Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 317 - AVS Forum
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post #9481 of 9791 Old 10-23-2014, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post
I can attest to this. I tested around 25 screen samples from various manufacturers and the only samples I tested that I would personally use were the Stewart ST100 and the DNP Supernova 08-85 & 23-23. I went with the 120" DNP 23-23 because it's in my living room and I have a JVC X700R. It stays plenty bright and looks amazing with all the lights off. If I had a brighter projector and/or smaller screen, I would've gone with the 08-85 material. I saw too many artifacts on all of the other screen samples, ST130 included.
Yep, you need either a lot of lumens or a smaller screen with the 08-85. The DNP 08-85 looks very good in high ambient light conditions, when it is being hit with a high lumen 3-chip projector.

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post #9482 of 9791 Old 10-23-2014, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
I have read about this one. Watched a video showing the procedure and results. There is also a review on the web. I have no first hand experience with it. Not sure what software Sony was using, but it probably worked along the same lines. There is also a thread on the forum about this unit, but not a lot of info in it. This is an Elite product, so we may be able to get it. I have never checked. Probably because I might be too tempted.
http://aflex5d.com/
Hmmm, that's odd. Did they change their name? My URL bar says aflex5d as well as the website itself, but my tab itself has Airflex5D on it, and I swear that's what it used to be on their website as well.

Oh well, maybe someone else had the name first and made them change it. When I Google Airflex I get quite a few different results.

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post #9483 of 9791 Old 10-23-2014, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
Yep, you need either a lot of lumens or a smaller screen with the 08-85. The DNP 08-85 looks very good in high ambient light conditions, when it is being hit with a high lumen 3-chip projector.
Yep, dnp recommends a 3800 lumen projector for a 120" 16:9 08-85 screen with 200 lux on the screen/400 lux in the room.

http://www.dnp-screens.com/DNP08/Pro...equipment.aspx

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post #9484 of 9791 Old 10-24-2014, 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post
I have the 23-23 material and it barely hotspots in really bright scenes, but that's only because the projector is mounted too close to the screen. I believe if the projector was mounted farther back, it would not hotspot, or at least wouldn't even be noticeable. And the 23-23 material has a much wider viewing cone than the 08-85. You can't even tell there's a drop off...at least I can't. Looks just as bright from the kitchen sink as it does from the middle seats. Granted this means it doesn't reject light as well from the sides, but I would rather have wide viewing angles since I watch from my back porch, the kitchen, and the family room. The 23-23 material is the best material I have seen for enhancing contrast and brightness (in ambient light) all while having excellent viewing angles.

Also, it's very transparent in total darkness as well. I thought the gain would make it stand out, but it really doesn't. This would probably translate different in a total batcave. The room, projector, and screen all play a role. I am willing to bet when we all watch the same movie in our theater rooms, the picture looks a little different.

Darin's knowledge of light and physics opened my eyes up so much to be able to "kinda" see the big picture...pun intended. So KUDOS to Darin for that! I have a lot more to learn, but I do know that picture quality is totally subjective. Even if our rooms were setup exactly the same, our eyes and personal preferences are all different.
23-23 stands for 2.3 gain with a 23 degree viewing angle and 08-85 stands for 0.8 gain and 85 degree viewing angle so I think you have it wrong.

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post #9485 of 9791 Old 10-24-2014, 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post
Yep, dnp recommends a 3800 lumen projector for a 120" 16:9 08-85 screen with 200 lux on the screen/400 lux in the room.

http://www.dnp-screens.com/DNP08/Pro...equipment.aspx
I have told you this before, don see yourself blind on these recommendations. I have the Sony HW55 in a livingroom with a 100" 08-85 and it is no problem watching sports with the light on, if I watch TV shows with a more darker APL I turn off the lights in front of the room or completely. It works perfect and the HW55 is about 1200 lumens calibrated. In my batcave I can get 25+fl on a 128" 2.35:1 screen with an A-lens and new lamp on my VW1100 and it is "only" about 1800+ - lumens with a new lamp and calibrated.

