Projector Mini-Shootout Thread - Page 376 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11251 of 13849 Old 05-21-2015, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by conan48 View Post
I find I usually much rather watch a movie as a solo experience for the most part.

Negatives of watching movies with friends and/or family:

1. Cell phones!!!!!!!!! How many of your friends/family turn off there cell phones when they watch a movie at your house? It's a ****ing epidemic! I'm fairly young at 34 and constantly having people texting, emailing, etc gets on my nerves. I flipped out on a friend once who literally texted through an entire movie.

2. Talking. Watching movies is generally NOT A SOCIAL EXPERIENCE. You sit in a dark room and watch a film, other then the occasional one liner or giggle, I find it kinda awkward sitting with a bunch of people and not saying anything. I personally can't stand talking, even with friends during a movie, unless I've already seen it a few times.

3. Hard to find movies to watch with people anyway. I like dark/mature/foreign/indie movies, and good luck finding people who will appreciate watching those types of movies or any movie that has subtitles. Made the mistake once of having "normal" people over and decided to watch OLDBOY (korean) and they were scarred for life. LOL. Never wanted to watch a movie at my place again. So unless you have friends who share similar tastes, or are into the same genre stuff you're into, have fun watching Fast and the Furious movies, comic book movies, or only big blockbuster type stuff, and even if you have film connoisseur friends......

4. Movie snobs. Aholes who have to pick apart every movie because they need to show off how intelligent they think they are.

The only movies I'd rather watch WITH people are comedies. Comedies lend themselves to a social experience, as can some bigger budget "popcorn" movies.

Maybe I just have ****y friends and faimily. LOL.

For me a personal viewing VR device would be pretty awesome.
Yep, I generally agree with you. Besides comedies, I always try and view first run movies alone so there are zero distractions. There are only 1 or 2 of my friends I truly even enjoy watching movies with since they know how to shut the F up and enjoy the film and not talk, ask questions, etc....during the presentation. Nothing takes me out of a film quicker then having any sort of human distraction. Everyone is different though as evidenced by the responses here. Concerts I am a bit more inclined to watch with people, but even those I prefer to watch alone, especially first watch. This mainly applies to my home theater where I am more interested/focused on technical aspects. Going out to a movie theater I am fine going with friends since I just expect distractions in that setting and I can never get a read on audio/bass in a commercial theater anyway so I am not as focused and interested from that aspect.

I will just also add that even watching with my GF who I generally enjoy watching with, she has to have her cell phone in there for work, or if her boys text or call and it annoys the $hit out of me!!!

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post #11252 of 13849 Old 05-21-2015, 08:18 PM
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In Dr. Raymond Soneira's DisplayMate review of the LG 55EA9800 OLED he states in the "Screen Reflections" section, "The LG OLED TV has the lowest screen Reflectance of any display that we have ever measured, just 2.2 percent, which is half of the previous 4.4 percent record – an impressive achievement. LG accomplished this by using both an anti-reflection screen treatment together with circular polarizers that suppress light reflections (which are part of the TV’s 3D FPR optics, below)".

Here's another reflectance quote from the same article: "Reflectance Test Results: Using an Integrating Hemisphere and Spectroradiometer we measured an Average Screen Reflectance of 2.2 percent for the LG OLED TV, the lowest we have ever measured for any display. The Specular (Mirror) Reflectance was also very low at 2.7 percent. We measure that with a Spectroradiometer using a narrow collimated pencil beam of light that is reflected off the screen. LG accomplished this by using both an anti-reflection screen treatment together with circular polarizers that suppress light reflections (which are part of the TV’s 3D FPR optics)".
http://www.displaymate.com/LG_OLED_TV_ShootOut_1.htm

Hopefully LG will continue to improve on that over the next few years, but so far so good. It's not perfect, but I highly doubt we would see reflections from a normal seating distance in a darkened room...maybe if you had something with a light on it behind you, but that could be eliminated.
This sounds like an excellent start for OLED TV, for I agree that reflections from highly reflective tv's have been the most annoying feature I've observed. $25K for LG's 77" diag model is pretty prohibitive at present, but it may become much more reasonable as the technology matures. Still hard to see how it could replace my 144x72 screen, though; seems no way a rigid screen of this size could work its way into the room, so things this size will await the 'roll up' variety.
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post #11253 of 13849 Old 05-21-2015, 08:43 PM
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This sounds like an excellent start for OLED TV, for I agree that reflections from highly reflective tv's have been the most annoying feature I've observed. $25K for LG's 77" diag model is pretty prohibitive at present, but it may become much more reasonable as the technology matures. Still hard to see how it could replace my 144x72 screen, though; seems no way a rigid screen of this size could work its way into the room, so things this size will await the 'roll up' variety.
I'm no Nostradamus, but I'm predicting 10+ years before 100"+ 4K or 8K OLED versions are residentially available for ~$25,000. And that may be a bit optimistic.

