Projector Mini-Shootout Thread - Page 379 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11341 of 17730 Old 07-21-2015, 06:49 PM
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Anyone try these out? $25.......

http://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Clear-Re...Z65C07PASRR59S

Thoughts/opinions?

JVC CMD Vertical Banding: Affects all currently shipping lamp based JVC Projectors
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PLEASE CALL JVC AND REPORT THE CMD BANDING IF THIS BOTHERS YOU
1-800-252-5722
Choose option 1, then 4 and have your serial# ready (located on back of unit or box).
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post #11342 of 17730 Old 07-21-2015, 07:06 PM
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Thanks beast! So these definitely worked with the 7000? I didn't see any mention of DLP-link compatible, but I probably missed it.
Well, this guy is trying to sell you on something different, but you can see clearly that the 3active does come in DLP link

https://quantum3dglasses.com/3active...glasses/#close
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post #11343 of 17730 Old 07-21-2015, 07:13 PM
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I wish I would have kept my BenQ W7000, really sharp image. Would have made a great companion for my JVC. Speaking of companion projectors, how are those with the new LED LG liking it?

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post #11344 of 17730 Old 07-21-2015, 07:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Toe how are you, all is good here. It's been a while since i've tested DLP link glasses, looks like some good advice coming in from others.

The ghost of my previous W7000 lives on at my work, I have BQ SH940's everywhere in the conference rooms. These have been great performers, usually running 8-10 hours a day, high lamp. Nice and sharp for desktop PC demo's (websites / presentations, etc).

I've been using the LED LG mostly every night for some TV before bed. I set the built in sleep timer to turn off after an hour or so. It's usually lights out soon after those chairs go back.



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post #11345 of 17730 Old 07-21-2015, 08:03 PM
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Nice Zombie! That looks like a cool little projector and great for throwing a lot of hours on. Looks to be HP friendly as well? All is well my friend, just cruising along.

Thanks for the help all. I ordered the cheap $25 glasses and will give those a shot since reviews seemed very favorable overall. If those don't work well, will give something else a shot.

JVC CMD Vertical Banding: Affects all currently shipping lamp based JVC Projectors
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...rojectors.html
PLEASE CALL JVC AND REPORT THE CMD BANDING IF THIS BOTHERS YOU
1-800-252-5722
Choose option 1, then 4 and have your serial# ready (located on back of unit or box).
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post #11346 of 17730 Old 07-21-2015, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by cardoski View Post
I wish I would have kept my BenQ W7000, really sharp image. Would have made a great companion for my JVC. Speaking of companion projectors, how are those with the new LED LG liking it?
Love the LG PF1500 LED. I use it on a 92" 2.4 gain HP screen for HDTV and couldn't be more happy with it.

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post #11347 of 17730 Old 07-21-2015, 09:37 PM
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Great info from both you and Zombie! I'm guessing that the JVC and Sony might do even better than that on lumens - probably why they are so popular.

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Yes the JVC and Sony are around 950 and 1100 calibrated, respectively.

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post #11348 of 17730 Old 07-22-2015, 07:02 AM
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The Runco LS-5 is technically brighter @ D65 than the Epson or Panasonic calibrated to D65. They both lose a ton of lumens when corrected to D65/R709. The Planar/Runco is near dead on out of the box.
And that is at what, around 1000 lumens where the sony is closer to 1500 lumens. Runco boasts some pretty high fL though which confuses me. Also, how does a runco machine stack up to the big 4 with stuff like motion, contrast (on/off, dynamic, whatever), lag etc? Sorry for being nosey, I just want to know more about their product. Reading their website gets me a little closer but I am an audio guy...the video realm escapes me somewhat. I have never even calibrated a PJ in my space :ashamed:

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post #11349 of 17730 Old 07-22-2015, 09:42 AM
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And that is at what, around 1000 lumens where the sony is closer to 1500 lumens. Runco boasts some pretty high fL though which confuses me. Also, how does a runco machine stack up to the big 4 with stuff like motion, contrast (on/off, dynamic, whatever), lag etc? Sorry for being nosey, I just want to know more about their product. Reading their website gets me a little closer but I am an audio guy...the video realm escapes me somewhat. I have never even calibrated a PJ in my space :ashamed:
I've got a Planar 8150 (basically same machine as the LS5, just from before Planar rolled that line under the Runco brand) and a RS4910. How do they stack up? Well this largely echoes Zombie and Seegs' reports already:

