Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 331 - AVS Forum
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post #9901 of 9925 Old Yesterday, 02:15 PM
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Why do you think it is a bias? I assume most people here like myself have seen it and didn't really care for it. I can't remember anyone at Cedia saying there was a must see 3D demo or 3D even being mentioned for that matter. The last time 3D was raved about was Cineramax's 3D demo at the '10 Cedia.

I should add that I have seen 3D in the theater in Imax and regular. In the home, I have seen it on Craig Round's G90 CRT (basically about the best you can do for CRT), DLP and LCOS. Also, I saw it on Mits laservue and thought this was one of the better 3D pictures, but IIRC Darin said there may have been reason for that.

The end result is I have seen one, I repeat, one film that I liked in 3D and that was Cap America Winter Soldier. A pleasant surprise, but definitely an anomaly.

Honestly, outside of you and a few others here no one really cares about 3D. I find it interesting that a forum devoted to home theater enthusiasts has pretty much turned their back on 3D.
The big problems with 3D, whether commercial or at home are brightness, ghosting and flicker. HT projectors like the Sharp 30000 and Mits 8000 are virtually ghost-free and depending on settings can be pretty much flicker free as well. To overcome the brightness issue they require a 2.8 gain moderately sized HP screen. IMO this will give you the best 3D outside of spending a considerable amount of money on a Super Lumis, which is ghost-free, flicker-free and very bright in 3D mode. If you haven't seen bright, flicker and ghost-free 3D then you haven't seen 3D in the way it's meant to be seen. The G90 simply isn't bright enough (I owned one) and the same holds true for LCOS and most DLPs. LCOS also has issues with flicker and ghosting.

Someday we'll have this kind of 3D at home at an affordable price and perhaps then people will change their minds about 3D.

"This is massively important for two reasons. First and foremost, the Lumis 3D-S’ extreme refresh rate per eye should eliminate that most dreaded of domestic 3D phenomena, crosstalk. But also it should kick into touch another massive objection to active 3D technology: flickering." and

"The net result of all the Lumis 3D-S’ extreme efforts is, as we couldn’t help but reveal right at the top of this review, extraordinary. The thing that hit us the hardest right away, like a 3D lightning bolt, was the complete absence of any crosstalk from 3D pictures. Seriously, there just isn’t ANY of the telltale ghosting at all, even during infamous crosstalk-inspiring scenes like the lantern sequence in Tangled or the bike fight in Tron."

"And believe us when we say the 3D-S really can drive some serious screen acreage, even with its effective brightness compromised by the 3D glasses, thanks to the power of the projector’s lamp and the extreme efficiency of the projector’s light engine. This achievement would actually have been enough in itself to underline the 3D-S’ high-end status even without the complete freedom from crosstalk.

Given how bright the Lumis 3D-S can be with 3D footage, it’s also remarkable to be able to enjoy such punchy 3D images without a trace of flicker – again proving the worth of Sim2’s decision to engineer triple-flash technology into a domesticated projector for the first time."

