Projector Mini-Shootout Thread - Page 364 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #10891 of 11237 Old 04-16-2015, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I don't see the Darbee being discussed much any more. Maybe it's because everyone has one already, or those buying a projector with built in image enhancement don't think they need it. I use it on all my projectors, usually HD 25-30 and think they have done the best job in this area of image enhancement vs. RC/SR & E-shift/MPC.
I finally received my pre-order (Indiegogo campaign backer) Signature Edition Darbee DVP 5100CIE this past Friday, but I haven't had time to set it up. Though I do have the Oppo BDP-103D so I've seen what it can do with Blu-ray content (I really like it, used in moderation, content specific). Interested to see how it enhances the image from DirecTV & gaming on my PS4 and HTPC...

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post #10892 of 11237 Old 04-16-2015, 02:35 PM
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Has anyone seen this in person?

http://www.amazon.com/Celluon-PicoAi.../dp/B00TZJ0XWW

it's based on the Microvision laser technology that was discussed here a little while ago

http://www.microvision.com/solutions/how-it-works/

How are they getting around the laser speckle? the lumen output is very low but it doesn't look that bad in this video. no need to focus is definitely a cool feature.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gpbepox7RbI
From the YouTube video this thing looks incredible. I have a question about the infinite focus... how well would this work projected on a vaulted ceiling? Even if it was in focus, would the image stay square or would it be keystoned (if there is such a word. ).

So picture this - assume a vaulted ceiling at like, say, 40 degrees. Now picture putting the projector on a table about 2 feet off the ground, pointed up about 6 feet to the start of the vaulted ceiling. Would this display a "square" (i.e. regularly shaped 16:9) image that was also perfectly in focus? If so, I am sooo getting one of these ASAP! Can they be found anywhere? Amazon says out of stock.

Also did I hear right in the video - just 32 lumens? Can that be right? Video looks a lot brighter than that.
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post #10893 of 11237 Old 04-16-2015, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
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there is a thread here with some early previews of current owners. I posted a link from Vimeo showing what it looks like in ambient light. It looks brighter than 30 lumens but hard to say how it will look in person.

Celluon PicoAir - any experiences yet?

once amazon gets them back in stock, I'll probably pick one up to see how it looks. I currently use the LG PF1500 LED 1080P model for watching TV at night and it's been an excellent experience so far. I like the built in sleep timer and the media player that can handle just about any content.
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post #10894 of 11237 Old 04-16-2015, 02:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hatcher View Post
I finally received my pre-order (Indiegogo campaign backer) Darbee DVP 5100CIE this past Friday, but I haven't had time to set it up. Though I do have the Oppo BDP-103D so I've seen what it can do with Blu-ray content (I really like it, used in moderation, content specific). Interested to see how it enhances the image from DirecTV & gaming on my PS4 and HTPC...
Is there any unique differences with this model vs. the original release?
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post #10895 of 11237 Old 04-16-2015, 03:58 PM
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Is there any unique differences with this model vs. the original release?
The 5100CIE incorporates phaseHD technology which supposedly makes HDMI work better over longer distances (30+ meters, projector to AVR) and it's in a "much" nicer enclosure that is rack mountable. Other than that they seem to be pretty much identical. Oh, the firmware can be upgraded in-home via USB on the 5100 as well.

As a side note, I've spoken with Larry Pace & Tom Faust a few times via phone and email and although they couldn't "confirm" that they are working on a 4K HDMI 2.0 model, their responses to my questions pretty much implied that it was at least in the works (and these conversations took place almost a year ago). Fingers crossed...

I can only imagine a native 4K display showing native 4K content enhanced by Dolby Vision/HDR and Darbee would be stunning (so long as they keep artifacts to a minimum).
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post #10896 of 11237 Old 04-16-2015, 04:19 PM
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Just picked up a used Sharp XV-Z17000 on ebay. It has a faulty DMD. A few mirrors are stuck. The simple fix is to just swap it out with a new DMD. But I had to get the model number off of the DMD inside the projector first to make sure I order the correct one. The tear down was pretty simple with the use of the Service Manual I paid $5 for. Here is the light engine design as shown in the service manual:



Physically the light engine is very compact. I'm surprised they found a way to pack two irises (one manual and one dynamic) into such a small amount of space.