Lag: The planar crushes the JVC, I thought I might be able to sell my Planar, but I just can't game on the JVC, it's terrible, where as I'm fine with the Planar, I'm sure someone's got numbers somewhere.
Motion: I can't stand FI, so I don't use that, but native motion, basically, I don't have a problem with either.
Contrast: JVC is obviously way better, black level is far superior and with a JVC with a new lamp vs 1400+ hours on my Planar, it's brighter as well, even in low lamp (vs Planar on high), I'd have to go measure just how much I have to pull the JVC back to get them close. All that said, 90-95% of the time, there's very little to choose from between them. It's only in the very darkest scenes that the JVC pulls ahead. It's really pretty amazing considering the 8150/LS5 is an 8 year old design. It was among, if not the best projector under $10k when it came out, and it's still the best DLP projector under $10, probably by far unless you want 3D.

Of course there are some other, potentially smaller things:
Calibration: The Planar is basically perfect out of the box, and stays essentially perfect indefinitely. The JVC starts out good, but develops a "gamma droop", and "needs" calibration. I'd say the JVC needs periodic maintenance to keep it in top form. I know before I touched up the gamma with my Lumagen (manually) the "depth" of my JVC's picture fell below that of my Planar, despite having better contrast.

Ergonomics: The JVC has rather finicky HDMI inputs, it takes a good bit longer than the Planar to lock on to signals. Also there's no IR input jack, so I find the remote control to be not as reliable. I run my system with a URC MX-880 via an MRF-350 with IR (either stick on emitters or direct cables) to every device but the JVC. My Planar never fails to power on or off with this setup (direct IR cable) but the JVC will occasionally miss a power on or off.

Actually, I occasionally debate if I'll keep my 4910, it surely throws a very nice picture, but given I "need" to keep my Planar for gaming, and given how close they are most of the time, I sometimes have a hard time justifying the (admittedly very reasonable) cost of the 4910 in addition. I suppose part of it was, when I got the RS4910, I assumed I'd be able to get rid of one machine, either it wouldn't live up to the hype and I'd sell it, or it would crush my Planar and I'd sell the Planar. Reality is a lot more gray than that. It seems I'm not quite the contrast junky that a lot of folks here are. Side by side/back to back the differences are pretty obvious. But the counter example is this: I have friends over for movie night quite often. We usually start with some food watching some entertaining show we all like, followed by some gaming. I start with the Planar 8150 since I need that for gaming, I don't think anyone really finds anything "lacking" in that setup. I then fire up the JVC for the main feature once the gaming is done. And it's definitely not a "night and day" sort of thing. Really the most obvious difference between the two is in a fade to black, the JVC can hold the illusion of black much longer than the Planar.

I suspect my tastes/senses are pretty close to zombie and Seegs given my RS4910 experiment has basically confirmed for myself what they've reported. But I don't think I'm quite as hard on DLP as Seegs is. A good DLP can hold up remarkably well against the latest LCoS/DiLA, though at the same time I know they really can't sell that on the marketing front.

On last word, if picture quality and price were equal, I'd take a Runco over a JVC any day, at least based on my Planar the build quality and overall "refinement" are noticeably better.
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post #11350 of 17730 Old 07-22-2015, 12:21 PM
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Thanks for the pointers here Great post and very informative

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post #11351 of 17730 Old 07-22-2015, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
I've got a Planar 8150 (basically same machine as the LS5, just from before Planar rolled that line under the Runco brand) and a RS4910. How do they stack up? Well this largely echoes Zombie and Seegs' reports already:

Lag: The planar crushes the JVC, I thought I might be able to sell my Planar, but I just can't game on the JVC, it's terrible, where as I'm fine with the Planar, I'm sure someone's got numbers somewhere.
Motion: I can't stand FI, so I don't use that, but native motion, basically, I don't have a problem with either.
Contrast: JVC is obviously way better, black level is far superior and with a JVC with a new lamp vs 1400+ hours on my Planar, it's brighter as well, even in low lamp (vs Planar on high), I'd have to go measure just how much I have to pull the JVC back to get them close. All that said, 90-95% of the time, there's very little to choose from between them. It's only in the very darkest scenes that the JVC pulls ahead. It's really pretty amazing considering the 8150/LS5 is an 8 year old design. It was among, if not the best projector under $10k when it came out, and it's still the best DLP projector under $10, probably by far unless you want 3D.

