Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 70 - AVS Forum
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post #2071 of 8917 Old 12-19-2012, 11:02 AM
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I've upgraded my budget to 2500€, in that price range come in touch 2 PJ I would like, either it's epson 5020/TW8100 or JVC X30 (I dunno RS?). From what I know both of them are great for 2D image. I use my home cinema room 90% of time for 2D movies mainly. Till now I have had no interest in 3d movies, yesterday I saw a great dlp projector (it was a sim2 nero) and the 3d performance impress me a lot. Even so I love 2D performance and 2D movies. So the question is which one to pick?
120" custom made 1.2 gain matt white screen, trow distance (ceiling 16-17'), light controlled room and black colored ceiling.
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post #2072 of 8917 Old 12-19-2012, 11:15 AM
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Thanks for the answer zombie, it has clarified me a lot.
I will buying the tw8100(5020). I am wayting for one that has good convergence, already try two on my local store but both of them has bad convergence, now wayting for a third! When i do i have to buy the glasses also because in Europe the tw8100 dont have glasses included, i was thinking buy the universal samsung 4100 3d glasses, what do you guys think of that, do you think i will loose picture quality in 3d in comparation to the epson ones, or is about the same?
Thanks
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post #2073 of 8917 Old 12-19-2012, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lgreis View Post

In projectorreviews, art equalls the performance between the sony hw50 and the epson 5020 in 2d. Maybe zombies10 5020 has bad pannel convergence that reduces the picture quality?
Zombie10 hows the panel convergence of your 5020?

Most of us just prefer LCOS or even DLP over LCD, but I am even ever so slightly considering the Epson just for 3D if the Mits doesn't pan out, but I'd rather have a ZERO crosstalk DLP even though the Epson is fairly clean at most 3D. The problem with Epson is pixel fill and convergence russian roulette, it's still very visible to me, but in some cases it does POP more if you like that sort of thing. Oh yah and I absolutely dislike the russian roulette game of convergence, and it is very much still a game with the Epson and less so with the Sony or JVC and of course a ZERO game with a DLP for convergence. I'd rather play a real game of russian roulette (with rubber bullets of course, who's in?), then to try to go through convergence luck with another projector.

I'm still game to go with the Mits hc8000 if it checks out in 2D. The Epson is great at 2d in dark scenes because I can't see the pixel fill in this case, but in bright scenes I still see it and it looks too digital to me (it's not horrible by any means, but I like the film-like quality of the JVC better). I am bored with the JVC image and want to watch something different even for 2D, that's why I'm hoping the Mits IRIS isn't gimp'd like it was on the hc7800. Even if the Mits IRIS is gimp'd, I might still buy it (don't know).


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post #2074 of 8917 Old 12-19-2012, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

What a cop out. smile.gif Consumer reports has no problem assigning a numerical rating value from 0 to 100 considering all elements they consider and then us dumb consumers can purely pick the one with the highest number to cost ratio. Let me hear it? LEGENDARY! You could become all time :LEGENDARY to the masses by coming up with a pure score rating, or say two, one for 2D and one for 3D. Then those would can not unde stand the fine points, smixel spacing yada yada, could just go off and be happy. smile.gif

Ahhhh.... Consumer Reports. I hated people carrying those in with them when I used to sell TVs and speakers. Mainly for two reasons.

1. They are CLEARLY paid off. You can't tell me that Sony model X is #1 and Panasonic Model Y is #10 in November's issue, which is riddled with ads for Sony. Then come out in December's issue, now riddled with Panasonic ads and say that Panasonic Model Y is #1 and Sony mode X is #9.

2. The ever so awesome drop test. Heres an idea... dont drop your electronics rather than picking one that bounces better. biggrin.gif

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post #2075 of 8917 Old 12-19-2012, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

2D -> 3D always disappoints me since there are real 3D BD's that can't see to get it right, so i'm a little picky here with converters.

Considering that even 2D-3D conversions made by best hollywood studios for millons of $$$ is totally worthless to watch (especially when compared to real 3D shot with 2 cameras), I can't understand how on earth anyone can pay any attention to an automatic 2D-3D conversion in cheap PJs/TVs. It's 100% totally useless feature, pure marketing.
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post #2076 of 8917 Old 12-19-2012, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deffusse View Post

I've upgraded my budget to 2500€, in that price range come in touch 2 PJ I would like, either it's epson 5020/TW8100 or JVC X30 (I dunno RS?). From what I know both of them are great for 2D image. I use my home cinema room 90% of time for 2D movies mainly. Till now I have had no interest in 3d movies, yesterday I saw a great dlp projector (it was a sim2 nero) and the 3d performance impress me a lot. Even so I love 2D performance and 2D movies. So the question is which one to pick?
120" custom made 1.2 gain matt white screen, trow distance (ceiling 16-17'), light controlled room and black colored ceiling.