I also found a couple markings showing the light engine is OEM'ed from Delta:

Dynamic Iris Mechanism


And the IR blaster for the 3D glasses is HUGE


Should take all of 20 minutes to get this XV-Z17000 back to life once the DMD arrives. The DMD is model number 1910-6137 for anyone interested.
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post #10897 of 11237 Old 04-16-2015, 04:50 PM - Thread Starter
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post #10898 of 11237 Old 04-16-2015, 05:06 PM
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The listing said it didn't come with one, but that must have been a typo or they found it after they listed it on ebay. Yeah, it works fine. I wasn't expecting one to come with it so I bought a new one expecting it would need one when it arrived. For a VERY small total investment I expect this to be a reference 3D projector with great all around 2D performance like the Z30K. But we'll have to see. I don't have the Zombie-Approved G20 3D glasses, but I plan on using the the IR receiver dongle I have and use it with my EStar RF emitter and 3D glasses.

I'm curious to see how close in overall performance this actually is to the Z30K, but I'll have to go off of memory/recollection. I haven't had a Z30K for about a year now. Maybe I should make the investment and pick up a few G20 3D glasses? Do you think they're worth it Zombie? Are they a lot better than the EStar/Optoma RF glasess? Also, do you have that 3D ISO I can test ghosting with?
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post #10899 of 11237 Old 04-16-2015, 07:13 PM - Thread Starter
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I just sent the link to the L/R patterns. Can you check to see which bulb it is? I wonder if they are as cheap to get as the 30K lamps which are going for around $85

definitely grab at least 1 pair of the G20's from ebay. did you locate a replacement DMD?
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post #10900 of 11237 Old 04-16-2015, 07:15 PM
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Interesting. I thought that the 5030 looked better with the new firmware that we saw last year at Cedia, compared to the same projector the year before. In fact, I recall Mike and I thinking it looked better than the Epson laser projector - which might not have been set up very well.
Yeah, as long as the demo guy kept it at 1 or 2, I thought it looked pretty good. The moment he went above 2, it was definitely going down hill.

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post #10901 of 11237 Old 04-16-2015, 07:15 PM - Thread Starter
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The 5100CIE incorporates phaseHD technology which supposedly makes HDMI work better over longer distances (30+ meters, projector to AVR) and it's in a "much" nicer enclosure that is rack mountable. Other than that they seem to be pretty much identical. Oh, the firmware can be upgraded in-home via USB on the 5100 as well.

As a side note, I've spoken with Larry Pace & Tom Faust a few times via phone and email and although they couldn't "confirm" that they are working on a 4K HDMI 2.0 model, their responses to my questions pretty much implied that it was at least in the works (and these conversations took place almost a year ago). Fingers crossed...

I can only imagine a native 4K display showing native 4K content enhanced by Dolby Vision/HDR and Darbee would be stunning (so long as they keep artifacts to a minimum).
thanks for the info, I remember hearing about this version a while back. It definitely looks more at home in the AV rack vs. the original which is always flopping around where I have it located.
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post #10902 of 11237 Old 04-16-2015, 08:23 PM
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thanks for the info, I remember hearing about this version a while back. It definitely looks more at home in the AV rack vs. the original which is always flopping around where I have it located.
No problem'o. I'll report my observations when I get it all setup. I just have to find a home for it in my AV rack and get it cabled up. I'll hang a Stewart ST100 sample up and take some pictures with various content.
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post #10903 of 11237 Old 04-16-2015, 08:30 PM
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thanks for the info, I remember hearing about this version a while back. It definitely looks more at home in the AV rack vs. the original which is always flopping around where I have it located.
I just set mine on top (actually bottom) of my ceiling mounted projector. I run a 40' active HDMI cable from equipment room to Darbee and a short HDMI cable from Darbee to projector. i have the Darbee set so that all LED's are turned off, so no added light from it.

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post #10904 of 11237 Old 04-16-2015, 08:36 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm guessing he is referring to the upgrade that Epson was pushing really hard at CEDIA as a breakthrough and excitedly telling people how they were improving projectors that were already in customer's and dealer's hands. Makes me think of a joke about the marketing version. Although some people would likely be happy with the changes they made, seeing more positive than negative.

