Projector Mini-Shootout Thread - Page 344 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #10291 of 10309 Old 01-26-2015, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post
And that ghosting is at 24p! It seems no better than what I experienced with my RS40/45. And just try 3D at 60i - it was unwatchable on my JVC projectors. That's especially ironic because my first 3D camcorder was a JVC TD1. It's a great 60i 3D camcorder, but its video looked miserable on the RS40 and even worse on the RS45 (despite JVC's claims that it had improved 3D on the RS45 - I'm ticked to this day by that ludicrous claim ). JVC's D-ILA chips just don't do justice to 3D. OTOH, DLP's mediocre contrast robs 3D of much of its impact, despite the fact that it's ghost free. Which brings me back to how great 3D looks on an OLED. Perfect black level, infinite contrast, extremely good ghosting performance - OhMyDearGod!!! I'm saving up my ducats for the biggest OLED screen as I can afford.
LG has a 77" OLED -- I'll bet the 3D on that T.V. looks amazing. My kids won't let me demo one because they're afraid I'll spend their inheritance on one.
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post #10292 of 10309 Old 01-26-2015, 02:30 PM - Thread Starter
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DV - the same review with the L/R patterns also said the JVC native contrast is 14.5k:1 which isn't accurate. but because it's published, many readers will think it's gospel.

will it be any different if PR states that the LS 10K is as good or better than the VW1100? A lot of the review info in general can be subjective, especially now that we are dealing with reality creation, super resolution, e-shift, etc. all sharpening techniques which could easily be overcooked for 1 person but look 'tack sharp' to another.

JC, I assure you the current JVC's are better than the RS40/45 series. At least with framed packed BD. SBS, all bets are off. At this point and time with the current 3D projectors, we still have 2 camps. DLP and Non-DLP. DLP = flawless x-talk, no flicker, so-so contrast. The non-DLP's have varying degrees of x-talk issues with tough content, varying degrees of flicker (Epson > Sony > JVC). They do beat up on the DLP's with overall contrast and low APL performance. We really have no 1 perfect projector solution just yet in this price category. The Epson 10000 is not likely going to be that solution. I expect the same degree of x-talk as we see on the Epson LCD's. Let's see the patterns, I will provide them to PC and Ron.

The lesson here for prospective buyers is to do your homework. Find out which reviewers (and end users) care about the features you're interesting in hearing about. 3D was never a strong focus in most reviews which is one of the reasons I started these threads a few years ago.
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post #10293 of 10309 Old 01-26-2015, 06:07 PM
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Up until recently, I really had no desire/need for 3D. Thought it may very well be a passing fad. We had a Mitsubishi HC4000 in our HT, and it had no 3D capability. I bought a JVC X500R just a year ago, and although it's 3D capable I didn't even give that a thought when I researched/bought it. We didn't have a 3D capable BR player in the HT anyway. I had another 3D capable TV in the house (LG Plasma) as well as a 3D LG BR player. Bought some closeout shutter glasses and watched Cars 2 3D for the first time at home. It was fun! Not that I want to watch 3D all the time-Our 2D presentation in our dedicated HT is quite satisfactory. I bought an Oppo 103D a few months ago for the HT, and then some of the Xpand Mits glasses on closeout. The 3D on my combo is decent. My wife who doesn't like 3D even enjoyed Frozen 3D and wants to know what other 3D we have and which one we're going to watch next. Not all that bright on the JVC mind you, but for mainly animated movies it's fine for the 5-10% of the time we'll use it. My point is, I really wasn't a 3D proponent, (Not a total basher like some people here) but after experiencing it first hand I have a whole different outlook and prediction for 3D's future.
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post #10294 of 10309 Old 01-26-2015, 06:37 PM
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I agree. It's fun on occasion. This is why I deem the JVC X500 sufficient for my needs with 3D. I personally don't watch much 3D and when I do I find the JVCs presentation more than satisfactory. Obviously with others they want better performance and that's fine as long as they're willing to pay for it. A good DLP with excellent contrast and brightness is expensive. These are the units from Sim2 and Runco. While Zombie and others love the Sharp 30k I suspect they want something even brighter and that's when things start to get expensive.
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post #10295 of 10309 Old 01-26-2015, 08:29 PM
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I've found the 3D on my JVC RS57 to be good to very good, in terms of how I experience it. I see some crosstalk sometimes, but a lot of the times I'm not aware of it. I've had some truly amazing 3D viewing. Godzilla blew my mind in 3D on my big screen. The 3D effect really enhanced the sensation of looking way up at real giant monsters.
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post #10296 of 10309 Old 01-26-2015, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post
LG has a 77" OLED -- I'll bet the 3D on that T.V. looks amazing. My kids won't let me demo one because they're afraid I'll spend their inheritance on one.
Honestly, I'm still so enamored of OLED that I think I'd replace my 110" screen in the main home theater with that 77" OLED. I'm told that will change, but after more than two months with the OLED in my bedroom system, I'm not inclined to believe it. OLED is abso-friggin-lutely awesome! Infinite contrast does even more to enhance the 3D experience than I would have believed possible. Also, as much as I've been a proponent of "bigger is better" for 2D and 3D, 3D depth is enhanced by the smaller 55" screen. At my viewing distance in the bedroom, it seems just about perfect for getting maximum "depth effect" with most 3D films. As one moves closer, or the screen size increases, 3D depth collapses. The large size makes it more immersive, but the smaller screen (surrounded by total darkness) and contrast pull me into the 3D experience thoroughly. But it's not just 3D that benefits; 2D looks so much better, too. Infinite contrast makes everything sparkle with new life.

