Projector Mini-Shootout Thread - Page 343 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #10261 of 10284 Old Yesterday, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
good deal, I think I have it! I created a fresh 3D BD ISO from the L/R patterns. I found a few others I might include.

this is going to strike fear into any projector that isn't a DLP..
Cool.

One reason I like my "full" torture test disc is that it's revealing of nearly invisible ghosting that's sometimes masked by patterns. It has a couple of shots with one eye completely black, and a high contrast image in the other. If you close one eye, it's shockingly easy to see ghosting caused by the display and/or glasses. In a totally black field, there's simply no place for a ghost to hide. It's not a "fair" test of a 3D display, because you'd never see anything like it in a commercial 3D disc. It's completely unforgiving and perfect for illustrating what DLP can do (and what other technologies can't). The 3D iso is only 264 MB.

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post #10262 of 10284 Old Yesterday, 08:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Joseph - quick question. Can vegas output in full frame packed? I see the SBS (half and full) and also the line alternate, blend and difference. Which one did you create the original ISO?

I was playing around with it last night and line alternate looked good but I thought I read it was missing resolution, either horizontal or vertical?

I'm going to roll the L/R for 3+ mins so they don't have to pause for the tests.
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post #10263 of 10284 Old Yesterday, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
Joseph - quick question. Can vegas output in full frame packed? I see the SBS (half and full) and also the line alternate, blend and difference. Which one did you create the original ISO?

I was playing around with it last night and line alternate looked good but I thought I read it was missing resolution, either horizontal or vertical?

I'm going to roll the L/R for 3+ mins so they don't have to pause for the tests.
Yes, you can output as full frame packed. It's under "Tools" in the Vegas menu. Not home right now. More details later.
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post #10264 of 10284 Old Yesterday, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, you can output as full frame packed. It's under "Tools" in the Vegas menu. Not home right now. More details later.
great, thanks for your help. playing around with 3D in Vegas is going to be dangerous to my wallet. I am immediately envisioning strapping this to my DJI F450:

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post #10265 of 10284 Old Yesterday, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
some addition info on the LG PF1500 1080P pico LED projector

http://translate.google.com/translat...-726&sandbox=1

it looks like Cine4home has seen a pre-production model, I'd like to hear what he thinks about it.

It has some interesting wireless features built in like Miracast which I use all the time with my Android and Win 8.1 Surface to broadcast photos and video to my TV's / Projectors. It also claims 3D support, 2D -> 3D + CFI.

this is a good shot showing the size:



I thought that was a TV next to it, it's an Epson 5030! wow this is pretty small.

Saw this projector at CES (there's a thread for it in the <3000 forum where I posted my pics of it in action). It's $999, rather nice and would make a fine "helper" projector for when you don't want to use up you bulb on your main projector.

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post #10266 of 10284 Old Yesterday, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
some addition info on the LG PF1500 1080P pico LED projector

http://translate.google.com/translat...-726&sandbox=1

it looks like Cine4home has seen a pre-production model, I'd like to hear what he thinks about it.

It has some interesting wireless features built in like Miracast which I use all the time with my Android and Win 8.1 Surface to broadcast photos and video to my TV's / Projectors. It also claims 3D support, 2D -> 3D + CFI.

this is a good shot showing the size:



I thought that was a TV next to it, it's an Epson 5030! wow this is pretty small.

If this thing is any good it could ruin sales for all other projector manufacturers. What do you bet it comes in at around 600 calibrated lumens -- not saying that wouldn't be pretty damn good but it won't cut it for 3D. If it's 800 to 900 calibrated lumens then there should be some other projectors out there shaking in their boots.
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post #10267 of 10284 Old Yesterday, 08:50 AM
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Here's a post I posted over on the LS10000 thread that may help explain why the LS10000 costs what it does:

According to Ideal AV (dealer) on the AVForum the LS10000 is like the JVC X900 -- only hand selected premium parts go into the LS10000. JVC justifies the extra cost of the X900 for this very reason. If true then I can understand why the LS10000 costs so much more than the X500 just as the X900 does. If you want premium you have to pay for it. Most here won't be interested in this projector because we're looking for a bargain and bargain and premium for the most part are self-exclusive. Here's the quote:

"These units are not going to be mass produced as far as I`m told so only a small no. of dealers have been designated to show them, each one is hand built choosing premium parts as I understand, if it makes a difference we won`t know as they won`t build one using non premium parts to compare [emphasis added]." (What a great example of a run-on sentence. )

See post 274.

https://www.avforums.com/threads/eps...903266/page-10
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post #10268 of 10284 Old Yesterday, 08:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Robert Clark View Post
Saw this projector at CES (there's a thread for it in the <3000 forum where I posted my pics of it in action). It's $999, rather nice and would make a fine "helper" projector for when you don't want to use up you bulb on your main projector.
Robert, I saw your post with photos from CES, thanks for sharing them in that thread. Do you have a general opinion of it's brightness when you saw it in person?

