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post #2521 of 8765 Old 12-28-2012, 01:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

There isn't much objective info to go by on these reviews. There is no 3D lumen comparisons, through the lens screenshots or direct A/B comparisons.
If the post firmware RS46/X35 patch makes the 3D the same as the RS4810, then the HW50 is going to exceed it by nearly 2x the 3D output with the CT controls set to factory (0) for minimal crosstalk.
Pre-firmware, the RS46 3D output is ~900 lumens, but with identical performance to the current RS45/55.
The HW50 2D PQ is closer to the JVC this year than the HW30 was last year. It's a tough decision depending on how important 3D is. The HW50 has less flicker and the FI in 3D to consider as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

There isn't much objective info to go by on these reviews. There is no 3D lumen comparisons, through the lens screenshots or direct A/B comparisons.
If the post firmware RS46/X35 patch makes the 3D the same as the RS4810, then the HW50 is going to exceed it by nearly 2x the 3D output with the CT controls set to factory (0) for minimal crosstalk.
Pre-firmware, the RS46 3D output is ~900 lumens, but with identical performance to the current RS45/55.
The HW50 2D PQ is closer to the JVC this year than the HW30 was last year. It's a tough decision depending on how important 3D is. The HW50 has less flicker and the FI in 3D to consider as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

There isn't much objective info to go by on these reviews. There is no 3D lumen comparisons, through the lens screenshots or direct A/B comparisons.
If the post firmware RS46/X35 patch makes the 3D the same as the RS4810, then the HW50 is going to exceed it by nearly 2x the 3D output with the CT controls set to factory (0) for minimal crosstalk.
Pre-firmware, the RS46 3D output is ~900 lumens, but with identical performance to the current RS45/55.
The HW50 2D PQ is closer to the JVC this year than the HW30 was last year. It's a tough decision depending on how important 3D is. The HW50 has less flicker and the FI in 3D to consider as well.
I know there isn't objective! That's why I am waiting for your final review... The reason is that I love jvc's 2d and I hope that if with the new firmware fixed the 3d issue then this would be my next projector... 4810 is less brighter in the specs as well... 1300 ANSI for 46 1200 ANSI for 4810... That's the reason I am still hoping... By the end I believe that is better to have a projector with the best 2d possible and an acceptable 3d than the opposite. I prefer jvc to be as close as possible to sony's 3d than sony to be close to jvc's 2d! All this with the hope that after the new firmware rs46 will be like sony in terms of ghosting and a little bit less bright... I own 4000 original DVD and blueray.... Only 43 of them are 3d...
If you translate these reviews from France, they also mention that rs46 is brighter than 4810 ! 939 lumens vs 539!!!

http://www.audiovideohd.fr/tests/351-JVC-X35-5.html
http://www.audiovideohd.fr/tests/342-JVC-DLA-X55-5.html
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post #2522 of 8765 Old 12-28-2012, 03:56 AM
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Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Both you err guys are getting old, it's menapause, nothing more, nothing less. smile.gif
I do want to clear something else that zombie10K I think said.
My comments about Bluray 1080p be so vastly inferior to 2K and 4K DCI content and feeds. Zombie said what I was seeing, flaws in the bluray 1080p medium being visable on because of my superior projector, the 4K Sony VPL-vw1000ES and my reference quality Stewart Snomatt 100 screen.
That is not the reason. Its comparing DCI feeds to commercial 2K and 4K DCI machines and then viewing the same Bluray material on my 1000ES fed by Bluray 1080p. The greater bit depth and absence of edge enhancement compared to 8 bit and severely edge enhanced Bluray content. My comments thus are not dependent on the quality of the 1080p projectors compared to the 1000ES. The projectors under discussion in this thread are fine machines and for many are their proud possessions chosen in part because of the great information presented by zombie and verified and supllemented by many of the participants here. All these machines like any other machines have strengths and weaknesses. many caused by compromises necessitated because of the price points and some of course by the type of technology employed.
My comments go to the weaknesses of Blurays noticed by me and others whose cmpetence would be recognized by all if I were at liberty to identify them not posting here but who have posted in the past based on their observations of DCI content on their commerciasl quality msachines present in theirs HTs. I hope as the late president Kennedy once said, have I made myself perfectly clear?.

