Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 330 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #9871 of 9896 Old 12-08-2014, 08:50 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: A beautiful view of a lake
Posts: 8,524
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 766 Post(s)
Liked: 565
The two upper level JVC's have a filter to give the image the Xenon look, without the Xenon lamp price.

Mike Garrett, AV Science Sales Call Me: 585-671-2968
Email Me: Mike@AVScience.com
Brands we sell: http://avscience.com/brands/ 
Call for B-stock projectors
Stewart, Seymour, SE, SI, Falcon, DNP & more.
RBH, Martin Logan, Triad, Atlantic Tech., MK Sound, BG Radia, SVS & Def Tech, Denon, Marantz & Yamaha .
AV Science Sales 5 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #9872 of 9896 Old 12-08-2014, 08:52 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Schenectady, New York
Posts: 4,633
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 652 Post(s)
Liked: 327
But it reduces the amount of light output by a pretty good amount.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
For Sale: Marantz VP-15S1 1080p High End DLP Projector - $1295
My Crazy Projector Journey!
Seegs108 is offline  
post #9873 of 9896 Old 12-08-2014, 11:05 PM
Advanced Member
 
Mr. Hatcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 720
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Liked: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
The two upper level JVC's have a filter to give the image the Xenon look, without the Xenon lamp price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
But it reduces the amount of light output by a pretty good amount.
Yeah, it's just a pipe dream of what could've been. LEDs and friggin lasers are the future now. The wavelengths are much more linear and stable over time anyways...and they last much longer, run cooler, etc... The future looks very exciting!

Respectfully,
Mr. Hatcher

Mr. Hatcher's hybrid-HT
Mr. Hatcher is offline  
post #9874 of 9896 Old 12-09-2014, 12:01 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Elix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Dungeon, Pillar of Eyes
Posts: 1,276
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
The two upper level JVC's have a filter to give the image the Xenon look, without the Xenon lamp price.
Do we have measurements? I would like to see color gamut and spectrum graphs with and without that filter.
Mr. Hatcher likes this.
Elix is online now  
post #9875 of 9896 Old 12-09-2014, 05:36 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
stanger89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Marion, IA
Posts: 17,516
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 188 Post(s)
Liked: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post
I wish Xenon lamps lasted longer and were cheaper. It would be nice to have an affordable projector with a Xenon light source with a >95 CRI score. Mercury-vapor is ~60 CRI according to Christie.

I hope the LED and laser light engines have a high CRI. I bought some Cree LED bulbs for my house that have a CRI of 93. They definitely make everything look more "natural". Skin tones look much better and stuff just looks more true-to-life.
I don't think projection lamps and home lamps are the same, especially regarding CRI. For a projector you just need (and really only want) light power centered around the primaries, anything else gets filtered and wasted. Just look at LED and Laser projectors, I bet those have horrid CRI since they have such tight spectra. Conversely at home, you want a nice, wide spectrum that closely matches incandescent so that you provide even light over all colors.
Elix likes this.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
stanger89 is online now  
post #9876 of 9896 Old 12-09-2014, 03:49 PM
Advanced Member
 
Mr. Hatcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 720
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Liked: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
I don't think projection lamps and home lamps are the same, especially regarding CRI. For a projector you just need (and really only want) light power centered around the primaries, anything else gets filtered and wasted. Just look at LED and Laser projectors, I bet those have horrid CRI since they have such tight spectra. Conversely at home, you want a nice, wide spectrum that closely matches incandescent so that you provide even light over all colors.
CRI matters in all bulbs, just as much as color temperature. Although it doesn't matter as much in projection as it does in your home, because we have CMS in our displays. In our home, all we have is the bulb. And then if your walls, ceiling, floors, etc are any colors other than 18% neutral grey then the reflected light from your bulb will be tainted and the colors will no longer get a good grade. My walls are tan, so I need a higher color temperature blueish bulb to bring the reflected color up to where I like it. I wish I had a meter so I could measure the reflected light vs the light straight from the bulb.

