Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 310 - AVS Forum
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post #9271 of 9933 Old 10-19-2014, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by uberanalyst View Post
I may just be "lucky" in that I've watched more than a dozen 3D movies and videos on my RS4910 (with Xpand BT glasses/emitter and SMX woven 132" diagonal AT screen) and I very rarely see any ghosting whatsoever.

I suspect the reason we're seeing different things on JVC X500/RS4910 projectors is because of:

1. The amount of screen polarization present, and more importantly...
2. The type of 3D glasses and emitter used.
3. Brightness is a huge factor as well. When I moved from my 1.3 ST130 to my 2.8 HP ghosting became much more apparent and easily noticed. 132" AT screen is not going to produce a very bright 3d image in all due respect and ghosting will simply not be as obvious as someone getting a brighter image.

4. General sensitivity to ghosting in general. Just like any A/V anomaly, some notice ghosting more than others and/or are bothered more than others.

5. Amount of 3d experience. Someone who has watched 100 3d movies vs 10 has more exposure/time involved in 3d viewing in general which could mean being more aware or sensitive to ghosting.

JVC 3D: Been there, done that, bought a DLP

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post #9272 of 9933 Old 10-19-2014, 02:34 PM
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You just don't understand the point I'm trying to make.
Whatever. Not wort answering.
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post #9273 of 9933 Old 10-19-2014, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Desmond7 View Post
On the Projection Calculator the shortest throw is 16.2 for the JVC and 16 for the Sony on a 159 inch screen. If I shelf mount the JVC or Sony at 17 will I be okay as far as pincushion or any other problems? This will be my first projector, so I want to make sure.
Pincushion is a problem only if using an A-lens and short throw. If you get any pincushion when not using an A-lens, then it is the lens it's self and throw distance does not have anything to do with it. You worry about hot spotting with short throw distance. Though not a problem with an HP screen.

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post #9274 of 9933 Old 10-20-2014, 06:02 PM
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Thanks for letting me know, Mike. I just need to make up mind between the Sony 55 vs. JVC 4910. For gaming I can always buy a used benq. 1070. Which would you choose if you want the best for 3D blu-rays and watching sports like boxing, football and basketball? I know JVC is better for 2d. Is the JVC almost as good at 3d(if I use the Xpand glasses) and watching sports?
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post #9275 of 9933 Old 10-20-2014, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desmond7 View Post
Thanks for letting me know, Mike. I just need to make up mind between the Sony 55 vs. JVC 4910. For gaming I can always buy a used benq. 1070. Which would you choose if you want the best for 3D blu-rays and watching sports like boxing, football and basketball? I know JVC is better for 2d. Is the JVC almost as good at 3d(if I use the Xpand glasses) and watching sports?
I'm not answering for Mike but if you want the best 2D looking image then the JVC is awesome. Hard to beat in that category. The only caveat I've found from my JVC is motion handling. When a movie pans you can really see the judder effect. You get used to it but I wish it wasn't there. Any sport that has a lot of motion to the camera and you'll see the same effect. Football, boxing, baseball, Tennis, golf etc etc where the camera is more stationary won't be too bad but hockey, basketball, soccer and such where the camera moves a lot will be affected.

I don't own the HW55 but do own the HW40. I think the HW55 is probably the best all around projector. It's good at brightness, blacks, motion, video games (low latency) and probably has similar 3D as the JVC (not too sure though). The only caveats for the Sony would be softer looking lens and no automated lens shift and zoom.

So it will come down to what your priorities are. What's important for you. What you're willing to sacrifice and what you're not willing to. If gaming, sports and maybe 3D are a lower priority and 2D is the highest priority, then my vote would be for the JVC. If you want the best of all the categories, then I'd vote for the HW55. Tough decision I know but I can tell you that you'll be really happy with either of those projectors!

edit:

If you went with a two projector set up using the W1070....you could use the BenQ for sports, gaming as well as 3D. It would nicely compliment the JVC

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post #9276 of 9933 Old 10-21-2014, 01:44 AM
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Seegs108.

I am curious of your conclution after side by side testing the X500, Planar and VW1100??