Hi Mark,

So let's say I had a great source...like the red 4k player. Would we notice a better difference in quality when we play it on our 1080p PJ's>...since the blurays are hampered in quality.

I remember having run my Oppo BDP83 bluray player through my old SD PJ and noticed a difference in picture quality.
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post #2523 of 8765 Old 12-28-2012, 05:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

My comments go to the weaknesses of Blurays noticed by me and others whose cmpetence would be recognized by all if I were at liberty to identify them not posting here but who have posted in the past based on their observations of DCI content on their commerciasl quality msachines present in theirs HTs. I hope as the late president Kennedy once said, have I made myself perfectly clear?.

everyone know that 4K Redray or a 2K commercial stream is going to be better than bluray. There is no arguments here.

my comment was based on your criticism that people shouldn't obsess over fan noise or 3D performance. By that idea, they shouldn't be concerned about BD quality either.... this is a comparison thread and these are the projector qualities folks are interested in. There are a number of other threads to discuss BD quality vs. the pending future formats.

I know folks will be looking forward to your observations of seeing some real 4K content on the VW1000. It's a look into the future, but not something that is viable today or tomorrow for the vast majority of forum visitors. We are stuck with BD for now but I'll have to find a way to suffer through the terrible PQ until the future arrives. cool.gif
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post #2524 of 8765 Old 12-28-2012, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

If the post firmware RS46/X35 patch makes the 3D [/b]the same as the RS4810, then the HW50 is going to exceed it by nearly 2x the 3D output with the CT controls set to factory (0) for minimal crosstalk.
Pre-firmware, the RS46 3D output is ~900 lumens, but with identical performance to the current RS45/55.

Are you planning to update your RS46 and give a report? So far, nobody has reported anything on lumen output with updated RS46/X35 switcher #s.

(which makes me wonder if it's worth the "update" if ghosting is improved at the expense of significant lumens ...)

confused.gifconfused.gifconfused.gif
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post #2525 of 8765 Old 12-28-2012, 05:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cl7gr View Post

I know there isn't objective! That's why I am waiting for your final review... The reason is that I love jvc's 2d and I hope that if with the new firmware fixed the 3d issue then this would be my next projector... 4810 is less brighter in the specs as well... 1300 ANSI for 46 1200 ANSI for 4810... That's the reason I am still hoping... By the end I believe that is better to have a projector with the best 2d possible and an acceptable 3d than the opposite. I prefer jvc to be as close as possible to sony's 3d than sony to be close to jvc's 2d! All this with the hope that after the new firmware rs46 will be like sony in terms of ghosting and a little bit less bright... I own 4000 original DVD and blueray.... Only 43 of them are 3d...
If you translate these reviews from France, they also mention that rs46 is brighter than 4810 ! 939 lumens vs 539!!!

Hi, you have a look a little closer at those reviews. The X55 was a pre-release model. In a direct A/B with a production RS46 vs. RS4810 (and swapping lamps) the RS4810 was slightly brighter in 2D mode vs. the RS46, despite what the marketing copy says.. so the 939 vs. 539 is invalid.

Here's what we know so far. The RS46 (pre-firmware) is ~900 lumens in 3D. Veteran JVC owners would immediately mistake it for the RS45 on RS55 in 3D, it looks identical. The RS4810 with the current firmware is ~ 559 lumens in 3D mode with CT @ 0 and ~860 lumens with the CT controls @ 8 which has more visible crosstalk.

