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post #10351 of 10572 Old 01-30-2015, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
I wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of 8K upscaling in 4-5 years though. They are going to need to something "new" to market and hype. It will probably start in flat panels then move into some projectors.
Native 2K -> Pseudo 4K -> Native 4K -> Pseudo 8K -> Native 8K...

Those incremental steps continually fuel the money machine...and drive us crazy trying to keep up in the process. If everyone had FttH (Fiber-to-the-Home), 8K would be much easier to broadcast and roll out at a much faster rate. We need better infrastructure in place so we can even utilize the full capabilities of 8K, it's only as fast as the weakest link. If it's doable OTA (over-the-air) like DirecTV, or via satellite laser broadcast like Japan NHK has been testing, that would be even better. Granted it would probably be highly compressed 4320i (interlaced) for 16:9 broadcast material.

http://www.nhk.or.jp/8k/index_e.html

Just give me 8K | Rec. 2020 | 4:4:4 | 120fps | 48-bit color depth | 64 audio channels | and a top shelf margarita with a shot of Grand Marnier on the side, pronto! Is that too much to ask for?

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post #10352 of 10572 Old 01-30-2015, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post
Just give me 8K | Rec. 2020 | 4:4:4 | 120fps | 48-bit color depth | 64 audio channels | and a top shelf margarita with a shot of Grand Marnier on the side, pronto! Is that too much to ask for?
Amen
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post #10353 of 10572 Old 01-30-2015, 08:18 PM
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You guys are nuts.

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post #10354 of 10572 Old 01-30-2015, 09:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
some addition info on the LG PF1500 1080P pico LED projector

http://translate.google.com/translat...-726&sandbox=1

it looks like Cine4home has seen a pre-production model, I'd like to hear what he thinks about it.

It has some interesting wireless features built in like Miracast which I use all the time with my Android and Win 8.1 Surface to broadcast photos and video to my TV's / Projectors. It also claims 3D support, 2D -> 3D + CFI.
here is a lengthy discussion on this new pico 1080P model from Cine4home and I can't understand a word of it.

It looks like they are taking a good look at the PQ @ around 20 mins in, running through a variety of different content. I would like to know what Ekkehart is saying.

Anyone speak german that can assist with a basic executive summary? This looks brighter than I was expecting.


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post #10355 of 10572 Old 01-31-2015, 07:26 PM
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Z10K


Der screen in the HT is 3,5 m wide


Ekki talk about that they are ( positive ) surprised over the projector, its not without weak sides, but very impressive.


The pixels is Sharp and defined on the full HD material


The Picture you see in the video is with the projector in eco mode ( 3,5 wide Picture ! ) and the projector is very
silent, about as the best "normal" HT projectors in noise .


They find the Frame Interpolation to Work good.


It has many adjustment possibilities ( gamma, CMS, color temperature etc. )


They find the colors to be very natural and very impressive (just the blue can be a Little to powerful )


Its biggest weakness is the absolute Black level and contrast, most on the very dark scenes, by brighter Things in the images was it not a problem. ( but here it is not on level with good HT projectors )


In generel the find the sharpness and FI to be good and the brightness to be impressive ( more then good )
It should do 3D and have enough light for it ( but they didnt test it, becouse it was a proto type, that didnt have the 3D implanted yet ).


After that, they show some Pictures with a HT projector making the left half part of the Picture and the LG the right part ( especially the starry sky, have it problems displaying properly )


later they show a dark blue scene, where the LED LG make the blue color a Little violet compared to the HT proj.


Other Things: they miss a lens shift and the zoom is to small, but all in all they where ver impressed and believed that it could easily cost much more, considering its picture quality and light output.


good night ( its early morning now here )


dj
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post #10356 of 10572 Old 01-31-2015, 08:07 PM - Thread Starter
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dj - thanks very much for the summary! I have at least 2 rooms to use this projector in when it's released. the claim is under 1K in the US in Feb/March. I plan on getting one as soon at they are available here.
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post #10357 of 10572 Old 02-01-2015, 04:41 PM
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I can't see any stars on the right side of the screen (LG) but can easily on the left (HT projector). Does this mean that the LG can't display anything close to black where a starfield could and should be seen against the black?

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post #10358 of 10572 Old 02-02-2015, 08:15 AM
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Agreed. On my next update cycle- which won't be for 2 or 3 years, I'm sure that I'll get a 4K projector, not because I'm excited about 4K but because that's what will be broadly available by then. My projector is extremely bright and for 2D, I watch it at at cinema normal mode. Even for screens 12', I'm very skeptical that, from normal viewing distances, there will be ANY discernable advantage with 8K. I suspect, Joe Kane would agree.
What is normal viewing distance? I view a 9' wide scope screen from 9'. I can definitely tell a difference between 1080P and 4K.
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post #10359 of 10572 Old 02-02-2015, 09:01 AM
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What is normal viewing distance? I view a 9' wide scope screen from 9'. I can definitely tell a difference between 1080P and 4K.
I would agree. Mike, just curious, at what level are you eyes on the screen? 1/3 way down, half way down, etc.

