Projector Mini-Shootout Thread - Page 283 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #8461 of 10024 Old 05-22-2014, 11:14 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: A beautiful view of a lake
Posts: 8,594
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 832 Post(s)
Liked: 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

Last thing I heard is the consumer side of TI for DLP development all but shutdown. Only the commercial side is still doing much. Maybe there just wasn't enough business to keep it sustainable.

After DLP TV's disappeared, there was not enough market to make it worth wile to TI.

Mike Garrett, AV Science Sales Call Me: 585-671-2968
Email Me: Mike@AVScience.com
Brands we sell: http://avscience.com/brands/ 
Call for B-stock projectors
Stewart, Seymour, SE, SI, Falcon, DNP & more.
RBH, Martin Logan, Triad, Atlantic Tech., MK Sound, BG Radia, SVS & Def Tech, Denon, Marantz & Yamaha .
AV Science Sales 5 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #8462 of 10024 Old 05-22-2014, 11:26 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kris Deering's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Pacific Northwet
Posts: 7,251
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 343 Post(s)
Liked: 404
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

And from a big picture scenario all of this is a bit concerning in my opinion. The younger, growing generation as a whole has very little interest in audio and video enthusiasm as many prefer to watch a movie or show on their 4" cell phone screen. Where are we going to be at in 10 or 20 years? We saw plasma die in favor of cheap, lower performing LED and how large of a market is needed to keep front projection going for years to come?

I think this is trivializing it a bit much. Younger people have never really been the target market for front projection. Even during the front projection boom you never saw them catering to the masses. If anything front projection is FAR FAR FAR more accesible than it ever has been in the past. The younger generation is limited by income. They watch on their iPhones and iPads because they are easy to access and you can use it anywhere. But I don't think they makes them uninterested in big picture playback, I think that is a cost issue. I think disposable income for most people isn't what it used to be. But I also think we're at a time where large flat panel TVs don't cost much so there isn't a lot of allure to front projection. When I was just coming up in this hobby the biggest TV's out there were 65" RPTVs that were HUGE and HEAVY with big price tags. Now you can be 70 and 80" TVs with a better image for considerably less. Front projection has always been difficult, even at the low price points we have today. There is so many variables that people just don't have the patience for, especially when for most people a 65" TV is HUGE. It is easy to get jaded by our massive projections systems, but we are and never will be even remotely the norm. And until the upper middle class and above have a lot more disposably income to put in projection systems, the market is going to stay small. I'm fine with that, but more options typically leads to more innovation to stay competitive.
GoCaboNow likes this.

Senior Video Editor
Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity

Click Here To See My Current Setup
Kris Deering is offline  
post #8463 of 10024 Old 05-22-2014, 11:31 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
stanger89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Marion, IA
Posts: 17,533
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 195 Post(s)
Liked: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

I think this is trivializing it a bit much. Younger people have never really been the target market for front projection. Even during the front projection boom you never saw them catering to the masses. If anything front projection is FAR FAR FAR more accesible than it ever has been in the past. The younger generation is limited by income. They watch on their iPhones and iPads because they are easy to access and you can use it anywhere. But I don't think they makes them uninterested in big picture playback, I think that is a cost issue.

The other side of it is on a portable device, you can watch what you want. If you're still living at home, or have roommates, it's probably easier to watch what you want, on your device, than to compromise or debate what to watch on a larger screen with more people.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
stanger89 is online now  
post #8464 of 10024 Old 05-22-2014, 11:40 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
DavidHir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,581
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 247 Post(s)
Liked: 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