Jason,

I trust your judgement on how much better the newer JVCs are with 3D. When my RS40/45 did 3D well (usually during dark scenes, when JVCs always seem to excel), I maintained that it was the best 3D I'd ever seen. That was because of the great contrast, and it was a glimpse of what OLED now does even better. And OLED doesn't suffer from the horrible dark ghosting issues I experienced with my JVCs. It isn't perfect, but if the reports from CES are accurate, they've made strides this year to improve on the already very good ghosting performance.

OK, I'll stop now. But I'm still looking forward to the day when that 77" OLED (or even bigger) is at a saner price. Hopefully, that's no more than a couple of years away.

Joe Clark

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post #10297 of 10309 Old Yesterday, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post
Honestly, I'm still so enamored of OLED that I think I'd replace my 110" screen in the main home theater with that 77" OLED. I'm told that will change, but after more than two months with the OLED in my bedroom system, I'm not inclined to believe it. OLED is abso-friggin-lutely awesome! Infinite contrast does even more to enhance the 3D experience than I would have believed possible. Also, as much as I've been a proponent of "bigger is better" for 2D and 3D, 3D depth is enhanced by the smaller 55" screen. At my viewing distance in the bedroom, it seems just about perfect for getting maximum "depth effect" with most 3D films. As one moves closer, or the screen size increases, 3D depth collapses. The large size makes it more immersive, but the smaller screen (surrounded by total darkness) and contrast pull me into the 3D experience thoroughly. But it's not just 3D that benefits; 2D looks so much better, too. Infinite contrast makes everything sparkle with new life.

Jason,

I trust your judgement on how much better the newer JVCs are with 3D. When my RS40/45 did 3D well (usually during dark scenes, when JVCs always seem to excel), I maintained that it was the best 3D I'd ever seen. That was because of the great contrast, and it was a glimpse of what OLED now does even better. And OLED doesn't suffer from the horrible dark ghosting issues I experienced with my JVCs. It isn't perfect, but if the reports from CES are accurate, they've made strides this year to improve on the already very good ghosting performance.

OK, I'll stop now. But I'm still looking forward to the day when that 77" OLED (or even bigger) is at a saner price. Hopefully, that's no more than a couple of years away.
Wow! Now that's some endorsement for OLED! I want one.

