Projector Mini-Shootout Thread - Page 385 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11521 of 14698 Old 09-12-2015, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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thank you guys, I am still trying to figure out how we got here from a discussion of a toy projector in the 70's...
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post #11522 of 14698 Old 09-12-2015, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
thank you guys, I am still trying to figure out how we got here from a discussion of a toy projector in the 70's...
This is when the silliness kicks in, while we waiting for some substantive info. E.g., will there be a Sony 1200 without a totally stratospheric price? and what will it offer?
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post #11523 of 14698 Old 09-12-2015, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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While waiting for the new projectors to arrive I was thinking about some audio upgrades.

I've been looking at this sub for a while

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/FV15HP.html

also thinking about an Atmos receiver. I currently have a Denon 4311 and Pioneer SC-68. It looks like Pioneer has a full UHD bandwidth HDMI chipset this year.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/AV-Receivers/Elite+Receivers/SC-99


  • Dolby Atmos
  • Full Bandwidth HDMI (4K UltraHD 60P/4:4:4) with HDCP 2.2
  • AIR Studios® Monitor Certifications
  • Built-in Wi-Fi® and Bluetooth®
  • Object-Based DTS:X® format available with firmware upgrade
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post #11524 of 14698 Old 09-12-2015, 03:02 PM
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The Anthem AVM 60 and MRX 1120 look pretty tasty. Though I don't think detailed specs have been released yet.
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post #11525 of 14698 Old 09-12-2015, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
While waiting for the new projectors to arrive I was thinking about some audio upgrades.

I've been looking at this sub for a while

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/FV15HP.html

...
I built a pair of dual 8" Rythmiks and they are amazing. Incredible for music.
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post #11526 of 14698 Old 09-13-2015, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
A professional athlete has a short career usually - injuries happen, any number of things.


We need rich people, so they can buy super high end home theater equipment, so that equipment will eventually trickle down to this forum price wise !
Yeah, I'll give athletes that much. Still doesn't rub me the right way though. But it will never change, so it is what it is. If all the money that goes towards sports every year was put towards science and technology, we'd already be colonizing mars...just sayin.

And rich people don't help drive prices down for us that much...a little, commercial installations drive prices down for residential consumers. I'd say 20% rich people, 80% commercial installations.

As others have said, we can get back on topic now, LOL! It is nice to get a little off topic from time-to-time though.

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post #11527 of 14698 Old 09-13-2015, 12:35 AM
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If you have kids, make them the center of your life. Be involved in everything they do. If your wife can be a stay at home mother, then do so. Get them interested in learning and feeling a responsibility for how they perform in school. Get them involved in sports or some other activities. Above all make sure they are respectful to others and encourage them to have a good heart. Too many kids I see these days, think they are entitled and that the rules do not apply to them. Raising good kids takes a lot of time, effort and love.
Amen to that brotha!

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post #11528 of 14698 Old 09-13-2015, 06:17 AM
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For those who haven't seen this, here's Art's Epson vs. JVC comparison. IMO, it's already dated since JVC seems to have addressed most of his concerns about UHD in its updated models.

http://www.projectorreviews.com/jvc/...ht-projectors/

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post #11529 of 14698 Old 09-13-2015, 10:11 AM - Thread Starter
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that comparison is definitely outdated comparing a 2 year old model, especially with no news of a v2.0 on the Epson for 2016.

As others have stated - Epson had a small window of opportunity to sneak in and grab some market share. With limited dealer release and a high cost for the laser, I don't see more than handful of owners here and on other HT sites as well. The new JVC's are going to quickly steal the thunder here - noticeably brighter + full HDMI + less expensive than the Epson.

I think folks eventually want the high powered Laser/LED solution, but not pay a 2x premium for the privilege.

If there is a VW1200 + laser, it's hard to think it will MSRP at the same price as the VW1100.
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post #11530 of 14698 Old 09-13-2015, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

If there is a VW1200 + laser, it's hard to think it will MSRP at the same price as the VW1100.
I thought the rumored price was 30-40K with 8K scaling? Nothing confirmed.


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post #11531 of 14698 Old 09-13-2015, 11:00 AM
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I thought the rumored price was 30-40K with 8K scaling? Nothing confirmed.
As I posted in the IFA thread, I am anticipating that the VW1100ES replacement will be around the same MSRP as the 1100. I am basing this on the assumption that the differences between the 520ES and the 1100ES replacement will be better lens (as was always the case between the 600 and 1100), support for full DCI/P3 (as has always been the case with the 1100), 18 Gbps HDMI and laser light source. So without the laser light source I think they'll have a hard time justifying the 2x price point just to be at the 1100ES MSRP. The laser light source seems to be the good differentiator there and in my mind could help them justify the 2x cost over the 520ES. This is just total speculation of course on my part. @zombie10k
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post #11532 of 14698 Old 09-13-2015, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
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If there is a VW1200 with a laser, the trick is going to be matching the current lumen output of 1700+ @ D65. The chassis is certainly large enough so hopefully they can come up with something more powerful than Epson did. 1000-1100 is certainly better than the LED counterparts - some claimed 1000 lumens but were really 700 calibrated and the cost was high on these considering they were 2D only.

