Originally Posted by Seegs108
What I find funny about "NEEDING" to use RC on the Sony for a "proper" comparison is that this makes for an improper comparison. If we want to look specifically at native performance of the light/optical engine why would we enable something that artificially enhances subjective sharpness? If RC is needed to give that "clearer and sharper" image
Andreas and DJ are spouting I think that kind of debunks their stance on why the Sony is a better machine. I think the proper thing to say then is that the Sony has better software.
I also find it odd that they didn't notice the DI pumping issue with the Sony. Like you and others said, it was the FIRST thing that jumped out at me when demo'ing the 600ES. It's no where near the previous performance standard Sony has set with it's 1080p units. I think Sony really wanted people to think the contrast performance was closer to the 1000ES so it set the DI to be over aggressive to make the gap more narrow.The differences in shadow detail seen could be made non-existent if you spent some time with a gamma calibration
. So I see this as a moot point. The Sony is an excellent machine, there's no doubt about that. It's far better suited for larger screens and is ready for 4K content when it comes in full blast. Until then, I have to agree with Kris, from what I saw with 1080p material the JVC is the clear winner
1: Kris talked about getting the projectors, to look best possible
2. The 4K projectors NEEDS to scale a incoming 1080P signal, no matter what, so if you use the simplest and worst scaling, it going to look less than optimal ( and not a good / very fair comparison IMO)
3: I never talked about wich projector is "a better machine" only that if you want to compare and conclude something, you need to "optimize" both, the best you can ( and I think, Kris, DarinP has the same spirit or thought - no?
4: Its only your postulate, that a gamma calibration can make the shadow detail difference non-existent - not a fact, and as I understod it, both maschine where calibreted ( the Sony by TJN - with a very strange contrast setting at 71 and contrast enhancher on low or middle - IMO
and no one seems to can explain, why it was adjusted like that - someone please inlight me
- IMO if you use the "contrast enhancher" the detail ( 17-20 ) near the Black level ( 16 ) gets closer to Black ( just like setting the gamma at 2.6 ) and then to see the detail Down there Again, you would need to raise the brightness control 1-2 click up ( and thereby risk to raise the Black level 16 , higher then necessary ?
so my question about that setting was to understand, if there was something I did not realize (so I could learn), or if that there was an entirely different (reasonable) explanation as to why it was chosen one? - Generally take both Kris & TJN indeed a purist approach to settings - meaning that the less that is used by unnecessary digital proccesing / manipulation, the better - I absolutely agree with BTW - so why activate that ?
5: Im fine with your
conclusion on which projector, you
prefer - I just dont like, when someone says, that Their
conclusion is a fact, when others clearly see something different ( especially when the comparison (settings - for whatever reason), maybe is not quite optimal for them both )
6: Sorry, but I didnt see any pumping issue with the 500es, so either the material has been wrong, or I'm not as sensitive as you or my makine set "better / different" than the one you saw
Funny enought, when Cinema4Home did a test ( and allmost everbody in here normally agree on, that Ekki and his team is very thorough, objective and credible - or not
? ) with the X500 / 500ES -
Throughout the test were discarded because the images were not the 100% similar picture frame
- and so had all the pictures [/B juggled to show Sony'en alleged picture quality. It Even went so fa,r that some claimed, it was because they "sold" Sony projectors (AFAIK they sell "calibration versions" to dealers, but they also make that for JVC projectors - so it was / is a bad point.
Overall, I think there is a little too much fanboy / brand loyalty to one or another manufacturer, in many opinions in here (maybe I even sounds like or is guilty of such , but it is definitely not my opinion or position )
Precisely for this reason, we are so many in here, who enjoy, respect and like for instance. Zoombie10K:) "shootouts" - right?