Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 327 - AVS Forum
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post #9781 of 9786 Old Yesterday, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
I realize there are some limitations with plasmas, but they've been able to do 15000:1 ANSI for a long time starting with the Kuros from Pioneer. Plus you get much better motion resolution on a plasma. If anything, a high end plasma will yield a CRT-like image much better than that LCD monitor. The one thing I never liked about plasma was the constant anti burn-in filter that's always on. It adds extra noise to the image at all times. I never got a chance to see the latest Panasonics, so I wonder if this artifact has been reduced?
Plasma was great except for pixel dithering, heat generation, power consumption, burn-in on earlier models (it wasn't bad at all on the newer models), and that's about it. I still never saw a plasma that had black levels good enough for me (and I saw the Pioneer Kuro 9G in Best Buy Magnolia in Reno, NV). The image washed out really bad with the lights turned on. I had one Samsung PN64F8000 or something like that. I only kept it for a week because I couldn't stand the grey letterbox bars. And from what I've read, even the Pioneer Kuro 9.5G and Panasonic ZT60 still had "some" light in the letterbox bars. D-Nice tweaked some Kuro 9.5G's to make the black levels better, but that's only a 50" model, which is way too small (that's what she said, LOL!). I ended up with a Samsung UN55B8500 full-array local dimming LED LCD that had pitch black letterbox bars, but exhibited some haloing. And now that TV is broken and will cost like $500 to fix...maybe one day.

Any light in the letterbox bars just destroys the whole movie experience for me. That's the main reason I'm so excited to get a large screen OLED, or whatever tech (QLED, CLED, etc...) ends up being the next big thing. Infinite contrast even in ambient lighting conditions...sign me up! Oh yeah, and add in Dolby HDR for icing on the cake.

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post #9782 of 9786 Old Yesterday, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post
Plasma was great except for pixel dithering, heat generation, power consumption, burn-in on earlier models (it wasn't bad at all on the newer models), and that's about it. I still never saw a plasma that had black levels good enough for me (and I saw the Pioneer Kuro 9G in Best Buy Magnolia in Reno, NV). The image washed out really bad with the lights turned on. I had one Samsung PN64F8000 or something like that. I only kept it for a week because I couldn't stand the grey letterbox bars. And from what I've read, even the Pioneer Kuro 9.5G and Panasonic ZT60 still had "some" light in the letterbox bars. D-Nice tweaked some Kuro 9.5G's to make the black levels better, but that's only a 50" model, which is way too small (that's what she said, LOL!). I ended up with a Samsung UN55B8500 full-array local dimming LED LCD that had pitch black letterbox bars, but exhibited some haloing. And now that TV is broken and will cost like $500 to fix...maybe one day.

Any light in the letterbox bars just destroys the whole movie experience for me. That's the main reason I'm so excited to get a large screen OLED, or whatever tech (QLED, CLED, etc...) ends up being the next big thing. Infinite contrast even in ambient lighting conditions...sign me up! Oh yeah, and just add in Dolby HDR for icing on the cake.
I'm not trying to say they have the best black level and contrast out there, but ANSI contrast is about 15000:1 on the Kuro and newer Panasonic plasmas. I'm not a huge fan of full array LED back lit LCDs because of the halo artifacts you get. I'd rather have a consistent level of black at all times which is why I'd own a plasma over an LCD any day. Plus, like I previously mentioned, plasmas get 1080+ lines of motion resolution natively (no creative frame interpolation needed) where even the best LCDs are no where near that.

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post #9783 of 9786 Old Yesterday, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
I'm not trying to say they have the best black level and contrast out there, but ANSI contrast is about 15000:1 on the Kuro and newer Panasonic plasmas. I'm not a huge fan of full array LED back lit LCDs because of the halo artifacts you get. I'd rather have a consistent level of black at all times which is why I'd own a plasma over an LCD any day. Plus, like I previously mentioned, plasmas get 1080+ lines of motion resolution natively (no creative frame interpolation needed) where even the best LCDs are no where near that.
I feel ya there. They all have their pros and cons, that's for sure. If a manufacturer ever creates a display that has perfect PQ and is affordable by the masses, said manufacturer would surely go out of business within 10-years, or have to downsize significantly. That's probably why it hasn't been done yet, they don't want to cut their own throats. Incremental upgrades and failures by design keeps them in business.