Any reason you wouldn't just go for the X-35 (RS46)? It should retail for the same as the X-30 (RS45) did unless you're getting some great blowout pricing.

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post #2077 of 8917 Old 12-19-2012, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilya Volk View Post

Considering that even 2D-3D conversions made by best hollywood studios for millons of $$$ is totally worthless to watch (especially when compared to real 3D shot with 2 cameras), I can't understand how on earth anyone can pay any attention to an automatic 2D-3D conversion in cheap PJs/TVs. It's 100% totally useless feature, pure marketing.
It usually takes me more words to explane this, well said.
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post #2078 of 8917 Old 12-19-2012, 12:34 PM
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havok2022 >> x35 it's too pricey now, maybe I can wait for better price which may settle a bit. (about 3200€ now in my country). That is it why
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post #2079 of 8917 Old 12-19-2012, 12:36 PM
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Makes sense. Just know about the ghosting issues on the X-30. Depends on content or sensitivity. Otherwise for 2D I think its a far better choice imo. But I love black levels.

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post #2080 of 8917 Old 12-19-2012, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by havok2022 View Post

Ahhhh.... Consumer Reports. I hated people carrying those in with them when I used to sell TVs and speakers. Mainly for two reasons.
1. They are CLEARLY paid off. You can't tell me that Sony model X is #1 and Panasonic Model Y is #10 in November's issue, which is riddled with ads for Sony. Then come out in December's issue, now riddled with Panasonic ads and say that Panasonic Model Y is #1 and Sony mode X is #9.
2. The ever so awesome drop test. Heres an idea... dont drop your electronics rather than picking one that bounces better. biggrin.gif[/quote

Remember the ad with the salesman dropping a piece of a customer's Naim electronics and saying "Excuse me, I dropped you Naim"?

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post #2081 of 8917 Old 12-19-2012, 12:54 PM
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5020 is 9100 in Europe not 8100! Be careful!!! The cheapest country to buy it from is Greece, where it costs only 2100 euros with 2 pair of glases included.

http://www.skroutz.gr/s/2566616/Epson-EH-TW9100.html
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post #2082 of 8917 Old 12-19-2012, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Most of us just prefer LCOS or even DLP over LCD, but I am even ever so slightly considering the Epson just for 3D if the Mits doesn't pan out, but I'd rather have a ZERO crosstalk DLP even though the Epson is fairly clean at most 3D. The problem with Epson is pixel fill and convergence russian roulette, it's still very visible to me, but in some cases it does POP more if you like that sort of thing. Oh yah and I absolutely dislike the russian roulette game of convergence, and it is very much still a game with the Epson and less so with the Sony or JVC and of course a ZERO game with a DLP for convergence. I'd rather play a real game of russian roulette (with rubber bullets of course, who's in?), then to try to go through convergence luck with another projector.
I'm still game to go with the Mits hc8000 if it checks out in 2D. The Epson is great at 2d in dark scenes because I can't see the pixel fill in this case, but in bright scenes I still see it and it looks too digital to me (it's not horrible by any means, but I like the film-like quality of the JVC better). I am bored with the JVC image and want to watch something different even for 2D, that's why I'm hoping the Mits IRIS isn't gimp'd like it was on the hc7800. Even if the Mits IRIS is gimp'd, I might still buy it (don't know).

Hello Coderguy,

May I ask some questions please? Firstly sorry for my english. This will be my first projector.

1- Why most of people prefer lcos over Lcd? (I am between sony hw50es and epson 6020)
2-I have used Samsung lcd and led tvs since 2010. I like samsungs image quality. The colours are dynamic and rich. Does POP mean that? so epson will be a more better choice for me?

3-What do you mean with digital look and film-like? Epson looks digital at movies mean soap opera effect or an another thing?