Of course there are some other, potentially smaller things:
Calibration: The Planar is basically perfect out of the box, and stays essentially perfect indefinitely. The JVC starts out good, but develops a "gamma droop", and "needs" calibration. I'd say the JVC needs periodic maintenance to keep it in top form. I know before I touched up the gamma with my Lumagen (manually) the "depth" of my JVC's picture fell below that of my Planar, despite having better contrast.

Ergonomics: The JVC has rather finicky HDMI inputs, it takes a good bit longer than the Planar to lock on to signals. Also there's no IR input jack, so I find the remote control to be not as reliable. I run my system with a URC MX-880 via an MRF-350 with IR (either stick on emitters or direct cables) to every device but the JVC. My Planar never fails to power on or off with this setup (direct IR cable) but the JVC will occasionally miss a power on or off.

Actually, I occasionally debate if I'll keep my 4910, it surely throws a very nice picture, but given I "need" to keep my Planar for gaming, and given how close they are most of the time, I sometimes have a hard time justifying the (admittedly very reasonable) cost of the 4910 in addition. I suppose part of it was, when I got the RS4910, I assumed I'd be able to get rid of one machine, either it wouldn't live up to the hype and I'd sell it, or it would crush my Planar and I'd sell the Planar. Reality is a lot more gray than that. It seems I'm not quite the contrast junky that a lot of folks here are. Side by side/back to back the differences are pretty obvious. But the counter example is this: I have friends over for movie night quite often. We usually start with some food watching some entertaining show we all like, followed by some gaming. I start with the Planar 8150 since I need that for gaming, I don't think anyone really finds anything "lacking" in that setup. I then fire up the JVC for the main feature once the gaming is done. And it's definitely not a "night and day" sort of thing. Really the most obvious difference between the two is in a fade to black, the JVC can hold the illusion of black much longer than the Planar.

I suspect my tastes/senses are pretty close to zombie and Seegs given my RS4910 experiment has basically confirmed for myself what they've reported. But I don't think I'm quite as hard on DLP as Seegs is. A good DLP can hold up remarkably well against the latest LCoS/DiLA, though at the same time I know they really can't sell that on the marketing front.

On last word, if picture quality and price were equal, I'd take a Runco over a JVC any day, at least based on my Planar the build quality and overall "refinement" are noticeably better.
The projector that I have owned that has had the most issues is a Planar DLP.

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post #11352 of 17730 Old 07-22-2015, 10:11 PM - Thread Starter
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stanger that is a good perspective between the 2 projectors, thanks for sharing. a lot of thought was put into the Planar. It took JVC years to finally have baseline color settings that are pretty close out of the box, the Planar/Runco models are excellent in this regard and the gamma doesn't move from what i've seen so far. Basically set it and forget it.

These .95 DLP's are also very naturally sharp, they don't need image processing like reality creation to look great. i think we've gone backwards a bit here with some models like the 1080P Sony's but the JVC's get a close second for natural sharpness (e-shift turned off).

There's several of these available on ebay for relatively inexpensive prices. These are a great recommendation to folks shopping the budget DLP models and aren't looking for 3D. The 2D PQ of this projector is impressive even today and the original lamps are still available at a great bargain price. + there is appeal for the gamers.
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post #11353 of 17730 Old 07-23-2015, 05:03 AM
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stanger that is a good perspective between the 2 projectors, thanks for sharing. a lot of thought was put into the Planar. It took JVC years to finally have baseline color settings that are pretty close out of the box, the Planar/Runco models are excellent in this regard and the gamma doesn't move from what i've seen so far. Basically set it and forget it.
Maybe if I get ambitious I'll run both through HCFR. But yeah, my Planar probably has close to 5000 hours on it, it's about 6-7 years old, on it's 4th or 5th lamp and gamma is dead flat and white balance was very close last time I checked too. Whatever they did with the lamps in those was great, they really don't drift at all.

