Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 316 - AVS Forum
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post #9451 of 9804 Old 10-23-2014, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Dj Dee View Post
The test you clamed, good that you admit that it was non sence. Because it was....I hope that people can see this for themselves and stop listening to you.
End of story. I'm off
Me too. I'll do the same for your posts from now on. Thanks

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post #9452 of 9804 Old 10-23-2014, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

As far as the DNP and artifacts, I believe I saw some of the earliest light rejecting stuff from them and had some good talks with one of the designers. I pointed out artifacts that I saw and he told me that was speckling and I wasn't supposed to be able to see it, but I did even from a reasonable distance. At a tradeshow maybe a year or two later I saw a DNP screen with a DLP (maybe 3 chip) and it looked much better. The artifacts I had seen on the early stuff weren't there and it looked good out on the show floor.

I wonder if DNP would send out a sample at least.

--Darin
The various DNP samples I have LOOK like they would suffer very visible hotspotting/uniformity issues as well as some texture artifacts. It's really hard to tell for sure without a full screen. However, I remember there being some saying "the screen has no hot-spotting" and then a calibrator saying "yeah, just calibrated on one...it hot-spots." Which is very similar in discussions about all the gray screens with gain. For every such screen there have always been "there is no hot-spotting/no screen texture" proponents, and yet every single time I've tested those screens out the hot-spotting/texture has been very apparent. Which is why I NEVER rely on other people's reports about screens. I would always have to see one myself before buying.
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post #9453 of 9804 Old 10-23-2014, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
The various DNP samples I have LOOK like they would suffer very visible hotspotting/uniformity issues as well as some texture artifacts. It's really hard to tell for sure without a full screen.
I agree by eye. For the hotspotting a person with a luminance meter (points at the screen) could put the sample in different locations and measure them to get some idea of the differences at those same spots with a full screen.

Less than 30% dropoff from center to corner is unlikely to really be noticed and different people will have different thresholds of annoyance, but the measurements can give some idea without actually getting a full sized screen.

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
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post #9454 of 9804 Old 10-23-2014, 03:22 PM
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Can you explain how that would work, since as far as I know it's not technically possible. A screen (an accurate one anyway) merely reflects back the image from the projector, hence it can not improve the contrast of the projected image in the way you seem to describe. All screens (all accurate screens) do this. A screen can't reflect a greater contrast ratio than it's receiving, can't selectively reflect less light for the dark parts of the image and more light for the bright parts, which is what your claim implies here. (Which would also imply a distortion of the image if it were occurring; perhaps a screen that significantly alters color balance could give the impression of higher contrast, e.g. skewing toward blue, making white levels appear brighter to the eye?)

I had originally thought I would go for a gray based screen with gain for my set up because I'd read so many people talking about how it "makes the black levels/contrast better" of the image. As I learned more, I found out such claims were ignorant about how screens actually work. I have seen the JVC projectors I own on various gray-based screens, including the Stewart Firehawk, SI Black Diamond .8 and 1.4 gain screens, and I have large samples of the DNP material. Once I achieved a high level of control over reflected light the image, I have never seen greater contrast than I get using a white screen ST-130 screen material.

I have to say the DNP material is a fascinating design, it's optical coating meant to reject light mostly from above and below, not so much from the sides. But when you look at the material from overhead, it turns almost black!
But...I do essentially the same thing in terms of controlling light reflection using white screen, by using black velvet above and below the screen.
I am getting tired of people questioning what I see everytime I say something on this forum. And you have to ask dnp about this, I only tell what I see and dont know the technical sides of the optical layers of this screen. It does not hotspot if you use it at the right throw distance. It is also possible to measure, but I have not done that. And it has a much more dynamic look than a normal white and normal gray screen!! I has no texture and close to no sparkles, the ST130 has alot more sparkles. And I have already written about the negative sides, and I have two full screens of this material and have had them for close to two years, one 100" 16x9 and one 128" 2.35:1 screen. The screen is also D65 neutral and does not drag to any color like the Black Diamond with goes alot towards blue.

My calibrator actually ownes one and when he can wouch for it it is good enough.

