Projector Mini-Shootout Thread - Page 388 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 09-18-2015, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by kwk2293 View Post
Np id think about buying this to replace my benqw7000 but im pretty sure it wont work in my setup

I had a Benqw7000, it was a nice projector.

It's always in the last place you look.
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Old 09-18-2015, 04:33 PM
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I had a Benqw7000, it was a nice projector.
ya it is but i dont like the dlplink 3d glasses i have to use in 3d
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Old 09-18-2015, 05:43 PM
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Commodore SX-64 'Executive' - insane price in early 80's but it was considered one of the first color portable PC's. and the Compaq portable with the amber screen + 10 MB (Megabyte) hard drive. It still works and fires up DOS 2.1.




Nice. Do you have a Wordstar copy somewhere?
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Old 09-18-2015, 09:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Willie View Post

Nice. Do you have a Wordstar copy somewhere?
I'll have to look through my collection. I do have a working copy of Wordperfect 3.0 than runs on dos 2.x..


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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
That little pocket PC with a 64 GB micro installed looks like the perfect solution to the most minimalist of HTPC approaches. NICE! Have you experimented having it on an AVR and running constantly?
yes I have it plugged into one of the inputs on my Denon 4311 for testing. Some folks figured out how to get Media Center installed on Windows 10 so I'm going to experiment with it as a replacement extender vs. using my Xbox 360's. My main HTPC is running MCE 7 + a quad tuner ceton card.



For those interested, the ultra short throw LG PF1000U has been released. Newegg.com is selling it for MSRP $1399 but expect we'll see some discounts on it in a few weeks.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824025201



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Old 09-18-2015, 09:59 PM
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Has anyone seen the white SI Maestro acoustically transparent screen? Impressions?
Yes, if I recall, it has a little tighter weave than XD. Throws a nice image, but you do need to have 10' or more viewing distance.

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Old 09-18-2015, 10:18 PM
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I'll have to look through my collection. I do have a working copy of Wordperfect 3.0 than runs on dos 2.x..




yes I have it plugged into one of the inputs on my Denon 4311 for testing. Some folks figured out how to get Media Center installed on Windows 10 so I'm going to experiment with it as a replacement extender vs. using my Xbox 360's. My main HTPC is running MCE 7 + a quad tuner ceton card.



For those interested, the ultra short throw LG PF1000U has been released. Newegg.com is selling it for MSRP $1399 but expect we'll see some discounts on it in a few weeks.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824025201



Jason, do you think it'll get below $1k anytime soon?

If so, I might pick one up for a mini screen shootout I want to do.

Would be interesting to see how a ST projector works compared to a JVC 6710 and Sharp XV-Z30k I have, with some different materials in a living room environment with different lighting conditions.
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Old 09-18-2015, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post
I had a sample of the SI Slate 1.2 here a while a go and I can confirm it sparkles like crazy, I would never consider the Slate 1.2.
What was your throwing distance? Was it >= 1.5 screen width as required for Slate material? I have not seen one but I would expect that when used properly it should work properly otherwise it's hard to see why people would buy "crazy sparkling" screens when there are plenty of cheaper alternatives.

Last edited by liloatavs; 09-18-2015 at 10:29 PM.
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Old 09-18-2015, 10:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by biliam1982 View Post
Jason, do you think it'll get below $1k anytime soon?

If so, I might pick one up for a mini screen shootout I want to do.

Would be interesting to see how a ST projector works compared to a JVC 6710 and Sharp XV-Z30k I have, with some different materials in a living room environment with different lighting conditions.
my guess is we'll see it close to 1k near the holidays. A fellow member just bought one in the under 3k forum so we'll hear some feedback soon.

2015 is the year of the 3 projector setup. JVC for 2D BD, Sharp for 3D, LG LED for TV
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Old 09-18-2015, 11:40 PM
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my guess is we'll see it close to 1k near the holidays. A fellow member just bought one in the under 3k forum so we'll hear some feedback soon.
Well, going off the PF1500, it looks to be only ~$60 less than MSRP.

Hopefully the ST version won't follow suit in that pricing reduction for street and be much more!