I just glanced at the cine4home article a couple of weeks ago or so, but it seemed like they were equating these enhancements to a certain degree. Do you have a position about using the Darbee on top of Sony' Reality Creation on their 4K models or on top of JVC's E-shift? For instance, does the Darbee help one more than the other in your opinion given the enhancements those projectors support internally?

Thanks,
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I like using the Darbee with the e-shift and the 1100 RC set to minimum. I think it helps them equally since the process they are doing is unique and can enhance both processes when used in moderation. when combined, sometimes I run it as low as 20-25 HD.

on the base JVC (no e-shift) and the Planar, I think 35-40 HD looks great with most content.

mike - are these still popular purchases? for the low price, I can't imagine why everyone wouldn't have one by now. I just remembered that I have a spare in a box that has never been used.
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post #10905 of 11237 Old 04-16-2015, 09:12 PM
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I like using the Darbee with the e-shift and the 1100 RC set to minimum. I think it helps them equally since the process they are doing is unique and can enhance both processes when used in moderation. when combined, sometimes I run it as low as 20-25 HD.

on the base JVC (no e-shift) and the Planar, I think 35-40 HD looks great with most content.

mike - are these still popular purchases? for the low price, I can't imagine why everyone wouldn't have one by now. I just remembered that I have a spare in a box that has never been used.
Not big sellers any more. I think most AVS'ers that would buy one of these, already own one.

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Not big sellers any more. I think most AVS'ers that would buy one of these, already own one.
Another reason may be because it is embedded in some products like certain Radiance units. But more likely, yea, people are using things like RC. When the Darbee first came out there really wasn't any other such option readily available. That said, I also use a Darbee on my plasma TV which has no such smart sharpening option so its useful outside of the pj world as well.
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post #10907 of 11237 Old 04-17-2015, 07:14 AM
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Another reason may be because it is embedded in some products like certain Radiance units. But more likely, yea, people are using things like RC. When the Darbee first came out there really wasn't any other such option readily available. That said, I also use a Darbee on my plasma TV which has no such smart sharpening option so its useful outside of the pj world as well.
True, those are a couple more reasons why individual Darbee sales are down.

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post #10908 of 11237 Old 04-17-2015, 09:45 AM
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I don't see the Darbee being discussed much any more. Maybe it's because everyone has one already, or those buying a projector with built in image enhancement don't think they need it. I use it on all my projectors, usually HD 25-30 and think they have done the best job in this area of image enhancement vs. RC/SR & E-shift/MPC.
Zombie, have you tried the Darbee with the PF 1500 yet?

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post #10909 of 11237 Old 04-17-2015, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Zombie, have you tried the Darbee with the PF 1500 yet?
Yes, it looks very good with the Darbee. I have some great projectors but this little portable is one of my favorites now for watching TV or quickly streaming some videos from the phone. Miracast works perfect for me and the built in media player can handle any of the MKV's I've tried. It even played back an old MPEG file I had from 10 years ago.

I bought a 128GB flash drive to store content on. NTFS formatted, no skipping, etc. it's very quick scrubbing through the timeline.



sorry for delay on calibration settings. I learned the HDMI color settings don't carry over to the USB port without 'applying to all inputs'. I'll have some info soon to try. I had to make adjustments on every IRE setting from 10-100 for D65 cal. Color looks very good now.
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post #10910 of 11237 Old 04-17-2015, 10:51 AM
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Yes, it looks very good with the Darbee. I have some great projectors but this little portable is one of my favorites now for watching TV or quickly streaming some videos from the phone. Miracast works perfect for me and the built in media player can handle any of the MKV's I've tried. It even played back an old MPEG file I had from 10 years ago.

I bought a 128GB flash drive to store content on. NTFS formatted, no skipping, etc. it's very quick scrubbing through the timeline.



sorry for delay on calibration settings. I learned the HDMI color settings don't carry over to the USB port without 'applying to all inputs'. I'll have some info soon to try. I had to make adjustments on every IRE setting from 10-100 for D65 cal. Color looks very good now.
Anxious to see your settings. Will look for a darbee to add to the mix.

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post #10911 of 11237 Old 04-17-2015, 11:06 AM
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The listing said it didn't come with one, but that must have been a typo or they found it after they listed it on ebay. Yeah, it works fine. I wasn't expecting one to come with it so I bought a new one expecting it would need one when it arrived. For a VERY small total investment I expect this to be a reference 3D projector with great all around 2D performance like the Z30K. But we'll have to see. I don't have the Zombie-Approved G20 3D glasses, but I plan on using the the IR receiver dongle I have and use it with my EStar RF emitter and 3D glasses.

