Projector Mini-Shootout Thread - Page 382 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11431 of 13831 Old 09-05-2015, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
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to keep from going OCD on the settings, I have a few reference movies I use that look great with my calibrations. If a new movie looks off, I just let it go and watch it anyway.

on the topic of directors intent - If you watch the new Mad Max movie, I thought they did a great job filming the night scenes. I think George Miller and team knew that dark muddy night scenes in 3D don't work so they went with a deep blue color scheme where you could still see plenty of detail and got the sense that it was night time. My guess is that they filmed in dusk lighting and used the color filters to give it the appearance of night.

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post #11432 of 13831 Old 09-05-2015, 02:27 PM
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I'm confused. According to this, Mad Max is fake 3D. If true, I doubt they planned any of the lighting to benefit 3D specifically.
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post #11433 of 13831 Old 09-05-2015, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
I'm confused. According to this, Mad Max is fake 3D. If true, I doubt they planned any of the lighting to benefit 3D specifically.
That site is hilarious. There's no such thing as "Fake 3D". Yes, you can shoot 3D natively like his list of "Real 3D" movies are but that doesn't mean you can't shoot with a single camera knowing it will be turned into a 3D film in post production. It's a lot more expensive to shoot a film in real 3D and as such many movies are shot with single camera setups but still shoot a scene with the right cues, angles, lighting, ect knowing that it will be properly transformed into a 3D effect. You can easily tell in these movies listed as "fake 3D" that it was framed and angled the way it was because the DP knew in post production they could add in the proper depth to get the 3D effect he wanted.

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post #11434 of 13831 Old 09-05-2015, 03:14 PM - Thread Starter
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regardless of being shot natively in 3D or post converted - the DP must have seen enough 3D movies with low APL scenes to know how boring and flat they appear. What they did worked and there is still some obvious depth in the 'night' scenes.

Seegs have you seen it yet on the 17K yet? It's a lovely day on the 30K. So much better than the terrible Real 3D presentation I saw. Sound was awful in this theater as well. Ruined the movie a bit now that I see how well it filmed and the sound track is a house mover.
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post #11435 of 13831 Old 09-05-2015, 03:19 PM
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I think their point is that adding 3D to a movie shot in 2D doesn't add any new information that you couldn't see in the original 2D version. You need to shoot the scene from multiple perspectives to actually capture any additional information.
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post #11436 of 13831 Old 09-05-2015, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
Seegs have you seen it yet on the 17K yet? It's a lovely day on the 30K. So much better than the terrible Real 3D presentation I saw.
It seems like we've gotten some good news from IFA, but still nothing that would retire your 17k. Too bad things haven't really moved forward there.

I know the images are smaller, but I wonder what you would think of 3D with an OLED. Have you gotten a chance to see that?

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post #11437 of 13831 Old 09-06-2015, 07:52 AM
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It seems like we've gotten some good news from IFA, but still nothing that would retire your 17k. Too bad things haven't really moved forward there.

I know the images are smaller, but I wonder what you would think of 3D with an OLED. Have you gotten a chance to see that?

Thanks,
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Darin -- I'm using Sony's OLED headset for some movies (I like the blacks and what appears to be a 140" screen but not the 720p resolution). Just about everything I watch is either in 3D or 2D converted to 3D by either my Teranex or PowerDVD15. I'm impressed with how OLED handles 3D -- ghosting is not an issue. The Teranex will destroy just about everything but DLP when it comes to ghosting and OLED seems to handle it very well. Ghosting may not be an issue with headsets since each eye has a separate screen -- which could be a major benefit for watching 3D with a headset. The one thing (complaint) I noticed with Sony's OLED is that it won't do absolute black -- very close but not quite there. Hopefully the new VR headsets (OLED) will do complete fades and come out of black properly.

I'm interested in VR and also using VR headsets for movies -- imagine watching a movie on what appears to be a huge OLED screen all for a fraction of the cost of a relatively small 77" OLED T.V.