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post #9455 of 9804 Old 10-23-2014, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post
I agree by eye. For the hotspotting a person with a luminance meter (points at the screen) could put the sample in different locations and measure them to get some idea of the differences at those same spots with a full screen.

Less than 30% dropoff from center to corner is unlikely to really be noticed and different people will have different thresholds of annoyance, but the measurements can give some idea without actually getting a full sized screen.

--Darin
If you do the same but facing the projector what happens??

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post #9456 of 9804 Old 10-23-2014, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Dj Dee View Post
The test you clamed, good that you admit that it was non sence. Because it was....I hope that people can see this for themselves and stop listening to you.
End of story. I'm off
Me too. I'll do the same for your posts from now on. Thanks
You have done that from the start. Never listen to anyone. Because you know everything.
Keep up the good work.
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post #9457 of 9804 Old 10-23-2014, 03:38 PM
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The two very small negatives is outweighed by the positives, it gives you alot deeper blacklevel and almost the same whitelevel as a 1.0 gain screen and it gives you a much more dynamic picture.
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I am getting tired of people questioning what I see everytime I say something on this forum.
You can get tired of people questioning something you claim as fact as much as you want, but this the AV Science forum. If you can't handle people wanting the actual truth about the physics that is your problem.

If you don't have enough technical knowledge about some basic rules of physics it isn't other people's fault and IMO you shouldn't be so touchy if you make a claim like above and then can't address it. This isn't about asking DNP as they don't get to violate physics.

Quick question. If the gain from the DNP is 0.8 gain for a full white (video 235) screen, what do you think the gain is for a black (video 16) screen?

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
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post #9458 of 9804 Old 10-23-2014, 03:49 PM
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I am getting tired of people questioning what I see everytime I say something on this forum.
Sorry, my intent wasn't to pester you. It's just that, if I understand screen technology correctly (and I'm pretty sure I do) then what you described is improbable, if not impossible. Since this is AVScience, many of us are here to understand how technology works, so an extraordinary claim about a screen material producing more contrast than a white screen is going to stick out to anyone who knows something about how screens work.

You may well have percieved that the DNP image looks more contrasty and punchy, but the issue is to what can we ascribe that perception? It's been a very common theme that people looking at gray screens, especially gray screens with gain, that they percieve a lower black floor and/or higher contrast, and they attribute that to some inherent contrast enhancing characteristic of the screen, rather to how the screen is simply combating room reflections better than a white screen. Surely you can't fault us for wanting to understand these things, and if a screen material actually COULD increase the contrast of a projected image I sure as heck would want to be aware of it.

Re-visiting the DNP web site, all their technical discussion of their screens revolves around maintaining contrast in situations with ambient light (or reflective rooms) - pretty standard for any gray screen with gain; I see nothing making extraordinary claims of the screen itself increasing image contrast, as if it would produce a higher contrast image than a neutral gain white screen in controlled lighting conditions, which is what you seemed to be suggesting.

So it's just that, unless there is something revolutionary going on with the DNP screen, not even mentioned on their own web site, then writing a claim like this "it gives you alot deeper black level and almost the same whitelevel as a 1.0 gain screen and it gives you a much more dynamic picture."..., sorry to say, quite misleading for people who don't know any better. And a claim like that is going to be noticed on a forum of AV-technology enthusiasts. It's not a moral failing I'm pointing out on your part; we just try to make sure we understand how AV technology actually works around here.
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post #9459 of 9804 Old 10-23-2014, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post
You can get tired of people questioning something you claim as fact as much as you want, but this the AV Science forum. If you can't handle people wanting the actual truth about the physics that is your problem.

If you don't have enough technical knowledge about some basic rules of physics it isn't other people's fault and IMO you shouldn't be so touchy if you make a claim like above and then can't address it. This isn't about asking DNP as they don't get to violate physics.

Quick question. If the gain from the DNP is 0.8 gain for a full white (video 235) screen, what do you think the gain is for a black (video 16) screen?