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post #10360 of 10572 Old 02-02-2015, 10:39 AM
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I would agree. Mike, just curious, at what level are you eyes on the screen? 1/3 way down, half way down, etc.
A little more than 1/3 screen height up from the bottom.

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post #10361 of 10572 Old 02-02-2015, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
What is normal viewing distance? I view a 9' wide scope screen from 9'. I can definitely tell a difference between 1080P and 4K.
I would define "normal viewing distance" as the distance that the majority of people sit from their screen. Personally, I'm probably farther than most on my 10' screen and you're probably closer for your screen size. Therefore, in your circumstance 4K or 8K might be beneficial. This is a choice that's up to you to make. I do believe that for the majority of people, the increased resolution would be irrelevant.

My- mostly 3D- YouTube Channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Tarnway/videos?view=0

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post #10362 of 10572 Old 02-02-2015, 12:18 PM
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Which "most people" are you talking about? If you're talking "most people" with, say, and HD display (ie including TVs and projection systems) I agree, but given this is the Hi-End Projectors forum, if we're talking most owners here, I would disagree, I would guess most people with projectors sit well within 5 screen heights.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #10363 of 10572 Old 02-02-2015, 12:25 PM
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Which "most people" are you talking about? If you're talking "most people" with, say, and HD display (ie including TVs and projection systems) I agree, but given this is the Hi-End Projectors forum, if we're talking most owners here, I would disagree, I would guess most people with projectors sit well within 5 screen heights.
I guess this is not a point which we can reasonably debate since, I'll freely admit that in the context you state, I may very well be incorrect, as you may also be. Perhaps we should contact Gallup for some official polling data. I myself sit within 5 screen heights which is a big difference from the gentleman who sits at 9 feet from a 9 foot screen

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post #10364 of 10572 Old 02-02-2015, 02:58 PM
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I guess this is not a point which we can reasonably debate since, I'll freely admit that in the context you state, I may very well be incorrect, as you may also be. Perhaps we should contact Gallup for some official polling data. I myself sit within 5 screen heights which is a big difference from the gentleman who sits at 9 feet from a 9 foot screen
Keep in mind, it is a scope screen. Rather than width, like most use, we should use height, since height is more of a limiting factor than width. My image is only 44.5" high (2.40 aspect ratio), so 9' from my 16:9 image is not that close. I doubt that many people would think sitting 9' away from a 96" diagonal 16:9 image would be too overwhelming.

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post #10365 of 10572 Old 02-02-2015, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
Keep in mind, it is a scope screen. Rather than width, like most use, we should use height, since height is more of a limiting factor than width. My image is only 44.5" high (2.40 aspect ratio), so 9' from my 16:9 image is not that close. I doubt that many people would think sitting 9' away from a 96" diagonal 16:9 image would be too overwhelming.
At 5 picture heights viewing distance I can't believe one would see any difference between 1080p from 720p (or even 480). This would be 30 ft from my 6 ft H screen!
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post #10366 of 10572 Old 02-03-2015, 03:03 PM - Thread Starter
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some additional details on the pre-production LG PF1500 from Cine4home. Some features were not enabled yet like the adaptive iris.

http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projek..._lg_pf1500.htm

But that's not enough, we wanted to bring the LG PF1500 its limits and let him illuminate a 4m wide Cinemascope screen with a black optimized space. The result left us speechless: Its light output was more than sufficient to provide a credible brightness, at the same time was its black level at this image size well enough not to interfere. The sharpness did not have to hide from the home cinema optimized versions higher price ranges. It was surreal, like a smaller projector could "beam" such a large image in such a quality of the canvas.

Ironically, a favorable Beamer dwarf like the LG PF1500 was undoubtedly one of the most exciting equipment that has reached our testing facilities in recent months. With it's innovative LED technology is raised mainly in brightness and color fidelity at a level that many could not imagine not long ago. This alone would be enough already for a positive conclusion at this point.


But what the little LED-rounder finally makes currently so unique is its incredibly well-implemented network capability via radio. Without a single video cable, you accept images from almost all sources, yes even works as a separate media server. All this succeeds in a fabulous speed and ease of use that comes with it easily, without exception, every deal.


The LG PF1500 is thus the first truly multimedia projector that can be integrated into any infrastructure within minutes without IT knowledge. As a replacement TV on the coffee table, a feature film machine in your home theater, as a large monitor replacement travel or Night TV in the bedroom, the possibilities are truly limitless. And all he achieved an amazing quality, where you finally no longer need to talk of big compromises. Only in the optical placement flexibility (Zoom & Lens Shift), we hope to further increases in future generations. The projector has made us so much fun, like hardly any other device and a heavy heart that we have again returned the prototype device according to our tests the manufacturer.