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post #9902 of 9925 Old Yesterday, 02:17 PM
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The biggest problems for 3D are ghosting and brightness.
Na, its the glasses.. if you already need to wear glasses to see, 3D sucks in it's current implementation before any of the image issues are even brought into the mix.
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post #9903 of 9925 Old Yesterday, 02:50 PM
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Someday we'll have this kind of 3D at home at an affordable price and perhaps then people will change their minds about 3D.
I think you're in for a big let down. 3D is already fading out and will be dead within 2 years. By the time we get a solution (brighter projectors without flicker) people will have already moved on from 3D and without new content coming out no one will care about absolute 3D performance. For the most part, probably ~ 90% of all 3D material is gimmicky and not worth the premium over the 2D offering. Most people aren't willing to invest in new technology so they can take advantage of the movies few and far between worth owning. You have to remember that most people are not like you (even the enthusiasts) in that they don't particularly care for 3D in general. This is why I have my doubts.
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post #9904 of 9925 Old Yesterday, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post
Someday we'll have this kind of 3D at home at an affordable price and perhaps then people will change their minds about 3D.
I think you're in for a big let down. 3D is already fading out and will be dead within 2 years. By the time we get a solution (brighter projectors without flicker) people will have already moved on from 3D and without new content coming out no one will care about absolute 3D performance. For the most part, probably ~ 90% of all 3D material is gimmicky and not worth the premium over the 2D offering. Most people aren't willing to invest in new technology so they can take advantage of the movies few and far between worth owning. You have to remember that most people are not like you (even the enthusiasts) in that they don't particularly care for 3D in general. This is why I have my doubts.
I feel the same seegs.
3D is fun in some way. But when you see how good 2D is today I pick that before 3D any day.
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post #9905 of 9925 Old Yesterday, 03:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post
The big problems with 3D, whether commercial or at home are brightness, ghosting and flicker. HT projectors like the Sharp 30000 and Mits 8000 are virtually ghost-free and depending on settings can be pretty much flicker free as well. To overcome the brightness issue they require a 2.8 gain moderately sized HP screen. IMO this will give you the best 3D outside of spending a considerable amount of money on a Super Lumis, which is ghost-free, flicker-free and very bright in 3D mode. If you haven't seen bright, flicker and ghost-free 3D then you haven't seen 3D in the way it's meant to be seen. The G90 simply isn't bright enough (I owned one) and the same holds true for LCOS and most DLPs. LCOS also has issues with flicker and ghosting.
this is partially what's responsible for the lack of interest. most folks setup's aren't designed to handle the light loss of the 3D. if I didn't have a large 2.8HP I probably wouldn't be as interested watching dim 3D. It needs to be bright, flicker free, ghost free and with comfortable glasses. Those items are key for great 3D and most setups don't have it.

what I don't get are forum members who crusade against it. It's now a feature built into most projectors, you have to get over it if you don't care for it. just ignore it, there's always a 2D version of the same movie to watch.

It's not going away in 2 years. Disney and Marvell continue to crank out every single movie they make in 3D, Guardians of the Galaxy was a blast in 3D, shame for those who missed out on it if watching in 2D only. Cameron will get people crazy again (like it or not) with Avatar 2. Jurassic World is 3D in 2015. Also The Force Awakens stars is being released in 2D, 3D and IMAX 3D on December 18, 2015. Pacific Rim 2 will be in 3D, etc.


some of my favorite 3D content is the documentaries and 3D concerts.
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post #9906 of 9925 Old Yesterday, 03:57 PM
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Na, its the glasses.. if you already need to wear glasses to see, 3D sucks in it's current implementation before any of the image issues are even brought into the mix.
I agree. It's mostly the glasses. When 3D movies are as easy and convenient to watch as 2D, we'll see more converts. I also think Deja Vu makes a good point about depth perception. My depth perception is quite good, and I think that fact is a big reason for my love of 3D. I see no reason to believe 3D is going away, as long as there are enough people who see it as a significant enhancement to the viewing experience. I believe there are a lot of those people out there. Remove the glasses impediment and those people won't have a problem with 3D.

Not that I expect many people who are anti-3D to take me up on this idea, but I'd invite them to put a patch over one eye and walk around for a couple of hours, inside and outside. If they don't see much difference in their world, I understand why they don't think that much of 3D films. I suspect there are a lot of those people, too. If, on the other hand, they perceive the "one-eyed" experience as having detracted from their perception of the world around them, I think that's ample justification for the existence of 3D movies. If having two eyes makes the real world more interesting and fulfilling, why shouldn't seeing movies in 3D be equally as rewarding?

3D movies make up a significant part of my collection (about 160 titles). 3D movies continue to be released at a decent clip, and probably in a similar ratio of good to bad as 2D films. I, too, believe that 3D's technological hurdles will be overcome. I have no desire to go back to black and white films with mono sound. I like color. I like surround sound. I look forward to Dolby Atmo expanding that to full hemispherical surround sound. I have faith that when 3D's limitations are eliminated, more people (including the AV enthusiasts here on AVS) will embrace it, too.
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post #9907 of 9925 Old Yesterday, 04:00 PM
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this is partially what's responsible for the lack of interest. most folks setup's aren't designed to handle the light loss of the 3D. if I didn't have a large 2.8HP I probably wouldn't be as interested watching dim 3D. It needs to be bright, flicker free, ghost free and with comfortable glasses. Those items are key for great 3D and most setups don't have it.

what I don't get are forum members who crusade against it. It's now a feature built into most projectors, you have to get over it if you don't care for it. just ignore it, there's always a 2D version of the same movie to watch.

