Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 310 - AVS Forum
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post #9271 of 9285 Old 10-19-2014, 01:34 PM
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You just don't understand the point I'm trying to make.
Whatever. Not wort answering.
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post #9272 of 9285 Old 10-19-2014, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Desmond7 View Post
On the Projection Calculator the shortest throw is 16.2 for the JVC and 16 for the Sony on a 159 inch screen. If I shelf mount the JVC or Sony at 17 will I be okay as far as pincushion or any other problems? This will be my first projector, so I want to make sure.
Pincushion is a problem only if using an A-lens and short throw. If you get any pincushion when not using an A-lens, then it is the lens it's self and throw distance does not have anything to do with it. You worry about hot spotting with short throw distance. Though not a problem with an HP screen.

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post #9273 of 9285 Old Yesterday, 05:02 PM
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Thanks for letting me know, Mike. I just need to make up mind between the Sony 55 vs. JVC 4910. For gaming I can always buy a used benq. 1070. Which would you choose if you want the best for 3D blu-rays and watching sports like boxing, football and basketball? I know JVC is better for 2d. Is the JVC almost as good at 3d(if I use the Xpand glasses) and watching sports?
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post #9274 of 9285 Old Yesterday, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Desmond7 View Post
Thanks for letting me know, Mike. I just need to make up mind between the Sony 55 vs. JVC 4910. For gaming I can always buy a used benq. 1070. Which would you choose if you want the best for 3D blu-rays and watching sports like boxing, football and basketball? I know JVC is better for 2d. Is the JVC almost as good at 3d(if I use the Xpand glasses) and watching sports?
I'm not answering for Mike but if you want the best 2D looking image then the JVC is awesome. Hard to beat in that category. The only caveat I've found from my JVC is motion handling. When a movie pans you can really see the judder effect. You get used to it but I wish it wasn't there. Any sport that has a lot of motion to the camera and you'll see the same effect. Football, boxing, baseball, Tennis, golf etc etc where the camera is more stationary won't be too bad but hockey, basketball, soccer and such where the camera moves a lot will be affected.

I don't own the HW55 but do own the HW40. I think the HW55 is probably the best all around projector. It's good at brightness, blacks, motion, video games (low latency) and probably has similar 3D as the JVC (not too sure though). The only caveats for the Sony would be softer looking lens and no automated lens shift and zoom.

So it will come down to what your priorities are. What's important for you. What you're willing to sacrifice and what you're not willing to. If gaming, sports and maybe 3D are a lower priority and 2D is the highest priority, then my vote would be for the JVC. If you want the best of all the categories, then I'd vote for the HW55. Tough decision I know but I can tell you that you'll be really happy with either of those projectors!

edit:

If you went with a two projector set up using the W1070....you could use the BenQ for sports, gaming as well as 3D. It would nicely compliment the JVC

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post #9275 of 9285 Old Today, 12:44 AM
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Seegs108.

I am curious of your conclution after side by side testing the X500, Planar and VW1100??

Regards
Andreas

My Homecinema

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post #9276 of 9285 Old Today, 05:16 AM
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Me too:relaxed:

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post #9277 of 9285 Old Today, 07:46 AM
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Hmm....Both Seegs and Haflich were logged in earlier today .


maybe they are both doing their final write-ups/observations before revealing all.
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post #9278 of 9285 Old Today, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
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I look at this combo all the time - each projector has unique properties depending on the content and room setup. I'm keeping the DC4 Planar 8170 because it's a great reference projector for color, it's excellent out of the box. Then again, so is the VW1100. one can never have enough projectors.



I had a chance to look at another VW600 this weekend. I applied the V1.1 firmware on it and ran through some gaming tests. There is clearly a difference, kudos to Sony for creating this update for the VW500/600. The option is even available in 3D mode as well although 3D gaming seems to have diminished over time.





I'll post some info later on the calibration. Sony should be commended for coming very close to nailing a perfect R709 setting. Saturation tracking is excellent and it also has very low dE's on the full color check test. Grayscale tracking is quite good as well although 10-20 IRE can present a bit of a challenge where 30-90 tracks nearly perfect.

After calibration and running directly against the 1100, I noticed 2 things when you look at them under a microscope. The VW1100 len is overall better and more consistent with focus uniformity. The 600 lens is still very impressive and can clearly resolve 3840x2160 desktops with an 8 point font which is no easy feat. Also when comparing certain scenes with quick moving APL shifts, the 1100 iris is better behaved than the 600. I've seen the 600 move a little too quickly on certain scenes or shut the iris down too much which flattens the image a bit.

again, all things you will only likely see in a direct A/B comparison. The 600 is an impressive projector before even looking at an UHD content on it. The RC scaling looks great with most of my BD content. It also has great lumen output.. 1500+ D65 lumens should become our new standard in fall 2015, I hope JVC can achieve this.
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post #9279 of 9285 Old Today, 09:54 AM
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What is the contrast ratio difference between the Sony 1100 and 600 - and is it noticable when both units are Cal'd at the same light output?