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post #9486 of 9791 Old 10-24-2014, 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

If you turn the projector off can you see the screen? Just wondering if there is any other light in the room (besides reflections) that the DNP could help with.

--Darin
I have 100% lightcontrol and can not see anything in the room with the lights turned of, and to my big surprice the dnp Supernova looked more dynamic than a 1.0 gain matte screen, and that was the reason I spendt almost 8000$ on the screen. It is cheaper in the USA I think, but the snp Supernova is very expensive here in Norway.
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post #9487 of 9791 Old 10-24-2014, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post
Dj Dee,

I'm still curious. If you were shooting on a 1.3 gain screen of the same size low lamp on the Sony would be close to 27Fl. If testing the Sony and low lamp on Auto Full was too much what would you do?

--Darin
Change screen like I did.
Not that I think that I have to much in high, but then it's closer to my jvc, and in my comfort sone with both
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post #9488 of 9791 Old 10-24-2014, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post
Negative, it's angular reflective. My Supernova Blade is 16:9 120" diagonal and is one solid piece, no seams.

Here's some info from dnp's website for you: http://www.dnp-screens.com/DNP08/Pro...equipment.aspx
The Epic & Epic CS look like the way to go for screen sizes over 120", if you don't want seams. However, the Infinity does have seams, and looks to be geared towards large-scale events for easy setup/tear-down.
OK, get it; thanks. With my present Dalite HP (which is retro-refective) I have the projector (Sony 1100) mounted just above and behind my head to take advantage of its properties. With the angular reflectivity of the DNP, I wonder how it would work in this location: its 'mirror' character should still focus the reflection off the screen straight back to ones eyes, right? But would it tend to hot spot with the pj located in this location?
he DNP website says that the Infinity panels show no visible seems between them, but I would need to see this to verify. I have a custom size 144x72 (i.e., 2.0 AR), so the Infinity frame would be ideal if it does indeed show no seams.

PS: Oops! I just saw one fact of the DNP that kills it for me: the 23-23 material recommends a minimum throw ratio of 1.8, while for my room I need a throw ratio of no more that 1.4. So the DNP is a no-go for me.

Last edited by millerwill; 10-24-2014 at 08:30 AM.
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post #9489 of 9791 Old 10-24-2014, 08:31 AM
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[QUOTE=Seegs108;28481282]
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Originally Posted by Dj Dee View Post
You have done that from the start. Never listen to anyone. Because you know everything.
Keep up the good work.
You're taking all of this too personally. I don't claim to know everything. I only know what I've seen with my two eyes. I just happened to like my uncalibrated JVC more than the calibrated 1100ES I got to watch over the weekend. You make it seem as if me not agreeing with you is something personal and I'm here to attack you. I can assure you that's not my intention. I respect your opinion, but disagree with it.[/QUOTE

Sent a answer to this but did not get up, i can't find it hehe.
So here maybe again.

No I do not think I take it to personal at all, but enough with that.
Me and also Andreas get questions every time we say something that we see as a fact about a JVC side by side with a VW 1100 or other vw1100 or jvc x500 or jvc x700. And I see it clary in my cinema and also Andreas cinema. So I do not understand why you and other that have only had a peak at the vw1100 can say what they say.
okey you had more than a small look.but why can we see things so completely different.
Why? It could be the material used or want that one PJ to be better.
You are welcome to Norway to my cinema and I get shocked if you still then say the same.
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post #9490 of 9791 Old 10-24-2014, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Dj Dee View Post
Change screen like I did.
if you were testing the Sony on a 1.3 gain screen and it was too bright in auto full and low lamp for your preference you would change screens? That doesn't make much sense unless you had the other screen there already or would stop testing while you ordered a screen and waited for it to arrive.

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post #9491 of 9791 Old 10-24-2014, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post
if you were testing the Sony on a 1.3 gain screen and it was too bright in auto full and low lamp for your preference you would change screens? That doesn't make much sense unless you had the other screen there already or would stop testing while you ordered a screen and waited for it to arrive.