Thank you and Kind Regards

Cem
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post #2083 of 8917 Old 12-19-2012, 01:05 PM
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Maybe my post was not as clear.
The Air intake and exhaust of the Sony HW50 and JVC RS46 machines, are both on the front?
Can I place both machines in a cabinet with only an open front?
I also see airvents on the back of both machines, but they might be used for electric cooling and not for the lamp..
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post #2084 of 8917 Old 12-19-2012, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by havok2022 View Post

Ahhhh.... Consumer Reports. I hated people carrying those in with them when I used to sell TVs and speakers. Mainly for two reasons.
1. They are CLEARLY paid off. You can't tell me that Sony model X is #1 and Panasonic Model Y is #10 in November's issue, which is riddled with ads for Sony. Then come out in December's issue, now riddled with Panasonic ads and say that Panasonic Model Y is #1 and Sony mode X is #9.
2. The ever so awesome drop test. Heres an idea... dont drop your electronics rather than picking one that bounces better. biggrin.gif[/quote
Remember the ad with the salesman dropping a pice of a customers Naim electronics and saying "Excuse me, I dropped you Naim"?

I haven't seen that one, but I'll see if I can find it. biggrin.gif

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post #2085 of 8917 Old 12-19-2012, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthieu View Post

Maybe my post was not as clear.
The Air intake and exhaust of the Sony HW50 and JVC RS46 machines, are both on the front?
Can I place both machines in a cabinet with only an open front?
I also see airvents on the back of both machines, but they might be used for electric cooling and not for the lamp..

If I remember correctly, I felt hot air exiting the front of the case on the JVC. Didn't check the back vents.
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post #2086 of 8917 Old 12-19-2012, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by cl7gr View Post

5020 is 9100 in Europe not 8100! Be careful!!! The cheapest country to buy it from is Greece, where it costs only 2100 euros with 2 pair of glases included.
http://www.skroutz.gr/s/2566616/Epson-EH-TW9100.html
thank you for advice , I though tw9100 is 6020 or the later pro model which comes in black color. The price from greece is great, I'll look for it.
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post #2087 of 8917 Old 12-19-2012, 01:28 PM
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Back vents are air intake I believe
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post #2088 of 8917 Old 12-19-2012, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by cl7gr View Post

5020 is 9100 in Europe not 8100! Be careful!!! The cheapest country to buy it from is Greece, where it costs only 2100 euros with 2 pair of glases included.
http://www.skroutz.gr/s/2566616/Epson-EH-TW9100.html
No it is not! 5020 is the 8100 (the white) and 6020 is the 9100( the black), but inside they are the same machine. The diference between them are the color, the glasses and anaformic lenses
http://www.epson.gr/gr/el/viewcon/corporatesite/cms/index/1012
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post #2089 of 8917 Old 12-19-2012, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

Just measured lumens on my RS48 at 10hrs. Closed iris on low was 285 and high was 415. Iris open on low was 565 and high was 860. I'm using a 120in HP 2.4 screen. I'm getting close to 2.2 gain with my setup, so with the iris closed I'm at 15ftL on low lamp.

Hey blee, just curious what your throw distance is? Sounds like our setups are similar when I am zoomed out for my 2.35 image on my HP screen. Thx.

JVC 3D: Been there, done that, bought a DLP
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post #2090 of 8917 Old 12-19-2012, 02:43 PM
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My throw is 12'3" on a 105in wide screen. Projector is mounted at 50in and the middle of my HP screen is 48in. My eye level is around 44in. I'm 10ft from the screen, I'm usually 12ft but moved my seating closer. I went back to 1.8SW and changed some of the 4k profiles and I could see the change happening. Wasn't as strong but it was there.
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post #2091 of 8917 Old 12-19-2012, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lgreis View Post

No it is not! 5020 is the 8100 (the white) and 6020 is the 9100( the black), but inside they are the same machine. The diference between them are the color, the glasses and anaformic lenses
http://www.epson.gr/gr/el/viewcon/corporatesite/cms/index/1012

http://www.skroutz.gr/s/2566510/Epson-EH-TW8100.html?keyphrase=epson+8100

Even Better!!! biggrin.gif
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post #2092 of 8917 Old 12-19-2012, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cemo62 View Post

Hello Coderguy,
May I ask some questions please? Firstly sorry for my english. This will be my first projector.
1- Why most of people prefer lcos over Lcd? (I am between sony hw50es and epson 6020)
2-I have used Samsung lcd and led tvs since 2010. I like samsungs image quality. The colours are dynamic and rich. Does POP mean that? so epson will be a more better choice for me?
3-What do you mean with digital look and film-like? Epson looks digital at movies mean soap opera effect or an another thing?
Thank you and Kind Regards
Cem

Digital look just means a bit edgier, it's pretty slight these days so for a first projector you will be fine for either choice. I think the Sony is better at 2d because of the higher pixel fill, this just means if you sit VERY close to the screen you get a smoother less pixelated looking image. Let me emphasize that either projector will be great as a first projector. Zombie appears to favor the Epson for 3D and the Sony for 2D, and I'd agree although I have no experience with that particular Sony.