DV- the current pico 1080P LG's are claiming 1000 but seem to end up in the 600 range from what i've read. If this newer panel tech TI released allows for greater brightness, hopefully it shows up in this model. They claim 1400 so 800+ would be a blast in something so small.

I have my QUMI on a tripod and use a makeshift screen to watch TV at night before I crash. I have a thing for small LED projectors, there is no doubt I'm getting this as soon as it's released to check it out.
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post #10269 of 10284 Old Yesterday, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
Robert, I saw your post with photos from CES, thanks for sharing them in that thread. Do you have a general opinion of it's brightness when you saw it in person?

DV- the current pico 1080P LG's are claiming 1000 but seem to end up in the 600 range from what i've read. If this newer panel tech TI released allows for greater brightness, hopefully it shows up in this model. They claim 1400 so 800+ would be a blast in something so small.

I have my QUMI on a tripod and use a makeshift screen to watch TV at night before I crash. I have a thing for small LED projectors, there is no doubt I'm getting this as soon as it's released to check it out.
I own an LG PA70 I use for my helper projector (my main is a 5030). I also share a fascination with small LED projectors (and headsets like the Sony HMZ T3). Hard to tell from their room which was dimly lit but it is surely brighter than my PA70. They were throwing about a 120" image onto a painted wall and it looked plenty bright for a dark room.
Here's a few more bad pics to give an idea of brightness...
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post #10270 of 10284 Old Yesterday, 09:09 AM
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Zombie -- just saw your link. 1400 lumens coming in at 1000 calibrated lumens would be pretty spectacular. The 3D on this thing could be pretty amazing especially with a 2.8 gain HP screen.

The whole idea is to get our hopes up about this projector and then have the reviewers dash them in four or five months.

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post #10271 of 10284 Old Yesterday, 09:48 AM
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DJ - i've seen the same, moving these 'universal' glasses from 1 machine to another. There's definitely some timing differences which can affect the results.

unless it's the Sharp 30K, then the x-talk is just perfect regardless of what glasses i'm using.

Z10K


Ahh, you just say that, because I didnt get that one on e-bay


( and have to admit,I would probely not have payed over 2000 dollars for it used + shiping anyway - just to test / and see 3D at it best , because Im still not convict, that I will be sweept away or can live with the glasses on my head for 2- 4 hours )


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post #10272 of 10284 Old Yesterday, 10:21 AM
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great, thanks for your help. playing around with 3D in Vegas is going to be dangerous to my wallet. I am immediately envisioning strapping this to my DJI F450:

Yeah, that's the biggest remaining obstacle to my being very happy with the long form video I'm working on. I'm using temporary Google Earth stills as section intro shots, but what I really want is to replace them with original drone footage. I'm thinking about using conversion software on mono GoPro drone shots, since the 3D effect with a GoPro dual camera rig like the one you show might not be good enough. In my experience, conversion software works best with aerial shots. Getting good 3D separation at that height can be tough. The interaxial distance usually isn't quite good enough. The lenses need to be a bit further apart.

If you take the 3D plunge, Vegas is really all you'll need with the GoPro rig. I might end up seeing a lot more of you, over in AVS's 3D section (3D Central>3D Source Components). That's where AVS 3D shooters and editors post.

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post #10273 of 10284 Old Yesterday, 03:12 PM
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Joseph - quick question. Can vegas output in full frame packed? I see the SBS (half and full) and also the line alternate, blend and difference. Which one did you create the original ISO?

I was playing around with it last night and line alternate looked good but I thought I read it was missing resolution, either horizontal or vertical?

I'm going to roll the L/R for 3+ mins so they don't have to pause for the tests.
Here's a little more detail that may help, if you haven't gotten this far yet:

In the "File>Properties..." dialog of Vegas you set the stereoscopic mode of the project, but the SBS, line alternate, etc., designations only determine how you view it while you're editing. You set the output of the project as standard Blu-ray 3D under "Tools>Burn Disc>Blu-ray Disc..." In that dialog, you set it to burn an iso file as "Sony AVC/MVC-MVC 1920x1080-24p, 25 Mbps video stream." That gives you the highest quality FullHD, frame packed 3D quality.

