Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 334 - AVS Forum
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post #9991 of 10018 Old 12-25-2014, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post
And why would you do that??
So I can take some measurements of my own and do a much longer comparison than what I got when I was at Mark's house. And possibly make a few more remarks about it that will inevitably piss you off.

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post #9992 of 10018 Old 12-25-2014, 04:10 PM - Thread Starter
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I thought Andreas just bought a jvc? Can't bust too many chops if one has a Sony 4k and a JVC
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post #9993 of 10018 Old 12-25-2014, 10:11 PM - Thread Starter
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The newer JVCs for sure. I just feel they offer the best all around performance at the moment. I recently had an RS45 here and I thought that in comparison to the X500's image somehow JVC has made some serious strides in overall PQ finesse. Sharpness, "clarity", motion, out of the box color, brightness, and native contrast really look better on the X500 over the RS45.
I recently spent some time comparing the 46/35 to several different 4910's (all were great samples). I'm not as big a fan of e-shift on the newer 2nd/3rd revision. after going back and forth, I ended up turning off the e-shift and going with ~30 on the darbee. With the e-shift off, both projector models looked very similar with a split source. JVC started a trend with decent out of the box color with the 46, something the previous 45/55 series needed help with. better OOTB color space and gamma settings is a good starting point before calibration.

do any of your iris tests trip up the JVC iris like the interrogation scene in Oblivion? it's funny watching the delay of the iris / DG trying to catch up during the transitions.
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post #9994 of 10018 Old 12-25-2014, 10:32 PM
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I've actually fallen into the habit of watching a lot of material with my JVC RS57's DI on the dreaded "auto 1" setting. This setting seemed to be universally dismissed especially by the reviewers, with Auto 2 being regarded as more accurate (where Auto 1 purportedly crushes shadow detail more). But when I want the richest sense of contrast, Auto 1 seems to do it, which I believe it's probably due to the more aggressive gamma manipulation. Not for all things, and not when I want the best shadow detail or the most film-like image, but for certain newer movies I find the Auto 1 setting adds a touch more wow factor.
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post #9995 of 10018 Old 12-25-2014, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I recently spent some time comparing the 46/35 to several different 4910's (all were great samples). I'm not as big a fan of e-shift on the newer 2nd/3rd revision. after going back and forth, I ended up turning off the e-shift and going with ~30 on the darbee. With the e-shift off, both projector models looked very similar with a split source. JVC started a trend with decent out of the box color with the 46, something the previous 45/55 series needed help with. better OOTB color space and gamma settings is a good starting point before calibration.

do any of your iris tests trip up the JVC iris like the interrogation scene in Oblivion? it's funny watching the delay of the iris / DG trying to catch up during the transitions.
I mentioned a clip to you in one of my previous posts. It's right at the beginning of Harry Potter 7 Part 1. There's a full fade to black after the Harry Potter logo and it instantly shows a close up image of Rufus Scrimgeour's face. There is a pretty long delay in the iris opening and dynamic gamma catching up on both the VW1100ES and X500. But it's near perfect on the PD8150. I use this clip a lot when testing out a DI. The iris mechanism is very light weight attached to a lightning fast actuator. The in-lens irises are too slow by comparison. I think it's a physical limitation of that type of iris. Though I may be wrong. Why program it that way if you know it's going to be a problem? Real content does have fade to black moments which come out quickly often. It seems like an oversight not to have something written for these instances like the PD8150 does.

I've been thinking about DI's a lot and I would LOVE if someone came out with a system that looked ahead like a full 5 or 6 seconds (which would cause an audio delay that could be compensated for) and made smart, accurate, and strikingly appropriate movements based on how the scenes changes or transitions. It seems like we have pumping issues because it doesn't look ahead far enough to anticipate when to move or how much to move. I know I'd be perfectly fine if my projector had a feature like this even it it forced a significant audio delay.

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post #9996 of 10018 Old 12-25-2014, 11:13 PM - Thread Starter
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I've actually fallen into the habit of watching a lot of material with my JVC RS57's DI on the dreaded "auto 1" setting. This setting seemed to be universally dismissed especially by the reviewers, with Auto 2 being regarded as more accurate (where Auto 1 purportedly crushes shadow detail more). But when I want the richest sense of contrast, Auto 1 seems to do it, which I believe it's probably due to the more aggressive gamma manipulation. Not for all things, and not when I want the best shadow detail or the most film-like image, but for certain newer movies I find the Auto 1 setting adds a touch more wow factor.
I'll have to go back and take a look. There were only a few scenes I was checking it with where I thought the DG looked a little too aggressive.