--Darin
This made me think about your screens. Didn't you at one time have something like 20 screens?

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post #9492 of 9791 Old 10-24-2014, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post
if you were testing the Sony on a 1.3 gain screen and it was too bright in auto full and low lamp for your preference you would change screens? That doesn't make much sense unless you had the other screen there already or would stop testing while you ordered a screen and waited for it to arrive.

--Darin
This made me think about your screens. Didn't you at one time have something like 20 screens?
What is to bright in auto full?
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post #9493 of 9791 Old 10-24-2014, 11:47 AM
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23-23 stands for 2.3 gain with a 23 degree viewing angle and 08-85 stands for 0.8 gain and 85 degree viewing angle so I think you have it wrong.
Thanks, I know the technical details...read plenty about those. I think in "my" situation it has more to do with screen gain, projector brightness and room reflectance.

1000 lumens (at best) isn't enough to light up the 08-85 material so it was really easy to see the brightness roll-off when moving off angle (it went from fairly dim in the sweet spot to almost black 60 degrees off-angle). But 1000 lumens or less is plenty to light up the 23-23 (now HG23) material so that makes it more difficult to discern the brightness roll-off when moving off angle. At least that's all that I could think of that makes sense to me. That extra brightness from the screen gain also helps offset the room reflectance.

Trust me, I really wanted to be able to get a 120" 08-85, but it was just too dim in the sweet spot and not watchable at all off-angle, whereas the HG23 was nice and bright anywhere in the room.

Here's some really good details on the screen materials:
http://www.onprojection.com/Support/Application-Notes

http://www.onprojection.com/Screens/Surface-Types

Respectfully,
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post #9494 of 9791 Old 10-24-2014, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post
I have told you this before, don see yourself blind on these recommendations. I have the Sony HW55 in a livingroom with a 100" 08-85 and it is no problem watching sports with the light on, if I watch TV shows with a more darker APL I turn off the lights in front of the room or completely. It works perfect and the HW55 is about 1200 lumens calibrated. In my batcave I can get 25+fl on a 128" 2.35:1 screen with an A-lens and new lamp on my VW1100 and it is "only" about 1800+ - lumens with a new lamp and calibrated.
I'm not doubting this, but I have a 20" larger screen and 200 less lumens with a brand new bulb and lights on in the room the majority of the time. 08-85 would not be good for my current setup.

I'm sure 1800+ lumens is fine in your bat cave on your 128" 08-85 screen. dnp recommends 3800 lumens on a 120" screen (8" smaller than yours) in a brightly lit room that has 200 lux of ambient light hitting the screen and 400 lux of ambient light in the room. In a bat cave, you would be able to cut their lumen recommendation in half or more (which would equate to </=1900 lumens).

Take that 128" screen out to the living room and see how well it performs with your HW55, then you'll see my point.

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post #9495 of 9791 Old 10-24-2014, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by millerwill View Post
OK, get it; thanks. With my present Dalite HP (which is retro-refective) I have the projector (Sony 1100) mounted just above and behind my head to take advantage of its properties. With the angular reflectivity of the DNP, I wonder how it would work in this location: its 'mirror' character should still focus the reflection off the screen straight back to ones eyes, right? But would it tend to hot spot with the pj located in this location?
he DNP website says that the Infinity panels show no visible seems between them, but I would need to see this to verify. I have a custom size 144x72 (i.e., 2.0 AR), so the Infinity frame would be ideal if it does indeed show no seams.

PS: Oops! I just saw one fact of the DNP that kills it for me: the 23-23 material recommends a minimum throw ratio of 1.8, while for my room I need a throw ratio of no more that 1.4. So the DNP is a no-go for me.
Yeah, they recommend a pretty long throw which negates hot spotting. I needed to mount my projector at 15'9" to be at 1.8 x screen width (120" diag = ~105" wide x 1.8 = 189/12=15.75), but that wasn't possible for me since my room is only 16'6" long and I wanted to do ceiling mount so I didn't get blinded walking back and forth in front of the projector. My pj is mounted at 13'6", so I can see a hotspot on certain scenes, but it's rare and doesn't bother me. Plus I get maximum brightness having the projector mounted closer which is good for having it in the living room.