As I've said in the past -- if the JVC projectors could handle ghosting like the DLPs do I'd have one. What a bind -- I love 3D but only DLP can handle it without ghosting but DLP doesn't have great contrast. JVC and Epson (now) have the contrast but can't handle ghosting (I'm assuming the LS10000 can't handle ghosting like a DLP but I really need to see a L/R 3D test result from the LS10000 to confirm). 3D lovers seem cursed. Ignorance really is bliss -- thanks to you guys I know too much.
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post #10298 of 10309 Old Yesterday, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post
Honestly, I'm still so enamored of OLED that I think I'd replace my 110" screen in the main home theater with that 77" OLED. I'm told that will change, but after more than two months with the OLED in my bedroom system, I'm not inclined to believe it. OLED is abso-friggin-lutely awesome! Infinite contrast does even more to enhance the 3D experience than I would have believed possible. Also, as much as I've been a proponent of "bigger is better" for 2D and 3D, 3D depth is enhanced by the smaller 55" screen. At my viewing distance in the bedroom, it seems just about perfect for getting maximum "depth effect" with most 3D films. As one moves closer, or the screen size increases, 3D depth collapses. The large size makes it more immersive, but the smaller screen (surrounded by total darkness) and contrast pull me into the 3D experience thoroughly. But it's not just 3D that benefits; 2D looks so much better, too. Infinite contrast makes everything sparkle with new life.

Jason,

I trust your judgement on how much better the newer JVCs are with 3D. When my RS40/45 did 3D well (usually during dark scenes, when JVCs always seem to excel), I maintained that it was the best 3D I'd ever seen. That was because of the great contrast, and it was a glimpse of what OLED now does even better. And OLED doesn't suffer from the horrible dark ghosting issues I experienced with my JVCs. It isn't perfect, but if the reports from CES are accurate, they've made strides this year to improve on the already very good ghosting performance.

OK, I'll stop now. But I'm still looking forward to the day when that 77" OLED (or even bigger) is at a saner price. Hopefully, that's no more than a couple of years away.
Yep, as soon as 100"+ 4K or 8K OLEDs are available and reasonably affordable, my projection system will be listed in the Classifieds.

Hell, I'll buy 4 of the biggest OLEDs available in a few years and stack'em if I have to.

Respectfully,
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post #10299 of 10309 Old Yesterday, 10:06 PM - Thread Starter
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+1, I'm a fan of all of my gear that has an OLED screen. S4 phone, Gear 2 watch and the Sony HMZ-T1 goggles. The contrast is remarkable in comparison to the LCD counterparts. black is finally... black! no tricks, it's just pitch black when the image calls for it.

Why are we not seeing OLED PC monitors? I would love to have a 24-28" OLED monitor.
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post #10300 of 10309 Old Yesterday, 10:10 PM
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+1, I'm a fan of all of my gear that has an OLED screen. S4 phone, Gear 2 watch and the Sony HMZ-T1 goggles. The contrast is remarkable in comparison to the LCD counterparts. black is finally... black! no tricks, it's just pitch black when the image calls for it.

Why are we not seeing OLED PC monitors? I would love to have a 24-28" OLED monitor.
Good to hear I'm not the only geek here with a Gear 2.
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post #10301 of 10309 Old Yesterday, 10:19 PM
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Good to hear I'm not the only geek here with a Gear 2.
Had to give up my Gear 2 neo when I switched to a non-Galaxy phone but I really miss the OLED screens on both phone and watch...

But I do still have my HMZ t3.

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post #10302 of 10309 Old Yesterday, 10:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Good to hear I'm not the only geek here with a Gear 2.
The Matrix clock face always gets people going in meetings during the day. so many of the apple fans are disappointed once they find out it's not the 'new apple watch'.

This is a great watch and the OLED screen is the star of the show!



edit: robert, did you ever use the 1st Gen Sony glasses to compare against vs 3? I skipped 2 because it seemed too similar in overall size and weight.

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post #10303 of 10309 Old Yesterday, 11:04 PM
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The Matrix clock face always gets people going in meetings during the day. so many of the apple fans are disappointed once they find out it's not the 'new apple watch'.

This is a great watch and the OLED screen is the star of the show!



edit: robert, did you ever use the 1st Gen Sony glasses to compare against vs 3? I skipped 2 because it seemed too similar in overall size and weight.
Very cool! Where do you get the Matrix app?
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post #10304 of 10309 Unread Yesterday, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
The Matrix clock face always gets people going in meetings during the day. so many of the apple fans are disappointed once they find out it's not the 'new apple watch'.