It's not going away in 2 years. Disney and Marvell continue to crank out every single movie they make in 3D, Guardians of the Galaxy was a blast in 3D, shame for those who missed out on it if watching in 2D only. Cameron will get people crazy again (like it or not) with Avatar 2. Jurassic World is 3D in 2015. Also The Force Awakens stars is being released in 2D, 3D and IMAX 3D on December 18, 2015. Pacific Rim 2 will be in 3D, etc.


some of my favorite 3D content is the documentaries and 3D concerts.

Thousands of movies are released every year. Just because you have a half dozen examples of major movies being released in the next 24 months doesn't mean 3D is doing well or that somehow it will make the kind of resurgence it did 4 or 5 years ago. In general 3D hype has been long gone and the dwindling amount of 3D released movies over the past couple years is a clear indication that the movie studios think so too.

If you take a look at this list you'll see the number of 3D movies released in 2010 through 2014 per year is SOO much greater than the planned releases of movies in 2015:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_3D_films

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post #9908 of 9925 Old Yesterday, 04:16 PM - Thread Starter
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yes, I heard the same story 3 years and 2 years ago, etc. I don't need quantity, there's tons of crap movies made in 2D. the select 3D movies, concerts and documentaries that I watch are enjoyable and everyone who visits always comments on how great it looks.

I created this thread and it's predecessor specifically for people who also have an interest in 3D and that still stands today. And of course there's plenty of 2D talk as well. it's a thread to discuss all things related to projectors.

everyone has a choice, watch it in 2D and simply ignore the 3D. again, it's not going anyway for a little while despite the angst against it. let's not spoil it for those who like it.
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post #9909 of 9925 Old Yesterday, 04:20 PM
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I have no issue with watching 3D. In general, when it's done well, I like to watch movies in 3D. I just think it's a fair point to say it's dying. I don't think making that point "spoils" it for people.

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post #9910 of 9925 Old Yesterday, 04:38 PM - Thread Starter
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In 2009 after Avatar's resurgence of 3D, of course every production house in the world was trying to release 3D to try and capitalize on it's popularity. Crap conversions like the Clash of the Titans and awful B movie releases just added quantity (Piranha 3D anyone?). They were equally bad as 2D movies..

I don't mind that a few select 3D movies comes out each year that I know myself and guests will enjoy. Some of the amazing BBC IMAX documentaries showcase the technology even better than a good 3D movie. Dying to me indicates that studios are working to get away from it. All I see is a reduction of garbage that shouldn't have been there in the first place. James Cameron, Marvel, Disney, JJ Abrams and other big studios are still embracing it for now. I bet most 2015 and 2016 projectors will still have 3D.

Some conversations are done amazingly. Jurassic Park and Titantic come to mind, very well done. JP for me, was much more fun in 3D. It gave a real sense of space to the landscape and was more convincing than watching it in 2D.
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post #9911 of 9925 Old Yesterday, 04:40 PM
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I have no issue with watching 3D. In general, when it's done well, I like to watch movies in 3D. I just think it's a fair point to say it's dying. I don't think making that point "spoils" it for people.
You may be right but how many times does 3D have to die before it's finally dead?
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post #9912 of 9925 Old Yesterday, 04:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Not that I expect many people who are anti-3D to take me up on this idea, but I'd invite them to put a patch over one eye and walk around for a couple of hours, inside and outside. If they don't see much difference in their world, I understand why they don't think that much of 3D films. I suspect there are a lot of those people, too. If, on the other hand, they perceive the "one-eyed" experience as having detracted from their perception of the world around them, I think that's ample justification for the existence of 3D movies. If having two eyes makes the real world more interesting and fulfilling, why shouldn't seeing movies in 3D be equally as rewarding?
this is an interesting topic, that people perceive depth in different ways. i'm definitely conscious of it and can get disoriented if one of my eyes is obstructed.