Also, the projector can be mounted anywhere from 5% above the top edge of the screen to 5% below the bottom edge of the screen, and anywhere in between. The closer you mount the projector to the screen, the more towards the middle of the screen you will want the lens of the projector to be so the screen doesn't absorb light from the projector (if the light from the projector comes in at too steep of an angle it will be treated as ambient light and rejected instead of reflected back towards the viewers).

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post #9496 of 9791 Old 10-24-2014, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
This made me think about your screens. Didn't you at one time have something like 20 screens?
I'm not sure it ever got to 20 at the same time. With my outdoor and portable screens maybe 15.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Dee View Post
What is to bright in auto full?
That is up to each individual. You already told us this for your room:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Dee View Post
Sony in high to much for my room over 25Fl.
and that lower was in your comfort zone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post
Darin, I would send you my samples if I still had them. Shoot Jesse Walsh an email. He should be able to help you out.

His contact info can be found here: http://www.dnp-screens.com/DNP08/Con...-contacts.aspx
Thanks.

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post #9497 of 9791 Old 10-24-2014, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post
Thanks, I know the technical details...read plenty about those. I think in "my" situation it has more to do with screen gain, projector brightness and room reflectance.

1000 lumens (at best) isn't enough to light up the 08-85 material so it was really easy to see the brightness roll-off when moving off angle (it went from fairly dim in the sweet spot to almost black 60 degrees off-angle). But 1000 lumens or less is plenty to light up the 23-23 (now HG23) material so that makes it more difficult to discern the brightness roll-off when moving off angle. At least that's all that I could think of that makes sense to me. That extra brightness from the screen gain also helps offset the room reflectance.

Trust me, I really wanted to be able to get a 120" 08-85, but it was just too dim in the sweet spot and not watchable at all off-angle, whereas the HG23 was nice and bright anywhere in the room.

Here's some really good details on the screen materials:
http://www.onprojection.com/Support/Application-Notes

http://www.onprojection.com/Screens/Surface-Types
What you say here I find strange as the 08-85 sould have a much better viewing angle than the 23-23, and In my family room (just tested it) I can put my head at the screen wall (85-90 degrees) and not see any drop in brightness on the 08-85. This is with the lights on and a 200 hour old lamp on the HW55 and the lamp in high.

And I have tested the HW55 on the 128" screen and it is no problem...

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Last edited by Andreas21; 10-24-2014 at 02:24 PM.
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post #9498 of 9791 Old 10-24-2014, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post
I'm not sure it ever got to 20 at the same time. With my outdoor and portable screens maybe 15.
That is up to each individual. You already told us this for your room:and that lower was in your comfort zone.
Thanks.

--Darin
Your point?
You asked me I answered!
Like I told you in my setup, I like to use it in low. Many of my friends like it in high lamp mode. I can gladly live with only high mode on my PJ but I can pick low and I like that more.
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post #9499 of 9791 Old 10-24-2014, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post
What you say here I find strange as the 08-85 sould have a much better viewing angle than the 23-23, and In my family room (just tested it) I can put my head at the screen wall (85-90 degrees) and not see any drop in brightness on the 08-85. This is with the lights on and a 200 hour old lamp on the HW55 and the lamp in high.

And I have tested the HW55 on the 128" screen and it is no problem...
Well, color me intrigued. Maybe the sample I had was messed up, or the sample was just too small to make a valid observation.

Why do you have to live so damn far away, LOL!? I would love to check out your setups just so I could see what you are seeing for myself. And not that I don't believe you, I just want to see an 120"+ 08-85 VW1000/1100 combo in person so I can convince my wife to get me that for Christmas.

Maybe one day when me and my wife are on vacation I can be like, "Hey babe, don't be mad but we're about to make a quick detour by Andreas house". That would go over about as well as a fart in Church.

