Projector Mini-Shootout Thread 2013-2014 - Page 79 - AVS Forum
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post #2341 of 9087 Old 12-23-2012, 07:38 PM
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Maybe, depending on your overall preferences, screen size, how much you prefer 3D, etc...
Honestly, 3D is great but most of us can still only watch it so much due to the amount of content available (unless you are big 3D gamer or something).
Some are more creative than others (and willing to spend more) to have every single 3D bluray out there practically, but I am not one of those (at least not at the moment).

So I would say for smaller screens the hc8000 if it fits in your room might be good based on Z's assessments (never seen it of course), but if I were you I wouldn't rule out the Sony hw50 or the Epson 5020 either, since I think it still rules the world for best overall 2D/3D combo.

Epson 5020 vs. Sony hw50 vs. Mits hc8000 would be a tough choice, try to eliminate firstly by your budget concerns and feature requirements, then lastly by picture quality and 3D (well that is what I'd do). Consider the Mits hc8000 does not have the lens shift flexibility of the hw50 or the 5020, but neither the 5020 nor the Sony hw50 support viewing 16:9 content on a 2.35 screen without external equipment for the 16:9 resize.

So my advice, look at all factors that can easily eliminate one PJ first, then decide on PQ last. If you try to base it only on PQ, it's tough without seeing them, but just go by Z's assessments and try to weigh how much you watch 3D vs. 2D, since it appears there still isn't a projector best at both (but Sony hw50 and Epson 5020 are nice for both 2d/3d combo, and perhaps the hc8000 as well).



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post #2342 of 9087 Old 12-23-2012, 07:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Having never seen the w7000 in 3D but having seen the 5010, I am interested after your A/B in if you had to pick a single PJ just for 3D would you stick with DLP (my guess is yes, but let us know). I know in the past you've said you can't beat the reference level cleanness of a DLP for 3D, so I'm going to be buying the Benq unless I change my mind (the Sharp is a bit too pricey for me still for a third projector for now). Sharp is interesting though, if only you could get your hands on one.

I think the hc8000 is good, but after looking at the total price package, it's too much for me to get it just for 3D usage I think. If I didn't own a JVC already for 2D, the Mits might be my choice.

This has been my 2D / 3D tag-team for a while. I have to take a closer look at the 5020 / W7000 soon for 3D only.

JVC-BQ.jpg


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post #2343 of 9087 Old 12-23-2012, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avsforumsdsd View Post

I'm having a hard time grasping different color levels rising linearly from black to white at least from the perspective of what our eyes see rather than a light meter measurement and/or a mathematical calculation.
Maybe my thinking is off here but if a projector like the JVC which has the lower black floor (meaning less light on the screen) the black level isn't going to rise at much at it's best point as a projector with a higher black floor? When I put up a full black screen on my RS2 with the Dalite 2.8 HP screen the black levels only slightly rose. However, when I did the same experiment on an HW30 in BB Magnolia last year the difference between the black levels on the HP 2.8 gain screen was obvious. If black levels rise linearly then why did I see such a difference on the HW30 comparison between the 1.1 gain screen and the HP 2.8 gain screen when I did the same comparison on the RS2 and only a slight difference was seen?

I saw the same when I tested last year. From all I gathered the black levles rise linearly on both projectors, however to the eye the projector with the black blacks (RS2) will not appear to rise as drastically.

If you are considering an upgrade the HW50 may be a better choice to stay on par with the black levels of your RS2. I had an RS2 clone (Pioneer FPJ1) and have an RS45 presently. The black levels on the two are equal with the exception being that my RS45 has bright corners where as the RS2 did not. The RS45 was a very nice upgrade over the RS2 IMO.I have an HW50 that I should have by the end of the week and I'll post my thoughts. I don't have the HP 2.8 screen now as I sold the 106" screen last year to get a larger 119" screen which I had to get a 2.4 gain screen instead which was disappointing at first but it's now my preference since it had noticeable better viewing angles and the black levels don't seem to rise quite as much as they do on the 2.8 screen from my observations (and now memory).
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post #2344 of 9087 Old 12-23-2012, 10:48 PM
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Do you plan on doing a drop ceiling with your black panels?
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post #2345 of 9087 Old 12-24-2012, 05:30 AM
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Back at my old house I had a drop ceiling in my basement and they were white. When I decided to build a HT I took the white ceiling tile and covered it with a black sheet. What I did was buy a few cheap black sheets and cut out a square that was a bit bigger then the tile. I wrapped it around the tile and stapled it to the back of the tile. When I dropped the tile in it pulled the sheet nice and tight with no creases. It looked great and help with the sound. People thought the were these expensive acoustic tiles. When we were selling the house I just took the sheets off and it was back to normal.
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post #2346 of 9087 Old 12-24-2012, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

negative, just the auto-iris 1. Is auto-iris 2 and 3 more aggressive?