In comparison I'm probably in the 100 hours or so on my RS4910 and I've already had to correct a "huge" gamma droop.

Quote:
These .95 DLP's are also very naturally sharp, they don't need image processing like reality creation to look great. i think we've gone backwards a bit here with some models like the 1080P Sony's but the JVC's get a close second for natural sharpness (e-shift turned off).

There's several of these available on ebay for relatively inexpensive prices. These are a great recommendation to folks shopping the budget DLP models and aren't looking for 3D. The 2D PQ of this projector is impressive even today and the original lamps are still available at a great bargain price. + there is appeal for the gamers.
I'd still like to try two Planars with Motorman's filters and a 3d Demultiplexer for Passive 3D and see what that's like. But I really just can't justify the expense for no more than I enjoy 3D.

I've watched some 3D on the JVC and haven't really been impressed. The ghosting is noticeable and annoying. It's not too bad on 3D BDs. I've watched Star Trek Into Darkness (which I understand was a conversion) and Big Hero 6, and frankly I probably (would have) enjoyed both more in 2D. Yeah the 3D is kinda neat, but that's about it.

Interestingly, my friend and I were going to watch BH6 in 3D, but he only made it about a minute before it drove him crazy, not sure what it was exactly, he didn't describe it as flicker or ghosting. He's never said anything about RBE or issues with my Planar though so I wouldn't have thought he'd be bothered by active 3D. Oh well.
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post #11354 of 17730 Old 07-23-2015, 05:13 AM
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The one huge turn off for me with passive 3D is the need for a polarizing screen like a silver one.
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post #11355 of 17730 Old 07-23-2015, 05:40 AM
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Not with Motorman's/Omega's 3D filters, they're chromatic filters. Though unlike Dolby 3D they use 2 wavelengths per color, rather than one, so they're supposed to have better color balance.
Official Omega 3D passive projection system thread
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post #11356 of 17730 Old 07-23-2015, 07:03 AM
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I'll have to look into those filters.
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post #11357 of 17730 Old 07-23-2015, 07:34 AM
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I am new to owning a projector and happen to have a JVC 4910. I keep reading about some awful (is it awful?) defect called gamma droop. Is this something I would even notice, does the picture quality decline that much?

I enjoy the picture quality very much so far and hoping it stays that way.

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post #11358 of 17730 Old 07-23-2015, 08:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Not with Motorman's/Omega's 3D filters, they're chromatic filters. Though unlike Dolby 3D they use 2 wavelengths per color, rather than one, so they're supposed to have better color balance.
Official Omega 3D passive projection system thread
that kit looked like it was going to have noticeable color issues in each eye plus the glasses looked like they couldn't be more uncomfortable. Has a new kit been released with better glasses?

your friend was probably sensing the flicker even though it may not have been obvious at first. When comparing the JVC 3D vs. the Sharp 30K, it's very clear how 'solid' the DLP is vs. the JVC in 3D mode. I think this goes a long way for comfortably watching a feature length 3D movie. BH6 was excellent in 3D. I first saw it in 2D and was impressed with the 3D version once it became available.
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post #11359 of 17730 Old 07-23-2015, 08:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Todd you may not likely notice it unless you have a frame of reference. There have been long discussions on it and some feel it's related to panel aging not necessarily the lamp since the condition still needs to be corrected even after a new lamp is installed.

I wouldn't worry about it too much, self inflicted OCD is common here on the forums.
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post #11360 of 17730 Old 07-23-2015, 09:14 AM
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I've watched some 3D on the JVC and haven't really been impressed. The ghosting is noticeable and annoying. It's not too bad on 3D BDs. I've watched Star Trek Into Darkness (which I understand was a conversion) and Big Hero 6, and frankly I probably (would have) enjoyed both more in 2D. Yeah the 3D is kinda neat, but that's about it.