I'm curious to see how close in overall performance this actually is to the Z30K, but I'll have to go off of memory/recollection. I haven't had a Z30K for about a year now. Maybe I should make the investment and pick up a few G20 3D glasses? Do you think they're worth it Zombie? Are they a lot better than the EStar/Optoma RF glasess? Also, do you have that 3D ISO I can test ghosting with?

Eagerly waiting for your evaluation.
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post #10912 of 11237 Old 04-17-2015, 11:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Why? 17K's are even harder to find than the 30K. They show up once in a blue moon on Ebay, never on the forum though.

an Ebay dealer sold over 30 Sharp 30K's last year at a grand + over the 2013 woot price and they all sold out quickly. Still one of the best under 10K 3D projectors.
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post #10913 of 11237 Old 04-17-2015, 11:41 AM
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I'm assuming he's curious to see if the Z17K can get close to the Z30K in overall performance. When they do show up on ebay they tend to sell for at least half of what the Z30K sells for. The only big drawback on the Z17K is that placement flexibility is much better on the Z30K. If one can make the Z17K work in their setup which is a little trickier to integrate by comparison, than I'd say it might be a better value than the Z30K. I'm just waiting on the new DMD to arrive. It should be here sometime next week.
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post #10914 of 11237 Old 04-17-2015, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
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If I recall, several people saw both the 17K and 30K and thought the contrast looked better on the 30K. I was going to buy one several times years ago when they were dirt cheap but there's no way it would work right with my HP screen. Same thing for Mits 7900 and 8000.

The options for under 10K 3D DLP's with full lens shift are very limited. Today it's basically the BQ W7500 (DLP link) or the Optoma HD91 which is too dim in 3D.

For an inexpensive ebay find + a replacement DMD, it's a very good flip, I'm sure someone here will enjoy it when your done with it. Especially if they buy the best in class G20 glasses.
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post #10916 of 11237 Old 04-17-2015, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
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SHP 119 for the 17K, the 30K was SHP135. good to see they are avail and cheap.

it would be good to post the info in the 30K thread for the member that just bought a 17K.

speaking of original lamps, some crazy folks on Ebay are still trying to get top dollar on the older Sony VW200 projectors.. An original lamp for the VW200 costs more than the 1080P LED projector I just bought.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SONY-XENON-R...-/361155001447
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post #10917 of 11237 Old 04-17-2015, 12:16 PM
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Beastly heatsinks on that Xenon bulb! That thing must run HOT.
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post #10918 of 11237 Old 04-17-2015, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
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400 Watt lamp, they weren't even that bright calibrated. There must have been a ton of light lost in the optical path. I don't understand why sellers think they are still worth $4,000. Nice looking projector though. It was like a junior version of the Qualia 004. I would still like to display one of those in the rack. great futuristic design.
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post #10919 of 11237 Old 04-17-2015, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
I'm assuming he's curious to see if the Z17K can get close to the Z30K in overall performance. When they do show up on ebay they tend to sell for at least half of what the Z30K sells for. The only big drawback on the Z17K is that placement flexibility is much better on the Z30K. If one can make the Z17K work in their setup which is a little trickier to integrate by comparison, than I'd say it might be a better value than the Z30K. I'm just waiting on the new DMD to arrive. It should be here sometime next week.

Exactly my thought. I have a lot of placement flexibility, so if Z17k comes anywhere near Z30k, an used one will serve me exceedingly well, provided I get one.

And with news of availability of DMD and cheap bulb, it will serve for a long time.
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post #10920 of 11237 Old 04-17-2015, 03:12 PM - Thread Starter
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I would also contact this member:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/member...larrimore.html

he owned the 30K for a while and also just bought a 17K recently.


this one just ended recently and included 4 sets of the infamous G20 glasses.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sharp-XV-Z17...-/251897949635

This was a good deal for only $445 + new lamp

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sharp-XV-Z17...-/331504082086

$860 with only 100 original hours

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sharp-XV-Z17...-/121566651966


definitely some deals out there on this model.
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