The HW50 is ~1000 lumens in 3D with no other changes to the controls. I don't know if the RS46 post firmware is going to look identical to the RS4810, we have to wait for a solid report from someone who has seen both. The RS46 I have won't be updated until January some time, so it's going to be a while before I have any more information on this topic.

from your comment above, it sounds like you're leaning towards the JVC since 2D is a primary concern. Folks seeing the HW50 and the JVC in a direct A/B could have a tough time picking a favorite since Sony has increased their PQ from the HW30 to the HW50 by a fair bit. it's definitely not an easy decision picking between the 2.
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post #2526 of 8765 Old 12-28-2012, 05:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Reborn View Post

Are you planning to update your RS46 and give a report? So far, nobody has reported anything on lumen output with updated RS46/X35 switcher #s.

(which makes me wonder if it's worth the "update" if ghosting is improved at the expense of significant lumens ...)
confused.gifconfused.gifconfused.gif

It could be a while, i'm not sure if this one will get updated. So it's not taken out of context, I'm not saying the RS46 pre-firmware has un-watchable 3D. It's fine for quite a number of 3D movies. the biggest complaint is dark on light ghosting. This stands out mainly in 3D animations. I watched Spiderman 3D on my RS55 a few weeks ago and thought it looked great since crosstalk is minimal with this particular movie.

The panels are the same or similar from the 1st gen JVC in 2010, so there had to be a compromise between reducing crosstalk artifacts vs total 3D brightness. This is obviously being done in software considering how different the pre-firmware 46 looks vs the 4810. The change also slightly reduces the contrast and overall depth appearance as well. Personally, i'd probably keep the pre-firmware since I prefer bright 3D and can deal with some of the crosstalk once in a while vs. dimmer 3D.
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post #2527 of 8765 Old 12-28-2012, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Hi, you have a look a little closer at those reviews. The X55 was a pre-release model. In a direct A/B with a production RS46 vs. RS4810 (and swapping lamps) the RS4810 was slightly brighter in 2D mode vs. the RS46, despite what the marketing copy says.. so the 939 vs. 539 is invalid.
Here's what we know so far. The RS46 (pre-firmware) is ~900 lumens in 3D. Veteran JVC owners would immediately mistake it for the RS45 on RS55 in 3D, it looks identical. The RS4810 with the current firmware is ~ 559 lumens in 3D mode with CT @ 0 and ~860 lumens with the CT controls @ 8 which has more visible crosstalk.
The HW50 is ~1000 lumens in 3D with no other changes to the controls. I don't know if the RS46 post firmware is going to look identical to the RS4810, we have to wait for a solid report from someone who has seen both. The RS46 I have won't be updated until January some time, so it's going to be a while before I have any more information on this topic.
from your comment above, it sounds like you're leaning towards the JVC since 2D is a primary concern. Folks seeing the HW50 and the JVC in a direct A/B could have a tough time picking a favorite since Sony has increased their PQ from the HW30 to the HW50 by a fair bit. it's definitely not an easy decision picking between the 2.

I think I keep leaning towards the Sony with all things considered. I think it should work in my room alright. Now I just have to finish said room. Something tells me I'll be projecting onto a bed sheet for the first month or so until I get sheet-rock up.... just a sad (but probably true) prediction.

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post #2528 of 8765 Old 12-28-2012, 06:12 AM
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I’ve read every page here, and I just want to thank you Zombie for your efforts!
The research you’ve done and especially the ghosting screen shots are so much help to those of us looking for a good 3D projector experience.

I’m an older long-time film collector (16mm!!!) who mostly watches classic content and has a set-up that would make most of you here cringe. Super-long throw (23.4 feet!) and a 12-foot wide painted 1.1 gain screen for full scope (please don’t hate me!), but in a dedicated basement theater room with optimal light conditions, pretty much a “bat-cave” as those around here say, albeit an art-deco one.

I don’t really want the “giant plasma” effect, I’m just trying for a decent old-school film-like theatrical experience, and to me that means SIZE first. I want to be in my neighborhood cinema(s) from the 1960’s and early 70’s. I want to buy a good projector and have it run trouble free for at least 4 years (my last one I kept 7, can you imagine the amount of quality increase I saw on upgrading?) So I very much appreciate the obsessive dedication some of you guys here bring to all of this.