But anyways, the most important thing is that we're both happy with what we have. Cheers.

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post #9500 of 9791 Old 10-24-2014, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Dj Dee View Post
Your point?
You asked me I answered!
You didn't give me a reasonable answer unless you are actually telling us that if you were testing a Sony in the case I mentioned you would just give up and wait for weeks to get a new screen (at which point the projector may not even be available for testing).

You seriously wouldn't try to make it look good on the 1.3 gain screen and would wait for different screen?

Do you need to know my point before you can decide what a reasonable answer would be?

It isn't so important when you seem so set on not giving a realistic answer.

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post #9501 of 9791 Old 10-24-2014, 04:38 PM
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Well, color me intrigued. Maybe the sample I had was messed up, or the sample was just too small to make a valid observation.

Why do you have to live so damn far away, LOL!? I would love to check out your setups just so I could see what you are seeing for myself. And not that I don't believe you, I just want to see an 120"+ 08-85 VW1000/1100 combo in person so I can convince my wife to get me that for Christmas.

Maybe one day when me and my wife are on vacation I can be like, "Hey babe, don't be mad but we're about to make a quick detour by Andreas house". That would go over about as well as a fart in Church.

But anyways, the most important thing is that we're both happy with what we have. Cheers.
Double post...

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post #9502 of 9791 Old 10-24-2014, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post
Well, color me intrigued. Maybe the sample I had was messed up, or the sample was just too small to make a valid observation.

Why do you have to live so damn far away, LOL!? I would love to check out your setups just so I could see what you are seeing for myself. And not that I don't believe you, I just want to see an 120"+ 08-85 VW1000/1100 combo in person so I can convince my wife to get me that for Christmas.

Maybe one day when me and my wife are on vacation I can be like, "Hey babe, don't be mad but we're about to make a quick detour by Andreas house". That would go over about as well as a fart in Church.

But anyways, the most important thing is that we're both happy with what we have. Cheers.
Yes, that is the most important thing!

What might have happened is that it was marked wrong, if I remember correctly they mark their samples with top and maby this was put on the side and you got to see the light rejection instead of the excellent viewing angle of the 08-85.

And if you are coming to Norway one day you are very welcome!

Regards
Andreas

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post #9503 of 9791 Old 10-24-2014, 04:59 PM
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Yes, that is the most important thing!

What might have happened is that it was marked wrong, if I remember correctly they mark their samples with top and maby this was put on the side and you got to see the light rejection instead of the excellent viewing angle of the 08-85.

And if you are coming to Norway one day you are very welcome!
That could be as well. I swear I tried it both ways, but I can't recall.

Man, last time I was in Europe was Poland with one of my friends from Pittsburgh back in 2004. Stayed for 2-weeks for a couple weddings. Did some partying in Warsaw and puked my guts out (more than once) trying to hang with all those crazy guys. I thought my American liver was tuned well enough for all that Vodka, boy was I wrong, LOL! It was fun though, lots of good people there, very chill culture. Go to the meat market and get fresh Kielbasa, then hit the bakery for some freshly baked bread, grab a couple cases of Tyskie and Lech beer then build a fire and eat, drink, play guitar, sing, and joke all night. Loved it there, simple life.

I'll definitely let you know if I'm going to be coming over that way. I need a good vacation.

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post #9504 of 9791 Old 10-25-2014, 02:05 AM
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You didn't give me a reasonable answer unless you are actually telling us that if you were testing a Sony in the case I mentioned you would just give up and wait for weeks to get a new screen (at which point the projector may not even be available for testing).

You seriously wouldn't try to make it look good on the 1.3 gain screen and would wait for different screen?

Do you need to know my point before you can decide what a reasonable answer would be?

It isn't so important when you seem so set on not giving a realistic answer.

