses don't work with the JVC emitter, yet the Samsung glasses work with the Epson RF emitter.

The ultimate viewing test for 3D in my opinion is to convert 2D into 3D using the Teranex. If your projector doesn't show any signs of ghosting with the Teranex then for all practical purposes it's truly ghost-free. The Panny has no trouble with 3D BD or sbs 3D but it has all kinds of ghosting issues with the Teranex's 3D -- and the Panny is a DLP! My Sharp 30000, Mits 8000 and 7900 have no issues at all with the Teranex. Now the Samsung 3D glasses may be partially to blame but I use them with the Panny for 3D BD and sbs without a problem so who knows. Run the Teranex to the Epson 6010 or 6020 and it's even worse -- a totally unwatchable ghost-fest. I will say this about the Teranex -- if you're into 3D this thing is simply amazing -- one of my favourite HT purchases.

One of the reasons I'm sold on laser and/or led/laser hybrids for HT projectors is the Panny RZ-470 -- it gets used and abused on a daily basis. It's on and off all the time and I don't care -- my wife uses for her Netflik shows and so on. I suspect I've put more hours on it than everything else I own combined.

I don't care if its JVC (apparently it has a laser or laser hybrid coming soon), Epson or Sony. The first to have ghost-free 3D and use a laser or laser/led light source will have my money.
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post #9067 of 9087 Old 09-13-2014, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by millerwill View Post
Yes, I may keep in a while (or will it to my daughter and son-in-law, as Ericglo suggests, to replace my old RS20 they now have), but it's about time for another lamp; I seem to go through about one a year (good thing I'm now emeritus!). Still, a $700 lamp a year is better than a $5-15K pj per yr.

One of the people who seemed to now what he was talking about said that the color space spec that had been agreed upon is Rec 2020. From what I've been reading here, the VW1100 can do the P3 color space, but not the Rec 2020; is that correct?

Millerwill


Yes, but that will probely not be a problem for a very long time, because there are zero movies,tv series or even Tv's, monitors or anything else, who have the colorspace for Rec2020 ! ( Im not even sure thera are any camera´s ? ). I personally think that people "wish thinks" about the much bigger colorspace, and forget it will take ( IMO many ) years to implant.


dj
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post #9068 of 9087 Old 09-13-2014, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
The rush for the upgrade anxiety has come down a few clicks. now I can finish my blackout project and still enjoy some of these cool projectors I have here.


edit: as a reward for my incredible constraint, I am going to treat myself to one of these:

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/FV15HP.html



Z10K


Looks nice, have you heard it ?
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post #9069 of 9087 Old 09-13-2014, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post
Yes I still have the Panny PT-RZ470. Its major limitation is on/off contrast -- typical mediocre DLP contrast but, and it is an interesting "but" it has exceptional inter scene contrast of 800:1 (at least according to the AVForum review) and I suspect this figure is accurate -- there's a lot of punch to the image once you add "white".

The 3D is very good and with glasses on the black level isn't an issue. I bought the JVC emitter and I'm using the samsung RF 3D glasses, which I already owned. For some reason my Epson RF 3D glasses don't work with the JVC emitter, yet the Samsung glasses work with the Epson RF emitter.

The ultimate viewing test for 3D in my opinion is to convert 2D into 3D using the Teranex. If your projector doesn't show any signs of ghosting with the Teranex then for all practical purposes it's truly ghost-free. The Panny has no trouble with 3D BD or sbs 3D but it has all kinds of ghosting issues with the Teranex's 3D -- and the Panny is a DLP! My Sharp 30000, Mits 8000 and 7900 have no issues at all with the Teranex. Now the Samsung 3D glasses may be partially to blame but I use them with the Panny for 3D BD and sbs without a problem so who knows. Run the Teranex to the Epson 6010 or 6020 and it's even worse -- a totally unwatchable ghost-fest. I will say this about the Teranex -- if you're into 3D this thing is simply amazing -- one of my favourite HT purchases.