--Darin
I can not give you the techincal side of the optical layers of this screen and I see it clearly, but since you say it is impossible it must be so there has to be something wrong with me and my eyes. Send a mail to dnp and maby they will answer your question. I only tell what I see and since I don´t work for dnp I can not give you a AVScience answer.

And I must ask you, have you ever seen the 08-85 compared to a 1.0 gain screen in the same room with the same projector? If not don´t bother! Even if it you say it is impossible it clearly showes a much more dynamic picture than the 1.0 screen in a batcave with almost 0 reflections and 100% lightcontrol, even more in a room with white walls and ceiling. And that is what I see and I can provide a picture of it if you want??

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post #9460 of 9804 Old 10-23-2014, 03:59 PM
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Sorry, my intent wasn't to pester you. It's just that, if I understand screen technology correctly (and I'm pretty sure I do) then what you described is improbable, if not impossible. Since this is AVScience, many of us are here to understand how technology works, so an extraordinary claim about a screen material producing more contrast than a white screen is going to stick out to anyone who knows something about how screens work.

You may well have percieved that the DNP image looks more contrasty and punchy, but the issue is to what can we ascribe that perception? It's been a very common theme that people looking at gray screens, especially gray screens with gain, that they percieve a lower black floor and/or higher contrast, and they attribute that to some inherent contrast enhancing characteristic of the screen, rather to how the screen is simply combating room reflections better than a white screen. Surely you can't fault us for wanting to understand these things, and if a screen material actually COULD increase the contrast of a projected image I sure as heck would want to be aware of it.

Re-visiting the DNP web site, all their technical discussion of their screens revolves around maintaining contrast in situations with ambient light (or reflective rooms) - pretty standard for any gray screen with gain; I see nothing making extraordinary claims of the screen itself increasing image contrast, as if it would produce a higher contrast image than a neutral gain white screen in controlled lighting conditions, which is what you seemed to be suggesting.

So it's just that, unless there is something revolutionary going on with the DNP screen, not even mentioned on their own web site, then writing a claim like this "it gives you alot deeper black level and almost the same whitelevel as a 1.0 gain screen and it gives you a much more dynamic picture."..., sorry to say, quite misleading for people who don't know any better. And a claim like that is going to be noticed on a forum of AV-technology enthusiasts. It's not a moral failing I'm pointing out on your part; we just try to make sure we understand how AV technology actually works around here.
I also think I know how things work, but in the case of the dnp I don´t know the science behind the 7 different optical layers on the screen. And since I don´t I can only tell you what I see and several people have seen the same in my HT when testing with a 1.0 gain screen side by side with the dnp. Ok??

A normal gray 0.8 gain screen side by side with the dnp looks even more dull than a white 1.0 gain. And yes I have tested that also.

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post #9461 of 9804 Old 10-23-2014, 04:00 PM
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I'd have to find out if my buddies shop was using the 08-85 in his room or not. He had a DNP Supernova in there for quite some time though and the artifacts from it were pretty bad. Texture, sparkles, and hot spotting were noticeable without any real effort. I have a Studiotek 100 and texture and hot spotting are non-existant. There is the absolute slightest amount of sheen if you really look for it in the brightest areas but even compared to the ST130 I had before it is BARELY there at best. Most probably wouldn't notice it unless I pointed it out.
That would be what is now called the 23-23 material. The 08-85 material throws a very nice image. I do not see any artifacts from it. Also black bars are much harder to see on this screen.
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post #9462 of 9804 Old 10-23-2014, 04:04 PM
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I can not give you the techincal side of the optical layers of this screen and I see it clearly, but since you say it is impossible it must be so there has to be something wrong with me and my eyes. Send a mail to dnp and they will answer your question. I only tell what I see and since I don´t work for dnp I can not give you a AVScience answer.

And I must ask you, have you ever seen the 08-85 compared to a 1.0 gain screen in the same room with the same projector? If not don´t bother! Even if it you say it is impossible it clearly showes a much more dynamic picture than the 1.0 screen in a batcave with almos 0 reflections, even more in a room with white walls and ceiling. And that is what I see and I can provide a picture of it if you want??
I did not say it was impossible and have not seen them in the same room with the same projector. I would definitely like to.