good to see you still on the forum. I'm watching this BBC doc later tonight, these guys always do a great job with their 3D presentations

http://www.amazon.com/Attenboroughs-...dp/B00HW4PACK/
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post #9913 of 9925 Old Yesterday, 05:58 PM - Thread Starter
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how about we change the topic to Laser vs. LED vs. UHP technology, that is always bound to stir up a conversation.

this many be an odd way of looking it at, but I like being able to replace a lamp and get back to out of the box performance. There's a number of people here who still use their JVC RS1 and Planar 8150's from 6-7 years ago and can put in a fresh lamp, back in action for a few thousand more hours. I certainly see the advantage for heavy users though.

For Led vs. Laser, I feel like I'd have a better chance after the warranty expires hunting down some LED's vs. a laser module / phosphor wheel. Swapping out LED's should be a piece of cake after dissecting a DLP and swapping out the panel. heck, I would find the LED's now and keep the spares around if I knew I was keeping the projector longer than warranty.

i'd feel better paying a premium for laser if I knew the laser was modular.
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post #9914 of 9925 Old Yesterday, 06:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Seagate has release an 8TB drive for only $260. that is a great price. It's no speed demon, but should be plenty in a RAID to stream BD ISO to a media player. I'm using WD 3TB red drives and there is never a hiccup using NFS.

http://www.extremetech.com/computing...b-for-just-260

it might be time for a storage rebuild soon, I wouldn't mind 8 of these in my tower to swap out the 3TB models.

I remember back in the 90's when the 6.4GB IBM 'Death Star' was a big deal. And my 40 MB drive on the Commodore Amiga in the late 80's. wow have we come a long way with storage capacity. We can thank the pr0n industry for high speed internet, efficient video codecs and large hard drives.
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post #9915 of 9925 Old Yesterday, 06:36 PM
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I like the longer calibration hold and longer "fresh lamp" lumen output the lasers have but I think you're right about the availability and limited end user replacement possibilities that lasers have. This is bad for projectors, especially if we can only expect 10000 hours out of it in high lamp mode which the Epson quotes (still only 1100 D65 lumens, which dims over time). From what others have told me, the light the phosphor creates when ignited cannot be used to create a color gamut as large what we can get from LEDs.

Lasers also seem to pose a threat to single chip DLP projectors too. The reason we're able to use LEDs with single chip DLP projectors stems from the fact that they can replicate how a color wheel works. The LEDs can do sequential color. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think a laser/phosphor wheel can do this. It creates yellow light that is then filtered to get red and green and another laser is used (without a phosphor wheel) just for blue as this is the spectrum of color that is typically the weakest coming from yellow light/a UHP lamp (makes sense, right?). The laser/phosphor wheel combo dims over their lifetime and creates a limited native color gamut over LEDs (it seems the native color gamut is more reminiscent of a UHP lamp) due to the yellow light that's created being very similar to what a UHP lamp puts out.

LEDs can create a longer lasting light source at full brightness (which seems to be their entire life span as in they don't dim), a larger color gamut, are single chip DLP friendly, hold calibrations longer, can be modulated dynamically and used as a dynamic iris implementation along with the lasers, can be legally swapped out by an end user as I'm sure a bulb-like cage can be made that can be simply swapped out, and higher lumen output LEDs are currently out there (ala Sim2).

I personally find LEDs more interesting and a more friendly solution with less issues with the things most of us enthusiasts want from a light source. The one issue I don't like about them is all of the LED projectors I've owned (5 different LED models) is that all of them had an annoying "buzz" sound when the LEDs were called for 100% light output (or some integer close to 100%). I think it has to do with the high amperage the LED's are pulling at/near 100%. 30 amps is what the spec sheets say. But this is low voltage on the LED controller board, not from the power supply connected to your wall, aka 120/220+ circuit in your home. I hope a redesign or high sound dampening can get rid of this issue.

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post #9916 of 9925 Old Yesterday, 07:10 PM
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this is an interesting topic, that people perceive depth in different ways. i'm definitely conscious of it and can get disoriented if one of my eyes is obstructed.

good to see you still on the forum. I'm watching this BBC doc later tonight, these guys always do a great job with their 3D presentations

http://www.amazon.com/Attenboroughs-...dp/B00HW4PACK/
Sorry, can't let the topic drop quite yet.