Regards
Andreas

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post #9277 of 9933 Old 10-21-2014, 06:16 AM
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Me too:relaxed:

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post #9278 of 9933 Old 10-21-2014, 08:46 AM
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Hmm....Both Seegs and Haflich were logged in earlier today .


maybe they are both doing their final write-ups/observations before revealing all.
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post #9279 of 9933 Old 10-21-2014, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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I look at this combo all the time - each projector has unique properties depending on the content and room setup. I'm keeping the DC4 Planar 8170 because it's a great reference projector for color, it's excellent out of the box. Then again, so is the VW1100. one can never have enough projectors.



I had a chance to look at another VW600 this weekend. I applied the V1.1 firmware on it and ran through some gaming tests. There is clearly a difference, kudos to Sony for creating this update for the VW500/600. The option is even available in 3D mode as well although 3D gaming seems to have diminished over time.





I'll post some info later on the calibration. Sony should be commended for coming very close to nailing a perfect R709 setting. Saturation tracking is excellent and it also has very low dE's on the full color check test. Grayscale tracking is quite good as well although 10-20 IRE can present a bit of a challenge where 30-90 tracks nearly perfect.

After calibration and running directly against the 1100, I noticed 2 things when you look at them under a microscope. The VW1100 len is overall better and more consistent with focus uniformity. The 600 lens is still very impressive and can clearly resolve 3840x2160 desktops with an 8 point font which is no easy feat. Also when comparing certain scenes with quick moving APL shifts, the 1100 iris is better behaved than the 600. I've seen the 600 move a little too quickly on certain scenes or shut the iris down too much which flattens the image a bit.

again, all things you will only likely see in a direct A/B comparison. The 600 is an impressive projector before even looking at an UHD content on it. The RC scaling looks great with most of my BD content. It also has great lumen output.. 1500+ D65 lumens should become our new standard in fall 2015, I hope JVC can achieve this.
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post #9280 of 9933 Old 10-21-2014, 10:54 AM
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What is the contrast ratio difference between the Sony 1100 and 600 - and is it noticable when both units are Cal'd at the same light output?

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post #9281 of 9933 Old 10-21-2014, 11:02 AM
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1500 Calibrated lumen's, wow that is awesome, love to have that power on my X500.

James Reid:D
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post #9282 of 9933 Old 10-21-2014, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by cardoski View Post
1500 Calibrated lumen's, wow that is awesome, love to have that power on my X500.
Yes, the brightness rocks. Right now my VW600 is brighter than my Lumis. Until I put more hours on the 600 and a new lamp in the Lumis. I love 18 - 20 foot lamberts !!

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post #9283 of 9933 Old 10-21-2014, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Desmond7 View Post
Thanks for letting me know, Mike. I just need to make up mind between the Sony 55 vs. JVC 4910. For gaming I can always buy a used benq. 1070. Which would you choose if you want the best for 3D blu-rays and watching sports like boxing, football and basketball? I know JVC is better for 2d. Is the JVC almost as good at 3d(if I use the Xpand glasses) and watching sports?
Call me. We rep both. Manufacturer's don't like us recommending one over the other in a public forum.

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post #9284 of 9933 Old 10-21-2014, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I look at this combo all the time - each projector has unique properties depending on the content and room setup. I'm keeping the DC4 Planar 8170 because it's a great reference projector for color, it's excellent out of the box. Then again, so is the VW1100. one can never have enough projectors.




I had a chance to look at another VW600 this weekend. I applied the V1.1 firmware on it and ran through some gaming tests. There is clearly a difference, kudos to Sony for creating this update for the VW500/600. The option is even available in 3D mode as well although 3D gaming seems to have diminished over time.






I'll post some info later on the calibration. Sony should be commended for coming very close to nailing a perfect R709 setting. Saturation tracking is excellent and it also has very low dE's on the full color check test. Grayscale tracking is quite good as well although 10-20 IRE can present a bit of a challenge where 30-90 tracks nearly perfect.

After calibration and running directly against the 1100, I noticed 2 things when you look at them under a microscope. The VW1100 len is overall better and more consistent with focus uniformity. The 600 lens is still very impressive and can clearly resolve 3840x2160 desktops with an 8 point font which is no easy feat. Also when comparing certain scenes with quick moving APL shifts, the 1100 iris is better behaved than the 600. I've seen the 600 move a little too quickly on certain scenes or shut the iris down too much which flattens the image a bit.

again, all things you will only likely see in a direct A/B comparison. The 600 is an impressive projector before even looking at an UHD content on it. The RC scaling looks great with most of my BD content. It also has great lumen output.. 1500+ D65 lumens should become our new standard in fall 2015, I hope JVC can achieve this.
Zombie


I see you have everything turned to OFF, except Colour Space and Gamma, should one do the same on the 1100?


