Projector Mini-Shootout Thread - Page 391 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 09-24-2015, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by thezaks View Post
Great points and thoughts! I agree - the DNP has a smoother drop off than other ALR screens, especially the Black Diamond. And, the 08-85 DNP and the .9 DarkStar are similar to the ML F3, in that there is not any drop off - although, they are dim from the start.

The claim is 65% ambient light reduction for the F3 screen, and then 85% for the F2. That puts the F2 up there with the Black Diamond. I agree that the F3 is definitely a Silver looking screen, and I think it rejects light the best from the top.

So, a question on the ST100. Would the ST100 only be for a blacked out room? I have a room with tan walls and a white ceiling, which is why I'm looking for an ambient light screen. For some reason, I'm really attracted to the enhanced contrast provided by ALR screens vs white screens, although, I realize it's at the expense of some artifacts.

I've seen both the DarkStar .9 and 1.4 screens in person at Elite Screens (in California), but they were using a 6000 lumen projector on them. Since I'm not in the market for that kind of projector, I still wonder what those screens would look like with a JVC or Sony projector.

Dave
ST100 is only recommended for a blacked out HT room as it's a Lambertian diffuser, meaning that light will reflect evenly off of its surface in every direction. Viewing angle has no effect on picture quality with this screen. But I believe it would work just fine in a room where just the first 3' of the screen area is blacked out, lights off of course. Any grey screen (ALR or non-ALR) will have better black levels than a white screen in a room that isn't totally blacked out, due to room reflections.

IMO, the best ALR screen for lights on viewing would be DNP Supernova .8 or EPV DarkStar .9 paired with a really bright projector (projector brightness dependent on screen size and amount of ambient light present).

That's why I believe a dark grey ALR screen with a gain of 1.4-1.8 hits the sweet spot for pairing with a projector that achieves between 1200-2000 lumens, in a dark and bright room. It's not going to be the best at either one scenario, but it will be the best able to handle both situations as a single-projector single-screen combo.

If we want the best image possible for lights on and off with two-piece front projection, that requires one or two projectors paired with two screens (one white for lights off, one dark grey for lights on), assuming the room is very neutral or dark in it's color scheme.

The absolute best setup for a non-ideal room is rear-projection. But that requires a dead space behind the screen wall and is quite expensive due to the mirror mount and it requires a brighter projector. And a big hole to be cut in the wall.
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Old 09-24-2015, 05:17 PM
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IMO, the best ALR screen for lights on viewing would be DNP Supernova .8 or EPV DarkStar .9 paired with a really bright projector (projector brightness dependent on screen size and amount of ambient light present).

That's why I believe a dark grey ALR screen with a gain of 1.4-1.8 hits the sweet spot for pairing with a projector that achieves between 1200-2000 lumens, in a dark and bright room. It's not going to be the best at either one scenario, but it will be the best able to handle both situations as a single-projector single-screen combo.
What do you think about the scenario of a room that utilizes a flat panel for daytime, but a projector/screen for evening/night, in a non-optimized room? Let's say a JVC X5000 or X7000 projector. Which screen do you think?

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Old 09-24-2015, 05:43 PM
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What do you think about the scenario of a room that utilizes a flat panel for daytime, but a projector/screen for evening/night, in a non-optimized room? Let's say a JVC X5000 or X7000 projector. Which screen do you think?

Dave
I would be able to better answer that question if I could see a picture of your screening room, but it sounds like your room is a little more susceptible to reflectance than mine, as you have tan walls and a white ceiling. And this is assuming the new JVCs are actually ~400 lumens brighter.

</=100": DNP Supernova .8 or EPV DarkStar .9
=/>100": EPV DarkStar 1.4 at this moment, but I can't say with certainty until after my review.

When my JVC X700 has a fresh lamp in it, I have to keep it on low lamp and keep the manual iris set at -10 to -12 else my DNP 2.3 screen makes the image so bright it looks like a giant LED/LCD hanging on the wall at Best Buy, LOL! But, that allows me to squeeze a lot more hours out of my lamp. I'm at close to 3500 hours on my lamp now, and it's still super bright. But this is at the expense of perceived black with ambient light in the room. DNP 2.3 is a silver color, not dark grey, so it doesn't do black as good as EPV DarkStar .9 or 1.4 or DNP .8, but it's really bright! So if I got a EPV DarkStar 1.4, I would have better perceived black with ambient light in the room, but I would go thru lamps faster because the screen would not enhance brightness as much. Always a trade-off...

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Old 09-24-2015, 05:50 PM
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I would be able to better answer that question if I could see a picture of your screening room, but it sounds like your room is a little more susceptible to reflectance than mine, as you have tan walls and a white ceiling. And this is assuming the new JVCs are actually ~400 lumens brighter.