Hmm, you asking me? Well supposedly higher modes should result in more aggresive iris working and deeper blacks, but I was hoping to get the answers to such questions from you!

I'm sorry, but how can one judge blacks produced by projector's auto-iris, without trying all its capabilities?
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post #2347 of 9087 Old 12-24-2012, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilya Volk View Post

Hmm, you asking me? Well supposedly higher modes should result in more aggresive iris working and deeper blacks, but I was hoping to get the answers to such questions from you!

I'm sorry, but how can one judge blacks produced by projector's auto-iris, without trying all its capabilities?

Hi, I think it would be best if you just get the HC8000 and let us know your thoughts on it so we have more opinions. There are a number of reviews out there already for the HC8000 so they should help with the purchasing decision.

I went back and looked at the other other iris modes, I don't see anything of significance with these settings in regard to increase black levels. As I stated before, it's very good for a DLP, but not quite the same as the 5020 or the HW50 and certainly not the JVC.

The strengths are excellent 3D with no crosstalk or flicker, very good contrast in 2D and 3D. The high speed glasses are light and comfortable as well.


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post #2348 of 9087 Old 12-24-2012, 09:33 AM
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post #2349 of 9087 Old 12-24-2012, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

There are a number of reviews out there already for the HC8000 so they should help with the purchasing decision.

Can you point to them? I've seen only one reivew so far, on ProjectorCentral, and it was 90% useless, thats why I was waiting for your impressions.
Many thanks anyway, by the way.

Well, from all we know it looks like HC8000D currently has no alternatives (under $10k) for anyone who wants decent 2D and perfect 3D in one PJ.

What do you think, if Eco mode is too dark on for 140" screen, maybe it would work on ~100" with very high gain?
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post #2350 of 9087 Old 12-24-2012, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilya Volk View Post

Can you point to them? I've seen only one reivew so far, on ProjectorCentral, and it was 90% useless, thats why I was waiting for your impressions.
Many thanks anyway, by the way.
Well, from all we know it looks like HC8000D currently has no alternatives (under $10k) for anyone who wants decent 2D and perfect 3D in one PJ.
What do you think, if Eco mode is too dark on for 140" screen, maybe it would work on ~100" with very high gain?
same goes for me. Now that I know that the iris works ok and the audible noise is ok too I m only concerned about the black floor level of the HC8000DBL
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post #2351 of 9087 Old 12-24-2012, 10:56 AM
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Art of Flight being converted to 3d...................

http://www.redbull.com/cs/Satellite/en_INT/Article/The-Art-of-FLIGHT-3D-Todd-Cogan-from-Venture-3D-Interview-021243258148913

Maybe this has been mentioned, but this is the first I have seen about it.

JVC 3D: Been there, done that, bought a DLP
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post #2352 of 9087 Old 12-24-2012, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:

it's a bummer they didn't shoot it in 3D to begin with. These guys are geniuses who filmed this. I would definitely check out a 3D conversion.

these are a few shots post mini 3D 125 setup on the RS55. It's the best i've seen this projector look.

JVC-MINI3D20.jpg

JVC-MINI3D21.jpg

JVC-MINI3D22.jpg

JVC-MINI3D23.jpg

JVC-MINI3D24.jpg

JVC-MINI3D1.jpg

JVC-MINI3D13.jpg

JVC-MINI3D3.jpg

JVC-MINI3D4.jpg

JVC-MINI3D5.jpg

JVC-MINI3D6.jpg

JVC-MINI3D7.jpg

JVC-MINI3D8.jpg

JVC-MINI3D9.jpg

JVC-MINI3D10.jpg

JVC-MINI3D11.jpg

JVC-MINI3D12.jpg

JVC-MINI3D16.jpg

JVC-MINI3D17.jpg

JVC-MINI3D18.jpg


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post #2353 of 9087 Old 12-24-2012, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilya Volk View Post

Well, from all we know it looks like HC8000D currently has no alternatives (under $10k) for anyone who wants decent 2D and perfect 3D in one PJ.
Sharp xv-z30000 looks decent as well... If only the company were healthy.