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post #9280 of 9285 Old Today, 10:02 AM
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1500 Calibrated lumen's, wow that is awesome, love to have that power on my X500.

James Reid:D
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post #9281 of 9285 Old Today, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by cardoski View Post
1500 Calibrated lumen's, wow that is awesome, love to have that power on my X500.
Yes, the brightness rocks. Right now my VW600 is brighter than my Lumis. Until I put more hours on the 600 and a new lamp in the Lumis. I love 18 - 20 foot lamberts !!

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post #9282 of 9285 Old Today, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Desmond7 View Post
Thanks for letting me know, Mike. I just need to make up mind between the Sony 55 vs. JVC 4910. For gaming I can always buy a used benq. 1070. Which would you choose if you want the best for 3D blu-rays and watching sports like boxing, football and basketball? I know JVC is better for 2d. Is the JVC almost as good at 3d(if I use the Xpand glasses) and watching sports?
Call me. We rep both. Manufacturer's don't like us recommending one over the other in a public forum.

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post #9283 of 9285 Old Today, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I look at this combo all the time - each projector has unique properties depending on the content and room setup. I'm keeping the DC4 Planar 8170 because it's a great reference projector for color, it's excellent out of the box. Then again, so is the VW1100. one can never have enough projectors.




I had a chance to look at another VW600 this weekend. I applied the V1.1 firmware on it and ran through some gaming tests. There is clearly a difference, kudos to Sony for creating this update for the VW500/600. The option is even available in 3D mode as well although 3D gaming seems to have diminished over time.






I'll post some info later on the calibration. Sony should be commended for coming very close to nailing a perfect R709 setting. Saturation tracking is excellent and it also has very low dE's on the full color check test. Grayscale tracking is quite good as well although 10-20 IRE can present a bit of a challenge where 30-90 tracks nearly perfect.

After calibration and running directly against the 1100, I noticed 2 things when you look at them under a microscope. The VW1100 len is overall better and more consistent with focus uniformity. The 600 lens is still very impressive and can clearly resolve 3840x2160 desktops with an 8 point font which is no easy feat. Also when comparing certain scenes with quick moving APL shifts, the 1100 iris is better behaved than the 600. I've seen the 600 move a little too quickly on certain scenes or shut the iris down too much which flattens the image a bit.

again, all things you will only likely see in a direct A/B comparison. The 600 is an impressive projector before even looking at an UHD content on it. The RC scaling looks great with most of my BD content. It also has great lumen output.. 1500+ D65 lumens should become our new standard in fall 2015, I hope JVC can achieve this.
Zombie


I see you have everything turned to OFF, except Colour Space and Gamma, should one do the same on the 1100?


What is Smooth Graduation and Colour Correction actually doing, I have mine turned on?
Are these adding any artefacts?
I want the image as clean as possible......
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post #9284 of 9285 Old Today, 01:54 PM
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I figured it's time to post my impressions after doing a little comparison at Mark's house over the weekend. I feel most of my opinions fall in line with Kris Deerings. Sorry for the long read:

I had roughly 8 hours of direct viewing on Mark’s Sony VPL-VW1100ES over the past weekend. I used my PC to feed it a 4K (3840 x 2160 24p) image and 90% of the scaling was done with MadVR’s JINC scaler with the anti-ringing filter enabled. The remaining 10% was done with the Sony’s internal scaler for comparison purposes. RC enabled but set to minimum. 90% of the viewing was done the iris set to Auto-Limited, the lamp was in high lamp mode. The remaining 10% was done for comparison purposes with the iris in “auto-full” and manual.

Even with the lamp in “high” mode, the auto-limited DI setting reduced the overall brightness by a considerable amount. Enough so that the JVC in low lamp mode was brighter. The Sony has a lamp with 190 hours and my JVC lamp is newer with 10 hours. The brightness difference was clearly evident. Mark even commented on this I tried Auto-Full mode, which was considerably brighter than the auto-limited, but to my eyes this raised the black floor and apparent contrast to levels no where close to the auto-limited mode.

I also had my DP HIGHlite 260HC with me but of course I forgot my ND filter which I was planning on using if the Sony turned out to be not quite as bright as I thought it would be. This was of course the case so a direct proper comparison (with brightness matched projectors) couldn’t be made. But (and this is my opinion), if I were to put my ND filter in place, the brightness in low lamp mode would have been pretty close. Contrast performance was about 1 or 2 “clicks” better in most scenes. In “dark” content, like in Harry Potter 7, the Sony’s higher native combined with the auto-iris enabled did produce an appreciably better “contrasty-er” image. But nothing I would call a major step up. To be completely honest I wish the image could have been brighter and still reach the same apparent intra-image contrast on screen, but the Sony wasn’t capable of this.