I have a JVC RS40 that I absolutely love, it’s actually bright enough for me in my set-up although I know it wouldn’t be for most here. I am a huge fan of the blacks and the super-smooth picture of D-ILA (I sit crazy close too, I break all the rules), but it recently stopped sending the 3D IR signal. Not the emitter, I tried a new one. Also starting to display an occasional glitch when I switch sources or modes where the image will go all green or sometimes all red/yellow for a second or two. So there’s trouble inside, but I’m still under warranty for another month so I’m sending her in.

BUT even I haven’t been happy with the brightness and ghosting for 3D on this, so here’s my excuse to look into the two-projector dedicated 3D route, because I’m also a serious 3D fan, and again, a big picture is essential to really experience 3D imho. I would go for the BenQ but I’m one who sees rainbows like crazy, and since the Epson 5020 seems to be the brightness champ, and from the screen shots the ghosting seems to be pretty damn minimal, I’m trying one out. Should have it Sunday and can return it for 30 days no questions asked, and best of all can have it while the JVC’s in the shop. My plan is to keep both if they can save the 40 and if I like it just use the Epson for the depthies.

So again, thanks to all here, I really needed your work to make a decision.
One question –
Is there a phone number where I can actually talk to a human being at JVC service? I can’t seem to find one.

And as to the ButtKicker that’s suddenly appeared in the conversation, if someone’s looking for one, contact me.

S A M 33
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post #2529 of 8765 Old 12-28-2012, 06:17 AM
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I received my HW50 last night and spent a very short time with it.

With the 2 Sony glasses I received I found the glasses to be constantly losing sync. My projector is mounted lower than normal and the emitter is on bottom which is also slightly angled to the side. I'll have to see if mounting the projector slightly higher helps or if I'll have to get the external emitter. I still have to try out my Xpand X104s.

Before I set up the HW50 I viewed a few clips on my RS45 and cycled through different manual iris settings (0, -5, -10, -15). For 2D I have always watched movies with the iris at -15. In this setting I will say that the HW50 (in low lamp mode with either the Auto Iris or Manual Iris) will not do blacks quite like the RS45 (whether we are talking dark or the darkest of dark scenes). For those who must have the blackest of blacks the JVC is going to have the edge if you are willing to clamp down the iris.

The FI and brightness of the HW50 in 3D makes it a much nicer 3D projector over the RS45 however I do find dark scenes looking grayish in 3D on the Sony. frown.gif

Maybe I should try out an ND filter. Yes, I am picky when it comes to black levels. I'll post more late tonight or sometime tomorrow when I can do some more comparisons.
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post #2530 of 8765 Old 12-28-2012, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

It could be a while, i'm not sure if this one will get updated. So it's not taken out of context, I'm not saying the RS46 pre-firmware has un-watchable 3D. It's fine for quite a number of 3D movies. the biggest complaint is dark on light ghosting. This stands out mainly in 3D animations. I watched Spiderman 3D on my RS55 a few weeks ago and thought it looked great since crosstalk is minimal with this particular movie.
The panels are the same or similar from the 1st gen JVC in 2010, so there had to be a compromise between reducing crosstalk artifacts vs total 3D brightness. This is obviously being done in software considering how different the pre-firmware 46 looks vs the 4810. The change also slightly reduces the contrast and overall depth appearance as well. Personally, i'd probably keep the pre-firmware since I prefer bright 3D and can deal with some of the crosstalk once in a while vs. dimmer 3D.

Thanks so much for this info, Z!