There have been a few FALD LED/LCDs that have been really good at minimizing haloing. For instance, the Sharp Elites were super nice other than the Cyan color issue, plus they came in a 70" size. It just depends on the amount of zones they implemented and how well their algorithms worked.

But yeah, hopefully LGs new OLED printing technique will allow them to scale the panels up past 77" and retain high yields so we can get larger screen sizes for affordable prices. Assuming there's a high enough demand to help drive down prices as well.

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post #9784 of 9786 Old Yesterday, 09:13 PM
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Tech news outlets are reporting Sony (yet again) scaling back production on both smartphones and TVs:

http://www.engadget.com/2014/11/25/s...rnaround-plan/

From the article above:

"In fact, the plan can be summed up pretty simply as "make a lot fewer TVs and smartphones."

"The (new) new strategy will see the company abandon plans to compete with rivals in the market share stakes and concentrate on a smaller clutch of devices that turn a profit even if sales were to stop by 30 percent."


That doesn't sound great for projection either, given I'm sure it's a very low profit part of the business. I'm not a business guy so I have no idea, but it sounds ominous.
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post #9785 of 9786 Old Yesterday, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
Tech news outlets are reporting Sony (yet again) scaling back production on both smartphones and TVs:

http://www.engadget.com/2014/11/25/s...rnaround-plan/

From the article above:

"In fact, the plan can be summed up pretty simply as "make a lot fewer TVs and smartphones."

"The (new) new strategy will see the company abandon plans to compete with rivals in the market share stakes and concentrate on a smaller clutch of devices that turn a profit even if sales were to stop by 30 percent."


That doesn't sound great for projection either, given I'm sure it's a very low profit part of the business. I'm not a business guy so I have no idea, but it sounds ominous.
While the projector division can't be a big part of their business, I bet it is making a profit. For the last several years, we sell as many Sony projectors as we can get.

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post #9786 of 9786 Old Today, 01:59 AM
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The problem with Sony is that about 10-15 years ago Samsung and some other companies were so heavily subsidized by the South Korean and other governments that Sony could hardly compete in any area (monitors, TV's, headphones, cheap speakers, various consumer electronics). Sony kept trying to use their brand name to convince people "Sony was the best", just buy the brand, and people stopped caring as much about the brand as they used to. Samsung and some of the other Asian companies just killed the Japanese companies in the early 2000's. Sony has never really fully recovered. Sony invested too much money into Bluray, and they made a lot of terribly dumb investments overseas. Sony has done bad in the tablet business, bad in the movie business, and generally bad.

Sony always has problems controlling their costs, the company has always been too bloated.


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post #9787 of 9786 Old Today, 03:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post
If a manufacturer ever creates a display that has perfect PQ and is affordable by the masses, said manufacturer would surely go out of business within 10-years, or have to downsize significantly. That's probably why it hasn't been done yet, they don't want to cut their own throats. Incremental upgrades and failures by design keeps them in business.
Companies rarely think that long-term, they are mostly concerned with sales within 1-2 years, though some bigger companies do think longer term. Stuff breaks because they are trying to manufacture it as cheaply as possible, it is a balance between trying to make it more reliable and keep the costs low, because the more reliable it is the less cost they have for warranties and repair.

Most electronics are more reliable now than in the past. Hard drives, TV's, Smart Phones, projectors, etc... Though now-a-days we do see more MFR lemon models, but it's easy to figure out which ones those are by online reviews. Also thanks to online reviews, it's forced companies to spend more on reliability because if the failure rates are too high the reviews will get hammered.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
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