We could get into some of the science, but you don't want to be asked questions when you make a statement and I don't feel that inclined to spoon feed somebody with a certain attitude that seems to value their ego over the science.

Can you really not answer this question:

Quick question. If the gain from the DNP is 0.8 gain for a full white (video 235) screen, what do you think the gain is for a black (video 16) screen?

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
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post #9463 of 9804 Old 10-23-2014, 04:18 PM
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I did not say it was impossible and have not seen them in the same room with the same projector. I would definitely like to.

We could get into some of the science, but you don't want to be asked questions when you make a statement and I don't feel that inclined to spoon feed somebody with a certain attitude that seems to value their ego over the science.

Can you really not answer this question:

Quick question. If the gain from the DNP is 0.8 gain for a full white (video 235) screen, what do you think the gain is for a black (video 16) screen?

--Darin
I have already said I don´t know the technical side of this screen and since I don´t I will not try to do it?? Ok?

And the answer to your question would be 0.8, but it does not look that way to the eyes. Why I can not answer and I only tell you what I see and it is clearly more dynamic than a normal 0.8 gray screen and 1.0 white screen.

I know you think I am stupid and have no clue about anything and I really don´t care about that.

And why don´t you answer my questions??

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post #9464 of 9804 Old 10-23-2014, 04:40 PM
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I know you think I am stupid and have no clue about anything and I really don´t care about that.
I think you know certain things (just like everybody else) and I also think we are all ignorant about some things. When some people don't understand something they get all touchy and basically try to stop the conversation while others try to actually learn something. I think the latter group tends to become more knowledgeable over time.
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And why don´t you answer my questions??
What questions are those? If you mean the one about facing the projector I didn't answer because I wasn't sure what you were asking or if you were joking. Were you asking what happens if the luminance meter is facing the projector? Or something else?

Did I skip a different question? If it was the one about the picture, that would be pretty useless IMO, although we could discuss why it would be useless. It would probably be obvious if we discussed what screens can do and can't do without violating phyics.

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post #9465 of 9804 Old 10-23-2014, 04:57 PM
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I think you know certain things (just like everybody else) and I also think we are all ignorant about some things. When some people don't understand something they get all touchy and basically try to stop the conversation while others try to actually learn something. I think the latter group tends to become more knowledgeable over time.
What questions are those? If you mean the one about facing the projector I didn't answer because I wasn't sure what you were asking or if you were joking. Were you asking what happens if the luminance meter is facing the projector? Or something else?

Did I skip a different question? If it was the one about the picture, that would be pretty useless IMO, although we could discuss why it would be useless. It would probably be obvious if we discussed what screens can do and can't do without violating phyics.

--Darin
I want to learn and I try to learn something new every day, but like all people I have my limitations and I know about them. Not everybody can be rocket scientists and luckily we don´t have to be to understand the basics on this forum.

Where you happy with my answer?

The reason I asked about turning the meter around is that no projector is competly uniform either, and If the screen tend to hotspot it will look different with different projectors and different throw ratios.

Do you want me to post pictures with the dnp and other different screens, I will try to make it as close to what I see as possible. But since I am not a pro photogapher I have my limitations.

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post #9466 of 9804 Old 10-23-2014, 05:02 PM
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You have done that from the start. Never listen to anyone. Because you know everything.
Keep up the good work.
You're taking all of this too personally. I don't claim to know everything. I only know what I've seen with my two eyes. I just happened to like my uncalibrated JVC more than the calibrated 1100ES I got to watch over the weekend. You make it seem as if me not agreeing with you is something personal and I'm here to attack you. I can assure you that's not my intention. I respect your opinion, but disagree with it.

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post #9467 of 9804 Old 10-23-2014, 05:07 PM
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Where you happy with my answer?
I agree with your 0.8 for full black. Things can get complicated if the screen has different gains for different colors and the projector has a different balance of light for an all black image than for an all white image, but in general a screen has the same game for a full black image as a full white image from the projector.