--Darin
Ok ....if low on a 1.3 then was to high, then if I could not live with high punch. I used iris on manual. And tuned down.
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post #9505 of 9791 Old 10-25-2014, 03:37 AM
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You didn't give me a reasonable answer unless you are actually telling us that if you were testing a Sony in the case I mentioned you would just give up and wait for weeks to get a new screen (at which point the projector may not even be available for testing).

You seriously wouldn't try to make it look good on the 1.3 gain screen and would wait for different screen?

Do you need to know my point before you can decide what a reasonable answer would be?

It isn't so important when you seem so set on not giving a realistic answer.

--Darin
Anyway I can't find this a realistic question to me! , this is just to make idiotic discussion, and twist what I say in any way. Just like I feel on this forum. But again I want to know your point by asking me this. And why, because this had nothing to do with what i sayed at the start. And that i say that it was to much in high. Stupid of me to write it like that, it's what you prefer your selves. I may misunderstand but I an Norwegian
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post #9506 of 9791 Old 10-25-2014, 12:15 PM
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My thoughts on the CRT meet. I have read the posts from the last couple of days late at night, so I might be missing some things.

Let me start by saying that William was great for hosting everyone in his home for the day. I was the one that encouraged Dillon to bring over his pjs to do a comparison both between the CRTs and digital as well as DLP and LCOS. Because of my situation, I may be dumping my CRTs and going digital (like the great deal that AVS has on the JVC RS4910).

It has to be clearly stated up front that the CRT blend was no where near ready. He decided to change some boards out and that created a lot of issues that were trying to be addressed even up to the beginning of the meet. William did say that he is done changing boards out and once he gets this set up done then he will just watch and no longer tinker.

Anyway after converge/align, William tried calibrating with his new Hubble that he just bought. He had never used it before and there is a learning curve. The end result is that the image wasn't 100% maximized. They unfortunately needed more time. If Craig Rounds had came down, then it probably could have been perfected. Of course that would have depended on the new boards performing correctly.

So, this was the set up. The blend zone was minimized, but still visible. They were definitely crushing blacks and it wasn't as bright as it should have been. The image still looked good, but maybe I was high on Seaton sound or the local craft beer.

Next comes Dillon with his JVC and lens. I helped him with a makeshift stand out of Seaton speaker cartons and away we went. He didn't have time to calibrate it nor did he have his meter with him. Dillon showed a bunch of clips and it was easily evident that the JVC was sharper and much brighter than the blend. Of course, one should think it would be as digitals have a much higher MTF than CRTs along with more lumens. If sharpness is your main interest than DLP should still have an advantage over LCOS.

The black level was still a little less than the CRTs, but not by much and I doubt anyone would notice without a direct side by side comparison.

About the brightness, that is subjective as to what people like and are willing to accept. I thought the brightness was more than acceptable. It would have been nice to have a number, but no one that was there mentioned that it was to dark. If I were in the market for a scope screen of this size, then I wouldn't see the JVC with lens as lacking. IIRC JVC had one of the Cedia demos on a screen larger than 8 feet and it seemed good (Lucy?).

One final note on the CRT brightness. After everyone left, Kurt changed the neckboards and directly plugged in his Oppo on one pj. This bypassed the blender and the set up for the meet. The CRT was much brighter, which should translate over to the blend.

Hopefully once the blend is worked out and set up to its potential there will be another meet. Maybe Dillon can come down again and we can do a better comparison. As for CRTers, yes we are unique lot. There are still many who prefer the look of CRT. It is a preference and I don't know why some feel the need to go out of their way to tell them that what they see is wrong.

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post #9507 of 9791 Old 10-25-2014, 12:16 PM
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Now about the digital comparison over at Haflichs, I didn't get a chance to go over there. Mark invited me and I was planning to swing by on Sunday. I got to talking with Steve and the other Mark. Seaton whipped out his 24" and I was so mesmerized that I couldn't leave. I decided to drive back to Miami on Monday, so time ran out. Sorry Haflich, at the next meet hopefully I will have more time.