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2015 is the year of the 3 projector setup. JVC for 2D BD, Sharp for 3D, LG LED for TV
I got the JVC and Sharp. Now I just need the LG!
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Old 09-19-2015, 02:02 AM
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What was your throwing distance? Was it >= 1.5 screen width as required for Slate material? I have not seen one but I would expect that when used properly it should work properly otherwise it's hard to see why people would buy "crazy sparkling" screens when there are plenty of cheaper alternatives.
Throw distance does not affect the sparckle it affects hotspotting and with a 30" sample I can not judge if it had that.

Many people buy Black DIamond 1.4 and are very happy with it. I have tested a 120" with a throw distance of about 2.0 screen with and it had very much sparkle (same as Slate 1.2 or maybe more, but it is a couple of years since I saw it) and easily seen hotspotting, so your argument of you find it hard to see why people would buy "crazy sparkling" screens does not hold up.

A screen like the dnp Supernova 08-85 has a slight sparkle and you need to look for it to see it (I own a 100"), but it is only 0.8 gain so it is quite dim. I also have a 133" 2.35:1 SI Pure White 1.3 and it also has a slight sparkle you need to look for (and some other artifacts) so I am going to buy a Stewart Studiotek 100 next time and not buy a new screen for a long time after that. The sparkle in the Supernova and Pure White screens are not very noticeable and I can live with it, but on the BD 1.4 and Slate 1.2 I see it all the time and I could not live with it. Others might think it is minor and live with it.
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Old 09-19-2015, 09:17 AM
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Throw distance does not affect the sparckle it affects hotspotting and with a 30" sample I can not judge if it had that.

Many people buy Black DIamond 1.4 and are very happy with it. I have tested a 120" with a throw distance of about 2.0 screen with and it had very much sparkle (same as Slate 1.2 or maybe more, but it is a couple of years since I saw it) and easily seen hotspotting, so your argument of you find it hard to see why people would buy "crazy sparkling" screens does not hold up.

A screen like the dnp Supernova 08-85 has a slight sparkle and you need to look for it to see it (I own a 100"), but it is only 0.8 gain so it is quite dim. I also have a 133" 2.35:1 SI Pure White 1.3 and it also has a slight sparkle you need to look for (and some other artifacts) so I am going to buy a Stewart Studiotek 100 next time and not buy a new screen for a long time after that. The sparkle in the Supernova and Pure White screens are not very noticeable and I can live with it, but on the BD 1.4 and Slate 1.2 I see it all the time and I could not live with it. Others might think it is minor and live with it.
Thanks for detailed reply. I have no experience with projectors. I am in the process of buying one and I need to select a screen for a media room that is fully light controlled but has white ceiling and light walls. As I understand in this case I need some ambient light rejection and Slate seems like a reasonable option. SI Pure White and Stewart Studiotek 100 do not offer any ambient light resistance. So the sparkling and hot-spotting obviously is a trade-off one might have to make depending on the room characteristics. As you said DNP Supernova 08-85 is only 0.8 gain (I want something brighter) and the screen size is limited to 120" (I want closer to 130" for 2.35:1 screen). So, if one does not have a perfect room one does not get a perfect picture
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Old 09-19-2015, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by liloatavs View Post
Thanks for detailed reply. I have no experience with projectors. I am in the process of buying one and I need to select a screen for a media room that is fully light controlled but has white ceiling and light walls. As I understand in this case I need some ambient light rejection and Slate seems like a reasonable option. SI Pure White and Stewart Studiotek 100 do not offer any ambient light resistance. So the sparkling and hot-spotting obviously is a trade-off one might have to make depending on the room characteristics. As you said DNP Supernova 08-85 is only 0.8 gain (I want something brighter) and the screen size is limited to 120" (I want closer to 130" for 2.35:1 screen). So, if one does not have a perfect room one does not get a perfect picture
DNP does make a higher gain screen with far less sparkling than the SI Black Diamond materials. I honestly don't think people realize the difference in sparkle between BD materials and other ambient light rejecting screens. If it were still available I'd recommend the DaLite High Contrast High Power material. Much better than the BD materials as well. Hopefully DaLite will get this material back in stock.
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Old 09-19-2015, 10:02 AM
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DNP does make a higher gain screen with far less sparkling than the SI Black Diamond materials. I honestly don't think people realize the difference in sparkle between BD materials and other ambient light rejecting screens.
Agreed. Their low gain screen actually uses a ton of gain so it's texture is extremely pronounced to my eyes.
But the worst SI demo I ever saw was a higher gain screen for ambient light (higher than their 1.4 as I remember), at a show. (I seem to remember it was recommended for 3D in particular). The screen texture was so bad, like dirty speckly water over the screen, I literally had trouble trying to "see through it" to the image, in terms of being able to just take in the image.