Rich touched on this, but the screens can reject light from different angles. So, that can provide a more dynamic image by reducing the effects of lights other than the projector in the room and from reflections. Essentially they can help the system on/off CR (the on/off CR off the screen) when there are lights other than the projector in the room and they can help ANSI CR retention.

I touched on this in my article about CR in 2006 in the "Contrast Ratios and the Room Environment" section here:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...06-part-2.html
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The reason I asked about turning the meter around is that no projector is competly uniform either, and If the screen tend to hotspot it will look different with different projectors and different throw ratios.
The projector can definitely add some non-uniformity of its own, like you said. Here if somebody has another screen with known qualities they can measure off that as a sanity check of the projector and then measure the samples. Or use an illuminance meter that faces the projector (like you mentioned) and measure the light going toward the screen.

You are also right to point out that the throw ratio matters and if somebody did the test they should mention the throw ratio they used for both the projector and the meter.

I don't think pictures are really necessary as cameras can have a hard time capturing certain things and the screen can retain more of the projectors ANSI CR.

If you turn the projector off can you see the screen? Just wondering if there is any other light in the room (besides reflections) that the DNP could help with.

--Darin
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Unfortunately, nothing new to report. For low cost big screen viewing, I want to see someone try a pair of Sony HW40ES stacked using software to align the images. I keep thinking about this 2,900 lumen (calibrated) system that could be had for 5K or 6K. I will get around to a stacked system sometime. That and a dark screen to give me ambient light viewing like I do with a TV.
where would someone get the software to align a stacked system? I couldn't find in on sony site.
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post #9469 of 9804 Old 10-23-2014, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post
The 08-85 does not hotspot if you use the right throw, and sparkles is almost non existent (most will not see it if I don´t point it out). Sheen is very very slight and texture is non existant. The only negative is very little sparkles you really have to look for it even if you know it is there and you can see slight uniformity issues with vertical pans in very bright scenes. The two very small negatives is outweighed by the positives, it gives you alot deeper blacklevel and almost the same whitelevel as a 1.0 gain screen and it gives you a much more dynamic picture. I have tested it togheter with a 1.0 gain matte screen and the 1.0 gain screen looks flat and dull compared to the dnp even if it is brighter. I actually bought a 100" for my family room with white walls and ceiling, and just had to test it in my HT and that was an expensive test because I bought a screen for my HT right away.

I have tested the Black Diamond 0.8 and 1.4 and these screens give the negative artifacts you describe, but not the dnp Supernova 08-85. Even if it is a "daylight" screen it suits perfecly for a lightcontrolled HT, and to call it a daylight screen is bull as it only rejects light from above and below and not from the sides like the Black Diamond. It works very vell in a room with white walls and ceiling, but not in a room with windows, the 85 stand for 85 degree viewing angle. I would not use the dnp if it had many negative artifacts...

Edit: and one more negative thing, it does not go well with LCOS and 3D as it showes some negative polarisation artifacts (wery veak), with DLP it is non existant. I never watch 3D anyway so it is not negative to me, but if I did I would use a 2 screen setup and probarbly would anyway with a high gain screen as 3D with a 0.8 -1.0 gain screen is too dim fra active 3D anyway even with a 1600+ D65 lumen projector.

The ST130 has alot more sparkles than the dnp Supernova 08-85.
I can attest to this. I tested around 25 screen samples from various manufacturers and the only samples I tested that I would personally use were the Stewart ST100 and the DNP Supernova 08-85 & 23-23. I went with the 120" DNP 23-23 because it's in my living room and I have a JVC X700R. It stays plenty bright and looks amazing with all the lights off. If I had a brighter projector and/or smaller screen, I would've gone with the 08-85 material. I saw too many artifacts on all of the other screen samples, ST130 included.

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post #9470 of 9804 Old 10-23-2014, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post
This is what I thought was the biggest thing outstanding from when we had some discussions before. Basically, that you saw daylight scenes as looking like daylight on the Sony (one of the models) and like a cloudy day on the JVC. I believe that you did see this and others may have seen the same thing if they were in the same room at the same time.