I'm still content with running manual -8 to -11 on the HP screen. I think the brightness + large surface area of the HP makes me sensitive to brightness shifts. Once I darkened the room, i'm paying more attention to iris activity on the various projectors. Overall though I think JVC did a great job for round 1.

on that topic, you guys are lucky you get to skip a whole year without thinking of upgrades. I do think something good is brewing for fall 2015.

here is a cool video from when I had the RS57 here, watch it getting a work out trying to keep up with DJ Tiesto's crazy lighting display.

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post #9997 of 10018 Old Yesterday, 12:32 AM - Thread Starter
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seegs, art likes your new toy.

Just watch this Sony. That’s all you need to do, to want one. I’ve come up with a mathematical formula to describe the overall Picture: Gorgeous + Stunning = Awesome! OK, I’m getting silly, but then, this Sony is giving me the best picture I’ve seen yet, having reviewed 150+ home theater projectors in the last 8 years

Translation: I’m going to hate giving this projector back to Sony.
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post #9998 of 10018 Old Yesterday, 01:01 AM
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And what's your opinion?

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post #9999 of 10018 Old Yesterday, 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I'll have to go back and take a look. There were only a few scenes I was checking it with where I thought the DG looked a little too aggressive.

I'm still content with running manual -8 to -11 on the HP screen. I think the brightness + large surface area of the HP makes me sensitive to brightness shifts. Once I darkened the room, i'm paying more attention to iris activity on the various projectors. Overall though I think JVC did a great job for round 1.

on that topic, you guys are lucky you get to skip a whole year without thinking of upgrades. I do think something good is brewing for fall 2015.
I'd like to see them add another DI mode that's just a bit less aggressive or change up the DI device so it can move just a tad faster in conjunction with dynamic gamma. Though I suspect if we're to see DG in-picture less it would have to be tied together with a less aggressive DI mode. The DI does multiply native contrast over 10 times. Let's bring it down to around 7 or 8 and see what happens.

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post #10000 of 10018 Old Yesterday, 01:05 AM
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post #10001 of 10018 Old Yesterday, 02:23 AM
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So I can take some measurements of my own and do a much longer comparison than what I got when I was at Mark's house. And possibly make a few more remarks about it that will inevitably piss you off.
You can not piss me off anymore. I now own both a VW1100 and a JVC X500 and I enjoy both and see they both have their strenghts and weaknesses as I have always said. The JVC has actually improved with the latest batch and latest firmware and I can now say I love my JVC and I love my Sony. And I can´t wait until JVC comes out with a 4K laser machine in the future, I will buy it for sure if I can afford it.

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seegs, art likes your new toy.

Just watch this Sony. That’s all you need to do, to want one. I’ve come up with a mathematical formula to describe the overall Picture: Gorgeous + Stunning = Awesome! OK, I’m getting silly, but then, this Sony is giving me the best picture I’ve seen yet, having reviewed 150+ home theater projectors in the last 8 years

Translation: I’m going to hate giving this projector back to Sony.
Okay, now the seller is trying to force me into paying him cash or with a money order. That isn't happening on a purchase this large. I told him I can either pay him with my discover card or through PayPal if I cover the fees. Something seems fishy and if he won't accept either than I might not be getting a 1000ES after all.

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post #10003 of 10018 Old Yesterday, 10:43 AM
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Okay, now the seller is trying to force me into paying him cash or with a money order. That isn't happening on a purchase this large. I told him I can either pay him with my discover card or through PayPal if I cover the fees. Something seems fishy and if he won't accept either than I might not be getting a 1000ES after all.
If it doesn't happen another one will come along. Seems like you are in a good location for good used projectors.

Portland Craigslist has a "demo" Sony 1000 at $12,500 with 400 hours and a spare lamp. Doesn't seem like a bargain...

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post #10004 of 10018 Old Yesterday, 11:35 AM
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Okay, now the seller is trying to force me into paying him cash or with a money order. That isn't happening on a purchase this large. I told him I can either pay him with my discover card or through PayPal if I cover the fees. Something seems fishy and if he won't accept either than I might not be getting a 1000ES after all.