</=100": DNP Supernova .8 or EPV DarkStar .9
=/>100": EPV DarkStar 1.4 at this moment, but I can't say with certainty until after my review.

When my JVC X700 has a fresh lamp in it, I have to keep it on low lamp and keep the manual iris set at -10 to -12 else my DNP 2.3 screen makes the image so bright, it looks like a giant LED/LCD hanging on the wall at Best Buy, LOL! But, that allows me to squeeze a lot more hours out of my lamp. I'm at close to 3500 hours on my lamp now, and it's still super bright. But this is at the expense of perceived black with ambient light in the room. DNP 2.3 is a silver color, not dark grey, so it doesn't do black as good as EPV DarkStar .9 or 1.4 or DNP .8, but it's really bright! So if I got a EPV DarkStar 1.4, I would have better perceived black with ambient light in the room, but I would go thru lamps faster because the screen would not enhance brightness as much. Always a trade-off...
Yeah, I thought a Darkstar 1.4, for a 110" screen size, would be really nice. If only they would come out with the motorized version, so that I could have a flat panel for daytime and DS 1.4 + JVC for evening night! BTW, looking forward to your review!

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Old 09-24-2015, 06:06 PM
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Yeah, I thought a Darkstar 1.4, for a 110" screen size, would be really nice. If only they would come out with the motorized version, so that I could have a flat panel for daytime and DS 1.4 + JVC for evening night! BTW, looking forward to your review!

Dave
Yup, I'm kind of in the same boat. I just emailed EPV customer service yesterday inquiring (again) as to when the eFinity series DarkStar 1.4 would be available, but I haven't heard anything back yet. I just prefer that bezel-less look. And it has an optional LED edge surround kit for it that would be pretty slick looking, like what SI has been doing with their Zero Edge screens.

Speaking of SI, if their screen material was on par with DNP & EPV, that would be amazing because their marketing and customer service is top notch. They are awesome people to deal with, but I've only seen one screen I would consider purchasing from them at this point, and it's a white screen (Pure White 1.3) which isn't what they're really known for, LOL!

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Old 09-24-2015, 06:11 PM
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Speaking of SI, if their screen material was on par with DNP & EPV, that would be amazing because their marketing and customer service is top notch. They are awesome people to deal with, but I've only seen one screen I would consider purchasing from them at this point, and it's a white screen (Pure White 1.3) which isn't what they're really known for, LOL!
I agree! In fact, speaking of SI, someone on one of the forums mentioned that they have some sort of innovative new product that they will introduce at CEDIA.

https://www.screeninnovations.com/ne...si-cedia-2015/

Here's the quote:

"The heart and soul of SI is to provide innovative products that solve real-world problems. Our drive to innovate is pushing us to RE-VEAL something truly RE-VOLUTIONARY to the two-piece projection industry this year at CEDIA. We invite you to come get the true big screen experience – Booth #5735."

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Old 09-24-2015, 06:57 PM
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I agree! In fact, speaking of SI, someone on one of the forums mentioned that they have some sort of innovative new product that they will introduce at CEDIA.

https://www.screeninnovations.com/ne...si-cedia-2015/

Here's the quote:

"The heart and soul of SI is to provide innovative products that solve real-world problems. Our drive to innovate is pushing us to RE-VEAL something truly RE-VOLUTIONARY to the two-piece projection industry this year at CEDIA. We invite you to come get the true big screen experience – Booth #5735."

Dave
Hahaha, good timing! I swear though, if it's another "Revolutionary" Black Diamond or Slate sparkle monster, I may take my best screen samples and drive to their headquarters and show them what a good screen looks like. Honestly though, they really need a couple good quality ALR screen materials, cause I really dig their brand. I don't expect miracles, but at least get in my top 3 list...geeze.

Dang, now I gotta postpone my review until I can get a sample of that and this Dark Energy Abyss material Mississippi Man is about to release.
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Old 09-24-2015, 07:39 PM
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Hahaha, good timing! I swear though, if it's anther "Revolutionary" Black Diamond or Slate sparkle monster, I may take my best screen samples and drive to their headquarters and show them what a good screen looks like. Honestly though, they really need a couple good quality ALR screen materials, cause I really dig their brand. I don't expect miracles, but at least get in my top 3 list...geeze.

Dang, now I gotta postpone my review until I can get a sample of that and this Dark Energy Abyss material Mississippi Man is about to release.