I think this is trivializing it a bit much. Younger people have never really been the target market for front projection. Even during the front projection boom you never saw them catering to the masses. If anything front projection is FAR FAR FAR more accesible than it ever has been in the past. The younger generation is limited by income. They watch on their iPhones and iPads because they are easy to access and you can use it anywhere. But I don't think they makes them uninterested in big picture playback, I think that is a cost issue. I think disposable income for most people isn't what it used to be. But I also think we're at a time where large flat panel TVs don't cost much so there isn't a lot of allure to front projection. When I was just coming up in this hobby the biggest TV's out there were 65" RPTVs that were HUGE and HEAVY with big price tags. Now you can be 70 and 80" TVs with a better image for considerably less. Front projection has always been difficult, even at the low price points we have today. There is so many variables that people just don't have the patience for, especially when for most people a 65" TV is HUGE. It is easy to get jaded by our massive projections systems, but we are and never will be even remotely the norm. And until the upper middle class and above have a lot more disposably income to put in projection systems, the market is going to stay small. I'm fine with that, but more options typically leads to more innovation to stay competitive.

I would agree there is less disposable income for many today, no question. But I also see people who can afford such to have less interest in higher performing audio/video products in general. I mean look at how many people are buying soundbars instead of speakers and a receiver and plasma was vastly superior to anything LED based out there unless you like the sun directly hitting your TV. lol There are also people who would prefer streaming over Blu-ray even if the picture is worse just because streaming is "in". Then you hear about OLED's struggles and companies pulling out. I am just not optimistic about the future of higher quality end audio and video, but hopefully I am wrong. And hopefully the front projection market niche stays strong enough.

DavidHir is online now  
post #8465 of 10024 Old 05-22-2014, 12:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
rwestley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,686
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Liked: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

I would agree there is less disposable income for many today, no question. But I also see people who can afford such to have less interest in higher performing audio/video products in general. I mean look at how many people are buying soundbars instead of speakers and a receiver and plasma was vastly superior to anything LED based out there unless you like the sun directly hitting your TV. lol There are also people who would prefer streaming over Blu-ray even if the picture is worse just because streaming is "in". Then you hear about OLED's struggles and companies pulling out. I am just not optimistic about the future of higher quality end audio and video, but hopefully I am wrong. And hopefully the front projection market niche stays strong enough.

Sadly, I don't think you are wrong. High End will always be a small niche market. My hope is that there will be enough support to bring out new products sooner than later. I had expected more 4K projectors by this time but it just seems that cost of development is too high. I would love to see Texas Inst. come out with a 4K DLP chip but I am not holding my breath at this point.
rwestley is offline  
post #8466 of 10024 Old 05-22-2014, 12:39 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Craig Peer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: In my home theater ( when I'm not rock climbing, cycling or kayaking ) - Sacramento CA area
Posts: 5,639
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 425 Post(s)
Liked: 364
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwestley View Post

Sadly, I don't think you are wrong. High End will always be a small niche market. My hope is that there will be enough support to bring out new products sooner than later. I had expected more 4K projectors by this time but it just seems that cost of development is too high. I would love to see Texas Inst. come out with a 4K DLP chip but I am not holding my breath at this point.

Home theater has always been a small market. Cheap home theater projectors are just re-worked re-purposed business projectors. I doubt that will change anytime soon.

Craig Peer, AV Science Sales. Call me on my direct line - 585-671-2972, 8:30am - 4:30pm PST, Monday - Friday
Email me at craig@avscience.com http://shop.avscience.com/
Yes, we sell Home Theater gear right here at AVS !!
JVC, Sony, Epson, DPI, SIM2, SV Sound, Martin Logan, RBH, and many more!
Craig Peer is offline  
post #8467 of 10024 Old 05-22-2014, 01:19 PM
Advanced Member
 
cardoski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Beyond The Wall.
Posts: 948
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked: 112
No different then the music industry, the majority of sales go to bubble gum pop. It is not until you begin to dig and take interest that you find the gems, or the real thing. I think the majority of people could care less about "good" music or the black levels of a JVC. They may like it when they see it but outside of seeing they do not think about music or projectors. When its time to get a TV they go to best buy and someone tells them what to get.