The way I understand it is that the more accurate the light source is to D65 100CRI and the reflective surfaces to 18% neutral grey (inside & outside the display), the less you have to worry about calibration.

I believe Darin would be the go-to guru on this, but I don't want to get the thread off-topic.

Respectfully,
Mr. Hatcher

Mr. Hatcher's hybrid-HT
Mr. Hatcher is offline  
post #9877 of 9896 Old 12-09-2014, 06:48 PM
Advanced Member
 
Mr. Hatcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 720
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Liked: 91
Is there a running thread on here discussing HDMI 2.0 & HDCP 2.2?

I just wonder what the timeline is for getting all components standardized to the below specifications???

- HDMI 2.0 Full Implementation with 18 Gbps bandwidth
- HDCP 2.2
- 3840x2160 | 60 Hz | 16-bits | 4:4:4
- 3840x2160 3D | 60 Hz | 16-bits | 4:4:4

Or will HDMI 2.0 ever support those specs?

From what I've read here, it doesn't look like that may even be an option, yet.

I'm not upgrading anything in my chain until everything is compatible and up to standard.

Respectfully,
Mr. Hatcher

Mr. Hatcher's hybrid-HT
Mr. Hatcher is offline  
post #9878 of 9896 Old 12-09-2014, 08:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Schenectady, New York
Posts: 4,633
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 652 Post(s)
Liked: 327
For those interested, Cine4home just posted an informative look into the JVC DLA-X500 and how the unit drifted in color performance and gamma and how much light the unit has lost over a 600 hour period of use.

http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projek...x500_test2.htm

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
For Sale: Marantz VP-15S1 1080p High End DLP Projector - $1295
My Crazy Projector Journey!

Last edited by Seegs108; 12-09-2014 at 08:23 PM.
Seegs108 is offline  
post #9879 of 9896 Old 12-09-2014, 09:20 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
zombie10k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,762
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 380 Post(s)
Liked: 402
that translation was a bit difficult to get through. I'm more interested in his recent discussion in the VW95 thread:


Right now I have a couple of same cases here. Reduced Gamut, low Gamma, blue shift.
This comes together with a massive contrast loss to 1/10. One machine still has 1400:1 native contrast., the other 2300:1


Actually, low usage seems to provoke the Problem.
Right now we have about 20 documented cases (out of about 25 checked machines).
(HW50 / VW90 / VW95)
zombie10k is online now  
post #9880 of 9896 Old 12-09-2014, 10:01 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,068
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Liked: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
that translation was a bit difficult to get through. I'm more interested in his recent discussion in the VW95 thread:


Right now I have a couple of same cases here. Reduced Gamut, low Gamma, blue shift.
This comes together with a massive contrast loss to 1/10. One machine still has 1400:1 native contrast., the other 2300:1


Actually, low usage seems to provoke the Problem.
Right now we have about 20 documented cases (out of about 25 checked machines).
(HW50 / VW90 / VW95)
So you are saying the Sony's lose a disastrous amount of contrast over time, how long?


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

coderguy is offline  
post #9881 of 9896 Old 12-09-2014, 10:06 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
zombie10k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,762
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 380 Post(s)
Liked: 402
that's all the details that were posted but it's a bit alarming to read. especially if low usage provoked the issue. Hopefully he will post more information so there is more context.
zombie10k is online now  
post #9882 of 9896 Old 12-10-2014, 05:42 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
stanger89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Marion, IA
Posts: 17,516
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 188 Post(s)
Liked: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post
CRI matters in all bulbs, just as much as color temperature. Although it doesn't matter as much in projection as it does in your home, because we have CMS in our displays. In our home, all we have is the bulb. And then if your walls, ceiling, floors, etc are any colors other than 18% neutral grey then the reflected light from your bulb will be tainted and the colors will no longer get a good grade. My walls are tan, so I need a higher color temperature blueish bulb to bring the reflected color up to where I like it. I wish I had a meter so I could measure the reflected light vs the light straight from the bulb.