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post #11438 of 13831 Old 09-06-2015, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
regardless of being shot natively in 3D or post converted - the DP must have seen enough 3D movies with low APL scenes to know how boring and flat they appear. What they did worked and there is still some obvious depth in the 'night' scenes.

Seegs have you seen it yet on the 17K yet? It's a lovely day on the 30K. So much better than the terrible Real 3D presentation I saw. Sound was awful in this theater as well. Ruined the movie a bit now that I see how well it filmed and the sound track is a house mover.
I haven't had a chance to check it out yet. Been busy all weekend. Maybe this evening or tomorrow.

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post #11439 of 13831 Old 09-06-2015, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
to keep from going OCD on the settings, I have a few reference movies I use that look great with my calibrations. If a new movie looks off, I just let it go and watch it anyway.

on the topic of directors intent - If you watch the new Mad Max movie, I thought they did a great job filming the night scenes. I think George Miller and team knew that dark muddy night scenes in 3D don't work so they went with a deep blue color scheme where you could still see plenty of detail and got the sense that it was night time. My guess is that they filmed in dusk lighting and used the color filters to give it the appearance of night.

Interestingly, they actually shot in daylight and *over* exposed, then did the color grading in post.

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post #11440 of 13831 Old 09-06-2015, 01:52 PM - Thread Starter
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thanks for the split screen. I think they did a great job with the 'night' scenes. it creates a sense of the haunting atmosphere in the post-apocalyptic world they are living in.


Darin - The only OLED 3D i've seen is with the Sony head gear, I also have the Zeiss Cinemizer OLED which I use for FPV quad flying. While much smaller than the HMZ gear, these are still not that comfortable to wear for extended periods of time. 3D is very good on these devices, nice and bright / no x-talk but the depth isn't quite the same as watching @ 15 feet from my 142" 16:9.

DV - Since the # 1 complaint for 3D was the glasses, how are these VR kits going to take off for genpop? The future generation of these VR glasses are going to have to be feather weight or it would be a non-starter for the majority of folks out there. If it ends up looking like the OR or these large apparatus that straps a cell phone to the face, i'm out.
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post #11441 of 13831 Old 09-07-2015, 12:38 PM
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I wish I knew every time I opened an expensive aged bottle of wine, whether it needed no decanting, 45 minutes or 3 hours. You know what's funny? When I do put a Blu Ray on and it doesn't look right, and I do start tweaking settings thinking something is wrong with my projector - that's when I find out the picture quality on the Blu Ray just sucks. Watch " Perks Of Being a Wallflower ". Night scenes look hideous to me. It's not the projector settings.
Oh definitely, some movies just aren't mastered to my liking, no matter how many settings I tweak. Those go right into the hand-me-down pile of movies and games that I pass along to friends and family. They definitely don't remain in my collection.

I just re-watched Judge Dredd in 3-D the other night. That movie is a rush and has some crazy good scenes that had me ducking bullets in my room!

All told though, I still long for a day where I no longer have to even think about display settings. Just bake in a bunch of sensors, cameras, and some fancy calibration software and let the display handle that task automagically.

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post #11442 of 13831 Old 09-08-2015, 02:29 PM
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Just saw this posted to Projector Review's Facebook Page:

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Originally Posted by Art
I just received an engineering sample of a single chip DLP projector for home theater to review. I'd love to tell you who's the manufacturer, but I'm on a non-disclosure agreement, until the projector is formally announced - probably at the CEDIA show. This is what I can tell you. This single chip DLP projector will sell for just under $10,000! And it's got a solid state light engine. It offers interchangeable lenses, a high contrast ratio, and should produce about 1000 lumens. It is targeted to the serious home theater enthusiast looking for a quality single chip DLP projector to take advantage of that DLP sharpness, that look and feel that has many folks swearing by DLP technology. Sorry, that's all I can share for now. And for you news hounds, no, this projector was not announced at IFA last week.
I wonder who the manufacturer is? My guess is Vivitek.