"A wide screen just makes a bad film twice as bad. "
-Samuel Goldwyn

I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
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post #2354 of 9087 Old 12-24-2012, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Art of Flight being converted to 3d...................
http://www.redbull.com/cs/Satellite/en_INT/Article/The-Art-of-FLIGHT-3D-Todd-Cogan-from-Venture-3D-Interview-021243258148913
Maybe this has been mentioned, but this is the first I have seen about it.
Not a big 3d fan but love art of flight. Probably the most played disc I have.


My updated (2/2014)HT set-up


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post #2355 of 9087 Old 12-24-2012, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougri View Post

Sharp xv-z30000 looks decent as well... If only the company were healthy.

Oh yeah, I completely forgot about that.
There was one drawback though... Rather low native on/off (1700:1) http://www.hometheater.com/content/sharp-xv-z30000-3d-dlp-video-projector-ht-labs-measures But it is hard to be sure about that, its just one test.

I have high hopes on HC8000D contrast, because Mitsubishi has manufactured a DLP with one of the highest native CR - HC4000.
It was measured up to 4500:1 (with max zoom), and 1180:1 ANSI !!! from reliable source: http://www.ixbt.com/dvd/mitsubishi-hc4000-3900-3200.shtml#ansi
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post #2356 of 9087 Old 12-24-2012, 12:57 PM
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We cannot compare on/off from two different sources unfortunately, doesn't mean much. (but it is still interesting to see)

Oh yah I forgot to note that to Zombie, if he is near closest throw, you tend to lose half or more of Mitsubishi Native On/Off. Common with DLP's, but especially the Mits. At farthest throw the blacks and on/off should be noticeably improved, I don't know what point of the zoom he was at though. It still won't quite match the Sony, but it might get a bit closer to the Epson. I think realistically after calibration most would measure 2,500:1 to 3,500:1 on the hc4000.

Native on/off isn't fully linear either to our eyes, there is a big difference between 2000:1 and 4000:1, more than 8000:1 and 4000:1 at most peoples fL's, for same reason as brightness linearity issues to our eyes I suppose, but it does depend how bright you are watching it to how much variation your eyes will pick up on the on/off.



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post #2357 of 9087 Old 12-24-2012, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

i'll call BenQ and see if we can get a sample of the 1070, I'd like to see it.
Any news about it?


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post #2358 of 9087 Old 12-24-2012, 02:28 PM
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Slightly OT, but I just got a sony bdp-s590 ($100), so far I like it MUCH better than the other cheap bluray players I tried. I know people in here mostly use the Oppo, but I wanted Amazon On Demand built into the Bluray and didn't want to pay $500 for what I consider throw-away players. Amazon On Demand looks way better on this player than it does on my HTPC (no idea why), I guess just my HTPC player that plays Amazon is messed up. It is way clearer though on this player for whatever reason. Best Bluray player I've had yet out of 3 (LG, Samsung, Sony). The UI is bland (not much color), but we don't use the player for the UI. The Samsung has the prettiest UI but those darn Samsung and LG's always stop playing disks after a while as they get dirty too easily, and you end up having to chunk them.



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post #2359 of 9087 Old 12-24-2012, 03:16 PM
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About the contrast difference in Iris modes,...
On the Epson Iris modes differ in how fast they work, not how deep the black goes.
Is this the same with the Mitsubishi HC8000?

Also, you wrote that the JVC has the best ground black and than the Epson and Sony.
Is this also for the JVC RS46?
That lowest in line JVC is comparable with the Epson's and Sony's price.
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post #2360 of 9087 Old 12-24-2012, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

it's a bummer they didn't shoot it in 3D to begin with. These guys are geniuses who filmed this. I would definitely check out a 3D conversion.
these are a few shots post mini 3D 125 setup on the RS55. It's the best i've seen this projector look.
JVC-MINI3D20.jpg
JVC-MINI3D21.jpg
JVC-MINI3D22.jpg
JVC-MINI3D23.jpg
JVC-MINI3D24.jpg
JVC-MINI3D1.jpg
JVC-MINI3D13.jpg
JVC-MINI3D3.jpg
JVC-MINI3D4.jpg
JVC-MINI3D5.jpg
JVC-MINI3D6.jpg
JVC-MINI3D7.jpg
JVC-MINI3D8.jpg
JVC-MINI3D9.jpg
JVC-MINI3D10.jpg
JVC-MINI3D11.jpg
JVC-MINI3D12.jpg
JVC-MINI3D16.jpg
JVC-MINI3D17.jpg
JVC-MINI3D18.jpg

Those caps look amazing on the RS55. Would love to see the HW50 w/ auto-calmonmthe same material.

