Originally Posted by zombie10k
Yes the 3D in a fantastic animation like Frozen is gimmick... it looks amazing in the right setup.
There is always a 2D version so the crusade to make it go away makes little sense just don't watch it in 3D and let the others enjoy it.
Joseph is right, this thread and the predecessor started as a 3D discussion for those that were interested in it since many 2D only folks didn't want to hear about it. The 2 threads combined have a huge amount of views, one of the most popular on forum. We must be doing something right.
3D will live on for some time, just ignore it if it doesn't have any interest.
I think I've explained why we can't just ignore the latest 3D craze. I don't feel like explaining it again. I thought people came to this thread to talk about projectors. I don't mind hearing about the relative quality of 3D on these projectors, but sometimes the focus on 3D drives me nuts. Still, I usually keep quiet. But if you are going to outright address
me regarding it:
"some folks on the forum have been crusading against 3D since it's re-intro in 2009. I'm not sure I get it. if you don't like it, just watch it in 2D."
then I'm going to answer.
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark
Vent away. As the old expression goes, I don't agree with what you say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.
For the record, I never told anyone to shut up. On the contrary, I was put off by those in the old thread who wanted 3D enthusiasts to stop talking about 3D and go start their own thread. They thought 3D wasn't worthy of the attention some of us were giving it. It got testy, and since then I've been a little overly sensitive to the anti-3D "tone" that I perceived as leading to that ouster. I think of this thread as a 3D sanctuary, with a lot of like-minded 3D enthusiasts. However, I certainly don't think of all the negative 3D comments as inappropriate. I appreciate them, because they're a solid reminder that a lot of people don't like 3D. It has a plenty of room for improvement if it expects to win over the critics. Indeed, I have come to suspect that some people simply experience 3D differently than I do (on a physical level), and that those folks will never embrace it. Again, it's only the self-righteous tone that, for me, bubbles under the surface of some comments that gets to me. It's as if someone had said, "You've seen 3D. You KNOW, in our own mind, that 3D stinks. You KNOW that it's causing the price of the elements of the hobby you love to be much higher than they should be. You DO NOT WANT the 3D version of anything, and yet 3D is crowding out everything. You feel like you are in a real-life version of Invasion of the Eye snatchers. How can these otherwise intelligent people actually LIKE, SUPPORT, and CHEER for 3D???? WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON HERE?" Perhaps it would be inaccurate to interpret this as a wrong-minded tone, but this otherwise intelligent person would find such a comment offensive.
Seriously, your Bose analogy doesn't sway me. Like the word "gimmick," it builds its case from a really shaky premise. Starting a debate with a negatively charged word like gimmick "assumes facts not in evidence." It's an easy thing for 3D critics to latch onto, because its a term people have heard so often that it's taken on its own "truth." You appeal to the part of the audience that believes the cliche, just by using the word. Many of them won't need to hear any other part of your argument, because they're already "on your side." Citing an example (or several) of how 3D has been used as a gimmick doesn't prove anything about 3D in general. It just proves that filmmakers who use 3D as a gimmick are usually lazy. Gimmicks are easy. Creativity is hard. Analogizing my support of 3D with support of Bose is misdirection, since they're very different things. Without intending any disrespect for Bose owners, Bose is a speaker brand that doesn't deliver the kind of sound I want for my home theater. A lot of people feel this way. Equating support for 3D with support for Bose is not so subtle "guilt by association." Again, sorry Bose owners. Honestly, no offense intended, but anti-Bose sentiment is a fairly common way of implying you're a member of an audio elite. In this argument, you're part of the same club that doesn't like 3D - that is, the club that appreciates quality and is RIGHT.
K, enough heaviness from me. But it's not as though this thread shies away from the "heavy" topics and disagreements, is it? I try to stay out of discussions about the minutiae of display calibration. There, I'd come off as REALLY dumb, instead of just opinionated to the point of being unbalanced. (Caps used for emphasis and to prove I'm sincere and right. I really am dumb when it comes to display calibration.)
I use gimmick because it is an accurate description of how I feel about the technology. "A trick or device intended to attract attention, publicity, or business." From my perspective, that definition is just about perfect. If someone else is "already on my side," then you're right, they probably don't need to read the rest of my argument because to them, it's going to sound pretty eerily similar to how they view 3D. That, in and of itself, lends some credibility to our arguments. If you will notice, however, I didn't use the word gimmick until AFTER I had outlined my case. So really, people should be able to judge my reasoning on it's own merit. I think most people around here are intelligent enough to come up with their own opinions without being swayed by a single word used at the end of a long argument.
Also, you may have missed the part where I said that it was fine for some to like 3D. The issue I have is with 3D intruding into my enjoyment of this hobby. It limits my choices and increases its cost. That annoys me.
The Bose analogy was meant mainly to describe the experience of the 3D hater in a forum like this, and with our friends and neighbors. As an aside, luckily, most of my friends and neighbors have turned against 3D, without my influence. They've finally come to discover many of the points that I have mentioned on their own, and now avoid 3D movies. I think this is probably a broad movement among non-AV enthusiasts, so I am very happy about that.
Nothing I've said was meant to suggest 3D lovers are less intelligent. Like you said, maybe our brains work differently. But yes, I want that god-awful (from my perspective) technology to take a backseat again.
PS. I use ALL CAPS to invoke intonation, not superiority. I (most people) do that in real life as well.