At the time I thought the screen differences might account for some of this, but when I tried to ask questions with the goal of figuring some of this stuff out since it wasn't reasonable to fly across the Atlantic I ran into somebody with a "Don't ask me questions" attitude and all this time later they are baffled about why other people don't see what they see.

As far as the DNP and artifacts, I believe I saw some of the earliest light rejecting stuff from them and had some good talks with one of the designers. I pointed out artifacts that I saw and he told me that was speckling and I wasn't supposed to be able to see it, but I did even from a reasonable distance. At a tradeshow maybe a year or two later I saw a DNP screen with a DLP (maybe 3 chip) and it looked much better. The artifacts I had seen on the early stuff weren't there and it looked good out on the show floor.

I wonder if DNP would send out a sample at least.

--Darin
Darin, I would send you my samples if I still had them. Shoot Jesse Walsh an email. He should be able to help you out.

His contact info can be found here: http://www.dnp-screens.com/DNP08/Con...-contacts.aspx

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post #9471 of 9804 Old 10-23-2014, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post
I can attest to this. I tested around 25 screen samples from various manufacturers and the only samples I tested that I would personally use were the Stewart ST100 and the DNP Supernova 08-85 & 23-23. I went with the 120" DNP 23-23 because it's in my living room and I have a JVC X700R. It stays plenty bright and looks amazing with all the lights off. If I had a brighter projector and/or smaller screen, I would've gone with the 08-85 material. I saw too many artifacts on all of the other screen samples, ST130 included.
In looking at the DNP website, it sounds like the 23-23 screen material is is retro-reflective ((i.e., like the Dalite HP); is that correct?

Also, it says that the Infinity frame (which can be made larger than the standard sizes, and in whatever AR one desires) is 'seamless'; yet in the manual it looks like it is constructed by attaching a number of smaller screen panels to a frame. Does this not leave some border between these panels that would be noticeable in the picture?
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post #9472 of 9804 Old 10-23-2014, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
That would be what is now called the 23-23 material. The 08-85 material throws a very nice image. I do not see any artifacts from it. Also black bars are much harder to see on this screen.
I have the 23-23 material and it barely hotspots in really bright scenes, but that's only because the projector is mounted too close to the screen. I believe if the projector was mounted farther back, it would not hotspot, or at least wouldn't even be noticeable. And the 23-23 material has a much wider viewing cone than the 08-85. You can't even tell there's a drop off...at least I can't. Looks just as bright from the kitchen sink as it does from the middle seats. Granted this means it doesn't reject light as well from the sides, but I would rather have wide viewing angles since I watch from my back porch, the kitchen, and the family room. The 23-23 material is the best material I have seen for enhancing contrast and brightness (in ambient light) all while having excellent viewing angles.

Also, it's very transparent in total darkness as well. I thought the gain would make it stand out, but it really doesn't. This would probably translate different in a total batcave. The room, projector, and screen all play a role. I am willing to bet when we all watch the same movie in our theater rooms, the picture looks a little different.

Darin's knowledge of light and physics opened my eyes up so much to be able to "kinda" see the big picture...pun intended. So KUDOS to Darin for that! I have a lot more to learn, but I do know that picture quality is totally subjective. Even if our rooms were setup exactly the same, our eyes and personal preferences are all different.
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post #9473 of 9804 Old 10-23-2014, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by yoyo4k View Post
where would someone get the software to align a stacked system? I couldn't find in on sony site.
Airflex5D just to name the one that I'm aware of. There's probably several others that basically do the same thing, but all offer different features.

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post #9474 of 9804 Old 10-23-2014, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by millerwill View Post
In looking at the DNP website, it sounds like the 23-23 screen material is is retro-reflective ((i.e., like the Dalite HP); is that correct?

Also, it says that the Infinity frame (which can be made larger than the standard sizes, and in whatever AR one desires) is 'seamless'; yet in the manual it looks like it is constructed by attaching a number of smaller screen panels to a frame. Does this not leave some border between these panels that would be noticeable in the picture?
Negative, it's angular reflective. My Supernova Blade is 16:9 120" diagonal and is one solid piece, no seams.

