Projector Mini-Shootout Thread - Page 359 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #10741 of 10768 Old Yesterday, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
Tell your UPS guy that he is going to have to up his game. Let him know that Zombie's UPS guy beat him out of the gate.
Got my unit about a half hour ago. Just setting it up now. It needs a lot of help out of the box. The remote is quite odd, but I'm getting the hang of it.

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post #10742 of 10768 Old Yesterday, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by biliam1982 View Post
Where did you guys order it from?

Only thing I see is availability in 2+ weeks from big river, B&H, et al.
I bought mine from B&H and I think Zombie did too, but I'll let him comment. We must have been some of the last purchasers before they went out of stock.

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post #10743 of 10768 Old Yesterday, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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I've been burning it in for a few hours, I want to see if the focus stays solid which is looking good so far.

it's amazing how close it can focus, I can get under a foot with a clear focus.

I tried some 3D but no luck so far, I was hoping it was hidden in there. it doesn't make sense why the Korean version would have it but not the US.



ps. Yes to BH as well. hopefully they will all restock soon, i think these will be popular for the size and convenience + price
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post #10744 of 10768 Old Yesterday, 12:33 PM
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Do you have it at work??

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post #10745 of 10768 Old Yesterday, 12:46 PM - Thread Starter
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yes, we have some nice 120" Dalite screen's here too that are lit up with BenQ SH940's. I'm going to head to a conference room soon and take a look at a screen that isn't brown.
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post #10746 of 10768 Old Yesterday, 12:49 PM
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There's a nice set of test patterns built in to adjust brightness, contrast, sharpness, and a couple other things. Unless you have a test pattern disc on your mede8ter. The default settings are off a bit.
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post #10747 of 10768 Old Yesterday, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
I think they offered an upgrade to the 10.2 HDMI 2.0 chip in the current model, so that is something definitely worth while. Not trying to justify the product, but if that was added, it would definitely be a step up.
Snake Oil! J/K! If they did, then that's cool. But still not $2500 extra cool.

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post #10748 of 10768 Old Yesterday, 01:50 PM - Thread Starter
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8-9 seconds from cold boot to a full HDMI sync to the mede8ter, that is insanely fast!! I just did it 3 times to make sure I wasn't seeing things.
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post #10749 of 10768 Old Yesterday, 02:44 PM
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Just a quick shot. The difference in size and weight is a bit comical


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post #10750 of 10768 Old Yesterday, 02:55 PM
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What's the picture quality difference. I would think the better lens and chip size in the runco would be obvious.
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post #10751 of 10768 Old Yesterday, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I tried some 3D but no luck so far, I was hoping it was hidden in there. it doesn't make sense why the Korean version would have it but not the US.
It would if Disney owns shares in LG (no 3D for North America). Just another incentive to sign the Disney petition over on the 3D section.
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post #10752 of 10768 Old Yesterday, 06:38 PM - Thread Starter
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about right there fills up the 142" 16:9 screen. it's surprisingly sharp from edge to edge considering how small the DMD is and a plastic lens.

time for a calibration and see how some movies look.

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post #10753 of 10768 Old Yesterday, 08:00 PM
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I posted some thoughts on the PF1500 in the sub $3000 forum thread:

Quote:
  • Pro's:
  • I really like the "Smart TV" features this projector brings. It's a breath of fresh air to have all this extra functionality at the tips of your fingers. Pre-loaded you can have access to Spotify, Netflix, Hulu and a few other apps.
  • It's extremely bright for an LED projector. I'm getting around 700 lumens after my Lumagen Auto-Calibration. Even higher if you're fine with some of the out of the box modes.
  • Considering the DMD size you're able to get a reasonably sharp looking image. Not quite as sharp as some of the other .65" DMD DLP projectors at or around this price, but pretty close.
  • It's extremely quiet in Medium and Low brightness mode. It's highest output mode is probably around 40 dB if I had to guess, the other two modes cut that in half if I had to take a guess. I don't have a dB meter.
  • The speakers are excellent. Better than a good set of laptop speakers and they're able to go loud without distortion.
  • Plenty of image pop. The relatively good native contrast, decent lens performance, and high brightness really give the image a good three dimensional feel in brighter scenes.
  • It's extremely portable. The small footprint, tripod compatible mounting, great speakers, and wireless capabilities including smart TV apps really make this a great portable projector to bring with you on the go.
  • It's got freakin' LEDs!! The best part about this projector is that you get the typical DLP PQ that other projectors give you in this price range, but you get an extremely long lasting reliable light source for "free" when you consider the price of similarly endowed projectors.