Unless you have a CCW and a large caliber handgun, I wouldn't meet a stranger with that kind of cash.


Maybe we will get more B stock units in the near future - you never know !!

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Unless you have a CCW and a large caliber handgun, I wouldn't meet a stranger with that kind of cash.
I probably would if they would meet at my bank where I would withdraw the cash and we did the whole deal under the cameras.

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I probably would if they would meet at my bank where I would withdraw the cash and we did the whole deal under the cameras.

--Darin
I'm sure the bank will just love you un-boxing a VW1000 on the managers desk, and counting out $ 14,000.00. Lets make it in $ 20.00's !


A credit card transaction at least has a chance to trace back to the seller in the event the thing is stolen.

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He hasn't responded back yet to my request to keep it through PayPal or a credit card, so I think I'm SOL.

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post #10008 of 10018 Old Yesterday, 05:37 PM
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Today while at Best Buy viewing the LG OLED display, it reminded me that I think I've been spoiled both by seeing too many 4K flat panels, and especially in owning an E-shift JVC projector.

The boxing day sale and the incredible color and contrast on the OLED almost had my credit card itching in my pocket. But, as has happened each time I'm in front of that display, I can't help that I naturally want to move forward to a more immersive position than just "average TV-seating distance" at which point the 1080p resolution pixel structure of these displays becomes just too apparent to me. It's like taking a step backwards and I think it would just nag at me too much. It's especially apparent after standing in front of the 4K flat panels in the same store. But mostly I'm so used to a pure pixel-grid-free, smooth image from my projector that it feels like for me there's no going back to 1080p. For any display I'd want for critical viewing, especially projection, it's now 4K or bust.

I'd be surprised if people who own a 4K projector or JVC wouldn't have similar feelings.
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post #10009 of 10018 Old Yesterday, 08:39 PM - Thread Starter
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i thought the same thing about the 80" Sharp's we have at work. The pixel grid is too easy to see at this size. At least the projectors converge the RGB image to a single pixel space. The comparatively 'chunky' layout of the LCD pixels would have me wanting 4K too in these sets.

i'd be pretty happy with an 80" OLED 4K set for TV and some general movie watching. It would still look small though compared to the 142" mini-imax screen.

80 inch 16x9 display vs 142 inch 16x9 display (www.displaywars.com)

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post #10010 of 10018 Old Today, 03:48 AM
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i thought the same thing about the 80" Sharp's we have at work.
I saw some of last year's 80" Sharps at a local appliance store (Conn's - what a name huh), they were terrible looking. I don't know if it was the way their setup or they were just that bad, looked like 200:1 contrast ratio.


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Yeah, it's funny walking into Magnolia seeing 80"-90" Sharp LEDs that used to look so huge now look so small and unimpressive. (I'm at a 9 foot wide scope screen...I use zoom method for CIH so it's like watching those movies at 124"). Not to mention that haven't got anywhere near the contrast of my RS4810 nor the natural looking image. Watching scope movies without horizontal black bars is very nice too.
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post #10012 of 10018 Old Today, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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10,000 POSTS IN THIS THREAD!!!!!!!!


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Congrats Zombie!
How did I miss this.. wow thanks! I'm going to ask a mod to change the title to take off the dates so the thread continues to be grand central station for any projector related discussions (2D and 3D) and for comparing any models (old and new).
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seegs, art likes your new toy.

Just watch this Sony. That’s all you need to do, to want one. I’ve come up with a mathematical formula to describe the overall Picture: Gorgeous + Stunning = Awesome! OK, I’m getting silly, but then, this Sony is giving me the best picture I’ve seen yet, having reviewed 150+ home theater projectors in the last 8 years

Translation: I’m going to hate giving this projector back to Sony.



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And what's your opinion?

seriously, did you read his review? he seems to be jumping out of his skin over the VW1100. Best image out of 150 HT projectors in 8 years? it will be interesting to see how the LS10000 vs. VW1100 compares. They have to brightness match as best as possible. Low lamp on the 1100 should be pretty close to the max output of the Epson.

Based on the Cine4home contrast #'s, the low APL scenes should favor the Epson. with the relatively low ANSI posted, the 1100 should look better in the mixed scenes.