The way I understand it is that the more accurate the light source is to D65 100CRI and the reflective surfaces to 18% neutral grey (inside & outside the display), the less you have to worry about calibration.

I believe Darin would be the go-to guru on this, but I don't want to get the thread off-topic.
The way I understand CRI is that it's a metric of how closely the color of a color illuminated with a light source matches that of the same color illuminated with a black body radiator of the same color temperature:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_rendering_index

I think projectors would "fail" a CRI test misserably because they output only very narrow spectra once filtered for Red/Blue/Green. They also only need Red/Blue/Green from their light source. For example a Red LED/Laser would have a terrible CRI. I'm pretty sure to have a good CRI you need to have a spectrum that matches that of a black body radiator (ie output all colors of the spectrum relatively evenly). But we don't need that for a projector, we just need Red/Green/Blue.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
stanger89 is online now  
post #9883 of 9896 Old 12-10-2014, 05:18 PM
Advanced Member
 
Mr. Hatcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 720
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Liked: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
The way I understand CRI is that it's a metric of how closely the color of a color illuminated with a light source matches that of the same color illuminated with a black body radiator of the same color temperature:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_rendering_index

I think projectors would "fail" a CRI test misserably because they output only very narrow spectra once filtered for Red/Blue/Green. They also only need Red/Blue/Green from their light source. For example a Red LED/Laser would have a terrible CRI. I'm pretty sure to have a good CRI you need to have a spectrum that matches that of a black body radiator (ie output all colors of the spectrum relatively evenly). But we don't need that for a projector, we just need Red/Green/Blue.
Yes, this is true. I may be wrong in my thinking here, but it just seems like a perfect projector lamp should output D65 100CRI for optimum reproduction of color (how it was graded post production), assuming you're not going to play with the CMS and/or calibration? If the lamp itself could output D65 100CRI (which none can that I have seen) and maintain that over the life of the lamp, we wouldn't need to worry about having a CMS or calibration. But some people don't like the image to conform to standards Rec.709 D65, some prefer oversaturated colors, so it's kind of a mute point I guess. This stuff fascinates me though.

Here's a good read that explains it a little better than I can. It's not in reference to display tech, but it made it all make "a little" more sense to me.

Verivide has some bulbs that are D65 98CRI, but they are for color grading suites.

And both of the wiki pages below have really good info. You already pointed out the top one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_rendering_index
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_illuminant

I don't think it really matters (projection works fine how it is now), I was just reading and the wheels got to turning so I figured I would pick some brains about it. Most people believe if it ain't broke, don't fix it. But I just like to try to think of different/better solutions to get the same/better results. But once you factor in cost, then it all goes downhill from there.

Respectfully,
Mr. Hatcher

Mr. Hatcher's hybrid-HT
Mr. Hatcher is offline  
post #9884 of 9896 Old 12-10-2014, 07:13 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
darinp2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 21,236
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Liked: 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
For those interested, Cine4home just posted an informative look into the JVC DLA-X500 and how the unit drifted in color performance and gamma and how much light the unit has lost over a 600 hour period of use.

http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projek...x500_test2.htm
I noticed that they mentioned a price drop of over 20% recently for the X500 in Euros. I wonder if the US has or will get a price adjustment.

Some good information there. Sure seems like JVC turned things around from when projectors were dimming fast. I was hoping to see what putting a new lamp in would have done to the gamut and gamma on the unit that had been run for 600 hours though.

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
darinp2 is offline  
post #9885 of 9896 Old 12-11-2014, 05:48 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
stanger89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Marion, IA
Posts: 17,516
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 188 Post(s)
Liked: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post
Yes, this is true. I may be wrong in my thinking here, but it just seems like a perfect projector lamp should output D65 100CRI for optimum reproduction of color (how it was graded post production), assuming you're not going to play with the CMS and/or calibration? If the lamp itself could output D65 100CRI (which none can that I have seen) and maintain that over the life of the lamp, we wouldn't need to worry about having a CMS or calibration. But some people don't like the image to conform to standards Rec.709 D65, some prefer oversaturated colors, so it's kind of a mute point I guess. This stuff fascinates me though.
The difference is with a projector (or TV, or any color display device) you're not illuminating colored objects, you're creating colored light. The big difference is with a projector you filter have to filter the spectrum down to three narrow bands. Here's an example of a high CRI bulb spectrum:

https://plus.google.com/102520196326...ts/A6FroPHhSux
Note the dashed black body curve. This bulb is high CRI because it has a full spectrum that is smooth and closely matches that of a blackbody of the came color temperature.