Having spoken to Dillon at length, I am not sure why he is be criticized for what he saw. Why is it that when Kris and Dillon don't agree that the Sony is the greatest pj ever that they either don't know what they are talking about or they saw a defective unit. If it is the latter, then I would be more concerned about quality control on a $20k pj than the potential for the best image available.

While I didn't see Mark's Sony, I have seen the pj. I think it is nice. Would I buy it? If I had the disposable income, then I would use it for some things. For movies, I think I am an on/off cr whore and would probably go with the JVC.

The DNP screens are really nice, but it has been a couple of years since I have seen one. If I needed an ambient light rejecting screen, then I would definitely consider it. In a light controlled theater, I think the advantage would be minimized. There is no way it is going to give more on/off cr than what the pj can generate. Of course, there is a member here who has made a living doing just that.

Finally, Dillon was great. I was expecting someone younger. When he showed up at the oldest continuesly operating restaraunt in the US on Fri night, one could tell he is very enthusiastic about projectors. Kind of reminded me of a your Darinp2.

One last thing. I don't think anyone can criticize the audio. William has five Seaton Catalysts across the front along with four Submersive subs. After Mark tweaked the system, it sounded flawless. It was probably the best HT sound I have heard in anyone's HT.
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post #9508 of 9791 Old 10-25-2014, 12:50 PM
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Ok ....if low on a 1.3 then was to high, then if I could not live with high punch. I used iris on manual. And tuned down.
Does the 1000 have a way to control the most open iris position and still use the auto iris? My previous Sony had a way to do that in the service menu.

Previously you accused us of using the auto iris in auto limited on the 600 in order to try to make the 600 look bad, so I was curious what you would do when testing with a screen or setup where the projector settings you use on your current screen would put something outside your preferences. I'm not sure if you are saying you would disable the auto iris completely (go to manual) or whether there is a way to pick the most open iris position in auto besides auto full and auto limited.

--Darin

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post #9509 of 9791 Old 10-25-2014, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post
Now about the digital comparison over at Haflichs, I didn't get a chance to go over there. Mark invited me and I was planning to swing by on Sunday. I got to talking with Steve and the other Mark. Seaton whipped out his 24" and I was so mesmerized that I couldn't leave. I decided to drive back to Miami on Monday, so time ran out. Sorry Haflich, at the next meet hopefully I will have more time.

Having spoken to Dillon at length, I am not sure why he is be criticized for what he saw. Why is it that when Kris and Dillon don't agree that the Sony is the greatest pj ever that they either don't know what they are talking about or they saw a defective unit. If it is the latter, then I would be more concerned about quality control on a $20k pj than the potential for the best image available.

While I didn't see Mark's Sony, I have seen the pj. I think it is nice. Would I buy it? If I had the disposable income, then I would use it for some things. For movies, I think I am an on/off cr whore and would probably go with the JVC.

The DNP screens are really nice, but it has been a couple of years since I have seen one. If I needed an ambient light rejecting screen, then I would definitely consider it. In a light controlled theater, I think the advantage would be minimized. There is no way it is going to give more on/off cr than what the pj can generate. Of course, there is a member here who has made a living doing just that.

Finally, Dillon was great. I was expecting someone younger. When he showed up at the oldest continuesly operating restaraunt in the US on Fri night, one could tell he is very enthusiastic about projectors. Kind of reminded me of a your Darinp2.

One last thing. I don't think anyone can criticize the audio. William has five Seaton Catalysts across the front along with four Submersive subs. After Mark tweaked the system, it sounded flawless. It was probably the best HT sound I have heard in anyone's HT.
The sound I think was the most impressive part of the meet. When I finally build a dedicated sound treated room I can only hope it sounds as good as that. I realized when I got home I had the MPC settings on the JVC turned on. It was just the "Enhance" feature that was enabled at 15 (out of 100). This acts as a sharpener and could have accounted for the image looking less natural as some pointed out in criticism against the JVC versus the CRTs. But I still think the CRTs would have looked more natural even if I had disabled it. It's a shame we didn't get a chance to fire up the 3-chip DLP. It's image is more natural looking than the JVCs.