So while it is exciting that this technology is just around the corner, in the grand scheme of things, we better not run out and sell our projectors and a kidney just yet.

But who knows, at the rate technology is progressing these days, it could happen sooner rather than later. We're currently in a niche market, but if LG or whoever can figure out a way to manufacture really large OLED or QLED displays than can be rolled onto a tube and easily and cheaply shipped, and they are able to price them within reach of more consumers, the market will surely boom. That's a lot of "IF" though...

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post #11254 of 13849 Old 05-21-2015, 09:55 PM
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I am not sure about a 100" flat panel, but I would guess that 80" panels will be relatively affordable. I could see 80" OLEDs going for under $5k in less than five years. Anything bigger than that will be market determined. I would be interested to know how big the market is for TVs over 80".
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post #11255 of 13849 Old 05-21-2015, 09:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Looking forward to this! Movie watching is a solo activity for me as I find it distracting watching movies with others in general (with the exception of watching with the GF sometimes).
I made the mistake tonight of going to see Mad Max 3D in a local cinema. At first I thought it would be ok, the theater was relatively empty. Then a family of 7 came in.. with a 2 year old. Who sat in my row. next to me. And let the kid watch the movie without 3D glasses. how do you think that went?

The 3D was good but this 'Real 3D' DLP projector's black levels were pretty weak, several low APL scenes looked flat. brightness was very good though and sharp overall.

This movie wasn't anything of what I was expecting. Great chase scenes but that was it for me, I wasn't a fan of the story. No comparison IMO to the memories created by the 2nd Mad Max - Road Warrior. I have the BD sitting right next to me. I better watch it now to bring some redemption to what they did to this movie.
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post #11256 of 13849 Old 05-21-2015, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I made the mistake tonight of going to see Mad Max 3D in a local cinema. At first I thought it would be ok, the theater was relatively empty. Then a family of 7 came in.. with a 2 year old. Who sat in my row. next to me. And let the kid watch the movie without 3D glasses. how do you think that went?

The 3D was good but this 'Real 3D' DLP projector's black levels were pretty weak, several low APL scenes looked flat. brightness was very good though and sharp overall.

This movie wasn't anything of what I was expecting. Great chase scenes but that was it for me, I wasn't a fan of the story. No comparison IMO to the memories created by the 2nd Mad Max - Road Warrior. I have the BD sitting right next to me. I better watch it now to bring some redemption to what they did to this movie.
Yeah, that type of experience can kill it for me as well.

Thanks for the movie report. I am planning to make it out to see it as well.
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post #11257 of 13849 Old 05-22-2015, 05:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I made the mistake tonight of going to see Mad Max 3D in a local cinema. At first I thought it would be ok, the theater was relatively empty. Then a family of 7 came in.. with a 2 year old. Who sat in my row. next to me. And let the kid watch the movie without 3D glasses. how do you think that went?

The 3D was good but this 'Real 3D' DLP projector's black levels were pretty weak, several low APL scenes looked flat. brightness was very good though and sharp overall.

This movie wasn't anything of what I was expecting. Great chase scenes but that was it for me, I wasn't a fan of the story. No comparison IMO to the memories created by the 2nd Mad Max - Road Warrior. I have the BD sitting right next to me. I better watch it now to bring some redemption to what they did to this movie.
Who brings a 2 year old to a movie like that? And why did they have to sit next you in an empty theater? Maybe they figured you would watch their kid lol
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post #11258 of 13849 Old 05-22-2015, 05:54 AM
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Why buy them from Hong Kong and China. Keep looking you will find good used ones. Ask the seller to test them to be sure they hold a charge before you buy them.
Is it possible to test them without a compatible Sharp display?
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post #11259 of 13849 Old 05-22-2015, 08:18 AM
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Quick question, do the sony 3d glasses I have from my 55es work with the 350es? I know it has the universal RF on it, and it is just as simple as firing it up and trying I guess, but I didn't have time last night.....
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post #11260 of 13849 Old 05-22-2015, 09:03 AM
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Quick question, do the sony 3d glasses I have from my 55es work with the 350es? I know it has the universal RF on it, and it is just as simple as firing it up and trying I guess, but I didn't have time last night.....
No, the IR glasses will not work with the 350.