Here's what a UHP lamp's spectrum looks like:


And an LED projector's spectrum:

http://www.cine4home.de/Specials/Viv...20Preview3.htm

Note how the projector's spectra have very high peaks and very large valleys, and do not follow a smooth black body curve at all. I'm not saying a high CRI bulb wouldn't work well for a projector, I'm just saying you really don't need one because you have to filter most of that nice smooth spectrum (what makes that bulb high CRI) out, to get the pure primary colors you need for creating color images.

Given that for projection (or any color video display) we need the three primary colors, I think native RGB LED and Laser light sources are the ideal light sources since they don't require filtering, and the massive amount of light loss that entails.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
stanger89 is online now  
post #9886 of 9896 Old 12-11-2014, 05:39 PM
Advanced Member
 
Mr. Hatcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 720
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Liked: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
The difference is with a projector (or TV, or any color display device) you're not illuminating colored objects, you're creating colored light. The big difference is with a projector you filter have to filter the spectrum down to three narrow bands. Here's an example of a high CRI bulb spectrum:
https://plus.google.com/102520196326...ts/A6FroPHhSux
Note the dashed black body curve. This bulb is high CRI because it has a full spectrum that is smooth and closely matches that of a blackbody of the came color temperature.

Here's what a UHP lamp's spectrum looks like:

And an LED projector's spectrum:
http://www.cine4home.de/Specials/Viv...20Preview3.htm

Note how the projector's spectra have very high peaks and very large valleys, and do not follow a smooth black body curve at all. I'm not saying a high CRI bulb wouldn't work well for a projector, I'm just saying you really don't need one because you have to filter most of that nice smooth spectrum (what makes that bulb high CRI) out, to get the pure primary colors you need for creating color images.

Given that for projection (or any color video display) we need the three primary colors, I think native RGB LED and Laser light sources are the ideal light sources since they don't require filtering, and the massive amount of light loss that entails.
Thank you for the detailed explanation and illustrations. That does make more sense now that I can look at it from your perspective. I definitely agree that should equate to better overall color with LED and laser light engines since they shouldn't have to be filtered (assuming they are using individual RGB light sources). The only thing I worry about with lasers is the sparkling. I'm sure LED has some cons as well. But it sounds like both should be all around much more efficient than current lamp based models.

And sounds like marketing gimmickry for manufacturers promoting that xenon is better than mercury lamps, since they will both be filtered down to only the primaries (RGB) anyways. Just one has to be filtered a little more than the other.

This stuff makes me want to go back to school to be an engineer. The longer I work in IT, the more I dislike it, LOL! I would much rather be doing A/V stuff, but it would have to be something with a quick return on investment. I just can't afford to take a pay cut. But I better decide soon while I'm young, motivated and passionate.
cardoski and Elix like this.

Respectfully,
Mr. Hatcher

Mr. Hatcher's hybrid-HT
Mr. Hatcher is offline  
post #9887 of 9896 Old 12-12-2014, 06:36 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
stanger89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Marion, IA
Posts: 17,516
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 188 Post(s)
Liked: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post
And sounds like marketing gimmickry for manufacturers promoting that xenon is better than mercury lamps, since they will both be filtered down to only the primaries (RGB) anyways. Just one has to be filtered a little more than the other.
I think if you look at the spectra of Xenon vs UHP, you'll see it's not really gimmicry, though the marketing itself probably is, it's probably easier to give a simple incorrect explanation than to explain the real technical details. Xenon has a "better" spectrum, yes they both need to be filtered, but unlike UHP, Xenon isn't starved for Red so it's easier to filter and requires less "post processing" to get the correct levels. I think it's also easier to get a wider gamut with Xenon (less light loss) since the "native" spectrum of Xenon is wider.