But as usual, there are trade-offs everywhere in projection, SI offers some great solutions to some ambient light problems, and I'd never use my own criteria to judge another person's who may have different requirements and different sensitivities. (For instance, I was terribly allergic to the off-axis performance of the HP screens, but many HP users say "what are you talking about, that isn't an issue for me," so if they'd gone on what bothered me they wouldn't have chosen a screen they are ultimately super happy with. Which is why we always say here that, especially with screens, see them for yourself whenever possible).
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Old 09-19-2015, 12:33 PM
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Maybe the next version of Optoma's LED projector (the one after the HD91+) will be worth purchasing. Here's a review of the HD91+.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/optoma-hd91-plus-review
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Old 09-19-2015, 12:36 PM
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Thanks for detailed reply. I have no experience with projectors. I am in the process of buying one and I need to select a screen for a media room that is fully light controlled but has white ceiling and light walls. As I understand in this case I need some ambient light rejection and Slate seems like a reasonable option. SI Pure White and Stewart Studiotek 100 do not offer any ambient light resistance. So the sparkling and hot-spotting obviously is a trade-off one might have to make depending on the room characteristics. As you said DNP Supernova 08-85 is only 0.8 gain (I want something brighter) and the screen size is limited to 120" (I want closer to 130" for 2.35:1 screen). So, if one does not have a perfect room one does not get a perfect picture
Yes, DNP also has a 2.3 gain screen (I have the 120" 16:9 version paired with my JVC X700 and I love it). Does it sparkle? Yes, it does, but it's not nearly as noticeable as other ALR screens (I presume this is due to one or more of the top layers working some magic).

You can order custom sizes from DNP, just give them a call, or shoot their US contact an email.

Another option is EPV DarkStar. It's the only other ALR material that I've seen (and I've seen most) that I could live with.

DNP 08-85 (.8 gain)
DNP 23-23 or HG23 (2.3 gain)
EPV DarkStar 9 (.9 gain)
EPV DarkStar (1.4 gain)

All of those are good choices, depending on what projector you have. If you have a dimmer projector then get the 1.4 or 2.3 gain material. If you have a brighter projector, go with the .8 or .9, or even the 1.4 gain material. The DarkStar 1.4 gain is a good medium point for giving you a little extra brightness and retaining black levels well.

Just make sure you can accommodate a throw distance of 1.8:1 for both DNP & EPV, else you run the risk of hotspotting.

Also, if you need extremely wide viewing angles, that will need to be taken into consideration as well. There's quite a few factors to think about, and there's no single screen/projector combo that will do it all the best. You really need at least 2 projectors and 2 screens for the best daytime and nighttime viewing, but that's impractical for most.

If I could do it all over again, I would probably just get a cheap bright DLP such as the BenQ HT1075 and a DNP .8 or DarkStar .9 or 1.4 and call it a day. Just get the projector first, and request some screen samples and see what looks best to you, in your viewing environment. That's the best advice one can really give. You need to see it with your own two eyes before making a blind purchase based on others recommendations, as there's just too many variables involved.

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Old 09-19-2015, 12:40 PM
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Maybe the next version of Optoma's LED projector (the one after the HD91+) will be worth purchasing. Here's a review of the HD91+.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/optoma-hd91-plus-review
You know Optoma has a bad DI implementation when a reviewer takes up the better part of an entire page to talk about it. Optoma has no excuse. They've had the better part of a decade to figure out what most other companies have done years ago,

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Old 09-19-2015, 01:26 PM
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Agreed. Their low gain screen actually uses a ton of gain so it's texture is extremely pronounced to my eyes.
But the worst SI demo I ever saw was a higher gain screen for ambient light (higher than their 1.4 as I remember), at a show. (I seem to remember it was recommended for 3D in particular). The screen texture was so bad, like dirty speckly water over the screen, I literally had trouble trying to "see through it" to the image, in terms of being able to just take in the image.