James Reid:D
cardoski is offline  
post #8468 of 10024 Old 05-22-2014, 02:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
rwestley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,686
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Liked: 70
What scares me is that we may see more of the remaining projector companies exit the business. I wonder if Sony sold enough 4K projectors to make any money.
JVC while make big improvements has had the same design for 5 years or more. Companies like Epson & Benq concentrate on their business projectors. It will be interesting to see if anything new at CEDIA. Would love to see JVC come out with a real 4K projector.
DavidHir and cardoski like this.
rwestley is offline  
post #8469 of 10024 Old 05-22-2014, 02:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Craig Peer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: In my home theater ( when I'm not rock climbing, cycling or kayaking ) - Sacramento CA area
Posts: 5,639
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 425 Post(s)
Liked: 364
Quote:
Would love to see JVC come out with a real 4K projector

It's possible, since they have had a larger venue version for several years now.

Craig Peer, AV Science Sales. Call me on my direct line - 585-671-2972, 8:30am - 4:30pm PST, Monday - Friday
Email me at craig@avscience.com http://shop.avscience.com/
Yes, we sell Home Theater gear right here at AVS !!
JVC, Sony, Epson, DPI, SIM2, SV Sound, Martin Logan, RBH, and many more!
Craig Peer is offline  
post #8470 of 10024 Old 05-22-2014, 05:09 PM
Senior Member
 
rak306's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Syracuse NY
Posts: 223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 25
This is a bit off topic but others have been talking about the da-lite High Power screen in this thread.

I notice that you can't find the High Power screen on the da-lite web site. It does not show up as one of their screen materials. If you look at individual screens (e.g the Model C with CSR), the HP screen material does not show up as an option. If you do a google search - you will find it, but the path on the da-lite web page shows "Screen Surfaces > Front Projection > Hidden > High Power"

So what gives? Is da-lite phasing out this screen material?
rak306 is offline  
post #8471 of 10024 Old 05-22-2014, 05:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Craig Peer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: In my home theater ( when I'm not rock climbing, cycling or kayaking ) - Sacramento CA area
Posts: 5,639
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 425 Post(s)
Liked: 364
Quote:
Originally Posted by rak306 View Post

This is a bit off topic but others have been talking about the da-lite High Power screen in this thread.

I notice that you can't find the High Power screen on the da-lite web site. It does not show up as one of their screen materials. If you look at individual screens (e.g the Model C with CSR), the HP screen material does not show up as an option. If you do a google search - you will find it, but the path on the da-lite web page shows "Screen Surfaces > Front Projection > Hidden > High Power"

So what gives? Is da-lite phasing out this screen material?

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1527313/high-power-screen-material-supply-issues

See post #22.

Craig Peer, AV Science Sales. Call me on my direct line - 585-671-2972, 8:30am - 4:30pm PST, Monday - Friday
Email me at craig@avscience.com http://shop.avscience.com/
Yes, we sell Home Theater gear right here at AVS !!
JVC, Sony, Epson, DPI, SIM2, SV Sound, Martin Logan, RBH, and many more!
Craig Peer is offline  
post #8472 of 10024 Old 05-22-2014, 06:33 PM
Senior Member
 
rak306's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Syracuse NY
Posts: 223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:

Thanks. I was thinking a 120" wide 2.35 aspect, High Contrast High Power screen would be awesome with the Sony 600ES. Then when I looked at the da-lite site - it was not there. Lets hope they can solve their issues soon.
rak306 is offline  
post #8473 of 10024 Old 05-22-2014, 08:35 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
AV Science Sales 5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: A beautiful view of a lake
Posts: 8,594
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 832 Post(s)
Liked: 582
Quote:
Originally Posted by rak306 View Post

Thanks. I was thinking a 120" wide 2.35 aspect, High Contrast High Power screen would be awesome with the Sony 600ES. Then when I looked at the da-lite site - it was not there. Lets hope they can solve their issues soon.

I don't think the High Contrast High Power is coming back, just the High Power.