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post #10274 of 10284 Old Yesterday, 03:51 PM - Thread Starter
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That is exactly what I needed to know,thanks very much! I took the original 3840x1080 L/R PNG and cut it into 2 different 1920x1080 PNG files. On the timeline - L on top, R on the bottom, highlighted both and used the 'pair as Stereoscopic 3D subclip', then burned the BD ISO. It looks great...(on a DLP... )

it's very cool this program can handle full frame packed 1080P 3D. I believe we talked about this a while back, is there a way to create a 3D demo disk using various clips? It won't import the full ISO nor the MKV file I typically make which has the full MVC 3D stream.
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post #10275 of 10284 Old Yesterday, 06:06 PM
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Yeah, that's the biggest remaining obstacle to my being very happy with the long form video I'm working on. I'm using temporary Google Earth stills as section intro shots, but what I really want is to replace them with original drone footage. I'm thinking about using conversion software on mono GoPro drone shots, since the 3D effect with a GoPro dual camera rig like the one you show might not be good enough. In my experience, conversion software works best with aerial shots. Getting good 3D separation at that height can be tough. The interaxial distance usually isn't quite good enough. The lenses need to be a bit further apart.

If you take the 3D plunge, Vegas is really all you'll need with the GoPro rig. I might end up seeing a lot more of you, over in AVS's 3D section (3D Central>3D Source Components). That's where AVS 3D shooters and editors post.
Joe, I've been really surprised at the 3D depth from the Gopro Dual. I bought it with very low expectations and fully expected to have to do a lot of stereoscopic adjustment with Edius. The IA of the Dual is the same as our JVC-TD1s. Due to the wider FOV- by the way, I always use medium FOV setting and not widest- there is less compression of the image planes and hence, MUCH BETTER depth then we get from our TD1s. And when I say much better, I'm not kidding. In fact, I think the depth is better then the TD1 using the Cyclopital Stereo Base Extender. I also bought some inexpensive software from Prodad called DeFishr which very nicely corrects any barrel distortion, though in the medium FOV mode, it's not bad anyway.

My- mostly 3D- YouTube Channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Tarnway/videos?view=0

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post #10276 of 10284 Old Yesterday, 06:58 PM
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Joe, I've been really surprised at the 3D depth from the Gopro Dual. I bought it with very low expectations and fully expected to have to do a lot of stereoscopic adjustment with Edius. The IA of the Dual is the same as our JVC-TD1s. Due to the wider FOV- by the way, I always use medium FOV setting and not wide- there is less compression of the image planes and hence, MUCH BETTER depth then we get from our TD1s. And when I say much better, I'm not kidding. In fact, I think the depth is better then the TD1 using the Cyclopital Stereo Base Extender. I also bought some inexpensive software from Prodad called DeFishr which very nicely corrects any barrel distortion, though in the medium FOV mode, it's not bad anyway.
Thanks, Barry. That's good information, and from someone who uses dual GoPro's. Now I want to fly such a rig over the Missouri Botanical Garden to see what kind of footage I could get.

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post #10277 of 10284 Old Yesterday, 07:22 PM
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That is exactly what I needed to know,thanks very much! I took the original 3840x1080 L/R PNG and cut it into 2 different 1920x1080 PNG files. On the timeline - L on top, R on the bottom, highlighted both and used the 'pair as Stereoscopic 3D subclip', then burned the BD ISO. It looks great...(on a DLP... )

it's very cool this program can handle full frame packed 1080P 3D. I believe we talked about this a while back, is there a way to create a 3D demo disk using various clips? It won't import the full ISO nor the MKV file I typically make which has the full MVC 3D stream.
It's possible to split MVC video into left/right pairs (accessible via the "SSIF" folder, which is in the "Stream" folder of the Blu-ray 3D disc) with MVC to AVI. You can then pair L/R in Vegas as you just did. The problem is the audio. Remuxing HD audio isn't something I've done - just stereo. As demo material, you're missing a lot without HD surround. Someone has probably done it, but I haven't. I haven't used MVC to AVI on commercial discs (but it can be done). A few years back, it was the only program I had that would split the MVC files from my JVC camcorder, and thus the only way I had to edit 3D in Vegas. When Edius 6.5 was released, it allowed me to edit my JVC 3D files natively. I've used it as my main non-linear editor ever since. I only use Vegas to finish the Blu-ray 3D disc. Edius won't do that. With GoPro files, you won't have that problem.

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post #10278 of 10284 Old Today, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Joe, I've been really surprised at the 3D depth from the Gopro Dual. I bought it with very low expectations and fully expected to have to do a lot of stereoscopic adjustment with Edius. The IA of the Dual is the same as our JVC-TD1s. Due to the wider FOV- by the way, I always use medium FOV setting and not wide- there is less compression of the image planes and hence, MUCH BETTER depth then we get from our TD1s. And when I say much better, I'm not kidding. In fact, I think the depth is better then the TD1 using the Cyclopital Stereo Base Extender. I also bought some inexpensive software from Prodad called DeFishr which very nicely corrects any barrel distortion, though in the medium FOV mode, it's not bad anyway.
Barry, I watched this last night on my Sharp 30K 3D DLP and it looked amazing! this was better than many of the commercial underwater 3D BD's i've seen. It really feels like i'm there, just remarkable. The Moray Eels is something from a horror movie.. scary looking


Can you please tell me about the setup? was this the GoPro dual with the Hero 3+? is there any chance you have this in full frame packed vs SBS? the SBS was some of the best i've seen and would like to see the full capabilities of that footage.
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I told Barry the same thing, Jason, when I saw this video. It's better than a lot of commercially available 3D underwater videos. This was shot with a JVC TD1, not the GoPro rig. Barry and I are big fans of this little camcorder. I'm sure Barry will chime in with more details.