Not sure if it was the same screen, but perhaps so as I saw one of their screens on demo at Best Buy- Magnolia as that "dirty speckly water over the screen" look was so bad, I would have to stick to an 80" LED flat panel before watching anything on something like that.


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Old 09-19-2015, 04:09 PM
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Yes, if I recall, it has a little tighter weave than XD. Throws a nice image, but you do need to have 10' or more viewing distance.
Is the weave on the SI Maestro is more or less noticeable compared to the XD? I should have a sample of it soon and look forward to testing its acoustical properties and gain compared to the XD. Will report back.
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Old 09-19-2015, 07:02 PM
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3D Glasses for JVC 6710

@Mike Garrett ; Just sent you an email. Looks like the 2 pairs of 3D glasses that came with the projector were busted. The left lens on both were shattered. Must have been the shipping or possibly the packaging?

@zombie10k ; or anyone else; While I'm waiting on those to be replaced, what's the best 3D glasses to get?
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Old 09-19-2015, 07:20 PM
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@Mike Garrett ; Just sent you an email. Looks like the 2 pairs of 3D glasses that came with the projector were busted. The left lens on both were shattered. Must have been the shipping or possibly the packaging?

@zombie10k ; or anyone else; While I'm waiting on those to be replaced, what's the best 3D glasses to get?
The glasses that JVC uses with the stock emitter are special, in that, they are horizontally polarized to match the DiLA panels inside the projector. Most 3D glasses out there are vertically polarized. If you don't want to replace the glasses with stock JVC glasses (which can be expensive), XPand makes horizontally polarized glasses to be used specifically with JVC units. In fact, I think Xpand is the company who manufacturers JVC's stock glasses.

With that said, vertically polarized glasses will still work with your JVC, it's just that they don't work quite as well and the horizontally polarized glasses will give a better "3D effect" or at least that's how the experience between using both types of glasses has been described by those who've compared the two on a JVC projector.

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Old 09-19-2015, 07:33 PM
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The glasses that JVC uses with the stock emitter are special, in that, they are horizontally polarized to match the DiLA panels inside the projector. Most 3D glasses out there are vertically polarized. If you don't want to replace the glasses with stock JVC glasses (which can be expensive), XPand makes horizontally polarized glasses to be used specifically with JVC units. In fact, I think Xpand is the company who manufacturers JVC's stock glasses.

With that said, vertically polarized glasses will still work with your JVC, it's just that they don't work quite as well and the horizontally polarized glasses will give a better "3D effect" or at least that's how the experience between using both types of glasses has been described by those who've compared the two on a JVC projector.
Doesnt this depend on the screen that u use from what i understand if screen doesnt hold polarity either will work the same
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Old 09-19-2015, 07:37 PM
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Doesnt this depend on the screen that u use from what i understand if screen doesnt hold polarity either will work the same
With active 3D, I don't think you need a screen that holds polarity. I'm pretty sure this is only needed for passive 3D.

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Old 09-19-2015, 07:43 PM
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With active 3D, I don't think you need a screen that holds polarity. I'm pretty sure this is only needed for passive 3D.
What i was trying to say is if a screen doesnt hold polarity the aftermarket xpand glasses should work the same as jvc glasses
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Old 09-19-2015, 07:46 PM
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What i was trying to say is if a screen doesnt hold polarity the aftermarket xpand glasses should work the same as jvc glasses
There's a lengthy discussion about it here:

Consensus best 3D glasses / emitter for JVCs?

Apparently if you change the orientation of vertical polarized glasses 90 degrees you can make out the difference between the two implementations and it's a visible one. Horizontal polarization is the way to go if you want the best "3D effect" with JVC projectors. I was like you and didn't think it mattered but from people who've tested both out say it does make a difference.

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Old 09-19-2015, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
There's a lengthy discussion about it here:

Consensus best 3D glasses / emitter for JVCs?