Mike Garrett, AV Science Sales Call Me: 585-671-2968
Email Me: Mike@AVScience.com
Brands we sell: http://avscience.com/brands/ 
Call for B-stock projectors
Stewart, Seymour, SE, SI, Falcon, DNP & more.
RBH, Martin Logan, Triad, Atlantic Tech., MK Sound, BG Radia, SVS & Def Tech, Denon, Marantz & Yamaha .
AV Science Sales 5 is online now  
post #8474 of 10024 Old 05-22-2014, 08:54 PM
Advanced Member
 
humbland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 997
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 26
We have been considering a new 2:39 scope HP. I guess it will have to wait...
Does anyone know why they changed formulas (away from 2.8)?
I'm guessing it was some sort of cost of production.
humbland is offline  
post #8475 of 10024 Old 05-22-2014, 09:06 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
millerwill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 11,447
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 47
I've had my Dalite HP2.4 now for ~ 3 yrs, having gotten it soon after they came out. It replaced a HP2.8--which I had liked very much, but wanted a larger screen, and the 2.8 had just been discontinued. I got samples of the HP2.4 and the High Contrast version and tried them out on my wall: I didn't like the HC version nearly as much, for it's very cone was VERY small, giving noticeably brightness falloff at the edges from my central seating position.

Unlike a number of others who have reported in the Forum, I actually like the HP2.4 slightly better than my earlier 2.8. I find it to give a somewhat smoother pic, absolutely free of artifacts (to my eyes), and its somewhat wider viewing cone is useful. I attach a plot of the gain vs angle for the 2.4 and 2.8 screens; beyond 15 deg off center the 2.4 has higher gain than the 2.8.

Maybe I was just lucky with my early HP2.4 (or less discriminating a viewer), but I have been extremely pleased with it. And I sit 'up close and personal': ~10.5 feet away, and the 16x9 pic (actually 17x9 with my Sony1000/1100) is 136x72, and the 2.35 pic is 144x72.

Da-LiteHPcomparison.png 31k .png file
Attached Images
File Type: png Da-LiteHPcomparison.png (31.4 KB, 20 views)
millerwill is offline  
post #8476 of 10024 Old 05-22-2014, 09:06 PM
Senior Member
 
rak306's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Syracuse NY
Posts: 223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

I don't think the High Contrast High Power is coming back, just the High Power.

That is a shame. When viewing the Da-lite HP 2.4 and HCHP 2.4 samples side by side, they were nearly the same brightness (angle between viewer and projector ~0 deg.) Yet when the angle was greater than 30 deg, the HCHP was much dimmer than the HP. The HCHP nearly matched the brightness of a 0.6 da-lite HD screen.

This means most of the light is reflected back toward the projector (+/- 15 degrees), and little elsewhere. This really if helpful in preserving contrast for those of us that can't have (WAF) dark ceilings or side walls. Or want to watch (with a Sony 600ES) in ambient light.
rak306 is offline  
post #8477 of 10024 Old 05-22-2014, 09:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Craig Peer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: In my home theater ( when I'm not rock climbing, cycling or kayaking ) - Sacramento CA area
Posts: 5,639
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 425 Post(s)
Liked: 364
Quote:
Originally Posted by rak306 View Post

Thanks. I was thinking a 120" wide 2.35 aspect, High Contrast High Power screen would be awesome with the Sony 600ES. Then when I looked at the da-lite site - it was not there. Lets hope they can solve their issues soon.

Get a StudioTek 130 G3 - that would be an awesome screen with that projector !!

Craig Peer, AV Science Sales. Call me on my direct line - 585-671-2972, 8:30am - 4:30pm PST, Monday - Friday
Email me at craig@avscience.com http://shop.avscience.com/
Yes, we sell Home Theater gear right here at AVS !!
JVC, Sony, Epson, DPI, SIM2, SV Sound, Martin Logan, RBH, and many more!
Craig Peer is offline  
post #8478 of 10024 Old 05-22-2014, 09:35 PM
Senior Member
 
rak306's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Syracuse NY
Posts: 223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post


snip ...

I got samples of the HP2.4 and the High Contrast version and tried them out on my wall: I didn't like the HC version nearly as much, for it's very cone was VERY small, giving noticeably brightness falloff at the edges from my central seating position.
...
.