This is a great watch and the OLED screen is the star of the show!



edit: robert, did you ever use the 1st Gen Sony glasses to compare against vs 3? I skipped 2 because it seemed too similar in overall size and weight.

Yes, I've owned all three. The main difference between the three is that Sony got the focus better on each model. The T3 is much easier to get in focus, now if they could only put out a 1080p model. However after using the new Oculus Rift model at CES THAT is the future of entertainment.


Also, as an aside Zombie, I'd like to say thanks for all you've contributed to this forum with this thread, cheers.

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post #10305 of 10309 Unread Today, 05:40 AM
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Yep, as soon as 100"+ 4K or 8K OLEDs are available and reasonably affordable, my projection system will be listed in the Classifieds.
They'll have to be rollable, 2.35:1 and accoustically trasnparent, or they're not going in my HT. I physically couldn't get my screen in or out assembled.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #10306 of 10309 Unread Today, 07:34 AM
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They'll have to be rollable, 2.35:1 and accoustically trasnparent, or they're not going in my HT. I physically couldn't get my screen in or out assembled.
It will come in kit form. They will send you the roll up panel and an awl. I am in the same boat. After going AT, I don't see myself going back to a solid screen.

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AT might be negotiable, but for me scope is not. Only possibility is if they have OLED" wallpaper" and I could just "permanently" mask off the top/bottom and make my own scope setup.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #10308 of 10309 Unread Today, 08:25 AM
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I'm very envious and desirous of OLED's contrast and picture quality.

However, in terms of replacing my projection set up I've become very used to, and appreciative of, a viewing system that I can't see a flat screen duplicating any time soon, if ever (i.e. variable size system with 4 way masking, allowing for altering the image size to adjust every source for optimal image quality, and allowing wide variations in immersion - going to image sizes no flat screen is likely to offer in anything like the near future).

One reason I haven't upgraded my old Panasonic plasma is because all my critical viewing is done in the projector room anyway. If I put an OLED in place of the plasma, it wouldn't be for viewing movies since I want the big screen experience. All I'd end up with is a superior reference for contrast and black levels vs my projection, and it's probably best I don't have that.
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post #10309 of 10309 Unread Today, 09:48 AM
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I'm very envious and desirous of OLED's contrast and picture quality.

However, in terms of replacing my projection set up I've become very used to, and appreciative of, a viewing system that I can't see a flat screen duplicating any time soon, if ever (i.e. variable size system with 4 way masking, allowing for altering the image size to adjust every source for optimal image quality, and allowing wide variations in immersion - going to image sizes no flat screen is likely to offer in anything like the near future).

One reason I haven't upgraded my old Panasonic plasma is because all my critical viewing is done in the projector room anyway. If I put an OLED in place of the plasma, it wouldn't be for viewing movies since I want the big screen experience. All I'd end up with is a superior reference for contrast and black levels vs my projection, and it's probably best I don't have that.

I don't really need " superior reference for contrast and black levels " to watch the evening news - which is more or less all I use our regular flat screen TV for.

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post #10310 of 10309 Unread Today, 10:11 AM
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I don't really need " superior reference for contrast and black levels " to watch the evening news - which is more or less all I use our regular flat screen TV for.
Yes, that's essentially why I can't get excited for flat panels. I only use mine for non-critical stuff like the news, and the occasional TV show.

I certainly don't feel any need for a higher contrast flat panel display due to this minor usage. Thought I'd still be seeing amazing contrast from the OLED even if used for that. Plus, I know I couldn't resist throwing on some Blu-Rays just to see what they look like and it might be too deflating to see the type of contrast that I'm never likely to experience from projection.

But, again, the pluses of projection thus far outweigh the allure of even OLED flat screens. (I also find the current 1080p OLEDs from LG to have too coarse pixel structure. That should get better with their 4K units, but looking through the flat panel forum it seems even with 4K the fill percentage between pixels is particularly large with the LG OLED process, which leaves the possibility of still perceiving pixel structure when you are in an immersive viewing distance from the display. Unlike my JVC which has for all practical purposes no visible pixel structure with E-shift).
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