What is Smooth Graduation and Colour Correction actually doing, I have mine turned on?
Are these adding any artefacts?
I want the image as clean as possible......
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post #9285 of 9933 Old 10-21-2014, 02:54 PM
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I figured it's time to post my impressions after doing a little comparison at Mark's house over the weekend. I feel most of my opinions fall in line with Kris Deerings. Sorry for the long read:

I had roughly 8 hours of direct viewing on Mark’s Sony VPL-VW1100ES over the past weekend. I used my PC to feed it a 4K (3840 x 2160 24p) image and 90% of the scaling was done with MadVR’s JINC scaler with the anti-ringing filter enabled. The remaining 10% was done with the Sony’s internal scaler for comparison purposes. RC enabled but set to minimum. 90% of the viewing was done the iris set to Auto-Limited, the lamp was in high lamp mode. The remaining 10% was done for comparison purposes with the iris in “auto-full” and manual.

Even with the lamp in “high” mode, the auto-limited DI setting reduced the overall brightness by a considerable amount. Enough so that the JVC in low lamp mode was brighter. The Sony has a lamp with 190 hours and my JVC lamp is newer with 10 hours. The brightness difference was clearly evident. Mark even commented on this. I tried Auto-Full mode, which was considerably brighter than the auto-limited, but to my eyes this raised the black floor and apparent contrast to levels no where close to the auto-limited mode.

I also had my DP HIGHlite 260HC with me but of course I forgot my ND filter which I was planning on using if the Sony turned out to be not quite as bright as I thought it would be. This was of course the case so a direct proper comparison (with brightness matched projectors) couldn’t be made. But (and this is my opinion), if I were to put my ND filter in place, the brightness in low lamp mode would have been pretty close. Contrast performance was about 1 or 2 “clicks” better in most scenes. In “dark” content, like in Harry Potter 7, the Sony’s higher native combined with the auto-iris enabled did produce an appreciably better “contrasty-er” image. But nothing I would call a major step up. To be completely honest I wish the image could have been brighter and still reach the same apparent intra-image contrast on screen, but the Sony wasn’t capable of this.

Against the JVC, obviously, it was no contest for contrast. Even Mark blurted out on his own that the JVC easily looked better with darker material. No contest. But then again, I’ve never really see anyone debate this. What’s interesting is that it always seems to be people who own Sony projectors who say this; “Don’t brightness match, you’re crippling the projectors capabilities.” So I decided to play devils advocate here and switch things around. Because the JVC was clearly brighter I wanted to see how this affected colors, sharpness, and overall image quality compared to the Sony. To say the least, on all but rare occasion the JVC clearly had more depth to the image and appeared to have more saturated colors. Mark even commented on the colors looking more saturated on the JVC. I will give the nod to the Sony as it did look sharper and more natural. I also saw a difference in motion in the Sony’s favor, but not by much.

DI performance on the Sony was a little odd. Overall it’s excellent and one I could live with constantly on 100% of the time. But, like the JVC’s iris, it’s slow. Even slower than JVCs. With the content I watched with the Sony, there were many fade to blacks. The JVC handles this astonishingly better. The Sony can actually get pretty close to the JVC with an all black image, but it just takes much longer for it to close down, and then when content comes back on screen, it seems to take too long for the brightness to re-settle. Most people aren’t going to be watching content with a lot of fades to black so no real issue there. I would say this is it’s biggest “flaw”. But again, not a big deal because there really aren’t many times during a movie where you see this kind of content. On occasion it would anticipate, by looking a few frames ahead, and close down in good timing with the fade, but it would always be too slow to open back up. The Sony’s DI is a bit better with mid-APL and brighter content. It’s definitely more “stable” in it’s actions. It feels confident with it’s movements with brighter stuff. To sum it up. JVC’s iris works noticeably better with most darker content, the Sony better with brighter/mid-APL level content. This is of course in general and was the overlying trend of what I saw with most of my viewing. I’m sure there are scenes where one might have the more “appropriate” action which would negate my generality mentioned above, but again, overall what I’ve previously said seems to be true.