The LG PF1500 undoubtedly has the potential to become firm favorite with all who seek a universal projector-rounder with good quality and excellent network properties. He is also the perfect addition to conventional TV or home theater, because it is the attractive large image always and everywhere. Impatient now we wait for the series device in May for the final test results


+1 on Ekki's thoughts above, hard to believe one of the most exciting new projectors for me this year is a pico LED model. There's already some great models in my HT, this little 'beamer' will find a home in several other rooms in my house. The wireless features are great!!



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post #10367 of 10572 Old 02-03-2015, 03:08 PM
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Think I have found my helper PJ for my JVC. Sounds pretty good. I can see myself bringing this out to my camp in the summer.

James Reid:D
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post #10368 of 10572 Old 02-03-2015, 04:23 PM
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I'll bet this little projector puts the Optoma LED HD90/91 to shame. It looks like it is significantly brighter and has better on/off contrast. The lack of placement flexibility doesn't particularly concern me -- I'll trade that any day for brightness, great 3D and good on/off contrast. I'm surprised that Cine4Home thought the contrast was pretty good. Hopefully the modulation of the LEDs will be implemented better than it has been for other LED projectors -- in other words its actually usable.

"...where you finally no longer need to talk of big compromises"

Here's the translation for Mark.

https://translate.google.com/transla...htm&edit-text=

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post #10369 of 10572 Old 02-04-2015, 01:03 PM
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I'll bet this little projector puts the Optoma LED HD90/91 to shame. It looks like it is significantly brighter and has better on/off contrast. The lack of placement flexibility doesn't particularly concern me -- I'll trade that any day for brightness, great 3D and good on/off contrast. I'm surprised that Cine4Home thought the contrast was pretty good. Hopefully the modulation of the LEDs will be implemented better than it has been for other LED projectors -- in other words its actually usable.

"...where you finally no longer need to talk of big compromises"

Here's the translation for Mark.

https://translate.google.com/transla...htm&edit-text=


The more I read about it the more excited I get. The SMART features are fantastic and I love that it functions much like a TV in turning on and off. I just hope it is not over priced up here in Canada.

James Reid:D
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post #10370 of 10572 Old 02-04-2015, 01:18 PM
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here is a lengthy discussion on this new pico 1080P model from Cine4home and I can't understand a word of it.
Try viewing the Cine4Home page using Google Chrome browser. It has a language conversion function that worked reasonably well, and I was able to follow the review no problem converted to english.
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post #10371 of 10572 Old 02-04-2015, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks but I was strictly talking about the 37 minute video. We've already discussed the written review a few posts back. Good stuff, I'll have one here as soon as they are avail in the US
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post #10372 of 10572 Old 02-05-2015, 04:10 PM
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For those interested in 3D, including both active and passive, I posted this over on the ultimate 3D thread.

O.K. -- well I finally got around to getting my passive 3D system up and going (took me over 1 1/2 years to finally put the time in).

I bought the filters and glasses online from a forum member who makes and sells this stuff. I stacked my Epson 6010 and 6020 projectors -- I was surprised that I could get them converged so quickly (I do have some experience with CRT front projectors and this was easier). I ran an HDMI cable from my Oppo to a splitter I use for my Teranex 3D processor. Then I ran HDMI cables from the two outputs to the two Optoma boxes (one for the left image and one for the right) and then from the boxes to each projector. I'm running both projectors in Dynamic mode with the lamps cranked to full power for as much light as they can muster. I'm also using FI for 3D. The first images (Hercules 3D with the Rock) were very strange; however, I flipped the glasses upside down and the 3D image self-corrected so I reversed the filters I had on the projectors and everything fell into place -- bright (each projector is throwing over 2000 lumens at my 2.8 120" high power screen) ghost-free with skin tones that actually look pretty good considering dynamic mode -- the filters and glasses seem to compensate and correct the abundance of green for dynamic mode). Occasionally the right side of my glasses blanks out but comes back in a few seconds -- not sure if this has to do with the screen not retaining enough polarization (I don't know much about this since I usually watch 3D on my active system -- either a Sharp 30000 or Mits HC-8000 (and HC-7900)). There's definitely more contrast with this passive system than with my DLPs.

Anyway I'm sure having fun with this stuff. Now I'm going to try my Teranex 3D processor and convert some 2D to 3D. This should be interesting. The only downside is that my hydro bills will be increasing.
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post #10373 of 10572 Old 02-05-2015, 07:10 PM - Thread Starter
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which filter and glasses are you using?