Quote:
This stuff makes me want to go back to school to be an engineer. The longer I work in IT, the more I dislike it, LOL! I would much rather be doing A/V stuff, but it would have to be something with a quick return on investment. I just can't afford to take a pay cut. But I better decide soon while I'm young, motivated and passionate.
I know what you mean.
Mr. Hatcher likes this.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
stanger89 is online now  
post #9888 of 9896 Old 12-12-2014, 07:21 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: A beautiful view of a lake
Posts: 8,524
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 766 Post(s)
Liked: 565
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
I think if you look at the spectra of Xenon vs UHP, you'll see it's not really gimmicry, though the marketing itself probably is, it's probably easier to give a simple incorrect explanation than to explain the real technical details. Xenon has a "better" spectrum, yes they both need to be filtered, but unlike UHP, Xenon isn't starved for Red so it's easier to filter and requires less "post processing" to get the correct levels. I think it's also easier to get a wider gamut with Xenon (less light loss) since the "native" spectrum of Xenon is wider.



I know what you mean.
Correct.

Mike Garrett, AV Science Sales Call Me: 585-671-2968
Email Me: Mike@AVScience.com
Brands we sell: http://avscience.com/brands/ 
Call for B-stock projectors
Stewart, Seymour, SE, SI, Falcon, DNP & more.
RBH, Martin Logan, Triad, Atlantic Tech., MK Sound, BG Radia, SVS & Def Tech, Denon, Marantz & Yamaha .
AV Science Sales 5 is online now  
post #9889 of 9896 Old 12-12-2014, 04:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Schenectady, New York
Posts: 4,633
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 652 Post(s)
Liked: 327
I found the next projector Zombie needs to review:

http://www.amazon.com/Luckies-2968-S...?tag=tmcave-20

Some interesting features:

*New 2.0 Model
*Comes Already Assembled
*New Brown Color
*Works with Android and iphone
Elix likes this.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
For Sale: Marantz VP-15S1 1080p High End DLP Projector - $1295
My Crazy Projector Journey!
Seegs108 is offline  
post #9890 of 9896 Old 12-13-2014, 08:01 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
zombie10k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,762
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 380 Post(s)
Liked: 402
I want one! I bet the native contrast of my S4 will smoke the JVC's in low APL content...
zombie10k is online now  
post #9891 of 9896 Old 12-14-2014, 10:52 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,068
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Liked: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I want one! I bet the native contrast of my S4 will smoke the JVC's in low APL content...
Will you be selling your vw-1100es for this unit, that is the $10,000 question...?

This thread has 679k views, you must have a lot of IP addresses :P
(only kidding)


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....


Last edited by coderguy; 12-14-2014 at 10:56 PM.
coderguy is offline  
post #9892 of 9896 Old 12-14-2014, 11:18 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
zombie10k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,762
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 380 Post(s)
Liked: 402
you disappeared for a while, there was a lot of interesting conversations going on. There's a few more good topics coming up.
zombie10k is online now  
post #9893 of 9896 Old 12-14-2014, 11:22 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,068
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Liked: 157
I was here invisibly, I just didn't post much because I've seen almost NO new projectors this year in person, except for the hc7900 (which I liked a lot but didn't like the brightness for my setup). I actually thought it was very sharp (the model I had), very very close to the w7000, but it had to be mounted at farthest throw to get the max sharpness. It was sharper than the Mits hc4000. Also I'd rather have had the hc8000 instead.

That said, I kind of wish I had kept the hc7900 (got it on a firestorm blowout sale for $799 I think, but returned it). Now you cannot even find any 3D DLP with an IRIS under $2000 anymore except the Benq, so sad. The Sharps are still $3000+. The IRIS on the Mits didn't work very good, but I'd say it was better than the Benq Iris (Mits was more noticeable, but at least it did something). The Iris on the w7000 just sits there and goes "duh dum duh" until the scene goes 99.9999% black, then it goes OK down.