Interestingly, my friend and I were going to watch BH6 in 3D, but he only made it about a minute before it drove him crazy, not sure what it was exactly, he didn't describe it as flicker or ghosting. He's never said anything about RBE or issues with my Planar though so I wouldn't have thought he'd be bothered by active 3D. Oh well.
Too bad for 3D. It's not 3D per se that's the problem, its the equipment many of us are using. You really have to go out of your way to make 3D a great experience. It often requires a different screen and projector than what most here are using. In my opinion you need a good DLP projector and something akin to a HP 2.8 screen and a fully light controlled room with little or no reflections (dark walls, ceiling and floor).

I just purchased PowerDVD15 Ultra and for the money it provides great 3D playback and shockingly good 2D to 3D conversion (for $85???). My LCD projectors are a no go with the Teranex 2D to 3D conversion (too much ghosting); however, for some reason they work really well with PowerDVD15 (as long as the 3D control is used judiciously).

I own the following 3D projectors and compare them for 3D playback on a regular basis -- (I presently have a five projector setup in my main HT.) They are the Mits 8000 (DLP), Mits 7900 (2), Sharp 30000 (DLP), Epson 6020 (LCD), Epson 6010 (LCD) and a Panasonic PT-RZ470 (DLP). The DLPs are superb for 3D -- my favourite is the Mits (8000 or 7900). The Sharp is next.

I watch pretty much everything in 3D. For me, going back to 2D is like going from colour to black and white -- its O.K. but given a choice I'll watch in 3D.
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post #11361 of 17730 Old 07-23-2015, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd68 View Post
I am new to owning a projector and happen to have a JVC 4910. I keep reading about some awful (is it awful?) defect called gamma droop. Is this something I would even notice, does the picture quality decline that much?
What's that saying about raising the temperature slowly vs jumping into hot water? I'd say it's significant, enough so that I'd consider tracking down a Spyder 4 so you can run the auto cal. I noticed it, but there were probably two things working for me (against?) to do so, I'd read about it so I knew it was possible, and I've got another projector to compare it to. When I first got the RS4910, it had as good or better depth than my Planar, but one night I noticed that the Planar looked better. Sure enough when I got out my meter and measured it, it had the gamma droop. Calibrating it with my Lumagen returned it to where it was.

So if you're just using it, you probably won't notice it, but it's definitely something worth fixing if you're interested in it.
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post #11362 of 17730 Old 07-23-2015, 09:30 AM
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Too bad for 3D. It's not 3D per se that's the problem, its the equipment many of us are using. You really have to go out of your way to make 3D a great experience. It often requires a different screen and projector than what most here are using. In my opinion you need a good DLP projector and something akin to a HP 2.8 screen and a fully light controlled room with little or no reflections (dark walls, ceiling and floor).

I watch pretty much everything in 3D. For me, going back to 2D is like going from colour to black and white -- its O.K. but given a choice I'll watch in 3D.
Well a HP isn't an option for me, even if they were available, I'd have to cut my screen size almost in half. Right now I've got a 110" wide screen in a 138" wide room. When you account for 4-6" of frame, plus about 10" of bumpout right in front of the screen, my screen currently fills essentially the whole front width. A HP would require me to put speakers on the side which would take at least 24" out of the screen, I'd be down to barely over 80" wide.

That said, for me, it's not really the dimness or other that's really the problem. For me it really comes down to 3D ends up being one of two things, it's either too subtle to even notice, or it's in your face and gimmicky. I've yet to leave a movie thinking 3D "made" it, or even made it better. To me it's "cool" and "fun" but I could take it or leave it.

I think for me, the fact that stereoscopic "passive" 3D like you get with movies, has a fixed perspective is possibly the biggest issue. This is still one of the best "3D" demos I've ever seen, giving the best, most realistic, most natural 3D effect I've seen, and it's not even stereoscopic, it's just using head tracking to adjust the displayed perspective on the fly:

Deja Vu likes this.
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post #11363 of 17730 Old 07-23-2015, 09:37 AM - Thread Starter
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I had to adjust the gamma recently on the RS46 even though it has low hours. I still prefer the granular gamma controls on the 46 vs. the 4910. It makes it very easy to adjust greyscale @ 5-25 IRE which is usually off a good bit on the recent JVC's I've had here including the 6710.