My room is not a theater, but a family room with a pull down screen. While the room can seat 6, there are really only 2 seats worth watching from. (The good seats are 2 recliners in the back center of the room. The lessor seats are on 2 sofas on the side walls)

The angle from a line from the projector to the screen center, and a line from the screen center back where your head is (in the good seats) - is about 6 deg. (The projector is on a stand just above the recliners).

Of course for some wide seating setups, even with the 2.4 HP, the good viewing angle can be too narrow.
rak306 is offline  
post #8479 of 10024 Old 05-22-2014, 10:49 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
millerwill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 11,447
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by rak306 View Post

My room is not a theater, but a family room with a pull down screen. While the room can seat 6, there are really only 2 seats worth watching from. (The good seats are 2 recliners in the back center of the room. The lessor seats are on 2 sofas on the side walls)

The angle from a line from the projector to the screen center, and a line from the screen center back where your head is (in the good seats) - is about 6 deg. (The projector is on a stand just above the recliners).

Of course for some wide seating setups, even with the 2.4 HP, the good viewing angle can be too narrow.

Sounds like your room and situation is very similar to mine. It's a former master BR, not a specially designed HT (but I have blacked out the ceiling and side walls out about 8 ft from the screen wall, as well as the screen wall itself), and like you, there are two recliners at the central location (with sofas on the sides). The projector is on a stand just above and behind the two central positions.

I never found a plot for the HC version of the HP2.4 like the one I showed above for the regular 2.4 and the 2.8, but the HC version was noticeably dimmer at the left and right side positions (from the sample pieces I had) than was the regular 2.4, as viewed from the central positions. I found the HC version quite unacceptable.
millerwill is offline  
post #8480 of 10024 Old 05-22-2014, 11:40 PM
Advanced Member
 
dougri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 934
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

I never found a plot for the HC version of the HP2.4 like the one I showed above for the regular 2.4 and the 2.8, but the HC version was noticeably dimmer at the left and right side positions (from the sample pieces I had) than was the regular 2.4, as viewed from the central positions. I found the HC version quite unacceptable.

I put this together from data provided to me by da-lite a couple of years ago...

"A wide screen just makes a bad film twice as bad. "
-Samuel Goldwyn

I wonder what he'd think about 3D IMAX?
dougri is offline  
post #8481 of 10024 Old 05-23-2014, 05:36 AM
Senior Member
 
rak306's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Syracuse NY
Posts: 223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 25
The other great property about the retro-reflective HP screen is that roller marks and screen ripples disappear when illuminated by the projector. Here is a pic of my pull down HP screen (Model C with CSR) in ambient light (the 3 overhead lights at the top of the screen). Notice the ripples, and the roller marks about 1 ft from the left hand side.

(Click pic to see larger size).



The second pic has the camera at the projector location with the same lights on. The waves and roller marks are still visible.



This last picture is also taken from the projector location, but is a flash pic with all the room lights off (simulating light from the projector). Notice how the waves and roller marks are completely invisible.

Elix likes this.
rak306 is offline  
post #8482 of 10024 Old 05-23-2014, 05:47 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
stanger89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Marion, IA
Posts: 17,533
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 195 Post(s)
Liked: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

I would agree there is less disposable income for many today, no question. But I also see people who can afford such to have less interest in higher performing audio/video products in general. I mean look at how many people are buying soundbars instead of speakers and a receiver and plasma was vastly superior to anything LED based out there unless you like the sun directly hitting your TV. lol

One the flip side, how many of those people buying soundbars would have simply used the TV speakers before? I'm guessing a good number. You can't just assume every sale of a new "competing" technology is a lost sale of the old. Not everyone can have, or wants to have an AVR/speaker setup in their living room (where most TVs go, not HTs) but soundbars are convenient and a lot better than just the TV's speakers.
Quote:
There are also people who would prefer streaming over Blu-ray even if the picture is worse just because streaming is "in".