Several months ago, I learned that the Attenborough title you refer to is playing in London's Natural History Museum on Ultra-D glasses-free displays. I've yet to see it, but it got me thinking about the potential of glasses-free displays for that sort of venue. More recently, I found out that StreamTV, the inventors of Ultra-D technology, has been swamped with requests from organizations that are interested in acquiring the sets. Despite the apparent waning of enthusiasm for 3D, this technology alone gives me renewed hope that the biggest obstacle to 3D's more widespread adoption - GLASSES - will go away. If they can finally deliver 3D sets that make watching 3D as easy as watching 2D, I think 3D has its best chance.

I'm always lurking around here, but I've spent most of my spare time lately finishing up the first serious draft of my Missouri Botanical Garden Blu-ray 3D video. Most of my AVS activity has been in the threads dedicated to shooting, editing and authoring 3D. Mine is an extremely modest little video. Imax and Attenborough don't need to worry about the competition. But it's been a blast, and I've learned a lot about the technology over the last three and a half years. It's also made me appreciate how much it's going to take to nudge more quality filmmakers into doing 3D. Thank God for Cameron, and the likes of a Scorsese with his "Hugo."

My hope is that soon I'll walk into a Best Buy and see a clip from Avatar 2 playing on a glasses-free 3D TV. The industry may have soured on 3D for now, but another $3 billion 3D success story could make them forget how badly they bungled 3D's roll-out in 2010.

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post #9917 of 9925 Old Yesterday, 07:21 PM
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Seagate has release an 8TB drive for only $260. that is a great price. It's no speed demon, but should be plenty in a RAID to stream BD ISO to a media player. I'm using WD 3TB red drives and there is never a hiccup using NFS.

http://www.extremetech.com/computing...b-for-just-260

it might be time for a storage rebuild soon, I wouldn't mind 8 of these in my tower to swap out the 3TB models.

I remember back in the 90's when the 6.4GB IBM 'Death Star' was a big deal. And my 40 MB drive on the Commodore Amiga in the late 80's. wow have we come a long way with storage capacity. We can thank the pr0n industry for high speed internet, efficient video codecs and large hard drives.
That 8TB drive got me excited, too. I'll probably build an array with several of them sometime early next year.

Someone dinged my bumper in the late 80's. Instead of having the little dimple fixed, I spent the $600 on an 80mb SCSI hard drive for my Amiga 2000. It was a great deal at the time, and I considered myself lucky.

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post #9918 of 9925 Old Yesterday, 08:32 PM
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Sorry, can't let the topic drop quite yet.

My hope is that soon I'll walk into a Best Buy and see a clip from Avatar 2 playing on a glasses-free 3D TV. The industry may have soured on 3D for now, but another $3 billion 3D success story could make them forget how badly they bungled 3D's roll-out in 2010.
Post conversion (IMO) can be so good now that with a little forethought a director can go the easier route and shoot in 2D with 3D in mind and end up with stunning 3D. Throw in glassless 3D T.V. sets and maybe, just maybe, 3D could become mainstream.
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post #9919 of 9925 Old Yesterday, 10:33 PM
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Post conversion (IMO) can be so good now that with a little forethought a director can go the easier route and shoot in 2D with 3D in mind and end up with stunning 3D. Throw in glassless 3D T.V. sets and maybe, just maybe, 3D could become mainstream.
Agreed. The Avengers was an excellent example of this.

I saw it in theaters twice in 3D.
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post #9920 of 9925 Old Yesterday, 11:26 PM
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Wow, this is hilarious. I really got Deja Vu's panties in a wad.

So, it is either the user, the equipment or both. By your logic, if most do not have this great depth perception, then why should they even bother with 3D? Why should the studios bother if there is only a small subset of the population that can really appreciate 3D? Also, if there is only a limited option of equipment which is further reduced by the set up, then again why bother?