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post #11261 of 13849 Old 05-22-2015, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I made the mistake tonight of going to see Mad Max 3D in a local cinema. At first I thought it would be ok, the theater was relatively empty. Then a family of 7 came in.. with a 2 year old. Who sat in my row. next to me. And let the kid watch the movie without 3D glasses. how do you think that went?

The 3D was good but this 'Real 3D' DLP projector's black levels were pretty weak, several low APL scenes looked flat. brightness was very good though and sharp overall.

This movie wasn't anything of what I was expecting. Great chase scenes but that was it for me, I wasn't a fan of the story. No comparison IMO to the memories created by the 2nd Mad Max - Road Warrior. I have the BD sitting right next to me. I better watch it now to bring some redemption to what they did to this movie.
This is exactly why I have my own theater now. Besides, no commercial theater can give me the PQ that my residential theater provides so it's a mute point to even consider going to any local commercial theaters for me.

Well, I do still enjoy watching movies such as Transformers, Pacific Rim & Godzilla (movies with larger than life monsters or robots) on a really large screen. It's cool to be able to get a better sense of scale. But for normal movies, no way. Too many distractions (cell phones, kids, people talking, etc...) in a theater. And commercial theaters are required to leave on safety lighting (which is distracting itself)...no thanks.
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post #11262 of 13849 Old 05-26-2015, 05:59 PM
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I recently had Chad B out to re-cal/tune-up my RS4810. He did a great job as usual and I highly recommend him if you're interested in getting your projected pro-cal'd.

Offical JVC DLA-RS4810 Owners Thread
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post #11263 of 13849 Old 05-26-2015, 08:07 PM - Thread Starter
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both the greyscale and gamma are relatively easy to calibrate on the 4810, have you considered picking up calibration equipment for tune ups?

The D3 Pro + CP combo is a great affordable kit for this purpose. it's nice to watch a projector after a fresh calibration, I just did this recently on the RS46 and it looks great.
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post #11264 of 13849 Old 05-27-2015, 07:30 AM
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both the greyscale and gamma are relatively easy to calibrate on the 4810, have you considered picking up calibration equipment for tune ups?

The D3 Pro + CP combo is a great affordable kit for this purpose. it's nice to watch a projector after a fresh calibration, I just did this recently on the RS46 and it looks great.
Yes, the fresh cal is still making me shake my head at just how good this projector can look.

Thanks for the suggestion, but given Chad's prices are very reasonable including for tune-ups (which are cheaper than initial cal) and given he's uses a reference spectro Jeti 1211 for top notch accuracy, I just rely on him to come out periodically to optimize every aspect of the image from head to toe.


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post #11265 of 13849 Old 05-27-2015, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
both the greyscale and gamma are relatively easy to calibrate on the 4810, have you considered picking up calibration equipment for tune ups?

The D3 Pro + CP combo is a great affordable kit for this purpose. it's nice to watch a projector after a fresh calibration, I just did this recently on the RS46 and it looks great.
Zombie,

Can you please reply to my PM when you get a chance?

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post #11266 of 13849 Old 05-27-2015, 06:34 PM
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Where does Chad reside? The low price probably only applies for those who live in the same area that he lives.

Dave
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post #11267 of 13849 Old 05-27-2015, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
both the greyscale and gamma are relatively easy to calibrate on the 4810, have you considered picking up calibration equipment for tune ups?

The D3 Pro + CP combo is a great affordable kit for this purpose. it's nice to watch a projector after a fresh calibration, I just did this recently on the RS46 and it looks great.
After having some RS232 issues with my Minolta I decided to get one the D3 Pro's to use with ChromaPure. I love it so far and it's CHEAP too. Tom Huffman said it's normally (unit to unit variation) more accurate than the Minolta for color measurements. It's got a lot of bang for the buck.