LED is likely dead in the full size models but seems to be thriving with the portable models as I've been using my LG PF1500 daily for 5 months and love turning it on and off like a TV.

Part of me is glad that JVC did not move over the laser from their simulator models. It's doubtful they would have achieved the same brightness and the cost would likely have been much higher than the UHP counterparts.

With the news of the upcoming JVC's, I wonder how Epson will fair in the 2016 season unless they discount this model into the 4-4.5K range.
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post #11533 of 14698 Old 09-13-2015, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Part of me is glad that JVC did not move over the laser from their simulator models. It's doubtful they would have achieved the same brightness and the cost would likely have been much higher than the UHP counterparts.
That's pretty much how I feel about the JVC approach as well. I like getting much higher brightness for essentially the same cost as I've been paying for previous models. Although I came close to buying a Sony 4K when the JVC RS57 came out, in retrospect given how happy I am with how each JVC has performed I have a hard time seeing myself ever paying significantly more for a projector. It seems the mid-line JVC models tend to end up as close to the cutting edge as I need, at a doable price.
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post #11534 of 14698 Old 09-13-2015, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
If there is a VW1200 with a laser, the trick is going to be matching the current lumen output of 1700+ @ D65. The chassis is certainly large enough so hopefully they can come up with something more powerful than Epson did. 1000-1100 is certainly better than the LED counterparts - some claimed 1000 lumens but were really 700 calibrated and the cost was high on these considering they were 2D only...
Good point. My feeling is that Sony knows that they cannot take a step back in brightness with the VW1100, as it is used to power some of the largest screens in the market it serves. My guess is that they will at least meet and likely exceed the VW1100ES brightness, perhaps approaching 2,000 lumens.
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post #11535 of 14698 Old 09-14-2015, 08:38 AM
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that comparison is definitely outdated comparing a 2 year old model, especially with no news of a v2.0 on the Epson for 2016.

As others have stated - Epson had a small window of opportunity to sneak in and grab some market share. With limited dealer release and a high cost for the laser, I don't see more than handful of owners here and on other HT sites as well. The new JVC's are going to quickly steal the thunder here - noticeably brighter + full HDMI + less expensive than the Epson.

I think folks eventually want the high powered Laser/LED solution, but not pay a 2x premium for the privilege.

If there is a VW1200 + laser, it's hard to think it will MSRP at the same price as the VW1100.

JVC keeps improving their projectors while not really raising the pricing too much. We all want laser and 4K etc. - but projectors still need to be affordable for the majority of home theater enthusiasts to buy them. I think they are doing it right - I'm really excited to see these at Cedia.


Laser and true 4K will come - better that it comes to projectors when it can be closer to current price points.
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post #11536 of 14698 Old 09-14-2015, 09:33 AM
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JVC keeps improving their projectors while not really raising the pricing too much. We all want laser and 4K etc. - but projectors still need to be affordable for the majority of home theater enthusiasts to buy them. I think they are doing it right - I'm really excited to see these at Cedia.


Laser and true 4K will come - better that it comes to projectors when it can be closer to current price points.

Agreed, I think they are doing it right as well if one looks at the big picture and the reality. We also have to keep in mind even with UHD BD launching late this year or next year, there will not be tons of titles to watch anytime soon - or titles worth watching in terms of good movies.
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post #11537 of 14698 Old 09-15-2015, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
JVC keeps improving their projectors while not really raising the pricing too much. We all want laser and 4K etc. - but projectors still need to be affordable for the majority of home theater enthusiasts to buy them. I think they are doing it right - I'm really excited to see these at Cedia.

Laser and true 4K will come - better that it comes to projectors when it can be closer to current price points.
Quote:
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Agreed, I think they are doing it right as well if one looks at the big picture and the reality. We also have to keep in mind even with UHD BD launching late this year or next year, there will not be tons of titles to watch anytime soon - or titles worth watching in terms of good movies.
Indeed, timing and pricing are extremely important. But I would prefer my next projector be native 4K so it's "a bit" future proof and also to benefit from 4K scaling. I really want to see an affordable native 4K single-chip DLP, with an excellent lens and laser/LED light source...maybe by 2018.

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post #11538 of 14698 Old 09-15-2015, 01:28 PM
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It's amazing how good the picture looks at 120", eShift enabled, Darbee enabled at 80%. It blows my mind
You lost me right there.
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post #11539 of 14698 Old 09-15-2015, 01:28 PM
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I really want to see an affordable native 4K single-chip DLP, with an excellent lens and laser/LED light source...maybe by 2018.
I seriously doubt all of these things combined will be here at an affordable price by 2018. The lens quality will most likely never be good at what what most would consider an "affordable" price.

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post #11540 of 14698 Old 09-15-2015, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
JVC keeps improving their projectors while not really raising the pricing too much. We all want laser and 4K etc. - but projectors still need to be affordable for the majority of home theater enthusiasts to buy them. I think they are doing it right - I'm really excited to see these at Cedia.