One of the reasons I'm sold on laser and/or led/laser hybrids for HT projectors is the Panny RZ-470 -- it gets used and abused on a daily basis. It's on and off all the time and I don't care -- my wife uses for her Netflik shows and so on. I suspect I've put more hours on it than everything else I own combined.

I don't care if its JVC (apparently it has a laser or laser hybrid coming soon), Epson or Sony. The first to have ghost-free 3D and use a laser or laser/led light source will have my money.



Thanks DV


I do think about the RZ470 or the new ( big ! ) RZ670 for 3D and more daily basis use and save hours on my other projector.


How much light do the 470 have for 3D calibreted ( I seems to recall that you have a pretty big HP screen !? )


BTW. the 670 had extreme big light output and looked very dynamic and the CR looked very good too, but sadly, I didnt see it in a dark/Black room, so not a completly valid test


dj
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post #9070 of 9087 Old 09-13-2014, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
The rush for the upgrade anxiety has come down a few clicks. now I can finish my blackout project and still enjoy some of these cool projectors I have here.


edit: as a reward for my incredible constraint, I am going to treat myself to one of these:

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/FV15HP.html
As many projects you do throughout the year, I'm surprised that you haven't built 18in or 24in subs. I built one and that 100lb beast is going to destroy my place one day
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post #9071 of 9087 Old 09-13-2014, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
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my current setup is 2 12" subs and the 5 foot mains have twin 10's powered by their own amp. + the buttkickers have kept me somewhat satisfied until recently. I was looking at the Seaton submersive but not sure if I have the room. I can't really hide it so I thought the Rythmic FV15HP might be a good 'plug and play' swap for the current subs.

Do you have a thread where you're discussing the sub you built?


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post #9072 of 9087 Old 09-13-2014, 01:23 PM
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my current setup is 2 12" subs and the 5 foot mains have twin 10's powered by their own amp. + the buttkickers have kept me somewhat satisfied until recently. I was looking at the Seaton submersive but not sure if I have the room. I can't really hide it so I thought the Rythmic FV15HP might be a good 'plug and play' swap for the current subs.

Do you have a thread where you're discussing the sub you built?
I'll pm you the thread when I search for it. I did pm a few members before starting and one of the members lived by me. He sold me some equipment as well as one of his old 18in custom subs. All together it cost me $425 to build. As soon as I buy my house, I will be building 2 more.
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post #9073 of 9087 Old 09-13-2014, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by d.j. View Post
Millerwill


Yes, but that will probely not be a problem for a very long time, because there are zero movies,tv series or even Tv's, monitors or anything else, who have the colorspace for Rec2020 ! ( Im not even sure thera are any camera´s ? ). I personally think that people "wish thinks" about the much bigger colorspace, and forget it will take ( IMO many ) years to implant.


dj
OK, thanks for the info.
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post #9074 of 9087 Old 09-13-2014, 02:50 PM
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Thanks DV


I do think about the RZ470 or the new ( big ! ) RZ670 for 3D and more daily basis use and save hours on my other projector.


How much light do the 470 have for 3D calibreted ( I seems to recall that you have a pretty big HP screen !? )


BTW. the 670 had extreme big light output and looked very dynamic and the CR looked very good too, but sadly, I didnt see it in a dark/Black room, so not a completly valid test


dj
DJ, I used the settings from the PC review of the RZ-430 (720p version of the RZ-470). This review also gives the lumens. I'm not sure of the specific lumens in 3D but it is in the same ballpark as my Sharp 30000.

Here's the link to the PC review:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/pana...ing-Experience

The RZ-670 sure looks interesting at 6000 lumens. Is this thing 3D ready? If so it would sure light up my 120" 2.8 gain HP screen. I'd probably have to wear sunglasses over my 3D glasses. 870 watts -- your monthly hydro bill might be more that what the projector costs!