I find it interesting that you say people crusade against 3D on the forum. I don't see a lot of people actively crusading against it. I think most people have tried it and don't really care for it. Because of this, they prefer to focus on the best 2D performance and hoping the manufacturers put most of their resources into developing 2D instead of 3D. Honestly, the only person I see crusading is Deja Vu who seems to put 3D into just about every post he makes.

As for the Craig's G90, I only mentioned it because he helped develop 3D on the Lumagen and I doubt there is any CRT doing 3D better. I wanted to make sure that I had complete list, as I don't believe I was biased going into 3D (as Deja Vu stated). The end result is I didn't just watch one clip or film on one type of display. I have seen most and still do not care for it. As my friend Steve Crabb has said "4k is more 3D than 3D", so bring on the good 4k.

Finally, I hope Hugo was better on BR than it was in the theater. I must have taken my glasses off four or five times during that movie. IIRC I watched a good portion of it without my glasses.

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post #9921 of 9925 Old Today, 02:45 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
Seagate has release an 8TB drive for only $260. that is a great price. It's no speed demon, but should be plenty in a RAID to stream BD ISO to a media player. I'm using WD 3TB red drives and there is never a hiccup using NFS.

http://www.extremetech.com/computing...b-for-just-260

it might be time for a storage rebuild soon, I wouldn't mind 8 of these in my tower to swap out the 3TB models.

I remember back in the 90's when the 6.4GB IBM 'Death Star' was a big deal. And my 40 MB drive on the Commodore Amiga in the late 80's. wow have we come a long way with storage capacity. We can thank the pr0n industry for high speed internet, efficient video codecs and large hard drives.

Time warp:
I spent over $40k on computers hardware alone 1984-1997, my personal money. Original Mac128k Sept 1984, Hyperdrive FX20 20MB HD, ha paid $1k for 3MB static RAM for my MacPortable (4MB total), back when my DOS friends thought 640k was king. Yadda-yadda, yep helped fund the R&D cycle till I said "wake up and stop the insanity "

Chasing technology will always cost premium $.
Sorry soapbox rant, every time I think we've reached the asymptotic portion of the buy for increase performance point it seems to get stretched just a little more.

Now, 64TB NAS that's a honkin lot of storage! Then you need the triple redundant backup solution including off property backup, got the bandwidth for all that?


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post #9922 of 9925 Old Today, 08:14 AM
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Wow, this is hilarious. I really got Deja Vu's panties in a wad.

So, it is either the user, the equipment or both. By your logic, if most do not have this great depth perception, then why should they even bother with 3D? Why should the studios bother if there is only a small subset of the population that can really appreciate 3D? Also, if there is only a limited option of equipment which is further reduced by the set up, then again why bother?

I find it interesting that you say people crusade against 3D on the forum. I don't see a lot of people actively crusading against it. I think most people have tried it and don't really care for it. Because of this, they prefer to focus on the best 2D performance and hoping the manufacturers put most of their resources into developing 2D instead of 3D. Honestly, the only person I see crusading is Deja Vu who seems to put 3D into just about every post he makes.

As for the Craig's G90, I only mentioned it because he helped develop 3D on the Lumagen and I doubt there is any CRT doing 3D better. I wanted to make sure that I had complete list, as I don't believe I was biased going into 3D (as Deja Vu stated). The end result is I didn't just watch one clip or film on one type of display. I have seen most and still do not care for it. As my friend Steve Crabb has said "4k is more 3D than 3D", so bring on the good 4k.

Finally, I hope Hugo was better on BR than it was in the theater. I must have taken my glasses off four or five times during that movie. IIRC I watched a good portion of it without my glasses.
1) Please quote from any post I have ever submitted just where I said you (referred to you by name) were biased against 3D. And yes, I do believe that 3D is hampered by both the equipment most use to watch it on and to some extend individual differences in depth perception. You may have seen lots of different displays showing 3D but have you actually seen it displayed with a good DLP on something like a 2.8 gain HP screen? I can drive around a hilly and curvy test track in a Honda Civic and at the end wonder why everyone says it's an amazing experience. When I drive the same track in a Ferrari I understand the excitement.

As I have previously stated I own a Teranex 3D processor because I suspect you may be right about public acceptance of 3D in North America -- I'm hedging my bets -- also there's lots of 2D material that looks very good in 3D.