Colors look fairly similar between most projectors after calibrating, but the main thing is just that the Epson looks a bit more dimensional in certain shots at times, while at other times even looking flatter than LCOS or maybe edgier (that is what I mean by LCD is less consistent). So the LCOS produces a more consistent image in my opinion. Film-like look pretty much means looks more like 35mm film without seeing any type of hint of any digital representation, of course we say film-like we don't mean with the old grain and static that old 35mm film has.

Good luck, either projector will do fine.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
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post #2093 of 8917 Old 12-19-2012, 03:58 PM
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If Jvc r46 has fix the 3d issue form previous models, there is no other projector at this price range for movies to look at.
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post #2094 of 8917 Old 12-19-2012, 03:59 PM
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I haven't read the whole thread (been busy), what did Zombie conclude about the new JVC 3D vs. the old?


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
**Current Projector Calculator** -- http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com

Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

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post #2095 of 8917 Old 12-19-2012, 04:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I haven't read the whole thread (been busy), what did Zombie conclude about the new JVC 3D vs. the old?

don't be lazy, i posted a ton a great info a few pages ago. smile.gif
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post #2096 of 8917 Old 12-19-2012, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

don't be lazy, i posted a ton a great info a few pages ago. smile.gif

Yes, but i am waiting to test 46 against sony with the jvc glasses and the new firmware. smile.gif
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post #2097 of 8917 Old 12-19-2012, 04:13 PM
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Is the 6020 better in convergence issue (less risky) than the cheaper 5020
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post #2098 of 8917 Old 12-19-2012, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

don't be lazy, i posted a ton a great info a few pages ago. smile.gif

Found it:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1434826/sony-hw50-benq-w7000-epson-5020-jvc-rs55-jvc-rs-46-jvc-rs4810-jvc-rs56-mini-shootout-2012-2013/1920#post_22712498
--Had to travel back in time to 1939, err post #1939.

I'm guessing the JVC's will still be super bad at ghosting once the lamp ages (until someone hits 400+ hours, it will be a while before we know), but of course no-one can say for sure just yet. On the older RS-45 I have, as the lamp has aged the ghosts became less ethereal and more solid. Rather than ghosting it eventually gets to the point where you are seeing double and you feel cross-eyed. Love my cross-eyed 3D image.


Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks

Web Calculator v023 & v025
- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
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post #2099 of 8917 Old 12-19-2012, 04:26 PM - Thread Starter
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it's hard to say what will happen over time. I think the main thing is the lumen output. ~550 with the CT @ 0 is much dimmer than I am used to even on the HP. The 5020 @ 1400 keeps calling my name. I love bright 3D.. cool.gif
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post #2100 of 8917 Old 12-19-2012, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Found it:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1434826/sony-hw50-benq-w7000-epson-5020-jvc-rs55-jvc-rs-46-jvc-rs4810-jvc-rs56-mini-shootout-2012-2013/1920#post_22712498
--Had to travel back in time to 1939, err post #1939.
I'm guessing the JVC's will still be super bad at ghosting once the lamp ages (until someone hits 400+ hours, it will be a while before we know), but of course no-one can say for sure just yet. On the older RS-45 I have, as the lamp has aged the ghosts became less ethereal and more solid. Rather than ghosting it eventually gets to the point where you are seeing double and you feel cross-eyed. Love my cross-eyed 3D image.

I just sold my rs45 and i am between rs46 and sony 50. Jvc claims that with their own glasses there is almost no ghosting and that they change the optics and their old 220w lamp with a new 230w which last 3000 hours in high and 4000 hours in low mode. I also want to know which of the two(jvc or sony) performs better on 2d. Zombie made a beautiful comparison between 50 and 4810 but 50 is at the same price level with rs46. So that's what i am waiting for cool.gif
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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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