As a result, until we get more post-update measurements, I will be in no rush to update mine. JVC North America seems to be on "holidays" right now since nobody (dealers, jvc.ca, jvc.com) has a clue about this problem still even though Europe has reported it for several weeks.
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post #2531 of 8765 Old 12-28-2012, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

I received my HW50 last night and spent a very short time with it.
With the 2 Sony glasses I received I found the glasses to be constantly losing sync. My projector is mounted lower than normal and the emitter is on bottom which is also slightly angled to the side. I'll have to see if mounting the projector slightly higher helps or if I'll have to get the external emitter. I still have to try out my Xpand X104s.
Before I set up the HW50 I viewed a few clips on my RS45 and cycled through different manual iris settings (0, -5, -10, -15). For 2D I have always watched movies with the iris at -15. In this setting I will say that the HW50 (in low lamp mode with either the Auto Iris or Manual Iris) will not do blacks quite like the RS45 (whether we are talking dark or the darkest of dark scenes). For those who must have the blackest of blacks the JVC is going to have the edge if you are willing to clamp down the iris.
The FI and brightness of the HW50 in 3D makes it a much nicer 3D projector over the RS45 however I do find dark scenes looking grayish in 3D on the Sony. frown.gif
Maybe I should try out an ND filter. Yes, I am picky when it comes to black levels. I'll post more late tonight or sometime tomorrow when I can do some more comparisons.

we will wait a full review from you my friend, i am between epson5020 and sonyhw50es thanks, have nice days with your new proj
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post #2532 of 8765 Old 12-28-2012, 06:33 AM
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Thank you very much Jason! You are very helpful :-)
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post #2533 of 8765 Old 12-28-2012, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The RS4810 with the current firmware is ~ 559 lumens in 3D mode with CT @ 0 and ~860 lumens with the CT controls @ 8 which has more visible crosstalk.

Hi Z,

I'm not sure if you already answered this or not ...

Is the 3D crosstalk performance on the RS4810 with CT @ 8 noticeably better than the pre-firmware RS46?
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post #2534 of 8765 Old 12-28-2012, 08:32 AM
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you're going to hate this projector, I can't believe you bought it. we're never going to hear the end of this if you don't like it....
this is all toe's fault. btw, the buttkicker is one of the coolest things ever... this is never going to get old.. it's a perfect extension of my subs.

Glad you like you butt being kicked.smile.gif enjoy

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post #2535 of 8765 Old 12-28-2012, 08:35 AM
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The old saying is true, this forum is the most expensive place I ever visited. Geeze, now still have to buy a Lumagen, some b-kicker thing, replace HT speakers, get some super blacker than black materials, more 3D glasses.
When does it stop...

It never stops. The only thing that stops is you and we all hope that doesn't happen for a very long time. Happy new year.

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post #2536 of 8765 Old 12-28-2012, 08:36 AM
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Glad you like you butt being kicked.smile.gif enjoy
--Insert wife joke here-- smile.gif

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post #2537 of 8765 Old 12-28-2012, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by buddhamus View Post

Hi Mark,
So let's say I had a great source...like the red 4k player. Would we notice a better difference in quality when we play it on our 1080p PJ's>...since the blurays are hampered in quality.
I remember having run my Oppo BDP83 bluray player through my old SD PJ and noticed a difference in picture quality.

That is a good question. The Redray can output 4K, 4HD, 1 HD (1080p) and 2/3 HD (720p).

I suppose its easier to subtract pixels that exist than to generate ones that don't exist. I do not know about exit bit rates and things like that or what our mahines can accept bit wise but I would think the answer would be yes but others who know more about this can comment. We will certainly find out. Right now Feb can't come quick enough. not because I really need it by then but on Feb 4, winter is half over and the end of winter can't come soon enough for me living in fridged MD.

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post #2538 of 8765 Old 12-28-2012, 08:51 AM
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I suppose if the Red ray device can output at 1080p but using higher bit depth than the 8 bit we get with BluRay then that alone could be a good reason to use one with a 1080p display (so long as the display can accept 10 or 12 bit). Also if it could do vertical stretch in 4K before downscaling to 1080p then there could possibly be an improvement for A Lens users. However, if the extra resolution is compromised by lower bit rates then we could have a similar situation to HD broadcasts that look no better than SD, but there isn't any reason that they should do this unless it's downloadable content and they are trying to reduce bandwidth.