I thought these setups required a specific screen type, I didn't think it would work on the HP
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post #10374 of 10572 Old 02-05-2015, 08:39 PM
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which filter and glasses are you using?

I thought these setups required a specific screen type, I didn't think it would work on the HP
No special screen needed. An HP works fine. Each of the glasses' lenses has its own color tint.

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post #10375 of 10572 Old 02-05-2015, 09:13 PM - Thread Starter
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some of the passive kits I've read about looked like there was going to be obvious color anomalies due to the specific filters and glasses being used.

What kit is this? Does it have the same potential issues that I see with passive 3D glasses in the theater? One of the areas I don't like is being able to introduce x-talk with head movement, i've seen this at a number of Imax theaters. The other is seeing reflections in the theater with 1 eye and not the other due to the polarization difference.

side note, I dusted off some of the Amiga's recently to show some coworkers who never saw these computers back in the 80's. they all still work (A500/600/1000/1200/2000). These were way ahead of their time! Lightwave and Imagine 3D were 2 of the coolest programs back then. waited all night for those frames to render...
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post #10376 of 10572 Old 02-05-2015, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
some of the passive kits I've read about looked like there was going to be obvious color anomalies due to the specific filters and glasses being used.

What kit is this? Does it have the same potential issues that I see with passive 3D glasses in the theater? One of the areas I don't like is being able to introduce x-talk with head movement, i've seen this at a number of Imax theaters. The other is seeing reflections in the theater with 1 eye and not the other due to the polarization difference.

side note, I dusted off some of the Amiga's recently to show some coworkers who never saw these computers back in the 80's. they all still work (A500/600/1000/1200/2000). These were way ahead of their time! Lightwave and Imagine 3D were 2 of the coolest programs back then. waited all night for those frames to render...
Good times. I worked with a student at the university where I taught, as he created a 30 second animation for the school's annual media awards event. It took a solid month to render the animation on our two Amiga 3000s, using Lightwave. The video was recorded to a Panasonic D3 machine a single frame at a time. That "kid" went on to become one of the top people in his field, working for Lucas, Spielberg, Cameron, Peter Jackson and most recently Sony animations studios. It all started on the Amiga. Ahead of its time - indeed!

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post #10377 of 10572 Old 02-06-2015, 06:47 AM
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No special screen needed. An HP works fine. Each of the glasses' lenses has its own color tint.
I'm using the Omega system and yes, any screen is supposed to work. I had to put both projectors into econo mode from normal mode -- it was just too bright. I could see the HP's fabric in scenes where there was a lot of white. I've never experienced this before. With both projectors in econo mode it is still really bright and saves both power and the lamps. This 3D is totally ghost-free and surprisingly the colour is quite good -- no sunburns. The nice thing about this this setup is that it allows one to use all the 2D functions these projectors have -- FI, DI, Super Resolution, etc. (The 6010 and 6020 don't allow all of these to be used in 3D mode.)

So, I have very bright, ghost-free 3D with reasonable colour but I also have a problem. For some reason the right lens in the passive glasses blanks out for a few seconds every four or five minutes (happens to everyone watching through these glasses -- very strange). I'm going to try switching the bottom projector to the right eye and the top one to the left eye and reverse the filters as well to keep everything in sync and see what happens.

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post #10378 of 10572 Old 02-06-2015, 06:54 AM
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I'm using the Omega system and yes, any screen is supposed to work. I had to put both projectors into econo mode from normal mode -- it was just too bright. I could see the HP's fabric in scenes where there was a lot of white. I've never experienced this before. With both projectors in econo mode it is still really bright and saves both power and the lamps. This 3D is totally ghost-free and surprisingly the colour is quite good -- no sunburns. The nice thing about this this setup is that it allows one to use all the 2D functions these projectors have -- FI, DI, Super Resolution, etc. (The 6010 and 6020 don't allow all of these to be used in 3D mode.)

So, I have very bright, ghost-free 3D with reasonable colour but I also have a problem. For some reason the right lens in the passive glasses blanks out for a few seconds every four or five minutes (happens to everyone watching through these glasses -- very strange). I'm going to try switching the bottom projector to the right eye and the top one to the left eye and reverse the filters as well to keep everything in sync and see what happens.
I think you may be my new 3D home theater hero, at the moment😊

My- mostly 3D- YouTube Channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Tarnway/videos?view=0

Barry C
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post #10379 of 10572 Old 02-06-2015, 06:56 AM
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I think you may be my new 3D home theater hero, at the moment😊
Ya, just call me Captain 3D!
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post #10380 of 10572 Old 02-06-2015, 07:09 AM
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Ya, just call me Captain 3D!
I would say Admiral, at least!!

My- mostly 3D- YouTube Channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Tarnway/videos?view=0

Barry C
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Reply Digital Hi-End Projectors - $3,000+ USD MSRP

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