I agree - it would be really cool if they had a BD-like material with a little better angles and less artifacts. I too am waiting to find out about the Dark Energy Abyss material. M'Man has been doing the paint stuff for years, and I'm betting it's a really decent material. Perhaps your review will happily coincide with the first user reviews of the JVC and Sony projectors. That way, I can get the whole picture.


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Old 09-24-2015, 07:55 PM
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I agree - it would be really cool if they had a BD-like material with a little better angles and less artifacts. I too am waiting to find out about the Dark Energy Abyss material. M'Man has been doing the paint stuff for years, and I'm betting it's a really decent material. Perhaps your review will happily coincide with the first user reviews of the JVC and Sony projectors. That way, I can get the whole picture.


Dave
We should know what we're spending our hard earned money on before Christmas, hopefully. I'm just waiting on my friend to come visit from Jacksonville with his DSLR and tripod. I have everything else I need to get started.

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Old 09-25-2015, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by thezaks View Post
What do you think about the scenario of a room that utilizes a flat panel for daytime, but a projector/screen for evening/night, in a non-optimized room? Let's say a JVC X5000 or X7000 projector. Which screen do you think?

Dave
Quote:
Originally Posted by thezaks View Post
Yeah, I thought a Darkstar 1.4, for a 110" screen size, would be really nice. If only they would come out with the motorized version, so that I could have a flat panel for daytime and DS 1.4 + JVC for evening night! BTW, looking forward to your review!

Dave
I also have a setup, just like you are describing. Room with lots of ambient light, HDTV for daytime use and projector, at night. This type of system requires a drop down screen. I have been looking for years for a better replacement for my 2.8 gain HP screen. When you have to have a drop down ALR screen, your choices are very limited. None of the ALR screens talked about earlier in this thread are available in a drop down. This is one of the reason's I am excited about the MicroLite 3.0, because it is being promised as an electric drop down.

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Old 09-25-2015, 05:19 AM
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Originally Posted by thezaks View Post
I agree! In fact, speaking of SI, someone on one of the forums mentioned that they have some sort of innovative new product that they will introduce at CEDIA.

https://www.screeninnovations.com/ne...si-cedia-2015/

Here's the quote:

"The heart and soul of SI is to provide innovative products that solve real-world problems. Our drive to innovate is pushing us to RE-VEAL something truly RE-VOLUTIONARY to the two-piece projection industry this year at CEDIA. We invite you to come get the true big screen experience – Booth #5735."

Dave
Yep. I will definitely be looking at what they have to offer at CEDIA.

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Old 09-25-2015, 09:01 AM
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I also have a setup, just like you are describing. Room with lots of ambient light, HDTV for daytime use and projector, at night. This type of system requires a drop down screen. I have been looking for years for a better replacement for my 2.8 gain HP screen. When you have to have a drop down ALR screen, your choices are very limited. None of the ALR screens talked about earlier in this thread are available in a drop down. This is one of the reason's I am excited about the MicroLite 3.0, because it is being promised as an electric drop down.
Sounds great Mike - looking forward to your thoughts, once you eventually get the electric drop down Microlite 3.0!

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Old 09-25-2015, 02:28 PM
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I also have a setup, just like you are describing. Room with lots of ambient light, HDTV for daytime use and projector, at night. This type of system requires a drop down screen. I have been looking for years for a better replacement for my 2.8 gain HP screen. When you have to have a drop down ALR screen, your choices are very limited. None of the ALR screens talked about earlier in this thread are available in a drop down. This is one of the reason's I am excited about the MicroLite 3.0, because it is being promised as an electric drop down.
There's a few out there, but not many that have positive gain. So if you require a bright ALR screen, that's also retractable, your options are severely limited. I say get a fixed ALR projector screen and a motorized TV lift.

Hopefully we'll see some new options get announced at CEDIA...

DNP Supernova Flex Classic motorized .8 gain ALR screen.

Draper TecVision MS1000X Grey motorized 1.0 gain ALR screen.

Elite Starling Tab-Tension 2 CineGrey 5D Series motorized 1.5 gain ALR screen.

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Old 09-25-2015, 03:33 PM
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I sure wish someone would release a nicer ultra short throw projector like the Philips Screeneo HDP1590/F7 or LG Mini Beam PF1000U.

It just needs to be in a black case, all the connections need to be on the rear (shame on you LG), needs to be 1080p (shame on you Philips), and needs to project up to 120"+ (which both of these top out at 100" they say). Oh, and it needs to have low input lag and good picture quality. I could pair one of these with a nice short-throw ALR screen such as DNP Supernova STS, and be set. It would be nice to not have to worry about walking in front of the projected image. I love the design of the Screeneo.

That Sony LSPX-W1S 4K ultra short throw projector is sweet, if only it wasn't $50,000.00.