But how many of those people who have Netflix would have been buying BDs in the first place?
Quote:
Then you hear about OLED's struggles and companies pulling out.

They've been working on OLED for getting on 20 years now. It seems it's just a much bigger technical challenge than they probably thought. I suspect it has less to do with people not caring about quality than it does it's turning out to be too hard to manufacture at competitive prices. I mean OLED screens are close to 10x the cost of an LCD, maybe only 5x the cost of a top of the line LCD.
Quote:
I am just not optimistic about the future of higher quality end audio and video, but hopefully I am wrong. And hopefully the front projection market niche stays strong enough.

You should go look at the 4K BD thread, the content owners are looking to push the boundaries of quality/performance with the next disc format. And you can always look back to Laserdisc. It was a niche format, but it was big enough to get lots of support. I'd be quite happy in a world of HD streaming (for "disposable" content), plus BD for most things and 4KBD for the special stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwestley View Post

JVC while make big improvements has had the same design for 5 years or more.

They may have kept the same case, but I don't think it's fair to say it's the same design.
Quote:
Companies like Epson & Benq concentrate on their business projectors.

Epson and BenQ and the like have always been business-projector focused, that's nothing new.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
stanger89 is online now  
post #8483 of 10024 Old 05-23-2014, 05:52 AM
Member
 
12GAGE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 134
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Hey Zombie, that is an impressive project. It makes me wish I had kept a couple of Infocus IN83 I had for the DC4 chips.
12GAGE is offline  
post #8484 of 10024 Old 05-23-2014, 08:55 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Deja Vu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: great white north
Posts: 4,585
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 230 Post(s)
Liked: 194
For 3D lovers only:

Finally, at least one DLP projector manufacturer has responded to our criticisms on this forum (in this thread) about the lack of an RF or IR option for 3D glasses. Here's a review of the sub $1,000 Infocus projector -- hopefully Benq and others will get the message.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/infocus_in8606hd_projector_review.htm
Deja Vu is online now  
post #8485 of 10024 Old 05-23-2014, 09:45 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
millerwill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 11,447
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougri View Post

I put this together from data provided to me by da-lite a couple of years ago...

Very good--thanks for posting this comparison!
millerwill is offline  
post #8486 of 10024 Old 05-24-2014, 12:46 AM
Senior Member
 
mishari84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 395
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

For 3D lovers only:

Finally, at least one DLP projector manufacturer has responded to our criticisms on this forum (in this thread) about the lack of an RF or IR option for 3D glasses. Here's a review of the sub $1,000 Infocus projector -- hopefully Benq and others will get the message.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/infocus_in8606hd_projector_review.htm

I am interested in your opinion on fair comparison between RF 3D vs DLP 3D. Can you buy 3DTV corp blue glasses (Optoma ZD302) and make this comparison? all people said the difference is non-existant. From my experience those glasses are at least in a different league than all others
mishari84 is offline  
post #8487 of 10024 Old 05-24-2014, 03:17 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
zombie10k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,813
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 410 Post(s)
Liked: 418
i've tested many different DLP link glasses, some of the best were the Optoma ZD201's. The problem itself though is the red or white flash. it hurts contrast and the best glasses can't stop this from happening.

if a 3D projector has the capability for both technologies (IR/RF or DLP Link) the IR/RF is going to perform better because it's not tweaking the black floor. Some glasses do an excellent job of masking the flash but it doesn't change the above info.

imo, all 3D DLP's should have a non-DLP link option. having a 3 pin VESA port opens the possibilities of using a kit like the Optoma RF. DLP's in general are already struggling with contrast.

same projector, DLP Link vs. IR, pre-glasses. it's easy to see how the white flash is affecting the contrast. The DLP link glasses will appear to block it well but at the end of the day, the IR glasses looked better when compared with a direct A/B of both technologies.