Here's some info from dnp's website for you: http://www.dnp-screens.com/DNP08/Pro...equipment.aspx
The Epic & Epic CS look like the way to go for screen sizes over 120", if you don't want seams. However, the Infinity does have seams, and looks to be geared towards large-scale events for easy setup/tear-down.

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post #9475 of 9804 Old 10-23-2014, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Dj Dee View Post
.I use both my PJ on a 110 inch screen, and I use my Sony in low calibrated now with 17 fl on screen, my JVC in high calibrated gives 16 in high and 11 fl in low. Sony in high to much for my room over 25Fl.
Dj Dee,

I'm still curious. If you were shooting on a 1.3 gain screen of the same size low lamp on the Sony would be close to 27Fl. If testing the Sony and low lamp on Auto Full was too much what would you do?

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post #9476 of 9804 Old 10-23-2014, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post
I have the 23-23 material and it barely hotspots in really bright scenes, but that's only because the projector is mounted too close to the screen. I believe if the projector was mounted farther back, it would not hotspot, or at least wouldn't even be noticeable. And the 23-23 material has a much wider viewing cone than the 08-85. You can't even tell there's a drop off...at least I can't. Looks just as bright from the kitchen sink as it does from the middle seats. Granted this means it doesn't reject light as well from the sides, but I would rather have wide viewing angles since I watch from my back porch, the kitchen, and the family room. The 23-23 material is the best material I have seen for enhancing contrast and brightness all while having excellent viewing angles.
How do you think that 23-23 would perform in a batcave?

James Reid:D
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post #9477 of 9804 Old 10-23-2014, 09:14 PM
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How do you think that 23-23 would perform in a batcave?
It would be super bright with a new bulb, that's for sure. When my bulb was new, I had to keep the manual iris on my X700 on -12 just to keep it tolerable in a completely darkened room (albeit with tan side walls and brown carpet). It looked like a 120" LED TV hanging on the wall. It's still plenty bright with over 2500 hours on the bulb, but now I keep the manual iris on -4 or 0.

If it's a room that you want to be able to keep some lights on in at times (even a totally blacked out room) for watching sports or just hanging out and drinking and/or gaming with friends, Supernova is the way to go. Personally, I would prefer to have a Stewart ST100 drop-down screen and a dnp Supernova 23-23 (or 08-85 since it's ISF certified). That's another thing, apparently the 08-85 is excellent if Joel Silver says so. But the 08-85 requires a brighter projector to light up that material. And the viewing angles on the 08-85 material aren't that great.

It's a fine balancing act of what you want to accomplish. I just wrote down what I needed to get out of my setup (daytime & nighttime), and what I valued most out of the picture quality, and tried to piece the puzzle together the best I could. I couldn't be happier, unless the stupid game lag wasn't an issue. It's not "terrible", but it ain't great either. JVC needs a game mode something serious.

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post #9478 of 9804 Old 10-23-2014, 09:39 PM
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Nuff said!
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post #9479 of 9804 Old 10-23-2014, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by yoyo4k View Post
where would someone get the software to align a stacked system? I couldn't find in on sony site.
I have read about this one. Watched a video showing the procedure and results. There is also a review on the web. I have no first hand experience with it. Not sure what software Sony was using, but it probably worked along the same lines. There is also a thread on the forum about this unit, but not a lot of info in it. This is an Elite product, so we may be able to get it. I have never checked. Probably because I might be too tempted.
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post #9480 of 9804 Old 10-23-2014, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post
I can attest to this. I tested around 25 screen samples from various manufacturers and the only samples I tested that I would personally use were the Stewart ST100 and the DNP Supernova 08-85 & 23-23. I went with the 120" DNP 23-23 because it's in my living room and I have a JVC X700R. It stays plenty bright and looks amazing with all the lights off. If I had a brighter projector and/or smaller screen, I would've gone with the 08-85 material. I saw too many artifacts on all of the other screen samples, ST130 included.
Yep, you need either a lot of lumens or a smaller screen with the 08-85. The DNP 08-85 looks very good in high ambient light conditions, when it is being hit with a high lumen 3-chip projector.

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