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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post #2539 of 8765 Old 12-28-2012, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by cl7gr View Post

I know there isn't objective! That's why I am waiting for your final review...

I'll give you an "objection", the JVC 3D is not good, and I'd bet as the RS-46 lamp ages, the 3D will also not be good. At first I watched it with sub-200 hours on the lamp on an RS-45, and it was bareable for 20% of movies. Now the first 4 (3d) blurays I bought were the ones known not to ghost much as per recommendations from the forum. These blurays with an older lamp now ghost more than Casper (say after 300-500 hours).

Zombie is providing great information, but he also cannot stir the bees up too much in here (because bees sting), but I've already been stung so much I am almost immune. Let me say to you (and the bees), the JVC is absolute suckage for 3D, now if they improved on that suckage, then it will just be sucky. They have many many levels to improve before it will be "ok" or "good enuff". There are blurays you will cringe at, things that look absolutely horrid in 3D on the JVC. There are times it looks ok, but watching a JVC in 3D is not enjoying the movie, in 80%+ of movies, the ghosting will totally drive you mad eventually. Once the 3D honeymoon wears off, you'll be like wow I am so sick of seeing traces and double images, it just gets old fast. There is no way I believe from what I've read so far that JVC 3D is all that much improved, better - a little, but wait until that lamp ages.

Again, if going one projector solution, Sony hw50 sounds like a great device, if not caring about 3D - JVC all the way, if wanting 3D with a JVC, then get a second projector.

Hint: They sell a Benq w1070 for around $1100 USD on ebay shipped from Canada, or look at the Optoma hd33. Just watch out for the short throw distances and lack of zoom.

Disclaimer: My opinion is that of a disgruntled 3D JVC user that ordered a Benq w7000.
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post #2540 of 8765 Old 12-28-2012, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

The old saying is true, this forum is the most expensive place I ever visited. Geeze, now still have to buy a Lumagen, some b-kicker thing, replace HT speakers, get some super blacker than black materials, more 3D glasses.
When does it stop...

It never stops. Piece of advice: Stop counting the number of projectors you have owned; evenutally you will lose track anyway. Look at it this way, it is cheaper than collecting Corvettes, or owning a nice boat.
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post #2541 of 8765 Old 12-28-2012, 09:13 AM
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It's not cheaper than owning a different projector in every corvette :P


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post #2542 of 8765 Old 12-28-2012, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

I received my HW50 last night and spent a very short time with it.
With the 2 Sony glasses I received I found the glasses to be constantly losing sync. My projector is mounted lower than normal and the emitter is on bottom which is also slightly angled to the side. I'll have to see if mounting the projector slightly higher helps or if I'll have to get the external emitter. I still have to try out my Xpand X104s.
Before I set up the HW50 I viewed a few clips on my RS45 and cycled through different manual iris settings (0, -5, -10, -15). For 2D I have always watched movies with the iris at -15. In this setting I will say that the HW50 (in low lamp mode with either the Auto Iris or Manual Iris) will not do blacks quite like the RS45 (whether we are talking dark or the darkest of dark scenes). For those who must have the blackest of blacks the JVC is going to have the edge if you are willing to clamp down the iris.
The FI and brightness of the HW50 in 3D makes it a much nicer 3D projector over the RS45 however I do find dark scenes looking grayish in 3D on the Sony. frown.gif
Maybe I should try out an ND filter. Yes, I am picky when it comes to black levels. I'll post more late tonight or sometime tomorrow when I can do some more comparisons.

Concerning the black levels, I think that settles it for me--I will most likely get the RS46. I considered the HW50 (and even the HW30), but I think I would miss the JVC blacks too much.
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post #2543 of 8765 Old 12-28-2012, 09:31 AM
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The hw50 is a lot brighter than the JVC, so keep that in mind that needs to be equalized. That said, the JVC will do darker blacks, but if one projector is brighter it's hard to compare.