nvidia-dlp-5.jpg

nvidia-dlp-1.jpg
zombie10k is online now  
post #8488 of 10024 Old 05-24-2014, 03:39 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Elix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Dungeon, Pillar of Eyes
Posts: 1,278
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Wasn't this a BenQ W7000 vs. Sharp XV-Z30000 comparison?
Elix is offline  
post #8489 of 10024 Old 05-24-2014, 06:31 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Deja Vu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: great white north
Posts: 4,585
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 230 Post(s)
Liked: 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

i've tested many different DLP link glasses, some of the best were the Optoma ZD201's. The problem itself though is the red or white flash. it hurts contrast and the best glasses can't stop this from happening.

if a 3D projector has the capability for both technologies (IR/RF or DLP Link) the IR/RF is going to perform better because it's not tweaking the black floor. Some glasses do an excellent job of masking the flash but it doesn't change the above info.

imo, all 3D DLP's should have a non-DLP link option. having a 3 pin VESA port opens the possibilities of using a kit like the Optoma RF. DLP's in general are already struggling with contrast.

same projector, DLP Link vs. IR, pre-glasses. it's easy to see how the white flash is affecting the contrast. The DLP link glasses will appear to block it well but at the end of the day, the IR glasses looked better when compared with a direct A/B of both technologies.

nvidia-dlp-5.jpg

nvidia-dlp-1.jpg

I saw exactly this a few years ago with my Acer 720p 3D projector using DLP-link glasses vs. my Nvidia IR glasses. The DLP-link glasses ameliorated the loss somewhat, but any loss, especially the loss I was seeing, was unacceptable to me. Also, my Panasonic PT-RZ470 allows the user to switch on the fly from the DLP-link setting to the 3D VESA setting (RF or IR - I wouldn't have purchased it unless it allowed RF and IR glasses) and the difference in contrast is in-your-face -- this really is a night and day difference and I'm really surprised that this isn't a generally accepted fact on this forum. 3D in my opinion allows DLP to hold its own when it comes to black level and DLP-link kills that. I would avoid DLP-link glasses at all costs, which may mean purchasing an alternative 3D DLP projector that at least offers both options. It seems Infocus got the message and I say hats off to it. There may be DLP-link glasses that completely correct for this contrast loss but I'm not aware which glasses, if any are 100% effective. I'm somewhat disheartened that it is taking this long to get the message out there -- I think Zombie has posted the above comparison at least three or four times on this forum. Maybe most really don't care much for 3D -- sigh. On another note I've been watching a ton of native 3D lately and for the moment I'm in 3D heaven. I'm on the verge of purchasing the Black Magic Teranex 3D processor for 2D to 3D conversion having found a solution to an issue that was holding me back. Also, I have found a retailer who will allow me a 30 day trial period (I need to hedge my bets). biggrin.gif
Deja Vu is online now  
post #8490 of 10024 Old 05-24-2014, 07:02 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Deja Vu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: great white north
Posts: 4,585
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 230 Post(s)
Liked: 194
I just wanted to add that I am using the JVC RF emitter with inexpensive Samsung RF glasses with the RZ470 and this combo works amazingly well. There are solutions out there but it may take a little digging and time to find them.
Deja Vu is online now  
Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

Tags
Benq W7000 Home Projection System , Jvc Dla Rs55 Bundle , Jvc Dla Rs45 Home Theater Projector 1080p Hdmi , Epson V11h502020 Powerlite Home Cinema 3020e 2d And 3d 1080p Wireless Home Theater Projector , Sony Vpl Hw50es 3d Projector , Epson 5010 Powerlite Home Cinema 3d Front Projector , Epson Powerlite Home Cinema 3010 2d And 3d Projector V11h421020 , Panasonic Ptae8000u Hd Projector , Mitsubishi Hc7900dw Home Theater 3d Projector , Mitsubishi Hc8000dbl Dlp 3d Home Theater Projector With Spare Lamp 1300 Ansi 12 6 Lbs , Darbeevision Darblet Hdmi Video Processor , Epson 5020ub Powerlite Home Cinema 3d Front Projector
Gear in this thread - V11h421020 by PriceGrabber.com



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off