I have to say I’m still more impressed with the overall image from the JVC. I say this for one major reason and it’s the one major reason I wanted to demo the 1100ES; I wanted to see how much better than the best DLP’s it is with contrast in lower APL level content. Is it better? Yes and depending on the content it’s much better, but overall, it’s not really that much different than the best DLPs. I’ll put it plainly. Dark content that looks like it should have more contrast on the DLP still looks like it needs more contrast on the Sony too. It’s a simple as that. It just doesn’t have enough extra contrast in most content for me to justify it as “much better” as some others would put it. And for me, personally, I feel the small advantages it has in image sharpness and image naturalness don’t make up enough for the even greater advantage the JVC has over it with contrast. In other words, these strengths (a little extra sharpness and naturalness) are not large enough advantages compared to the much larger visible advantage the JVC has in contrast performance. Brighter scenes may have had a little more “pop” but again, it wasn’t large enough to warrant me to spend six figures on a projector. This is my personal opinion and of course you may disagree with me. You may find in your demo you appreciate these advantages more-so which for you is a justification in buying the Sony over the JVC and that’s perfectly fine. I can already get these advantages with the DLP’s I currently own with roughly equal, in all but the darkest of scenes, contrast performance. Yes, Harry Potter looked better on the Sony compared to the 3-chip DLP, but the difference in contrast between the 1100ES and 260HC was no where near the difference in contrast between the 1100ES and the JVC. As I previously said, even with the advantage the Sony had over the 260HC, both still looked like they needed more contrast for the particularly dark scenes we were watching but yes the Sony looked a little better. If I were able to brightness match with the ND filter which I forgot to bring I’m sure there would have been very little difference. The 260HC also has some quirky gamma settings, which Mark pointed out, that made the 3-Chip look a bit “flat” with brighter material. I’m hoping to get the latest firmware for the projector to see if this remedies the odd out of the box gamma selections. I was able to use MadVR to raise the gamma a bit to compensate this oddity.

I’m glad I got to check out the Sony at Mark’s house. It honestly saved me from spending over $10000 to check one out, which I was about to do. I was in contact with someone and about to pull the trigger before Mark invited me down. Pfew…. I liked the image the 1100ES put out. It was very DLP like in it’s seemingly effortless sharpness and overall naturalness to the image. It’s a bit better with contrast than a good DLp, but honestly not enough for me to justify spending over $10000 on one when the best DLPs are pretty close already and also give the same naturalness and sharpness attributes. Now, we didn’t have time to check out any 4K content, it was all blu-ray so I guess there’s a whole other aspect of the Sony I didn’t get to see, but that wasn’t really why I wanted to see it anyways, so that’s fine with me. One thing I’ve noticed with Sony projectors, and again, with the 1100ES was that yes it could resolve 8-point font as Zombie mentions, but it couldn’t tightly focus down on individual pixels. This gave a more smooth looking pixel structure. I specifically disabled UI scaling in windows to see how well it handled focusing down on pixels and it reminded me of what the VW90ES looked like. The JVC here does it much better, albeit 2 million vs 8 million pixels. I just thought that was odd for the calibre lens on the Sony. Maybe this is a unit to unit thing?

Last edited by Seegs108; 10-21-2014 at 03:02 PM.
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post #9286 of 9933 Old 10-21-2014, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post




Even with the lamp in “high” mode, the auto-limited DI setting reduced the overall brightness by a considerable amount. Enough so that the JVC in low lamp mode was brighter. The Sony has a lamp with 190 hours and my JVC lamp is newer with 10 hours. The brightness difference was clearly evident. Mark even commented on this. I tried Auto-Full mode, which was considerably brighter than the auto-limited, but to my eyes this raised the black floor and apparent contrast to levels no where close to the auto-limited mode.
When you went across to Auto-Full Iris on the 1100 after using Auto-Limited, did you redo Brightness and Contrast with the Spears & Munsil disc?


This must be done between using Auto-Limited and Auto-Full as they both produce very different Contrast/Brightness settings....
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post #9287 of 9933 Old 10-21-2014, 03:57 PM
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Great write up Dylan, thx for taking the time, and I know from being a member here for almost a decade that when you try to give your thoughts on gear that someone is always gonna rip ya apart especially the folks that own the gear your talking about.