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- Quick Peak at the new upcoming calculator
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post #2544 of 8765 Old 12-28-2012, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by KMR View Post

Concerning the black levels, I think that settles it for me--I will most likely get the RS46. I considered the HW50 (and even the HW30), but I think I would miss the JVC blacks too much.

make sure you read the fine print from his comment.. he is running @ -15 on the iris. This may not be possible for a number of common setups such as a large screen with a low gain, etc.
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post #2545 of 8765 Old 12-28-2012, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dragon Reborn View Post

Hi Z,

I'm not sure if you already answered this or not ...

Is the 3D crosstalk performance on the RS4810 with CT @ 8 noticeably better than the pre-firmware RS46?

Technically, yes it is, but at the expense of a fair amount of brightness and (imo) a reduction of overall PQ as a result of the changes that were made. This wouldn't be immediately obvious unless someone had them in a direct A/B stack like I had them setup. It seems like the colors and contrast are muted in comparison to the RSRS46 (prefirmware).

All factory settings, RS46 (pre-firmware) on top, RS4810 on the bottom.

3D-shootout13.jpg

3D-shootout14.jpg

3D-shootout15.jpg

3D-shootout16.jpg

3D-shootout17.jpg

3D-shootout18.jpg

I watched several movies on the 5020 last night and the 3D, imo, is much better overall vs. the 4810.

As I mentioned earlier, I'd probably leave the firmware alone because I wouldn't want to give up that much light (assuming post firmware results turn it in the 4810's 3D).
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post #2546 of 8765 Old 12-28-2012, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I'll give you an "objection", the JVC 3D is not good, and I'd bet as the RS-46 lamp ages, the 3D will also not be good. At first I watched it with sub-200 hours on the lamp on an RS-45, and it was bareable for 20% of movies. Now the first 4 (3d) blurays I bought were the ones known not to ghost much as per recommendations from the forum. These blurays with an older lamp now ghost more than Casper (say after 300-500 hours).
Zombie is providing great information, but he also cannot stir the bees up too much in here (because bees sting), but I've already been stung so much I am almost immune. Let me say to you (and the bees), the JVC is absolute suckage for 3D, now if they improved on that suckage, then it will just be sucky. They have many many levels to improve before it will be "ok" or "good enuff". There are blurays you will cringe at, things that look absolutely horrid in 3D on the JVC. There are times it looks ok, but watching a JVC in 3D is not enjoying the movie, in 80%+ of movies, the ghosting will totally drive you mad eventually. Once the 3D honeymoon wears off, you'll be like wow I am so sick of seeing traces and double images, it just gets old fast. There is no way I believe from what I've read so far that JVC 3D is all that much improved, better - a little, but wait until that lamp ages.
Again, if going one projector solution, Sony hw50 sounds like a great device, if not caring about 3D - JVC all the way, if wanting 3D with a JVC, then get a second projector.
Hint: They sell a Benq w1070 for around $1100 USD on ebay shipped from Canada, or look at the Optoma hd33. Just watch out for the short throw distances and lack of zoom.
Disclaimer: My opinion is that of a disgruntled 3D JVC user that ordered a Benq w7000.

Hope the bee stings don't hurt too much anymore. I am starting to think that the two projector solution is the way to go if one is interested in 3D. There are several new low priced 1080p DLP projectors that are bright and will show no ghosting. Waiting to hear more about the new Benq W1070 as a second 3D and casual viewing projector. One could get the RS46 and one of these for less than the 4810. I bet by next year JVC will introduce totally revised models with the issues fixed.
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post #2547 of 8765 Old 12-28-2012, 10:16 AM
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Maybe Zombie can test the JVC and Sony with sbs 3D material. The Epson is amazing with this type of 3D material. If I were to move to another it has to handle thid type of 3D at least as well as the Epson.