Apparently if you change the orientation of vertical polarized glasses 90 degrees you can make out the difference between the two implementations and it's a visible one. Horizontal polarization is the way to go if you want the best "3D effect" with JVC projectors. I was like you and didn't think it mattered but from people who've tested both out say it does make a difference.
I use the regular expand glasses the next time i watch 3d I'll try flipping them but from what i understand the only way this will make a difference is if screen holds polarity which mine dont
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Old 09-19-2015, 08:06 PM
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@Mike Garrett ; Just sent you an email. Looks like the 2 pairs of 3D glasses that came with the projector were busted. The left lens on both were shattered. Must have been the shipping or possibly the packaging?

@zombie10k ; or anyone else; While I'm waiting on those to be replaced, what's the best 3D glasses to get?
Got your email. I will get you replacements. Sorry about the damage.

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Old 09-19-2015, 08:47 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a set of the JVC glasses that ship with the 6710, they look basically the same on the HP vs. the Xpand RF glasses I have here that are not horizontally aligned. we know the HP doesn't retain any polarization but 3D effect to me seems identical.

it's hard to believe these are still available for so cheap, they ship with the RF emitter as well. 100% compatible with the JVC.

http://www.amazon.com/EX105BT-Shutte.../dp/B009ZW7SR2

i'm not crazy about these xpand (jvc) glasses, they are a bit too tight near the ears and could use larger lenses. Sharp G20's are still the benchmark by a long shot compared to just about every set of glasses I've had here.
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Old 09-19-2015, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I have a set of the JVC glasses that ship with the 6710, they look basically the same on the HP vs. the Xpand RF glasses I have here that are not horizontally aligned. we know the HP doesn't retain any polarization but 3D effect to me seems identical.

it's hard to believe these are still available for so cheap, they ship with the RF emitter as well. 100% compatible with the JVC.

http://www.amazon.com/EX105BT-Shutte.../dp/B009ZW7SR2

i'm not crazy about these xpand (jvc) glasses, they are a bit too tight near the ears and could use larger lenses. Sharp G20's are still the benchmark by a long shot compared to just about every set of glasses I've had here.
Can these be used with the rF estar glasses? These are really inexpensive but I need to know if I can use both at the same time.
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Old 09-19-2015, 10:33 PM
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The glasses that JVC uses with the stock emitter are special, in that, they are horizontally polarized to match the DiLA panels inside the projector. Most 3D glasses out there are vertically polarized. If you don't want to replace the glasses with stock JVC glasses (which can be expensive), XPand makes horizontally polarized glasses to be used specifically with JVC units. In fact, I think Xpand is the company who manufacturers JVC's stock glasses.

With that said, vertically polarized glasses will still work with your JVC, it's just that they don't work quite as well and the horizontally polarized glasses will give a better "3D effect" or at least that's how the experience between using both types of glasses has been described by those who've compared the two on a JVC projector.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I have a set of the JVC glasses that ship with the 6710, they look basically the same on the HP vs. the Xpand RF glasses I have here that are not horizontally aligned. we know the HP doesn't retain any polarization but 3D effect to me seems identical.

it's hard to believe these are still available for so cheap, they ship with the RF emitter as well. 100% compatible with the JVC.

http://www.amazon.com/EX105BT-Shutte.../dp/B009ZW7SR2

i'm not crazy about these xpand (jvc) glasses, they are a bit too tight near the ears and could use larger lenses. Sharp G20's are still the benchmark by a long shot compared to just about every set of glasses I've had here.

What about the XPAND X105-RF-X1? Are those the same? Are they horizontally aligned? Can I use them with the JVC's emitter or do you have to use theirs? And if you have to use theirs, would the JVC glasses work on it?

It also looks like the Mitsubishi X105BT might be the same model but a few buck cheaper.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ls?ie=UTF8&me=
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Old 09-19-2015, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by biliam1982 View Post
What about the XPAND X105-RF-X1? Are those the same? Are they horizontally aligned? Can I use them with the JVC's emitter or do you have to use theirs? And if you have to use theirs, would the JVC glasses work on it?

It also looks like the Mitsubishi X105BT might be the same model but a few buck cheaper.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ls?ie=UTF8&me=
This is the horizontally polarized Xpand gear that I use with my JVC X700 & DNP 23-23:
- 3-D Emitter: Xpand AD025-RF-X1
- 3-D Glasses: Xpand X105-RF-X3 (horizontally polarized)

Respectfully,
Mr. Hatcher

Mr. Hatcher's hybrid-HT
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