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post #9510 of 9791 Old 10-25-2014, 01:16 PM
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My thoughts on the CRT meet. I have read the posts from the last couple of days late at night, so I might be missing some things.

Let me start by saying that William was great for hosting everyone in his home for the day. I was the one that encouraged Dillon to bring over his pjs to do a comparison both between the CRTs and digital as well as DLP and LCOS. Because of my situation, I may be dumping my CRTs and going digital (like the great deal that AVS has on the JVC RS4910).

It has to be clearly stated up front that the CRT blend was no where near ready. He decided to change some boards out and that created a lot of issues that were trying to be addressed even up to the beginning of the meet. William did say that he is done changing boards out and once he gets this set up done then he will just watch and no longer tinker.

Anyway after converge/align, William tried calibrating with his new Hubble that he just bought. He had never used it before and there is a learning curve. The end result is that the image wasn't 100% maximized. They unfortunately needed more time. If Craig Rounds had came down, then it probably could have been perfected. Of course that would have depended on the new boards performing correctly.

So, this was the set up. The blend zone was minimized, but still visible. They were definitely crushing blacks and it wasn't as bright as it should have been. The image still looked good, but maybe I was high on Seaton sound or the local craft beer.

Next comes Dillon with his JVC and lens. I helped him with a makeshift stand out of Seaton speaker cartons and away we went. He didn't have time to calibrate it nor did he have his meter with him. Dillon showed a bunch of clips and it was easily evident that the JVC was sharper and much brighter than the blend. Of course, one should think it would be as digitals have a much higher MTF than CRTs along with more lumens. If sharpness is your main interest than DLP should still have an advantage over LCOS.

The black level was still a little less than the CRTs, but not by much and I doubt anyone would notice without a direct side by side comparison.

About the brightness, that is subjective as to what people like and are willing to accept. I thought the brightness was more than acceptable. It would have been nice to have a number, but no one that was there mentioned that it was to dark. If I were in the market for a scope screen of this size, then I wouldn't see the JVC with lens as lacking. IIRC JVC had one of the Cedia demos on a screen larger than 8 feet and it seemed good (Lucy?).

One final note on the CRT brightness. After everyone left, Kurt changed the neckboards and directly plugged in his Oppo on one pj. This bypassed the blender and the set up for the meet. The CRT was much brighter, which should translate over to the blend.

Hopefully once the blend is worked out and set up to its potential there will be another meet. Maybe Dillon can come down again and we can do a better comparison. As for CRTers, yes we are unique lot. There are still many who prefer the look of CRT. It is a preference and I don't know why some feel the need to go out of their way to tell them that what they see is wrong.
You do not need to tell them. What you see when side by side testing a with a good digital. I stopped many years ago, and do not miss it one bit. They even say it's to much light when measured about 5-6 fl. For me the digital world is so much better. The only and the only thing that CRT have is the total darkness. That is better than most of the digitals.
All other aspects has been ripped to bits by the digital world.
And for crt owners the JVC x500/x700 is by far the best, if you are used to CRT. Then I also understand why there is a lot of defending JVC over the Sony. Once you go black you newer go back. The correct is when you go black you go blind then with CRT. Take the jvc x500 you get much better shadow detail and better brighter pictures. More natural sharpness, and clarity, better natural HD colours And of course everything else also. But I know people that still prefers a 909 barco even after many side by side tests and the CRT been blown away by the digital again and again.
Like me I remember just the dark and looked away at all the rest.
And sayed that's more natural picture. Soft is natural? Unsharp is natural, black crush is natural, flat images in bright scenes is natural, look at zero dark thirty on a CRT look at the eyes of the soldiers night glasses is that natural. Even with more brightness on a CRT it will not help, there are so many other factors that come in. EXTREAME low ANSI contrast, and all talk about the enormous 3D dept in 2D, jeep not after a side by side test. It's alway silence and after a week of adjusting it better than a digital hehe.
Maybe you can measure some better black on the CRT, but then no
info. It would be fun to see a 909 stack
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