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post #11443 of 13831 Old 09-08-2015, 02:42 PM
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Just saw this posted to Projector Review's Facebook Page:



I wonder who the manufacturer is? My guess is Vivitek.
It doesn't mention resolution. Surely this isn't 1080p. It would need to be 4k with HDR.
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post #11444 of 13831 Old 09-08-2015, 02:59 PM
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It doesn't mention resolution. Surely this isn't 1080p. It would need to be 4k with HDR.
Wouldn't it have to be HD, since there aren't any 4k/UHD single-chip DLP chips yet?

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post #11445 of 13831 Old 09-08-2015, 03:04 PM
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Wouldn't it have to be HD, since there aren't any 4k/UHD single-chip DLP chips yet?

B.
Supposedly there is a consumer native 4K or UHD DMD coming. Though I doubt this unit will have both a solid state light source and a 4K DMD under $10000.

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post #11446 of 13831 Old 09-08-2015, 03:40 PM
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Supposedly there is a consumer native 4K or UHD DMD coming. Though I doubt this unit will have both a solid state light source and a 4K DMD under $10000.
Heck my LED LG PF1500 is listed for 1,000 lumens(puts out less calibrated of course) and was under $1000. I would think a 4k LED DLP is doable at that price point but not laser.
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post #11447 of 13831 Old 09-08-2015, 03:42 PM
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Heck my LED LG PF1500 is listed for 1,000 lumens(puts out less calibrated of course) and was under $1000. I would think a 4k LED DLP is doable at that price point but not laser.
But it's not high contrast, doesn't have good lens quality (or multiple lens options), or have "serious" picture quality that Art is saying this unit has. These all cost money through better hardware, better software and better R&D.

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post #11448 of 13831 Old 09-08-2015, 03:46 PM
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But it's not high contrast, doesn't have good lens quality (or multiple lens options), or have "serious" picture quality that Art is saying this unit has. These all cost money through better hardware, better software and better R&D.
The only thing I was talking about is the light source cost of LED.
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post #11449 of 13831 Old 09-08-2015, 03:51 PM - Thread Starter
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1000 lumens and high contrast... where have I heard that one before?

If it's only 1080P it will have to be something very special to demand that kind of $$ since others have tried in this area (single chip DLP , solid state) and not succeeded.
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post #11450 of 13831 Old 09-08-2015, 03:56 PM
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The only thing I was talking about is the light source cost of LED.
I don't know about a high contrast unit. To get the LEDs to dynamically dim you need a far more robust control module and power supply. This is why we don't see the LG PF1500 have dynamic contrast available to it. The control board and power supply are quite the basic affair. This is also why you still see a lot of color breakup with this unit too and not the more expensive LED units. The PF1500 would have cost quite a bit more if they incorporated just these two things. LEDs are great but if they can't work dynamically or refresh fast enough to reduce RBE then they don't really help a DLP projector imo.
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post #11451 of 13831 Old 09-08-2015, 03:57 PM
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I'd guess DPI. Sounds like their descriptions. Maybe Laser?
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post #11452 of 13831 Old 09-08-2015, 04:45 PM
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Supposedly there is a consumer native 4K or UHD DMD coming. Though I doubt this unit will have both a solid state light source and a 4K DMD under $10000.
Yeah, I was told CEDIA.

Sounds like someone is blowing smoke to me...

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post #11453 of 13831 Old 09-08-2015, 05:08 PM
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DV - Since the # 1 complaint for 3D was the glasses, how are these VR kits going to take off for genpop? The future generation of these VR glasses are going to have to be feather weight or it would be a non-starter for the majority of folks out there. If it ends up looking like the OR or these large apparatus that straps a cell phone to the face, i'm out.
It'll be interesting to see whether or not VR takes off -- I think there's a good chance and Facebook had better hope so too (having invested $2B in this stuff). If the headsets are light and comfortable (and supposedly they are) and the experience is really good (and from the little taste I've had it should be) then it could be the next big thing in entertainment and education.