Anyways good info and hopefully mark will post his thoughts soon


Bob
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post #9288 of 9933 Old 10-21-2014, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
When you went across to Auto-Full Iris on the 1100 after using Auto-Limited, did you redo Brightness and Contrast with the Spears & Munsil disc?


This must be done between using Auto-Limited and Auto-Full as they both produce very different Contrast/Brightness settings....

Mark has the projector calibrated and normally uses auto-full because it's much brighter which is good for the type of content he watches (sports). I don't think we changed the brightness and contrast settings going back and forth. We did play around with a few different gamma settings, RC at different levels, and a few other odds and ends in the menu system.

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post #9289 of 9933 Old 10-21-2014, 04:15 PM
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What I find strange is that we see things so totally different and I find it very strange that you find the JVC to have more depth to the picture than the Sony, this is one of the biggerst differences (toghether with sharpness and dynamics) we see in favour of the Sony here even when the projectors is brightness matched. Of course the JVC had better depth in low APL scenes, but the Sony clearly has more depth in mid to high APL scenes. I can also easy set the focus on mine and my friends VW1100 and thightly focus down on individual pixels and this is at 16x9 and 100-110" screen. I always use Auto Full with my 1100 as this gives me more in amost all scenes and I like bright pictures, the only thing I think Auto Limited gives is slightly lower blacks. But it takes away so much positives in the VW1100 picture that I always use Auto Full. And putting it on Auto Limited in high lamp is about the same as putting it in low lamp with Auto Full when it comes to brightness, so if your JVC was brighter in low mode I find this strange. With the X500 with a new lamp and almost 1000 hours on the VW1000 we could brightness match them when putting the X500 in high lamp and VW1000 in high lamp, with both with new lamps we needed to put the Sony in low and JVC in high and they where almost matced.

I respect you views, but I find it strange we see thing so different.

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post #9290 of 9933 Old 10-21-2014, 04:20 PM
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Really amazing that much cheaper JVC can hang with the Sony, thanks for taking the time to write your thoughts Seegs108.

James Reid:D
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post #9291 of 9933 Old 10-21-2014, 04:24 PM - Thread Starter
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I think most people are cordial on the forum, they are certainly entitled to their own opinions and a number of other 1100 owners have seen or owned other high end equipment.

also put this into some perspective. The JVC simply cannot light up the same size screen that the 1100 is capable of. Mark's screen is relatively small @ 110", many 1100 owners (and higher end DLP's) are running larger screens that the JVC will not be able to handle.

in addition, how many people come across great deals on 3 chip DLP's. most will be spending a good amount near or potentially exceeding the cost of the Sony.
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post #9292 of 9933 Old 10-21-2014, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ultra 150 pilot View Post
Great write up Dylan, thx for taking the time, and I know from being a member here for almost a decade that when you try to give your thoughts on gear that someone is always gonna rip ya apart especially the folks that own the gear your talking about.

Anyways good info and hopefully mark will post his thoughts soon


Bob
I asked Mark what he thought of the comparison and he liked the Sony better than the 260HC. He thought that the Sony had better depth to the image and I agreed with him. Though some of this was because it had a funky gamma curve setup. Once I compensated for that with MadVR the difference wasn't a stark as was before.

I don't want to put word's into Mark's mouth so I'll only repeat what he said when we were both in the same room. He likes his Sony better than the JVC because of the strengths I mentioned in my previous comparison post. It's a tad sharper in appearance and the image is more natural. He didn't mention much past that. Maybe he'll chime in with something more in-depth? And remember guys, the "comparison" we did was very informal and not scientific at all. We simply watched the same 4 or 5 clips on all three projectors and made slight adjustments to try and get each to shine in it's own best light. Pun intended...

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post #9293 of 9933 Old 10-21-2014, 04:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cardoski View Post
Really amazing that much cheaper JVC can hang with the Sony
this must be put into context regarding screen size. The JVC's cannot handle a large screen the same way as the Sony (A 110" is not large). Hopefully this will change in the fall, they need to increase their lumen output considering the VW600 can do 1500+ in the same size chassis as a JVC.

also, the projectors should have a good gamma calibration for a comparison.
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post #9294 of 9933 Old 10-21-2014, 04:28 PM
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I can also easy set the focus on mine and my friends VW1100 and thightly focus down on individual pixels and this is at 16x9 and 100-110" screen.