Laser and true 4K will come - better that it comes to projectors when it can be closer to current price points.
I still think the decision of true 4K panels or eShift comes down to the market. I think JVC still sees that 4K content is scarce at best and that it won't justify the cost of the model or drive enough demand. I said a while ago that it would probably be a good 2-3 cycles still before it makes a lot of sense given the pace of software. This time next year will probably still be a trickle at best with the final specs and stuff finally sorted out and a better idea of which type of HDR different platforms are going to offer. 2017 at the earliest for what I would call anything close to a mainstream format, and that is only if things go well in the beginning.

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post #11541 of 14698 Old 09-15-2015, 01:45 PM
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You lost me right there.
Hahaha, that's only for gaming Kris. Those settings work really well on video games and animated BDs, but most definitely NOT for TV or non-animated BDs. The extra pop and crispness those settings add to the image while gaming is awesome...I love it!

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post #11542 of 14698 Old 09-15-2015, 01:57 PM
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I seriously doubt all of these things combined will be here at an affordable price by 2018. The lens quality will most likely never be good at what what most would consider an "affordable" price.
Yeah, I believe including a quality lens in order to really get all the benefits native 4K has to offer is going to be the biggest hurdle in producing affordable native 4K projectors. But if projector manufacturers want to remain relevant in today's 4K market push, then they had better get R&D on it...and fast. The majority of non-educated consumers out there are going to see 4K TVs for the same price as 2K projectors and guess what, they will buy the TV just because it's specs are higher on paper. The time for projector manufacturers to go all-in, is now. They may have to take a risk in the beginning and hope that selling 4K products priced lower over a longer period of time will increase sales. It's a niche market, but it has been growing. If they want to continue with the increased growth trend, they need to release affordable 4K models within the next couple years...that's why I say 2018.

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post #11543 of 14698 Old 09-15-2015, 09:06 PM
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I knew it was coming soon.

http://www.engadget.com/2015/09/15/8k-sharp-japan/

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post #11544 of 14698 Old 09-15-2015, 09:51 PM
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But it's only 85" (diagonal I presume).
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post #11545 of 14698 Old 09-15-2015, 10:15 PM - Thread Starter
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I was in Best Buy recently and took a look at some of the flagship TV's on the market.

There's no doubt the OLED's have remarkable blacks. After a closer look I see 3 problems. Outrageous pricing, high glare factor and I am on the fence with the curved screen - leaning towards not liking it.






They also had a Sharp 80" LCD there, we have a 1/2 dozen of these at work. At the end of the day, these look small compared to my 142" 16:9 and wish I had even more room for a larger screen.

I certainly wouldn't mind having one of these in the living room but not for $7K+.

When are we going to get OLED PC monitors? I've had money ready to spend on this for a long time, it seems like there would be a market for it.

Last edited by zombie10k; 09-15-2015 at 10:25 PM.
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post #11546 of 14698 Old 09-16-2015, 03:42 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
While waiting for the new projectors to arrive I was thinking about some audio upgrades.

I've been looking at this sub for a while

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/FV15HP.html
http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/THT.html

You're welcome!
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post #11547 of 14698 Old 09-16-2015, 07:00 AM
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Eh, I'd build out a cinema f-20 before the THT. That's just me though I had two of them previously...incredible performance for the price.

Speaking of, Zombie, you do enough around here and have helped enough guys out that I would venture a guess that someone near you would likely build you out an incredible DIY project if you just asked. Where are you located btw? If I'm close enough, I'll even volunteer.
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post #11548 of 14698 Old 09-16-2015, 07:05 AM
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Eh, I'd build out a cinema f-20 before the THT. That's just me though I had two of them previously...incredible performance for the price.
What are the advantages, besides a smaller footprint?
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post #11549 of 14698 Old 09-16-2015, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I was in Best Buy recently and took a look at some of the flagship TV's on the market.

There's no doubt the OLED's have remarkable blacks. After a closer look I see 3 problems. Outrageous pricing, high glare factor and I am on the fence with the curved screen - leaning towards not liking it.






They also had a Sharp 80" LCD there, we have a 1/2 dozen of these at work. At the end of the day, these look small compared to my 142" 16:9 and wish I had even more room for a larger screen.

I certainly wouldn't mind having one of these in the living room but not for $7K+.

When are we going to get OLED PC monitors? I've had money ready to spend on this for a long time, it seems like there would be a market for it.


I have been shopping for a new TV for my mother and was to shocked just how small they look. Not sure there is a TV so good it trumps size. Also don't like the curve so much but still the blacks on OLEDs are compelling. I would be all over a PC OLED monitor.

It's always in the last place you look.
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post #11550 of 14698 Old 09-16-2015, 07:16 AM
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What are the advantages, besides a smaller footprint?
Well first off, if I did the THT it would be the 36" wide model which gets better extension than its thinner counterpart. The f-20 has even more extension, clean to 20hz or slightly below. You can conceivably set a high pass filter on the f-20 at around 15-18hz and be fine with it there. LilMike, the designer of the f-20 really hit it out of the part from a performance standpoint with the f-20. Its still a pretty darn large subwoofer, but puts you in another league compared to other little commercial offerings...
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