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post #10280 of 10284 Old Today, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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thanks for the info, very impressive! I'd like to see some of the footage from dual gopro setup since it should be capable of full frame packed. I missed a bit of the resolution on the large 142" using SBS.

have you considered using the quad's for some of your footage? I've been using a GoPro 4 recording in 4K for some amazing aerial footage lately. it looks great in native res on the VW1100.



I just set up an FPV camera with wireless to the goggles you see in the photo. what's cool is that it can handle SBS 3D and there is an FPV camera that transmits the 3D in real time to the glasses.

I'm going to give this a try soon.

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All standard Blu-ray 3D players support 1080p/24 and 720p/60 (frame packed). If you shoot at a different resolution and/or frame rate, software has to convert it for playback in one of those players. From what I've read, the UHD Blu-ray spec will support 1080p 3D, but not 4K 3D. I don't know if that's set in stone. I also don't know what software players might be able to do with UHD 3D from a PC at different resolutions/frame rates, or which displays could handle them. Using dual GoPro's, you'd probably need to shoot in 1080/24p for maximum compatibility with the existing Blu-ray 3D standard. Barry may have more info on that.

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Barry, I watched this last night on my Sharp 30K 3D DLP and it looked amazing! this was better than many of the commercial underwater 3D BD's i've seen. It really feels like i'm there, just remarkable. The Moray Eels is something from a horror movie.. scary looking

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Vxky54eeq8

Can you please tell me about the setup? was this the GoPro dual with the Hero 3+? is there any chance you have this in full frame packed vs SBS? the SBS was some of the best i've seen and would like to see the full capabilities of that footage.
Thanks for your kind words, much appreciated. As Joe already mentioned, this piece was shot entirely with the JVC-TD1 in a housing from Equinox Housings. I used a red filter, also from Equinox. Without the filter, after about 15' you loose all your reds. All filters are not created equal and I think Equinox makes some of the best.

I edited this entirely in Power Director and the original renders are saved in MVC at 1080i and 720 60p. When I upload to Youtube in SBS half frame, I believe in using bitrates of at least 25mbps. I've been having this discussion with Don Landis over on the 3D source component thead just yesterday who uses bit rates at 8-10mbps. Don, does some real nice work, but my preference is for the highest bitrate I can get away with.

I just got my Gopro Dual setup a few months ago and hoped to use it this Winter for some helmet cam ski sequences. I've only got a few clips so far since we've been in a terrible drought and the skiing hasn't been too swift. Still hoping for February or March. When I first bought it, I had very low expectations regarding its 3D abilities. Boy was I surprised!!! So surprised in fact that I bought 2 more +3 Blacks and another Dual housing. I've made plans for an 8 day dive trip in the Bahamas this summer where my goal is to get lots more shipwreck content and sharks. I really want to put together a good 3D shark video. I've mounted both Gopro Duals on the JVC-TD1 housing- my avatar picture- and plan to use one in 2.7K 30fps. medium FOV Protunes mode, and the other at 1080 60p narrow FOV also in Protunes mode which has a bitrate of 45mbps. The JVC when underwater- which narrows LENS FOV- is probably the 35mm equivalent of over 50 mm so it will be real nice to be able to have the almost unlimited FOV and frame rate versatility that this setup should provide.

Going forward, most of my editing will be with Edius ( thanks Joe for that encouragement) with some sequences done with Cyberlink Color Director/ Power Director in combination.

My- mostly 3D- YouTube Channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Tarnway/videos?view=0

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post #10283 of 10284 Old Today, 02:24 PM
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If this thing is any good it could ruin sales for all other projector manufacturers. What do you bet it comes in at around 600 calibrated lumens -- not saying that wouldn't be pretty damn good but it won't cut it for 3D. If it's 800 to 900 calibrated lumens then there should be some other projectors out there shaking in their boots.
My guess is that is wishful thinking. I doubt the lens quality is very good. Once reviews are available, we will know for sure.

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My guess is that is wishful thinking. I doubt the lens quality is very good. Once reviews are available, we will know for sure.
My comments were made in jest. All of these little projectors look good on paper and inevitably end up being a bit of a disappointment -- at least for HT use.
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