I feel bad I haven't spent more time with the VW1100, one of the issues of having 1/2 dozen projectors here. Lately I have been mainly using it for some 4K gaming and also checking out 4K footage from the GoPro.
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post #10014 of 10018 Old Today, 10:41 AM
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Today while at Best Buy viewing the LG OLED display, it reminded me that I think I've been spoiled both by seeing too many 4K flat panels, and especially in owning an E-shift JVC projector.

The boxing day sale and the incredible color and contrast on the OLED almost had my credit card itching in my pocket. But, as has happened each time I'm in front of that display, I can't help that I naturally want to move forward to a more immersive position than just "average TV-seating distance" at which point the 1080p resolution pixel structure of these displays becomes just too apparent to me. It's like taking a step backwards and I think it would just nag at me too much. It's especially apparent after standing in front of the 4K flat panels in the same store. But mostly I'm so used to a pure pixel-grid-free, smooth image from my projector that it feels like for me there's no going back to 1080p. For any display I'd want for critical viewing, especially projection, it's now 4K or bust.

I'd be surprised if people who own a 4K projector or JVC wouldn't have similar feelings.



Yes-I had the same "temporary" feeling when I saw a 1080p OLED at my local PC World.


I own a 1000es(not upgraded to1100 yet).
The contrast of the OLEDs are incredible-but you always have to be weary of demo material on shop floors(A budding flower or a static cityscape sped up).


How an OLED reacts to older and proper material(e.f 35mm/70mm sourced flicks) is another matter altogether.

Went back home and fired up the 1000es and(bat cave but on smallish screen-77inches width 2:40)---sorry no contest----the projector wins hands down---more immersive and more detail by virtue of the larger size alone.


Also the 1000/1100 on AutoIris on full can offer great contrast(not quite as good as a JVC or obviously an OLED for that matter) but still bloody impressive!--that allied to the increased detail courtesy(relative to any other display type out there) of the 4K upscaling and it is a home run.


Just watched Alien(a film with plenty of intra-scene contrast) last night and it was like heaven baby!

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post #10015 of 10018 Old Today, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Alien is one of my all-time favorite movies, the BD transfer looks much better IMO than they were able to handle with 'Aliens'. My understanding with Aliens is that they were using a specific batch of Kodak film that was not favored at the time and didn't last long after this movie was made.

let's see what happens with Prometheus 2.. shocked they decided to proceed with this film, it better be about 1000 times better than the first. The spoof on youtube 'How Prometheus should have ended' was dead on... just drop the ship onto LV-426 which would have explained the beginning of Alien. At least it would have been some salvation for this movie.

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i thought the same thing about the 80" Sharp's we have at work. The pixel grid is too easy to see at this size. At least the projectors converge the RGB image to a single pixel space. The comparatively 'chunky' layout of the LCD pixels would have me wanting 4K too in these sets.

i'd be pretty happy with an 80" OLED 4K set for TV and some general movie watching. It would still look small though compared to the 142" mini-imax screen.

80 inch 16x9 display vs 142 inch 16x9 display (www.displaywars.com)

Looks like scope to me?

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Alien is one of my all-time favorite movies, the BD transfer looks much better IMO than they were able to handle with 'Aliens'. My understanding with Aliens is that they were using a specific batch of Kodak film that was not favored at the time and didn't last long after this movie was made.

let's see what happens with Prometheus 2.. shocked they decided to proceed with this film, it better be about 1000 times better than the first. The spoof on youtube 'How Prometheus should have ended' was dead on... just drop the ship onto LV-426 which would have explained the beginning of Alien. At least it would have been some salvation for this movie.

There are few images more enjoyable than a good quality space shot. Desolate blacks of space coupled with the piercing constrast of stars and then a sharp, detailed space ship coming into view. Prometheus and Avatar are a couple of my newer favs, in addition to the older Alien.

I am looking forward to what new eye candy Prometheus 2 can come up, and hopefully there is a movie to match...

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This would have been the 80" 16:9 vs a 142" scope screen. The site allows various settings for 16:9, scope, etc.

http://displaywars.com/80-inch-16x9-vs-142-inch-235x1




I watch a lot of 16:9 content so I went with a screen as tall as my room would allow. I call it the 'mini-imax'.. I have a set of masks I started building, just need to finish them soon.



I watched The Interview last night. The production quality was higher than I was expecting, but they needed a better supporting cast like in 'This is the End'.
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Ha, lol. Just realized my daughter had changed the resolution on my 24" Asus. Back to 1920x1080 and things don't look so wide anymore...

Location: Beaverton, Oregon
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