    Cons:
  • There is no dynamic dimming technique to boost on/off contrast performance. This is the biggest blow that this projector could have had. The "Dynamic Contrast" settings are merely digital contrast enhancements. Each mode alters the amount of contrast on a frame by frame basis to exacerbate the amount of digital contrast in each frame. Because this isn't done optically by lowering the amount of lumens through the light engine (combined with dynamic gamma) you're stuck with the native amount of contrast. So depending on zoom and placement expect 2000:1 contrast at the high end.
  • Input lag is very high. I measured 169.8 ms of input lag from the Leo Bodnar Input Lag Tester (this uses a 1080p 60hz input to test). Oddly enough, enabling other post processing features such as either frame interpolation mode (smooth motion) didn't add any input lag. For comparison I got 23.3ms on the Q750i. Most DLP models at or above this price point are usually much lower. It doesn't appear this is a "gamer friendly" projector. The projector is basically running an operating system in the background at all times and I think this is why the lag is so high.
  • There is quite a bit of visible RBE, aka the rainbow effect. There are fewer visible occurrences than on a UHP/color wheel DLP projector with similar brightness and contrast, but still there's visible RBE quite a bit more than on other LED DLP projectors such as the Q750i. Considering the Q750i has practically the same lumen output, I can only guess that LG for some reason is choosing to cycle the LEDs much slower to do sequential color. This makes color breakup that much easier to see. I don't know why. Perhaps this is a limitation of this new .47" DMD and how fast it's response time is for mirror movements.
  • There is a fixed offset to the lens. I don't know the exact angle, but I'd guess around 30 degrees. When there's no lens shift, an offset makes setup more difficult.
  • There is a red reflection on screen at all times. It's really only clearly visible on an all black background and I believe it's coming from the reddish accent ring at the end of the lens. I suppose some black velvet material and glue could easily fix this.


All in all, this is an impressive projector when you take into account all that LG gives you at this price point. They're basically giving you a projector just as capable as others at this price point, but adding in Smart TV capabilities and an LED light engine for the same price as other lamp based units. Does it have an image as refined as something in the $1500-$3000 price range? No, but it's overall performance is on par with that of other DLP units at or below $1000 plus the benefits previously mentioned. And these benefits definitely add lots of value.

If there's a way for LG to update this unit via firmware to include DLP Link 3D, a true (decent performing) LED dimming dynamic contrast implementation, and lower the input lag to at least 50ms then I think this projector would be an absolute steal at this price point. Consider all this can be done via software/processing LG could definitely offer such improvements down the road.

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post #10754 of 10768 Old Yesterday, 08:11 PM
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My biggest problem with this projector and why I'd never take the risk and buy one is that LG hasn't provided information about whether or not the LEDs are user replaceable -- what happens if the LEDs fail outside of warranty -- especially at this price point? What's the cost going to be and whose going to replace them? Good god what is LG thinking?
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post #10755 of 10768 Old Yesterday, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post
My biggest problem with this projector and why I'd never take the risk and buy one is that LG hasn't provided information about whether or not the LEDs are user replaceable -- what happens if the LEDs fail outside of warranty -- especially at this price point? What's the cost going to be and whose going to replace them? Good god what is LG thinking?
Except LG is giving the LEDs for "free" considering you get on par performance with other $1000 DLP lamp projectors. When they start charging $2000 (double the price) just for the inclusion of LEDs (which have a much longer half life than the lasers btw) then we can have that discussion.

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post #10756 of 10768 Old Yesterday, 08:16 PM - Thread Starter
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The game mode had no effect on the lag time?

I'm watching Oblivion after a quick calibration, I think it looks better than I was expecting and can see why Cine4home gave it praises for such a small projector. I'm running the medium lamp where it's located since i'm getting decent gain from the HP. I can force to see RBE but in general it's fine for me. Better than the QUMI without a doubt.

Miracast is working great on the Surface Pro, S4 and the Xperia tablet. This is a great feature to stream content from your mobile devices to the projector. can't get much more portable than this. I agree the speakers are very good for being so small.

There's a good chance I'll open it and swap out those fans with Noctua's, i think they would be great mod to quiet it down in high lamp.

so far it's exactly what I wanted in a QUMI replacement for watching TV at night. amazing how fast it shuts down and boots up. 8-9 seconds for full brightness/HDMI lock.
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post #10757 of 10768 Old Yesterday, 08:18 PM
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I'll test game mode. Didn't think of that. Yes, for price and feature set, it's got an excellent image. Definitely better than the Optoma HD131X I had here a while back.