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post #2361 of 9087 Old 12-24-2012, 03:55 PM
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Photo's look incredible indeed.
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post #2362 of 9087 Old 12-24-2012, 04:10 PM
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Start a new thread and post it in the correct section (htpc is closest I think in this forum), most pre-fab NAS are horribly slow unless you buy a really expensive one, that's the difference. That's about it as long as your case has good ventilation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthieu View Post

About the contrast difference in Iris modes,...
On the Epson Iris modes differ in how fast they work, not how deep the black goes.
Is this the same with the Mitsubishi HC8000?
Also, you wrote that the JVC has the best ground black and than the Epson and Sony.
Is this also for the JVC RS46?
That lowest in line JVC is comparable with the Epson's and Sony's price.

Yes, the RS-46 has better contrast than the Sony or the Epson, but according to Z the Sony hw50 gets close enough for most people to be happy.

Actually the blacks LIKELY work something like this (>= meaning really close but probably wins):

All Recent JVC's > Sony vw95es >= Sony hw50 > Epson 5010/5020 >= Sonyhw30 > Mitsubishi hc8000 > Benq w7000 > Optoma hd33 if you count no IRIS



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post #2363 of 9087 Old 12-24-2012, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Actually the blacks LIKELY work something like this (>= meaning really close but probably wins):
All Recent JVC's > Sony vw95es >= Sony hw50 > Epson 5010/5020 >= Sonyhw30 > Mitsubishi hc8000 > Benq w7000 > Optoma hd33 if you count no IRIS
(Sorry for slightly OT). Any idea where the Panasonic PT-AE8000U would be in that list above? Thanks & happy holidays
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post #2364 of 9087 Old 12-25-2012, 03:46 AM
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JVC`s X90 Dynamic/clarity range as far as the camera can replicate Pulp Fiction sample.

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post #2365 of 9087 Old 12-25-2012, 04:25 AM
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@zombie10k friend will you calibrate sonyhw50es with this lumagen equipment and tell us reports later?
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post #2366 of 9087 Old 12-25-2012, 07:23 AM
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I currently have the JVC RS45 and use it with an anamorphic lens on a 138" diagonal Stewart 130 screen in a totally light controlled room. The projector is 17 feet from the screen,ceiling mounted and I sit 18 feet away. I have always enjoyed the JVC picture and have owned the RS2 and 20 in the past. I like others was hoping for a large improvement in 3D for the current JVCs but am disappointed in what I am reading here (Thank you Zombie for all the great work). With that said I am considering changing to the Sony 50 but do have a few concerns.I don't have any place to see the Sony near me so I am counting on others here for help ( I did see the 30 last year and thought it was very nice). I think with my large screen since I don't clamp down the iris the black levels on the Sony may be close and I know overall the 2D picture would be slightly better on the JVC.
I use my projector 99% for bluray movies and probably 80% 2D BUT I am really enjoying 3D and find myself buying more and more 3D blurays. This leads to my main question.
The Sony 50 will not vertically stretch 240 aspect ratio movies and I totally enjoy using my full screen ( the JVC brightness is still not to bad) I have the Oppo 93 but I asked the question in the Sony 50 thread and was told it doesn't do it either (am wondering if the Oppo 103 does). I am also wondering if it is a limitation of the Sony or the Oppo or something to do with the discs and is there a way around it besides buying a Lumagen.
Anyone with this combo out there with some input would be much appreciated. Also comments on the change from JVC to Sony in general would also be appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Merry Christmas to all
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post #2367 of 9087 Old 12-25-2012, 07:48 AM
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Is the difference in contrast ratio between the RS4810 and the RS55/RS56 very noticeable to the naked eye? Not that I would of necessarily been able to spring the extra cost for the RS55/RS56, but I'm just curious lol. I know screen shots of the projector images are in now way accurate but I do enjoy seeing them. I'd like to see some of the RS4810 if anyone has them biggrin.gif I'm taking off of work the rest of the week to try and finish my theater room so I can finally hook up my RS4810
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post #2368 of 9087 Old 12-25-2012, 07:54 AM
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When the dla-x55r is going to be available in best buy?
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post #2369 of 9087 Old 12-25-2012, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOE-C View Post