DV - Sharknado 3 must look killer in 3D. I may have to spend the $$ for PDVD 15 so I can see it in person.
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post #11364 of 17730 Old 07-23-2015, 09:40 AM
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I noticed gradual gamma droop on my RS4810 especially during bright scenes. Once it was re-cal'd, it was nice to see it corrected.
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post #11365 of 17730 Old 07-23-2015, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I had to adjust the gamma recently on the RS46 even though it has low hours. I still prefer the granular gamma controls on the 46 vs. the 4910. It makes it very easy to adjust greyscale @ 5-25 IRE which is usually off a good bit on the recent JVC's I've had here including the 6710.

DV - Sharknado 3 must look killer in 3D. I may have to spend the $$ for PDVD 15 so I can see it in person.
Calman never released their software for the 4910 or 2014 models JVCs, correct?
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post #11366 of 17730 Old 07-23-2015, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I had to adjust the gamma recently on the RS46 even though it has low hours. I still prefer the granular gamma controls on the 46 vs. the 4910. It makes it very easy to adjust greyscale @ 5-25 IRE which is usually off a good bit on the recent JVC's I've had here including the 6710.
Yeah, I did it manually through my Radiance. Haven't been able to bring myself to spend the $$$ on the autocal-enabled Calman or Chromapure.
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post #11367 of 17730 Old 07-23-2015, 11:33 AM
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I noticed gradual gamma droop on my RS4810 especially during bright scenes. Once it was re-cal'd, it was nice to see it corrected.
How did you re-calibrate? Do you have a lumagen? (It's hard to keep track of everyone's gear on AVS )
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post #11368 of 17730 Old 07-23-2015, 12:55 PM
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How did you re-calibrate? Do you have a lumagen? (It's hard to keep track of everyone's gear on AVS )
Chad Billheimer (Chad B on the forum) calibrates it for me. I don't have a Lumagen - he just uses the Calman software available for the RS4810. I have thought about a Lumagen just to get those primaries and secondaries dialed in a bit better, but haven't purused it. However, my overall color gamut dE is only 1.28 if I recall from the last cal. But I do have some colors like blue and teal at 50-75% around 3 to 3.5 dEs. I'm not sure how noticeable it really is as the color seems excellent. I have a Samsung F5300B plasma that has virtually reference color for comparisons and visually - the two look very similar in that regard. My recent cal results are here if anyone wants to take a peak. You can also see how much my gamma dropped over 500 hours.

Offical JVC DLA-RS4810 Owners Thread

Last edited by DavidHir; 07-23-2015 at 01:00 PM.
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post #11369 of 17730 Old 07-23-2015, 03:13 PM
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What's that saying about raising the temperature slowly vs jumping into hot water? I'd say it's significant, enough so that I'd consider tracking down a Spyder 4 so you can run the auto cal. I noticed it, but there were probably two things working for me (against?) to do so, I'd read about it so I knew it was possible, and I've got another projector to compare it to. When I first got the RS4910, it had as good or better depth than my Planar, but one night I noticed that the Planar looked better. Sure enough when I got out my meter and measured it, it had the gamma droop. Calibrating it with my Lumagen returned it to where it was.

So if you're just using it, you probably won't notice it, but it's definitely something worth fixing if you're interested in it.
Do you know if it's possible to use the new Spyder5Elite or Pro with the JVC AutoCal function? I'd rather get the latest version if at all possible. I guess I could just try it and if it doesn't work send it back and order the older one.

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post #11370 of 17730 Old 07-24-2015, 04:30 AM
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Do you know if it's possible to use the new Spyder5Elite or Pro with the JVC AutoCal function? I'd rather get the latest version if at all possible. I guess I could just try it and if it doesn't work send it back and order the older one.
Everything I've read in the Autocal thread says it has to be a Spyder 4.
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