Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 328 - AVS Forum
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post #9811 of 9896 Old 11-29-2014, 12:53 AM
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I think the 3D in GOG is much better than WS which like you said isn't much to talk about. I had no idea what to expect and now it's one of my favorite Marvel movies. Curious to hear your take on the sound, I thought it was great. definitely looking forward to the 2nd movie. speaking of which, Pacific Rim 2 is due in 2017. That's a long way off, it better be awesome.
Great to hear on Guardians. Looking forward to it and planning on a blind buy.

Very cool about PR 2! I thought the first one was a blast with great A/V/3d.

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post #9812 of 9896 Old 11-29-2014, 08:42 AM
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It seems the JVC X500 is pretty much the reference projector for 2D (especially since there's basically no 4K content available to most). The fact that a number of respected people here prefer it (for their purposes) over the Sony VW1100 says a lot! According to Ekki the LS10000 compares very favourably with both the X500 and X700. Even though the LS10000 is more expensive than the street price for both the X500 and X700 it seems probable to me that the same people that prefer the JVCs over the Sony may also prefer the LS10000 over the Sony for basically the same reasons -- contrast and black level.

the LS10000 is one nice looking beast -- when this thing hits the marketplace in numbers it should make for some interesting reading.
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post #9813 of 9896 Old 11-29-2014, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
I think one of the issues is that one of the members making a lot of comments on the LS10000 is an employee of the shop selling it. I'd like to hear more from that member who owns the X500. From what he's saying it seems it's just a slight bump in PQ to him over his X500. Though it seems they haven't A/B'd yet and I think that would be a good idea to do. Brightness match, calibrate and then compare.
You prefer your $4,000 (street) JVC over the $28,000 (list) Sony VW1100, so a slight bump (if that proves correct) in performance in favour of the LS10000 could auger well for the Epson.

My main concerns regarding the Epson will be quality control and 3D.
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post #9814 of 9896 Old 11-29-2014, 08:53 AM
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Great to hear on Guardians. Looking forward to it and planning on a blind buy.

Very cool about PR 2! I thought the first one was a blast with great A/V/3d.
Guardians was a visual feast, really cool looking movie.
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post #9815 of 9896 Old 11-29-2014, 11:33 AM - Thread Starter
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The 4910/X500 has basically the same native contrast as the entry RS46/X35 which before being discontinued, was about a 1/3 the price of the Epson LS10000. If spending $8,000 on the Epson, it should be able to at least match the contrast performance of the entry model.

regarding the 4k shift, opinions will vary widely since there is image processing involved. Someone's idea of 'sharp' could be way overcooked (remember how people were going nuts over the reality creation on the HW50). I'd like to see if the projector can resolve to the pixel level with the 4k shift turned off. How 'naturally' sharp is it?

3D is a topic into itself, cine4home does not post the L/R patterns. The details are usually very technical, more-so than any other review, but it's still hard to gauge the 3D performance without the screenshots through the glasses like we've done on the shoot-out threads. It's the 1 time a screenshot can actually count for something.

The X500 is 1/2 the price and the difference in cost buys ~12 lamps. Each lamp turns it into a 'new' projector again which helps with resale and rejuvenating screen brightness. I'd like to know if I use the Epson LS10000 with high lamp all the time (big, low gain screen or 3D lover) how long will the laser last until 75% and 50% of it's original brightness.

DV - you sound interested, i think you should buy one and give us the full report. Can it handle the 3D processor with x-talk free images? Those L/R reports would go a long way..
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post #9816 of 9896 Old 11-29-2014, 05:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post
Great to hear on Guardians. Looking forward to it and planning on a blind buy.

Very cool about PR 2! I thought the first one was a blast with great A/V/3d.
one thing in GOG, it often jumps from scope to IMAX throughout the movie. this looked great on my 16:9 but can see it being a problem for certain setups.
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post #9817 of 9896 Old 11-29-2014, 05:09 PM
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one thing in GOG, it often jumps from scope to IMAX throughout the movie. this looked great on my 16:9 but can see it being a problem for certain setups.
Luckily it's only the 3D version that changes the aspect ratio. There's also a different color tone to the 3D version's transfer.
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post #9818 of 9896 Old 11-29-2014, 05:20 PM
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one thing in GOG, it often jumps from scope to IMAX throughout the movie. this looked great on my 16:9 but can see it being a problem for certain setups.

Bummer. I'm not a fan of VA on my scope screen, but no choice I guess. Will just mask to a constant 2.35 and hope for the best as far as the framing.

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post #9819 of 9896 Old 11-29-2014, 06:31 PM
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DV - you sound interested, i think you should buy one and give us the full report. Can it handle the 3D processor with x-talk free images? Those L/R reports would go a long way..
Yes, I am interested; however, I would prefer it if you took the plunge and then us all know what you think.
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post #9820 of 9896 Old 11-30-2014, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi, I think you would get more responses posting in the audio forums

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...ps-processors/
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post #9821 of 9896 Old 11-30-2014, 11:21 AM
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post #9822 of 9896 Old 12-01-2014, 03:47 PM
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Of those of you who have looked at both the JVC X500 and the X700. Would you consider the contrast of X700 to be a substantial upgrade. I have an X500 and my room is as black as it gets. I am set up to maximize the contrast. Just wondering if it would be worth selling my 500 and grabbing a X700 or X900? Or maybe do what I had planned and wait for next years JVCs.