I currently have the JVC RS45 and use it with an anamorphic lens on a 138" diagonal Stewart 130 screen in a totally light controlled room. The projector is 17 feet from the screen,ceiling mounted and I sit 18 feet away. I have always enjoyed the JVC picture and have owned the RS2 and 20 in the past. I like others was hoping for a large improvement in 3D for the current JVCs but am disappointed in what I am reading here (Thank you Zombie for all the great work). With that said I am considering changing to the Sony 50 but do have a few concerns.I don't have any place to see the Sony near me so I am counting on others here for help ( I did see the 30 last year and thought it was very nice). I think with my large screen since I don't clamp down the iris the black levels on the Sony may be close and I know overall the 2D picture would be slightly better on the JVC.
I use my projector 99% for bluray movies and probably 80% 2D BUT I am really enjoying 3D and find myself buying more and more 3D blurays. This leads to my main question.
The Sony 50 will not vertically stretch 240 aspect ratio movies and I totally enjoy using my full screen ( the JVC brightness is still not to bad) I have the Oppo 93 but I asked the question in the Sony 50 thread and was told it doesn't do it either (am wondering if the Oppo 103 does). I am also wondering if it is a limitation of the Sony or the Oppo or something to do with the discs and is there a way around it besides buying a Lumagen.
Anyone with this combo out there with some input would be much appreciated. Also comments on the change from JVC to Sony in general would also be appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Merry Christmas to all

I too was hoping for better 3D from the new JVCs and I too have the JVC. Having said that I decided to jump ship early and I ordered the HW50 which I should have by later this week. I'll post my basic impressions so as to give others another opinion. I probably won't do a side by side but for my main concerns (dark scene performance, sharpness, brightness, 3D ghosting, FI, intrascene contrast( I'll know fairly quickly how the two compare. I have a 119" Dalite HP with about an 18' throw. When I demoed in store (in nearly a completely darkened room since I brought curtains to cover the glass windows) The contrast looked fairly similar on the HW50 compared to my JVC. Again from memory I think the biggest difference I saw between the two was the fact that I have my iris clamped to -15 on my JVC. If I bumped it up to say -7 or even 0 I'm not sure the JVC would be that much better. I'll know more later this week as I plan on doing some testing on the JVC before with the iris in different positions before turning on the Sony.
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post #2370 of 9087 Old 12-25-2012, 08:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOE-C View Post

I currently have the JVC RS45 and use it with an anamorphic lens on a 138" diagonal Stewart 130 screen in a totally light controlled room. The projector is 17 feet from the screen,ceiling mounted and I sit 18 feet away. I have always enjoyed the JVC picture and have owned the RS2 and 20 in the past. I like others was hoping for a large improvement in 3D for the current JVCs but am disappointed in what I am reading here (Thank you Zombie for all the great work). With that said I am considering changing to the Sony 50 but do have a few concerns.I don't have any place to see the Sony near me so I am counting on others here for help ( I did see the 30 last year and thought it was very nice). I think with my large screen since I don't clamp down the iris the black levels on the Sony may be close and I know overall the 2D picture would be slightly better on the JVC.

I use my projector 99% for bluray movies and probably 80% 2D BUT I am really enjoying 3D and find myself buying more and more 3D blurays. This leads to my main question.

The Sony 50 will not vertically stretch 240 aspect ratio movies and I totally enjoy using my full screen ( the JVC brightness is still not to bad) I have the Oppo 93 but I asked the question in the Sony 50 thread and was told it doesn't do it either (am wondering if the Oppo 103 does). I am also wondering if it is a limitation of the Sony or the Oppo or something to do with the discs and is there a way around it besides buying a Lumagen.

Anyone with this combo out there with some input would be much appreciated. Also comments on the change from JVC to Sony in general would also be appreciated.
Thanks in advance

Merry Christmas to all

Joe, moving from the RS45 to the HW50 should be an easy move, the HW50's 2D is excellent overall and a noticeable improvement in black level / contrast from the HW30. The reality creation will look great on your 138".

The HW50 supports the v-stretch in 2D only, not sure why they left this out for 3D. It looks like the Oppo 93 can only do it for movies that don't have BD-JAVA. it looks like you got a 'guestimate' answer in the 103 thread, I'd keep pressing or call Oppo to confirm for certain that it supports V-stretch for all 3D movies.


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