I respect you views, but I find it strange we see thing so different.

I have my Focus, Zoom and Shift set up on RS232 and operate it through the ipad, this way its fantastic to use it. Its sooo accurate and takes many many clicks to focus the image, this way one gets a PERFECT focus easily.


When using just the remote it so easy to overshoot and one has to go back and forward many times to get an accurate focus.


Try it guys you will love it!
Focus/Zoom and Shift on my 1100 is now a real dream to use via RS232.
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post #9295 of 9933 Old 10-21-2014, 04:31 PM
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this must be put into context regarding screen size. The JVC's cannot handle a large screen the same way as the Sony (A 110" is not large). Hopefully this will change in the fall, they need to increase their lumen output considering the VW600 can do 1500+ in the same size chassis as a JVC.

Bingo!


JVC has a beautiful picture but still no match for guys with large screens 140" + diag. Only the 500/1100 can suit us with large screens.


As I always say, one needs to choose the projector to match the room and screen. There is no projector that's better than the rest in all situations...


I say if you have a small screen go with a JVC, large Sony.
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post #9296 of 9933 Old 10-21-2014, 04:34 PM
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I think most people are cordial on the forum, they are certainly entitled to their own opinions and a number of other 1100 owners have seen or owned other high end equipment.

also put this into some perspective. The JVC simply cannot light up the same size screen that the 1100 is capable of. Mark's screen is relatively small @ 110", many 1100 owners (and higher end DLP's) are running larger screens that the JVC will not be able to handle.

in addition, how many people come across great deals on 3 chip DLP's. most will be spending a good amount near or potentially exceeding the cost of the Sony.
If you read what Seegs108 says here the JVC was brighter in low than the Sony in high with Auto Limited, I find this to be strange as it shold be the opposite. The JVC would need to be in high to match the Sony in high with Auto Limited even if the Sony had 190 hours on it. My friend DJ Dee who ownes both the X500 and VW1100 uses his VW1100 in low and the JVC in high and with the current lamps on them the Sony is slightly brighter in low compared to the JVC in high, both with around 100-150 hours on the lamp.

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post #9297 of 9933 Old 10-21-2014, 04:36 PM
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What I find strange is that we see things so totally different and I find it very strange that you find the JVC to have more depth to the picture than the Sony, this is one of the biggerst differences (toghether with sharpness and dynamics) we see in favour of the Sony here even when the projectors is brightness matched. Of course the JVC had better depth in low APL scenes, but the Sony clearly has more depth in mid to high APL scenes. I can also easy set the focus on mine and my friends VW1100 and thightly focus down on individual pixels and this is at 16x9 and 100-110" screen. I always use Auto Full with my 1100 as this gives me more in amost all scenes and I like bright pictures, the only thing I think Auto Limited gives is slightly lower blacks. But it takes away so much positives in the VW1100 picture that I always use Auto Full. And putting it on Auto Limited in high lamp is about the same as putting it in low lamp with Auto Full when it comes to brightness, so if your JVC was brighter in low mode I find this strange. With the X500 with a new lamp and almost 1000 hours on the VW1000 we could brightness match them when putting the X500 in high lamp and VW1000 in high lamp, with both with new lamps we needed to put the Sony in low and JVC in high and they where almost matced.

I respect you views, but I find it strange we see thing so different.
Remember though, that my main interest with the 1100ES was to see what it looked like with lower APL level content stuff so using the auto-limited mode really put the Sony in the best position to show off this material. On Mark's small-ish screen (about 8 feet wide iirc) auto-limited was still bright enough for regular content. The JVC was simply brighter because when it's DI is on it doesn't have to close itself down to get "great" contrast performance like the Sony has to do. I just felt for the type of content we were watching (dark) the auto-full mode made darker scenes look too "flat" whereas the auto-limited mode gave more apparent contrast in these scenes.

Mark can comment on the brightness difference between the two while in the modes we were using. The JVC was clearly brighter to me. It was brighter than the JVC while in Auto-Full mode though. So even though that may take away some of the strengths the Sony may have, because I wanted to see what it was full capable of doing with contrast performance I had to make those sacrifices to get the Sony there. It's unfortunate that's what you have to sacrifice then to get the most contrast out of the Sony. Again, Mark can make some comments on this if he feels like it.