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post #11454 of 13831 Old 09-08-2015, 06:48 PM
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Just saw this posted to Projector Review's Facebook Page:
I wonder who the manufacturer is? My guess is Vivitek.
I really, really want to be excited about that, my RS4910 is great, but my Planar 8150 is still my favorite projector. The Planar, and the other good DLPs I've had, just do everything well, do everything right, they're just lacking in contrast/black level compared to the state of the art. On the other hand, my RS4910 is really a one hit wonder, it's contrast is amazing, but everything else is just OK. As you say, they don't really do anything wrong, but the image just isn't as natural.

Unfortunately it sounds like just about every other high end LED projector that's come out for the past few years.

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1000 lumens and high contrast... where have I heard that one before?

If it's only 1080P it will have to be something very special to demand that kind of $$ since others have tried in this area (single chip DLP , solid state) and not succeeded.
If it's 1080p, but with HDMI 2.0a, HDCP 2.2, WCG and HDR, and actually has a substantial improvement in contrast over the best 0.95" models, it could be very interesting indeed. But that's a whole lota "ifs".

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It'll be interesting to see whether or not VR takes off -- I think there's a good chance and Facebook had better hope so too (having invested $2B in this stuff). If the headsets are light and comfortable (and supposedly they are) and the experience is really good (and from the little taste I've had it should be) then it could be the next big thing in entertainment and education.
I can definitely see it taking off for gaming, and other individual activities, but I just don't see it happening for movies. Though I can also see the line between "movie" and "game" bluring.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #11455 of 13831 Old 09-08-2015, 10:32 PM
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We kind of need a definition of high contrast. High ANSI or high on/off? I assume he means high on/off. Is it really high on/off or high in comparison to other DLPs? Of course, maybe it is the holy grail and uses the Brightside technology. Would anyone here pay $10k for a DLP with better than JVC on/off cr?

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post #11456 of 13831 Old 09-08-2015, 10:39 PM
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We kind of need a definition of high contrast. High ANSI or high on/off? I assume he means high on/off. Is it really high on/off or high in comparison to other DLPs? Of course, maybe it is the holy grail and uses the Brightside technology. Would anyone here pay $10k for a DLP with better than JVC on/off cr?
Yes, but it better not lose the high ANSI contrast advantage it already has.
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post #11457 of 13831 Old 09-08-2015, 10:48 PM - Thread Starter
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cine4home has some good close ups of the MPC processing changes on the X5000. It looks like they made some nice improvements here without looking overcooked.

Cine4home X5000 Preview



i'd like to hear more info on the high lamp fan noise mentioned in the preview.

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post #11458 of 13831 Old 09-08-2015, 11:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Unfortunately it sounds like just about every other high end LED projector that's come out for the past few years.

If it's 1080p, but with HDMI 2.0a, HDCP 2.2, WCG and HDR, and actually has a substantial improvement in contrast over the best 0.95" models, it could be very interesting indeed. But that's a whole lota "ifs".
the LED DLP's haven't made much progress in a while, hopefully this is something different and actually worth the 10K.

Can I add 3D to your wishlist above?
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post #11459 of 13831 Old 09-08-2015, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post
We kind of need a definition of high contrast. High ANSI or high on/off? I assume he means high on/off. Is it really high on/off or high in comparison to other DLPs? Of course, maybe it is the holy grail and uses the Brightside technology. Would anyone here pay $10k for a DLP with better than JVC on/off cr?
I would, specially if it has a long lasting light source.
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post #11460 of 13831 Old 09-09-2015, 05:59 AM
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Would anyone here pay $10k for a DLP with better than JVC on/off cr?
I would, in a heartbeat (well a heartbeat after I accumulated the cash ). In many ways, most ways I actually prefer the Planar 8150 to the JVC RS4910 (I've got both in my theater, well, did, that's a different thread), but it's really hard to ignore the obvious contrast advantage of the JVC. If there were a low-lag DLP with competitive native/sequential contrast, that would be the projector for me. Really all it would have to be is around the performance of the VW600.

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the LED DLP's haven't made much progress in a while, hopefully this is something different and actually worth the 10K.
Yeah, hopefully it's not like some other "$10K" solid state DLPs that have come out "recently".

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