Against the JVC, obviously, it was no contest for contrast. Even Mark blurted out on his own that the JVC easily looked better with darker material. No contest. But then again, I’ve never really see anyone debate this. What’s interesting is that it always seems to be people who own Sony projectors who say this; “Don’t brightness match, you’re crippling the projectors capabilities.” So I decided to play devils advocate here and switch things around. Because the JVC was clearly brighter I wanted to see how this affected colors, sharpness, and overall image quality compared to the Sony. To say the least, on all but rare occasion the JVC clearly had more depth to the image and appeared to have more saturated colors. Mark even commented on the colors looking more saturated on the JVC. I will give the nod to the Sony. It did look sharper and more natural. I also saw a difference in motion in the Sony’s favor, but not by much.

DI performance on the Sony was a little odd. Overall it’s excellent and one I could live with constantly on 100% of the time. But, like the JVC’s iris, it’s slow. Even slower than JVCs. With the content I watched with the Sony, there were many fade to blacks. The JVC handles this astonishingly better. The Sony can actually get pretty close to the JVC with an all black image, but it just takes much longer for it to close down, and then when content comes back on screen, it seems to take too long for the brightness to re-settle. Most people aren’t going to be watching content with a lot of fades to black so no real issue there. I would say this is it’s biggest “flaw”. But again, not a big deal because there really aren’t many times during a movie where you see this kind of content. On occasion it would anticipate, by looking a few frames ahead, and close down in good timing with the fade, but it would always be too slow to open back up. The Sony’s DI is a bit better with mid-APL and brighter content. It’s definitely more “stable” in it’s actions. It feels confident with it’s movements with brighter stuff. To sum it up. JVC’s iris works noticeably better with most darker content, the Sony better with brighter/mid-APL level content. This is of course in general and was the overlying trend of what I saw with most of my viewing. I’m sure there are scenes where one might have the more “appropriate” action which would negate my generality mentioned above, but again, overall what I’ve previously said seems to be true.

I have to say I’m still more impressed with the overall image from the JVC. I say this for one major reason and it’s the one major reason I wanted to demo the 1100ES; I wanted to see how much better than the best DLP’s it is with contrast in lower APL level content. Is it better? Yes and depending on the content it’s much better, but overall, it’s not really that much different than the best DLPs. I’ll put it plainly. Dark content that looks like it should have more contrast on the DLP still looks like it needs more contrast on the Sony too. It’s a simple as that. It just doesn’t have enough extra contrast in most content for me to justify it as “much better” as some others would put it. And for me, personally, I feel the small advantages it has in image sharpness and image naturalness don’t make up enough for the even greater advantage the JVC has over it with contrast. In other words, these strengths (a little extra sharpness and naturalness) are not large enough advantages compared to the much larger visible advantage the JVC has in contrast performance. Brighter scenes may have had a little more “pop” but again, it wasn’t large enough to warrant me to spend six figures on a projector. This is my personal opinion and of course you may disagree with me. You may find in your demo you appreciate these advantages more-so which for you is a justification in buying the Sony over the JVC and that’s perfectly fine. I can already get these advantages with the DLP’s I currently own with roughly equal, in all but the darkest of scenes, contrast performance. Yes, Harry Potter looked better on the Sony compared to the 3-chip DLP, but the difference in contrast between the 1100ES and 260HC was no where near the difference in contrast between the 1100ES and the JVC. As I previously said, even with the advantage the Sony had over the 260HC, both still looked like they needed more contrast for the particularly dark scenes we were watching but yes the Sony looked a little better. If I were able to brightness match with the ND filter which I forgot to bring I’m sure there would have been very little difference. The 260HC also has some quirky gamma settings, which Mark pointed out, that made the 3-Chip look a bit “flat” with brighter material. I’m hoping to get the latest firmware for the projector to see if this remedies the odd out of the box gamma selections. I was able to use MadVR to raise the gamma a bit to compensate this oddity.

I’m glad I got to check out the Sony at Mark’s house. It honestly saved me from spending over $10000 to check one out, which I was about to do. I was in contact with someone and about to pull the trigger before Mark invited me down. Pfew…. I liked the image the 1100ES put out. It was very DLP like in it’s seemingly effortless sharpness and overall naturalness to the image. It’s a bit better with contrast than a good DLp, but honestly not enough for me to justify spending over $10000 on one when the best DLPs are pretty close already and also give the same naturalness and sharpness attributes. Now, we didn’t have time to check out any 4K content, it was all blu-ray so I guess there’s a whole other aspect of the Sony I didn’t get to see, but that wasn’t really why I wanted to see it anyways, so that’s fine with me. One thing I’ve noticed with Sony projectors, and again, with the 1100ES was that yes it could resolve 8-point font as Zombie mentions, but it couldn’t tightly focus down on individual pixels. This gave a more smooth looking pixel structure. I specifically disabled UI scaling in windows to see how well it handled focusing down on pixels and it reminded me of what the VW90ES looked like. The JVC here does it much better, albeit 2 million vs 8 million pixels. I just thought that was odd for the calibre lens on the Sony. Maybe this is a unit to unit thing?
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