Here's a link to info on the RZ-670 for anyone interested:

http://translate.google.fr/translate...6000-lumens%2F

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post #9075 of 9087 Old 09-13-2014, 09:57 PM
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Just curious if there is a 3 chip DLP , used of course, that is in the same sort of price and performance range of the JCV X500. Maybe something that would be a good trade.

James Reid:D
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post #9076 of 9087 Old 09-14-2014, 06:10 AM
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Just curious if there is a 3 chip DLP , used of course, that is in the same sort of price and performance range of the JCV X500. Maybe something that would be a good trade.
Here you go:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SIM2-Grand-C...item27eac4120e

If you want 1080p you'll pay considerably more.

Here's a review:

http://www.projectorreviews.com/sim2...w-an-overview/

Here are some more choices:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_saca...ojector&_sac=1

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post #9077 of 9087 Old 09-14-2014, 07:44 AM
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Here you go:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SIM2-Grand-C...item27eac4120e

If you want 1080p you'll pay considerably more.

Here's a review:

http://www.projectorreviews.com/sim2...w-an-overview/

Here are some more choices:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_saca...ojector&_sac=1

Thanks, I see there is a 8000 lumen Christe for 2grand and a few Panasonic's for around 5grand. A PJ that bright in my velvet room with my 115in screen would be something.lol

I love my JVC but I would love to have a DLP light cannon until JVC comes out with a brighter 4K PJ. A trade would be nice.

James Reid:D

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post #9078 of 9087 Old 09-14-2014, 08:00 AM
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Thanks, I see there is a 8000 lumen Christe for 2grand and a few Panasonic's for around 5grand. A PJ that bright in my velvet room with my 115in screen would be something.lol

I love my JVC but I would love to have a DLP light cannon until JVC comes out with a brighter 4K PJ. A trade would be nice.
Get yourself a Da-lite HP 2.8 gain screen -- there used to be some in the classifieds. If it's pulldown just put it in front of your other screen and use it for 3D or 2D when you feel the need. If your projector is ceiling mounted then get a mount with an arm so you can drop the pj closer to head height to retain most of the retro-reflective gain.

This is such an easy and inexpensive solution to all those "not bright enough" complaints -- especially for 3D.
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post #9079 of 9087 Old 09-14-2014, 08:14 AM
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Get yourself a Da-lite HP 2.8 gain screen -- there used to be some in the classifieds. If it's pulldown just put it in front of your other screen and use it for 3D or 2D when you feel the need. If your projector is ceiling mounted then get a mount with an arm so you can drop the pj closer to head height to retain most of the retro-reflective gain.

This is such an easy and inexpensive solution to all those "not bright enough" complaints -- especially for 3D.


My PJ is shelf mounted at vertical centre of the screen and I love my zero texture unity screen. I have gone back and forth on the idea of going with a brighter screen but right now I rather have a brighter projector. I hate to risk introducing sparkles or texture. Besides I have a hard time sticking with the same PJ or TV every year.

James Reid:D

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post #9080 of 9087 Old 09-14-2014, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
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it appears Panasonic is MIA this year with a follow up to the 8000 introduced 2 years ago. I know they are releasing models for other market segments but it looks like they might be done with the HT line.

some info from earlier in the year might have signaled this. My guess is too much competition in this market from Epson/Sony/JVC and it just wasn't profitable to sell the HT projectors.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles...do-sony-falter

Over the past year, however, Chief Executive Officer Kazuhiro Tsuga has engineered a revamp of the Osaka-based company. By getting out of such money-losing businesses and focusing on new ventures, Panasonic is pushing through “essential structural reforms,” says Chief Financial Officer Hideaki Kawai. Tsuga has said that he plans to eliminate unprofitable divisions by March 2016.

RIP Panasonic, Mitsubishi and Sharp from the HT arena. You guys better be nice to Sony, JVC and Epson.