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post #10758 of 10768 Old Yesterday, 08:22 PM - Thread Starter
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thanks, that lag tester is much faster than me lugging out the 19" CRT monitor and the camera on the tripod.
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post #10759 of 10768 Old Yesterday, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
thanks, that lag tester is much faster than me lugging out the 19" CRT monitor and the camera on the tripod.
Game mode is 70.0 ms. Still a tad bit high for would-be gamers. What are you getting for lumen output? I'm getting ~650-680 lumens in expert and cinema modes depending on where I have my meter at the screen. Either mode wasn't all too great of a starting point to put it through the auto-cal via the lumagen. The Q750i measueres in at 23.3ms ()

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post #10760 of 10768 Old Yesterday, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I've had the Runco LED stacked with the Planar, they look strikingly similar with a D65/R709 calibration. I've also had the CineLED here as well, Optoma HD91 LED and another LED I haven't discussed yet. Plus i've used a QUMI LED on a nightly basis for the last 3.5 years which I'm replacing with the LG.

it's clear some folks with the LED's are running in native mode, they brag about the 'rich, vibrant colors' which translates into overcooked colors. probably fine for animations but wouldn't run this mode for the typical movie.
Jason,

Did you see the DPI Cine LED 1000 lumen version or the 600 lumen version that blee also had? I saw the Cine LED 1000 at Mike Garrett's and I was very impressed at the depth and dimension the image had....very impressive. I also saw Mike's Sony 600es that you had calibrated and the colors were awesome. I almost talked myself into getting a Cine LED 1000 but I would've needed an anamorphic lens for it to have worked with my 2.35 screen so I'm waiting till this fall for a 4k projector. I was still very impressed with the Cine LED 1000.

Mike
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post #10761 of 10768 Old Today, 05:30 AM
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Dylan, great write up on the pf 1500!

We all wana see a similar write up on how the runco q750i compares to the current pjs
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post #10762 of 10768 Old Today, 06:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbw23air View Post
Jason,

Did you see the DPI Cine LED 1000 lumen version or the 600 lumen version that blee also had? I saw the Cine LED 1000 at Mike Garrett's and I was very impressed at the depth and dimension the image had....very impressive. I also saw Mike's Sony 600es that you had calibrated and the colors were awesome. I almost talked myself into getting a Cine LED 1000 but I would've needed an anamorphic lens for it to have worked with my 2.35 screen so I'm waiting till this fall for a 4k projector. I was still very impressed with the Cine LED 1000.

Mike
Mike, hi, yes it was the Cine LED 1000. Of all the different projectors I have here, it was closest to my Planar which makes sense since they are all practically the same projector including the Runco 750. Once calibrated to D65/R709, they are all very similar in appearance.

I agree with the comments on the depth and dimension, these projector's PQ exceeds the raw contrast #'s which doesn't look that impressive on paper, especially compared to high native projectors like the JVC's.

The real struggle with the .95 DLP's (well all the DLP's for that matter) is the low APL performance. This is where the contrast limitations can't really hide. if I'm watching Dracula Untold, i'm going for the JVC, not the Planar (or the Cine, or the Runco, etc).

I had several chances to own the Cine and Runco LED models, the problem is that I purchased the Planar at a great price and the lamps are practically free (~100 for an OEM lamp) and they last quite a while. I don't use it enough to offset the difference in cost. The Runco 750 I believe is still 2 times the MSRP price of the Runco LS-5.

I see the argument Seegs makes for the Epson in same context. Basically paying 2 times the amount for the light source for similar PQ (JVC 4910 / Epson LS10000). For heavy users, it could definitely make sense. I agree with the point he made on the cheapie LG PF1500. It's basically giving a long life light source away for free and has comparable or better PQ than the current sub $1,000 UHP DLP's and is very portable which is a great feature.

Optoma tried to sell at $3500 for the LED based HD91 that was not competitive in PQ to the counterparts in the same price range (Epson 5030, Sony HW55, JVC RS46/X35). I don't think that worked out well for them. I'm waiting for the woot deals to show up, there must be an inventory of them somewhere.

the point is, hopefully once the R&D dollars are made back, the LED and Laser light sources will eventually become commodities and not add a substantial cost to their UHP counterparts.

I do like the ability to turn the LG on and off like a TV. I am still floored at a sub-10 second boot time with full HDMI handshake. I predict this will be a popular seller. It's just the right price point of a compulsive purchase and has very good value / functionality built in.