I hope the DLP makers come out with something new and worthy, but I don't have high hopes because LCOS has taken over DLP sales in the $1500+ realm, unless we are talking $5000+ in which no way am I paying that for a DLP.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....


Last edited by coderguy; 12-14-2014 at 11:25 PM.
coderguy is offline  
post #9894 of 9896 Old 12-15-2014, 09:03 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 0
3D is really a topic into itself, cine4home does not publish the L/R patterns. The actual details are often very technical, more-so than some other assessment, yet it really is nevertheless hard to gauge the 3D efficiency without the screenshots with the glasses such as we've carried out around the shoot-out threads. It's the 1 moment a screenshot can actually count regarding one thing.
aboveave is offline  
post #9895 of 9896 Old 12-15-2014, 03:01 PM
Advanced Member
 
Mr. Hatcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 720
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Liked: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
I think if you look at the spectra of Xenon vs UHP, you'll see it's not really gimmicry, though the marketing itself probably is, it's probably easier to give a simple incorrect explanation than to explain the real technical details. Xenon has a "better" spectrum, yes they both need to be filtered, but unlike UHP, Xenon isn't starved for Red so it's easier to filter and requires less "post processing" to get the correct levels. I think it's also easier to get a wider gamut with Xenon (less light loss) since the "native" spectrum of Xenon is wider.
Yeah, most people couldn't care less how this stuff actually works so it would be a waste of time and resources for manufacturers to even try to get all technical about "why and how" product A is better than product B. Most people just want to press a button and watch the magic happen. But yeah, I definitely understand what you're saying here as it does make sense. I just like to know what's going on behind the scenes so I can better understand and discuss this stuff. So I really do appreciate your time here.

Respectfully,
Mr. Hatcher

Mr. Hatcher's hybrid-HT
Mr. Hatcher is offline  
post #9896 of 9896 Old 12-15-2014, 03:06 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,068
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Liked: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post
Yeah, most people couldn't care less how this stuff actually works so it would be a waste of time and resources for manufacturers to even try to get all technical about "why and how" product A is better than product B. Most people just want to press a button and watch the magic happen.
Yup, just like trying to figure out Lumens / fL and other measurements, most people don't care.

If anyone does care, I just did some research on why F-Stop calculations do NOT match up to what people measure from shortest to longest throw, and I posted it in my Calc thread (thought about posting it in a new thread, but didn't feel like it).

Since this thread is kind of slow right now, here is the link to what I found for anyone interested:
Why F-Stop Calculations are inaccurate for projectors

...


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....


Last edited by coderguy; 12-15-2014 at 03:09 PM.
coderguy is offline  
post #9897 of 9896 Old Today, 09:56 AM
Senior Member
 
clausdk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Denmark
Posts: 431
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 47
Those L/R 3D test images, where can I find those? Found the DDD website, but are they on some calibration disc?
clausdk is online now  
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

Tags
Benq W7000 Home Projection System , Jvc Dla Rs55 Bundle , Jvc Dla Rs45 Home Theater Projector 1080p Hdmi , Epson V11h502020 Powerlite Home Cinema 3020e 2d And 3d 1080p Wireless Home Theater Projector , Sony Vpl Hw50es 3d Projector , Epson 5010 Powerlite Home Cinema 3d Front Projector , Epson Powerlite Home Cinema 3010 2d And 3d Projector V11h421020 , Panasonic Ptae8000u Hd Projector , Mitsubishi Hc7900dw Home Theater 3d Projector , Mitsubishi Hc8000dbl Dlp 3d Home Theater Projector With Spare Lamp 1300 Ansi 12 6 Lbs , Darbeevision Darblet Hdmi Video Processor , Epson 5020ub Powerlite Home Cinema 3d Front Projector
Gear in this thread - V11h421020 by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off