James Reid:D
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post #9823 of 9896 Old 12-01-2014, 04:58 PM
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Of those of you who have looked at both the JVC X500 and the X700. Would you consider the contrast of X700 to be a substantial upgrade. I have an X500 and my room is as black as it gets. I am set up to maximize the contrast. Just wondering if it would be worth selling my 500 and grabbing a X700 or X900? Or maybe do what I had planned and wait for next years JVCs.
Yes - it was noticeable to folks in my theater when I demo'd both projectors back to back, as long as you have a theater that can take advantage of it, and you can stop down the iris.

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post #9824 of 9896 Old 12-01-2014, 05:32 PM
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Yes - it was noticeable to folks in my theater when I demo'd both projectors back to back, as long as you have a theater that can take advantage of it, and you can stop down the iris.

Thanks, that must be pretty dam impressive if it is noticeable.

James Reid:D
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post #9825 of 9896 Old 12-01-2014, 06:36 PM
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Thanks, that must be pretty dam impressive if it is noticeable.
If the iris is closed down, then you are talking double the contrast. That is easily noticeable.

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post #9826 of 9896 Old 12-01-2014, 06:53 PM
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What if the DI is enabled? Was there still a noticeable difference?

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post #9827 of 9896 Old 12-02-2014, 09:07 AM
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What if the DI is enabled? Was there still a noticeable difference?
Folks thought that was the case. I did set the manual iris first ( can't remember to what setting exactly - been 9 months ) and then engaged the D.I. - and ran some scenes of " Pacific Rim ". That looked damn good !

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post #9828 of 9896 Old 12-02-2014, 10:27 AM
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I always hear mixed opinions about what is noticable in regards to contrast/blacks on different JVCs.

For example, I was told if the iris is close to being maximally opened (which it is on my RS4810 at -3 for scope content as I use the zoom method for CIH with just under 700 hours on lamp) there would not be much of a difference compared to other JVC projectors at that same or relative level of opening/light output with the manual iris. But, if you're able to close down the iris (because of a smaller image, throw, etc) then the difference does become more noticable.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread or another, my calibrator Chad B measured something like 78,000:1 with the iris largely opened on a X700 vs 48,000:1 on the 4910. My RS4810 was about 46,000:1 although I don't recall exactly where he had the iris at. I'll be having him out for a re-cal tune-up probably in a couple of months and will see where it's at exactly.


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post #9829 of 9896 Old 12-02-2014, 10:39 AM
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I always hear mixed opinions about what is noticable in regards to contrast/blacks on different JVCs.

For example, I was told if the iris is close to being maximally opened (which it is on my RS4810 at -3 for scope content as I use the zoom method for CIH with just under 700 hours on lamp) there would not be much of a difference compared to other JVC projectors at that same or relative level of opening/light output with the manual iris. But, if you're able to close down the iris (because of a smaller image, throw, etc) then the difference does become more noticable.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread or another, my calibrator Chad B measured something like 78,000:1 with the iris largely opened on a X700 vs 48,000:1 on the 4910. My RS4810 was about 46,000:1 although I don't recall exactly where he had the iris at. I'll be having him out for a re-cal tune-up probably in a couple of months and will see where it's at exactly.
One thing I wonder about is how contrast is affected as you open the IRIS as the lamp dims.

For example if contrast is 46,000:1 with the IRIS at -7 with a new lamp, then as it ages you need to open it to -3 to maintain the same light output does the contrast ratio suffer? Yes the IRIS is now more open but the light passing through it has changed.
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post #9830 of 9896 Old 12-02-2014, 10:54 AM
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One thing I wonder about is how contrast is affected as you open the IRIS as the lamp dims.

For example if contrast is 46,000:1 with the IRIS at -7 with a new lamp, then as it ages you need to open it to -3 to maintain the same light output does the contrast ratio suffer? Yes the IRIS is now more open but the light passing through it has changed.
The contrast ratio should still remain with all things equal and in terms of light output.

However, after quite a few (thousands of) hours there is general contrast degradation as the panels age but that is probably true with any type of display.

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post #9831 of 9896 Old 12-02-2014, 11:00 AM
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The contrast ratio should still remain with all things equal and in terms of light output.