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post #11268 of 13849 Old 05-27-2015, 07:00 PM
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Where does Chad reside? The low price probably only applies for those who live in the same area that he lives.

Dave
He covers a lot of the midwest, east, and south - sometimes goes west though.

I would send him a PM to see if there is anything lined up for the AZ area.

He also does audio. He calibrated my Denon X3000 with the pro-Audyssey and REW - sounds phenomenal and much better than the basic auto cal Audyssey.



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post #11269 of 13849 Old 05-27-2015, 09:58 PM
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lovingdvd


Yes, Im pretty sure that the CP2 is arround 0.9 gain and when I did compare the CP4K and Neo S they looked about the same gain, but I will test them Again ( and maybe find / use my lightmeter too ) , when I get some time and then return to you ( probely in a week or something ) with a fresh view / opion


dj


BTW. the EN4K was visible dimmer then the CP2, when I did compare them, at that time, that was one of the resons, I didnt go with that screen materiel.


BTW2.


all three of the materiels in my Photo ( CP2, CP4K and Neo S ) had the same kind of Black backing layer behind them.
Well, looks like I beat you to it.

I got a hold of a good sample of CP4. It measured around 0.92 gain. Enlighter-Bright / Center Stage XD measures closer to 1.0 and is about 8% brighter than CP4 by my tests. This is also noticeable when viewing projected images on the fabric side by side.

My preliminary acoustics testing of the screen transparency looks to give a slight edge to the Center Stage XD as well. Its possible the CP4 does better with color shift, although I can't detect any such shift in a 2 x 2 sample of XD. The CP4 material is a little less noticeable so perhaps if I was planning to sit closer than 12 feet that could be a swaying factor. But from everything I've seen the XD material is still my top pick. At this point I've pretty much exhausted all other options, having tested many AT screens now over the past couple months. I big part of this is that at 140"w 2.40 screen I'll be scrambling for all the brightness I can get, so being 8% brighter with seemingly everything else being equal (or close to it) XD gets (or I should say "keeps") my vote.
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post #11270 of 13849 Old 05-28-2015, 07:40 AM
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Well, looks like I beat you to it.

I got a hold of a good sample of CP4. It measured around 0.92 gain. Enlighter-Bright / Center Stage XD measures closer to 1.0 and is about 8% brighter than CP4 by my tests. This is also noticeable when viewing projected images on the fabric side by side.

My preliminary acoustics testing of the screen transparency looks to give a slight edge to the Center Stage XD as well. Its possible the CP4 does better with color shift, although I can't detect any such shift in a 2 x 2 sample of XD. The CP4 material is a little less noticeable so perhaps if I was planning to sit closer than 12 feet that could be a swaying factor. But from everything I've seen the XD material is still my top pick. At this point I've pretty much exhausted all other options, having tested many AT screens now over the past couple months. I big part of this is that at 140"w 2.40 screen I'll be scrambling for all the brightness I can get, so being 8% brighter with seemingly everything else being equal (or close to it) XD gets (or I should say "keeps") my vote.
XD is a nice fabric, as long as it works with your viewing distances.

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post #11271 of 13849 Old 05-28-2015, 10:18 AM
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Hey Zombie, when you going to test this:
http://www.engadget.com/2015/05/27/p...box/#continued

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See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #11272 of 13849 Old 05-28-2015, 10:46 AM
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Hey Zombie, when you going to test this:
http://www.engadget.com/2015/05/27/p...box/#continued

That just flat out is not going to work for me. I like to watch my movie while I am eating my pizza. With this, I would have to eat the pizza first.
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post #11273 of 13849 Old 05-28-2015, 12:06 PM
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Well, looks like I beat you to it.

I got a hold of a good sample of CP4. It measured around 0.92 gain. Enlighter-Bright / Center Stage XD measures closer to 1.0 and is about 8% brighter than CP4 by my tests. This is also noticeable when viewing projected images on the fabric side by side.