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post #9081 of 9087 Old 09-14-2014, 10:49 AM
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My PJ is shelf mounted at vertical centre of the screen and I love my zero texture unity screen. I have gone back and forth on the idea of going with a brighter screen but right now I rather have a brighter projector. I hate to risk introducing sparkles or texture. Besides I have a hard time sticking with the same PJ or TV every year.

IMO, high gain screens compromise the picture compared to a lower gain ( or no gain ) screen with a high lumen projector, for the very reasons you state. The only thing compromised by a high lumen projector is ( sometimes ) your wallet.

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post #9082 of 9087 Old 09-14-2014, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
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The caveat is that no current model can really light up a large, low gain screen with the same authority as it can in 2D.

I realize the interest in 3D has been faltering so the majority of end users are going to focus on 2D but for the 3D enthusiasts, there's nothing worse than the dim 3D we see in the theater. Squinting in bright scenes with the glasses on is 'just right' for me and even induces a laugh or two once in a while.

There's a number of 3D movies lined up to watch, Godzilla, Captain American 2, Maleficent. If 3D is dead, no one has told hollywood yet. I'm sure there's plenty to go with Disney, Marvel, Pacific Rim2, etc. Some equated this to the 80's flop of 3D, there is no way this is the same. Just watching some of the IMAX documentaries is remarkable such as Kingdom of the Plants and Bugs, Rainforest Adventure are a site to behold.


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post #9083 of 9087 Old 09-14-2014, 12:10 PM
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IMO, high gain screens compromise the picture compared to a lower gain ( or no gain ) screen with a high lumen projector, for the very reasons you state. The only thing compromised by a high lumen projector is ( sometimes ) your wallet.

I would really love to see 2 X500s in a stack with passive 3D . Even just for 2D, contrast and black level might be king, but brightness adds a lot of value to an image.

James Reid:D
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post #9084 of 9087 Old 09-14-2014, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
it appears Panasonic is MIA this year with a follow up to the 8000 introduced 2 years ago. I know they are releasing models for other market segments but it looks like they might be done with the HT line.

some info from earlier in the year might have signaled this. My guess is too much competition in this market from Epson/Sony/JVC and it just wasn't profitable to sell the HT projectors.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles...do-sony-falter

Over the past year, however, Chief Executive Officer Kazuhiro Tsuga has engineered a revamp of the Osaka-based company. By getting out of such money-losing businesses and focusing on new ventures, Panasonic is pushing through “essential structural reforms,” says Chief Financial Officer Hideaki Kawai. Tsuga has said that he plans to eliminate unprofitable divisions by March 2016.

RIP Panasonic, Mitsubishi and Sharp from the HT arena. You guys better be nice to Sony, JVC and Epson.
It doesn't surprise me with Panasonic. The writing has been on the wall for a while and it wouldn't shock me if they quit making even flat panel LEDs at some point.

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post #9085 of 9087 Old 09-14-2014, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
IMO, high gain screens compromise the picture compared to a lower gain ( or no gain ) screen with a high lumen projector, for the very reasons you state. The only thing compromised by a high lumen projector is ( sometimes ) your wallet.
Craig, You'll get my HP screen from me only by prying it from my 'cold, dead hand'! (My fingerprints won't matter then.)

Now if JVC or Sony comes up with a 3000 calibrated-lumen projector (with good CR, etc), that I can afford, I might give it up voluntarily.
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post #9086 of 9087 Old 09-14-2014, 05:38 PM
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Here we go again.

Short of the miracle of an affordable 110" OLED screen, my HP 2.8 isn't going anywhere. I see far fewer issues with the HP than my Draper unity gain or Stewart 1.3 gain Firehawk. I've never regretted buying it, and the prospect of "upgrading" to a low gain screen seems ludicrous to me.

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post #9087 of 9087 Old 09-14-2014, 06:30 PM
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Wow I love how bright my 2.8 Gain is.. makes me kind of melty..

Doug

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