With respect to 3D and brightness I think the studios are now gamma correcting the 3D version of their films to open up shadow detail etc. to help ameliorate the loss of light in 3D.

2. Back to the LS10000 and its use of a laser light source. I believe Ron Jones has put it into proper perspective. Here's a quote from a post he made on the LS10000 thread:

"I'm not convinced that a 10,000 hour life in high mode is even the correct number. The LS10000 User's Manual says up to 13,000 hours in hight bright mode. The laser's life is expected to be extended by use of the dynamic dimming function that most owners will be using for improved on/off contrast and reduced black levels.I would expect a half brightness life of perhaps 15,000 to 20,000 hours when operated in high brightnesss mode with the dynamic dimming function in use."

I guess only time will tell; however, I excited by the present (albeit slow) transition to 4K and laser light sources.

3. Here are some 2D patterns with hidden 3D within to test your depth perception. After you open an attachment just move your head closer to your screen and defocus your eyes some and the 3D image should pop out. After awhile you will be able to see the 3D image form a normal sitting distance or even further back. Go to post 157 (the last post in the thread). Enjoy.

Should Studios Do 2D to 3D Conversions, Or Are On-Board 2D to 3D Converters Sufficient?

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post #9923 of 9925 Old Today, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
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I have 4K and have seen some top shelf content on it, I wouldn't agree the higher resolution in any way emulates a quality 3D presentation on a DLP projector. It's like comparing apples and oranges. The 4K is impressive in itself, but then so is a good 3D projector that has a bright presentation. completely different imo.

regarding the comments on the laser life, that doesn't really answer my question. I'll post this from the response on the Epson thread. I still want a scientific answer on the life expectancy of that laser module when used in high lamp.

my question still stands though, when do we reach 80/60/40 % of the original brightness. A lab tech who worked on this technology must know the answer. Some people are banking on the 1100 lumens for a large, low gain screen and some are planning to use it like a TV so it's not likely going to be used in a bat cave for those scenarios.

1100 lumens in high lamp, ~800 in mid, ~ 550 or so in low. The light source may not be easily 'renewable' after the 3 year warranty is over, I think for $8,000 it's an important question to ask for those looking to own it for the long term. As much as UHP lamps are a pain, I have a 7 year old Planar 8150 that looks brand new when I pop in a $100 OEM lamp.
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post #9924 of 9925 Old Today, 10:56 AM
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So this is what happens in this thread when projectors take a year off? Entertaining conversation!

I am a big 3d fan as you guys know, but 2 things put a bad taste in my mouth about 3d in general. The first is conservative barely there 3d which seems to be the case with most live action movies more times than not. If I am watching something in 3d, I want there to be no doubt it is 3d and if I am having to constantly lift up my glasses to see how much actual separation there is due to how unimpressed I am with the 3d in general, what's the point? There are a number of titles I prefer watching in 2d for this very reason.

The second issue which is related to my CIH setup is this trend to release the 2d version of a film in a constant scope ratio while the 3d disc gets the IMAX variable aspect release. CIH and variable aspect flat out don't work and ANY way you decide to view these discs there will be compromise. Selfishly, I really wish variable aspect would die a sloooow and painful death! Worse than that is something like Transf 4 which takes it to another level with SAR (schizophrenic aspect ratio) which cropped to a constant 2.35/40 ratio has MANY obvious non optimally cropped frames (heads getting chopped off, etc......) which would certainly not be an issue if the constant aspect scope transfer was offered as an option just like it is in 2d since it is optimally framed from one shot to the next. Obviously the CIH guys are in the extreme minority so getting a constant aspect option in these cases is a pipe dream most likely, but it sure would be nice since VA+CIH flat out does not work and there is always compromise no matter how you choose to present it.

Other than that, I love 3d in general and since moving to a single chip DLP/HP 2.8, I have no complaints with brightness, ghosting and flicker which are the 3 biggest technical issues with presenting 3d in my mind. I just would love to see live action titles get as aggressive with the general 3d effect as the better animated titles (and of course for VA and SAR to go away or offer up a constant aspect option for CIH users!).

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