I'll post some calibration details later tonight. A portable projector with a built in CMS. who would have thought.
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post #10763 of 10768 Old Today, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
Mike, hi, yes it was the Cine LED 1000. Of all the different projectors I have here, it was closest to my Planar which makes sense since they are all practically the same projector including the Runco 750. Once calibrated to D65/R709, they are all very similar in appearance.

I agree with the comments on the depth and dimension, these projector's PQ exceeds the raw contrast #'s which doesn't look that impressive on paper, especially compared to high native projectors like the JVC's.

The real struggle with the .95 DLP's (well all the DLP's for that matter) is the low APL performance. This is where the contrast limitations can't really hide. if I'm watching Dracula Untold, i'm going for the JVC, not the Planar (or the Cine, or the Runco, etc).

I had several chances to own the Cine and Runco LED models, the problem is that I purchased the Planar at a great price and the lamps are practically free (~100 for an OEM lamp) and they last quite a while. I don't use it enough to offset the difference in cost. The Runco 750 I believe is still 2 times the MSRP price of the Runco LS-5.

I see the argument Seegs makes for the Epson in same context. Basically paying 2 times the amount for the light source for similar PQ (JVC 4910 / Epson LS10000). For heavy users, it could definitely make sense. I agree with the point he made on the cheapie LG PF1500. It's basically giving a long life light source away for free and has comparable or better PQ than the current sub $1,000 UHP DLP's and is very portable which is a great feature.

Optoma tried to sell at $3500 for the LED based HD91 that was not competitive in PQ to the counterparts in the same price range (Epson 5030, Sony HW55, JVC RS46/X35). I don't think that worked out well for them. I'm waiting for the woot deals to show up, there must be an inventory of them somewhere.

the point is, hopefully once the R&D dollars are made back, the LED and Laser light sources will eventually become commodities and not add a substantial cost to their UHP counterparts.

I do like the ability to turn the LG on and off like a TV. I am still floored at a sub-10 second boot time with full HDMI handshake. I predict this will be a popular seller. It's just the right price point of a compulsive purchase and has very good value / functionality built in.

I'll post some calibration details later tonight. A portable projector with a built in CMS. who would have thought.
Just wish they had included 3D on the US model as they did in Korea.
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post #10764 of 10768 Old Today, 08:32 AM
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Except LG is giving the LEDs for "free" considering you get on par performance with other $1000 DLP lamp projectors. When they start charging $2000 (double the price) just for the inclusion of LEDs (which have a much longer half life than the lasers btw) then we can have that discussion.
Why do you guys take my posts soooo seriously? The is my way of saying I'm just poking fun at this stuff. It's a hobby not a war.
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post #10765 of 10768 Old Today, 11:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Just wish they had included 3D on the US model as they did in Korea.
it does seem odd that they specifically went out of their way to exclude 3D. to the point of releasing a specific remote without the 3D button.

it would have been cool to see such a little projector with 3D, but it was going to be DLP link which is going to further hurt the limited contrast as it is.

remember I posted this a while back on the Acer 5360 between DLP link and IR mode. What a difference in the end result. The IR looked much better since the DLP flash wasn't affecting the contrast.





This is what makes the Sharp 30K such a great 3D projector by going with IR.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
it does seem odd that they specifically went out of their way to exclude 3D. to the point of releasing a specific remote without the 3D button.

it would have been cool to see such a little projector with 3D, but it was going to be DLP link which is going to further hurt the limited contrast as it is.

remember I posted this a while back on the Acer 5360 between DLP link and IR mode. What a difference in the end result. The IR looked much better since the DLP flash wasn't affecting the contrast.





This is what makes the Sharp 30K such a great 3D projector by going with IR.
I totally agree that DLP link does hurt the limited contrast. That was the major issue I had with the Benq 1070. It is so easy to add a VESA port and give the user an option. I also find it interesting that the 3D version is available in Korea. I will be looking to see in what other countries the 3D version shows up.
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post #10767 of 10768 Old Today, 12:09 PM
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I don't think it would work like the Acer. I say that because you can do DLP link in one of two ways. White flash (which is how most of the DLP Link projectors do the link) which uses a white notch in the color wheel in 3D mode to sync the glasses. This white notch is what kills contrast in 3D mode. But there's also a Red flash method which I would assume an LED model like this one would use to sync the glasses. Considering the PF1500 doesn't have a color wheel (and obviously a white notch) I just can't see how they could do a "white" flash to do the link, so I'm guessing the Korean model is using Red flash for syncing with the glasses. I would imagine this doesn't hurt contrast, but don't quote me.

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My Crazy Projector Journey!
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The W7000 used red flash which definitely affected the black floor.

This is the projector in 3D mode with a 0 IRE screen during 3D calibration

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