I agree. The Epson does just about as well with 120hz 3D material as it does with 24p Blu-ray 3D. The dark ghosting on my JVCs was so bad that I gave up watching 120hz 3D on it almost immediately. I couldn't stand my own JVC 3D camcorder footage on the RS40. I watched it exclusively on a Samsung 3D plasma, even when the lamp was new on the JVC. I'm still very excited about the Red laser projector, but if it can't at least match the Epson in terms of both contrast and ghosting, I won't invest in it. The Epson is far from perfect, but it does a lot of things really well, including very satisfying, bright 3D.

Jason,

My Buttkicker kit arrived (from the company you posted about last week), but I've decided to install it with a new SVS sub that's coming next Thursday. Initially, I'm going to mount it in the basement on the floor joists just below my main seat. (Thanks again for the tips, Toe. I should know pretty quickly if I want to keep the BK there or mount it on a platform under my main seats.) I find myself as excited about the BK as anything I've done in my home theater in the last few years. Most people react strongly and very positively to what the BK adds. I'm psyched!!!

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post #2548 of 8765 Old 12-28-2012, 10:16 AM
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Concerning the black levels, I think that settles it for me--I will most likely get the RS46. I considered the HW50 (and even the HW30), but I think I would miss the JVC blacks too much.

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make sure you read the fine print from his comment.. he is running @ -15 on the iris. This may not be possible for a number of common setups such as a large screen with a low gain, etc.

Like Zombie10k noted they key here is the iris position that I am using which is -15. Also take into consideration that I believe that I am pickier than most when it comes to black levels. For me the black levels on the JVC when the iris is set to 0 looks a little washed out in comparison to having the iris at -15. To most this difference is likely very small but like I said I think I am pickier in this area than most. Also take into consideration that I am using a Dalite HP 2.4 screen which raises black levels a little. The black levels on the Sony in store (in a darkened room) using a non-HP screen looked a little better.

I plan on a little more testing this evening demoing the Sony first and then the JVC and I am curious on what iris setting (if any) gives similar black levels compared to the Sony. I plan on posting my impressions later tonight if I can. I figure the more opinions the better as each of us have our own preferences.
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post #2549 of 8765 Old 12-28-2012, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Technically, yes it is, but at the expense of a fair amount of brightness and (imo) a reduction of overall PQ as a result of the changes that were made. This wouldn't be immediately obvious unless someone had them in a direct A/B stack like I had them setup. It seems like the colors and contrast are muted in comparison to the RSRS46 (prefirmware).
...
I watched several movies on the 5020 last night and the 3D, imo, is much better overall vs. the 4810.
As I mentioned earlier, I'd probably leave the firmware alone because I wouldn't want to give up that much light (assuming post firmware results turn it in the 4810's 3D).

Good to know ... many thanks again, Z.
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post #2550 of 8765 Old 12-28-2012, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

Like Zombie10k noted they key here is the iris position that I am using which is -15. Also take into consideration that I believe that I am pickier than most when it comes to black levels. For me the black levels on the JVC when the iris is set to 0 looks a little washed out in comparison to having the iris at -15. To most this difference is likely very small but like I said I think I am pickier in this area than most.

Further to this I'm very picky too about black levels and I first demo'd the X55 on a large screen with it zoomed to the largest size and with the iris mid position. Despite it being a very good room with black walls and ceiling I was a little disappointed with the black levels. However, I followed my gut feeling (and that I couldn't use the Sony VW50ES in my room due to zoom range) and bought the X35 anyway upgrading from an older HD350. I run at minimum zoom as well as minimum iris for 16:9 content and still get 15fL off my 1.5 gain screen. The image I see in my less than ideal room has better blacks than the X55 demo I saw and thankfully my gut instinct was right, but I'm sure it's because it's maximised by the min zoom/min iris combination. The friend where I saw the demo on his large screen chose to buy the Sony and he isn't the least bit disappointed with the blacks and enjoys a brighter picture too, so IMHO screen size/gain/throw and room conditions can slew the results either way and this is only considering 2D...

Zooming: Been there, done that, bought the lens...
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