I did truly and honestly enjoy watching the Sony. But for the content I watch (movies and TV Shows) I think the JVC is better suited for that kind of material granted you have the right screen size to use it on. The Sony can do a larger screen if you use the Auto-Full mode but contrast will take a hit in lower APL scenes.

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post #9298 of 9933 Old 10-21-2014, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
Bingo!


JVC has a beautiful picture but still no match for guys with large screens 140" + diag. Only the 500/1100 can suit us with large screens.


As I always say, one needs to choose the projector to match the room and screen. There is no projector that's better than the rest in all situations...


I say if you have a small screen go with a JVC, large Sony.
I have done most comparisons on a "small" 110" screen at my friends house and find the Sony to be best at 90% of the material. In my own house I have a 3m wide 2.35:1 screen and need more light when watching 2.35:1 matreial and the results are the same. The JVC is better in very dark scenes the Sony is best at the rest. THe Sony VW1100 is far from a perfect projector and it is not better than the rest in all situations, but I find it to be the closest to "perfect" of all the projectors I have seen ( and I have seen many the last years) and it suits my needs even with dark sci fi (I rearly watch horror) movies I find it better than the JVC on most parts and that is why I don´t have more than one projector in my HT. If I found the JVC to be better with dark sci fi movies witch I love I would definetly have a to PJ setup and one of them would be a X500.

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post #9299 of 9933 Old 10-21-2014, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Bingo!


JVC has a beautiful picture but still no match for guys with large screens 140" + diag. Only the 500/1100 can suit us with large screens.


As I always say, one needs to choose the projector to match the room and screen. There is no projector that's better than the rest in all situations...


I say if you have a small screen go with a JVC, large Sony.
double bingo, these are different projectors for different setups. It would be ideal to have the JVC with 4K native + keep native contrast the same + 1500 lumens + a good lens, they will have people lining up in the streets like an iphone release.

to answer your question earlier, I keep these settings off, I can provide more details later tonight.

when you run auto-iris full, it's important to adjust the black level adjustment to medium. I found it will create posterization and crush blacks with it turned off, it must have something to do with the dynamic gamma as it does not occur with limited, manual or off. A few people discussed this a while back in the 1000 thread. I don't think you would see it with sports, HDTV or most movies, but I can definitely see it in Oblivion and a number of other movies as well.
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post #9300 of 9933 Old 10-21-2014, 04:51 PM
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Remember though, that my main interest with the 1100ES was to see what it looked like with lower APL level content stuff so using the auto-limited mode really put the Sony in the best position to show off this material. On Mark's small-ish screen (about 8 feet wide iirc) auto-limited was still bright enough for regular content. The JVC was simply brighter because when it's DI is on it doesn't have to close itself down to get "great" contrast performance like the Sony has to do. I just felt for the type of content we were watching (dark) the auto-full mode made darker scenes look too "flat" whereas the auto-limited mode gave more apparent contrast in these scenes.

Mark can comment on the brightness difference between the two while in the modes we were using. The JVC was clearly brighter to me. It was brighter than the JVC while in Auto-Full mode though. So even though that may take away some of the strengths the Sony may have, because I wanted to see what it was full capable of doing with contrast performance I had to make those sacrifices to get the Sony there. It's unfortunate that's what you have to sacrifice then to get the most contrast out of the Sony. Again, Mark can make some comments on this if he feels like it.

I did truly and honestly enjoy watching the Sony. But for the content I watch (movies and TV Shows) I think the JVC is better suited for that kind of material granted you have the right screen size to use it on. The Sony can do a larger screen if you use the Auto-Full mode but contrast will take a hit in lower APL scenes.
Ok, I understand if you only looked at dark material. But why did you do that, you know the JVC would be better with that???

And you say looked brighter, did you not bring your lux meter? And was not all three projectors calibrated to the same standards?? The Sony with a new lamp and JVC with a new lamp, the Sony is about 40% brighter than the JVC. So if the JVC was brighter in low mode the Sony lamp must have dropped alot in 190 hours. This happened to my last lamp it dropped 40% in 200 hours and I got a replacement from Sony, my current lamp has only dropped 10% in 200+ hours.

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