My preliminary acoustics testing of the screen transparency looks to give a slight edge to the Center Stage XD as well. Its possible the CP4 does better with color shift, although I can't detect any such shift in a 2 x 2 sample of XD. The CP4 material is a little less noticeable so perhaps if I was planning to sit closer than 12 feet that could be a swaying factor. But from everything I've seen the XD material is still my top pick. At this point I've pretty much exhausted all other options, having tested many AT screens now over the past couple months. I big part of this is that at 140"w 2.40 screen I'll be scrambling for all the brightness I can get, so being 8% brighter with seemingly everything else being equal (or close to it) XD gets (or I should say "keeps") my vote.




But a Little strange, because I have Again ( by eyes only for now ) compared the CP2 against the CP4 and the Neo S and visible, I have to say, I was wrong, when I said they were equel, the CP2 looks a Little brighter then the CP4 and Neo ( and if the CP4 is 0.92 gain, then the CP2 must be higher in gain ).
I will try too measure later.




Thanks for sharing your Measurement, LD


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post #11274 of 13849 Old 05-28-2015, 02:38 PM
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Hey Zombie, when you going to test this:
http://www.engadget.com/2015/05/27/p...box/#continued

Dang, you beat me to it, LOL! I was just reading that article and thought the same thing.

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post #11275 of 13849 Old 05-28-2015, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by d.j. View Post



But a Little strange, because I have Again ( by eyes only for now ) compared the CP2 against the CP4 and the Neo S and visible, I have to say, I was wrong, when I said they were equel, the CP2 looks a Little brighter then the CP4 and Neo ( and if the CP4 is 0.92 gain, then the CP2 must be higher in gain ).
I will try too measure later.




Thanks for sharing your Measurement, LD


dj
I know you find your updated observations a bit confusing, but based on what I am seeing your updated observations are more likely correct compared to your initial observations.

What is the minimum viewing distance that you care about watching from and where is your main watching position?
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post #11276 of 13849 Old 05-29-2015, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
I know you find your updated observations a bit confusing, but based on what I am seeing your updated observations are more likely correct compared to your initial observations.

What is the minimum viewing distance that you care about watching from and where is your main watching position?

My main seat is about 1:1 ( 2.8 m wide and 2,8 m back ) and I like it, second row about 3,8 m and third row 4,8 m back.


I havnt found a minimum viewing distance, but I will not much closer ( maybe minimum around 2,5 m = 0,9 x screen wide )


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post #11277 of 13849 Old 05-31-2015, 01:30 AM
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havent seen any discussion with regards the new UHD blu-ray spec....source material wise that is a real boon....but has here been any word of new UHD projectors with UHD resolution, covering the wider gamut, HDR etc form any of the makers ? cedia is not that far away...youd think they'd be all beavering away working on having product on show for it...even if prototypes ? with market release for CES ?

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post #11278 of 13849 Old 05-31-2015, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau View Post
havent seen any discussion with regards the new UHD blu-ray spec....source material wise that is a real boon....but has here been any word of new UHD projectors with UHD resolution, covering the wider gamut, HDR etc form any of the makers ? cedia is not that far away...youd think they'd be all beavering away working on having product on show for it...even if prototypes ? with market release for CES ?
I am sure that the projector manufacturer's are working on it, but they are not going to talk about it early. No one wants to tip their hand to the competition.
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post #11279 of 13849 Old 06-06-2015, 07:12 PM
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I've reached level Zombie. The only difference is I'm not crazy enough (or rich enough) to keep them all here at the same time. I've decided to take the Zombie route and sell my X500 and keep an X30 (which I also have here) while I wait for JVC to wow me with something 4K. The DC4 upgraded PD8150 will be sold soon after and I haven't decided on the Sharp. Nothing but a Z30K can do 3D this well at a price I can afford to keep. The Sony stays for now. Plus I need some extra cash for my trip to Europe at the end of July.

Above the X500's immaculate black levels the Sony wins out with PQ as one would expect considering it's price tag. On it's own, not A/B'ed, I still haven't found content where the Sony looks subjectively "bad" when it comes to contrast.




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post #11280 of 13849 Old 06-06-2015, 08:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Nice collection! it looks familar

I think you should keep the Sharp for the same reason i'm keeping the DC4 planar. Both had for a great price (the Planar was new old stock) and great in their own respective areas (Planar for 2D, Sharp for 3D). Those are the finds worth keeping imo. Plus I've been using it for gaming recently.

Are you testing any 4K gaming on the Sony?
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