However, after quite a few (thousands of) hours there is general contrast degradation as the panels age but that is probably true with any type of display.
Ok, that is what I have always thought as well.
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post #9832 of 9896 Old 12-02-2014, 11:07 AM
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The contrast ratio should still remain with all things equal and in terms of light output.
If you open up the iris to compensate for the light output drop, then the contrast will drop too.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #9833 of 9896 Old 12-02-2014, 01:37 PM - Thread Starter
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As I mentioned earlier in this thread or another, my calibrator Chad B measured something like 78,000:1 with the iris largely opened on a X700 vs 48,000:1 on the 4910. My RS4810 was about 46,000:1 although I don't recall exactly where he had the iris at. I'll be having him out for a re-cal tune-up probably in a couple of months and will see where it's at exactly.
that info doesn't match Cine4home's data - wide open the X500 and X700 are quite close and also matches my findings using a lab calibrated T10 Minolta. The Dynamic contrast is also the same on both models with wide open iris, ~ 350k:1. the advantage of the X700 comes in once the iris starts cranking down, I would say in in the -8 range is where the #'s start to change. To get into the 78k:1 range as stated above, we're looking at only ~350 lumens or so.

For folks looking for every last ounce of contrast in a light treated / light controlled room and can crank the iris down, it might make sense. Otherwise the DI has helped close the gap between the midrange and higher end models.
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post #9834 of 9896 Old 12-02-2014, 04:38 PM
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that info doesn't match Cine4home's data - wide open the X500 and X700 are quite close and also matches my findings using a lab calibrated T10 Minolta. The Dynamic contrast is also the same on both models with wide open iris, ~ 350k:1. the advantage of the X700 comes in once the iris starts cranking down, I would say in in the -8 range is where the #'s start to change. To get into the 78k:1 range as stated above, we're looking at only ~350 lumens or so.

For folks looking for every last ounce of contrast in a light treated / light controlled room and can crank the iris down, it might make sense. Otherwise the DI has helped close the gap between the midrange and higher end models.
So without the DI you/they were getting about 35,000:1 for about both? Maybe I can get more info from him on other variables when he measured.

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post #9835 of 9896 Old 12-02-2014, 05:01 PM
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So without the DI you/they were getting about 35,000:1 for about both? Maybe I can get more info from him on other variables when he measured.
Check the numbers here:

http://www.cine4home.de/knowhow/Cine...X700_C4HEd.htm

You're looking at 26000:1 vs 31000:1 in high lamp mode with the iris open. That's not a big difference. When we're already in the upper twenty thousands for contrast an extra 5000:1 is almost invisible. Like Zombie said, if you were to use the iris in manual mode you'll really only see a difference past the half way closed mark. Both achieve ~350000:1 dynamic contrast with the X700 being able to dig just a tad deeper. Kris Deering measured 420000:1 on his X700. Cine4home was a little less descriptive saying they both achieve roughly the same dynamic contrast.

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post #9836 of 9896 Old 12-03-2014, 06:06 AM
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Of those of you who have looked at both the JVC X500 and the X700. Would you consider the contrast of X700 to be a substantial upgrade. I have an X500 and my room is as black as it gets. I am set up to maximize the contrast. Just wondering if it would be worth selling my 500 and grabbing a X700 or X900? Or maybe do what I had planned and wait for next years JVCs.





Get a LS10000 instead


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post #9837 of 9896 Old 12-03-2014, 09:55 AM
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Get a LS10000 instead


dj

It is an intriguing unit, but I think I am going to wait until next year. The X500 is no slouch, it is pretty dam impressive, a more then adequate holdover. I get the sense that JVC is going to come out with a stunner next year, I am hoping for a laser based JVC, 4K is not vital to me, but it would be nice to have an even sharper image. More contrast and a long lasting light source are my big 2 wants.

James Reid:D
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post #9838 of 9896 Old 12-03-2014, 02:59 PM
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Of those of you who have looked at both the JVC X500 and the X700. Would you consider the contrast of X700 to be a substantial upgrade. I have an X500 and my room is as black as it gets. I am set up to maximize the contrast. Just wondering if it would be worth selling my 500 and grabbing a X700 or X900? Or maybe do what I had planned and wait for next years JVCs.
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Get a LS10000 instead


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It is an intriguing unit, but I think I am going to wait until next year. The X500 is no slouch, it is pretty dam impressive, a more then adequate holdover. I get the sense that JVC is going to come out with a stunner next year, I am hoping for a laser based JVC, 4K is not vital to me, but it would be nice to have an even sharper image. More contrast and a long lasting light source are my big 2 wants.
I love my X700, and I'm sure the LS10000 is nice, but if you already have an X500 I would at least wait to see what aces JVC, Sony, & Epson have up their sleeves for year 2015. Hopefully they will all be looking to be more competitive with one another in the LED and/or laser light source & native 4K sectors, and at "affordable" prices. Though I have a feeling that a LED/laser native 4K machine from JVC wont come cheap. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say MRSP $15,000.00. It would be nice if it would be a replacement for the X900 and have an MSRP $12,000.00. Both of those numbers are pretty conservative, maybe wishful thinking.

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post #9839 of 9896 Old 12-03-2014, 03:10 PM
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Get a LS10000 instead


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post #9840 of 9896 Old 12-03-2014, 03:19 PM
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Get a LS10000 instead

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Humour is wasted on some.
Now I would love to see a direct A/B comparison of the X700 v/s LS10000. Ready...Fight!

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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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