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Old 09-25-2015, 06:40 PM - Thread Starter
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the power connector + 2nd HDMI port is located in the back

A post on PF1000 thread, this will be perfect for our main bedroom that currently has a 40" LCD. I'm waiting until the other vendors get them in stock, newegg.com is a pain to deal w/ returns if needed.




however, the future is clearly VR, some gadget's being released in the fall. Strapping a cell phone to your head will definitely take the place of watching a large screen. This looks very comfortable. And we complained about feather weight 3D glasses being a pain?

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Old 09-25-2015, 07:16 PM
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I would like to check out the VR, but I don't think any technology that requires people to wear glasses, goggles, etc. is really going to take off. I think that is one of the main reasons 3D didn't pan out as hoped.
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Old 09-25-2015, 08:25 PM - Thread Starter
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if we're measuring panning out by the success of genpop adoption, we could technically say the same thing about surround sound. I work with a large number of people and it's difficult to find anyone who has a setup beyond a basic sound bar. What a great experience folks are missing out on.

despite widespread adoption at the home, it's hard to buy a display today without 3D and folks are still spending money on it at the box office 6+ years later after Avatar brought it back to life in 2009. I predict another 5 years before any signs of the predicted death that some said would have happened a while ago.

Godzilla™ still likes 3D and approves this message.

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Old 09-25-2015, 08:52 PM
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I would like to check out the VR, but I don't think any technology that requires people to wear glasses, goggles, etc. is really going to take off. I think that is one of the main reasons 3D didn't pan out as hoped.
I just don't like the feeling of being totally out of control from what's going on around me. I need to be in control of every situation at all times. My computer monitor has a mirror on it, not because I'm looking at bad stuff, but I just hate not being totally aware of my surroundings. VR and me would never work out. Plus I hate wearing stuff on my face, and it looks silly. I'll stick with my 100"+ screen...more bragging rights anyways.

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Old 09-25-2015, 08:56 PM
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the power connector + 2nd HDMI port is located in the back

A post on PF1000 thread, this will be perfect for our main bedroom that currently has a 40" LCD. I'm waiting until the other vendors get them in stock, newegg.com is a pain to deal w/ returns if needed.
Ah, ok. At least they did that much, but all ports should be on the back. I'll have to wait for a brighter model that goes up to 120".

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Old 09-26-2015, 07:42 AM
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There's a few out there, but not many that have positive gain. So if you require a bright ALR screen, that's also retractable, your options are severely limited. I say get a fixed ALR projector screen and a motorized TV lift.

Hopefully we'll see some new options get announced at CEDIA...

DNP Supernova Flex Classic motorized .8 gain ALR screen.

Draper TecVision MS1000X Grey motorized 1.0 gain ALR screen.

Elite Starling Tab-Tension 2 CineGrey 5D Series motorized 1.5 gain ALR screen.
With the built-in, a motorized lift will not work. Has to be a drop down screen.

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Old 09-26-2015, 08:17 AM
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if we're measuring panning out by the success of genpop adoption, we could technically say the same thing about surround sound. I work with a large number of people and it's difficult to find anyone who has a setup beyond a basic sound bar. What a great experience folks are missing out on.

despite widespread adoption at the home, it's hard to buy a display today without 3D and folks are still spending money on it at the box office 6+ years later after Avatar brought it back to life in 2009. I predict another 5 years before any signs of the predicted death that some said would have happened a while ago.

Godzilla™ still likes 3D and approves this message.

I was referring to general adoption and not the niche groups like us. 3D really didn't take hold like the studios and manufacturers hoped and the decline in numbers exists although I think it will be around for a while still. I don't like 3D for a variety of reasons, but to each his own. I'm glad it exists for people who do like it.

I do like the Godzilla image!
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Old 09-26-2015, 08:45 AM - Thread Starter
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One of the main issues with 3D is if the environment isn't just right, it can lead to an unpleasant viewing experience. Due to poor experiences on multiple occasions, I've sworn off any 3D theater that isn't the flagship IMAX we have about an hour from here. 3D looks remarkable on this setup, but they have big money invested here and it shows.

There were many obstacles getting it right in the home. Small TV's with 3D aren't very compelling - the 3D effect for me is mainly lost on such a small screen. Then large low gain screens with projectors that can't light them up with any authority - who wants to watch a noticeable dim movie - 2D or 3D? The optimal setup for my preferences after testing many different projectors / screens since 2010 is the 3D DLP + HP. Better than just about every 3D theater I've been to.

while I like 3D for the movies that do it well, I don't want to watch everything in 3D. That's where the patented dual projector setup comes into play. The JVC is still the king of 2D BD.
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Old 09-26-2015, 10:49 AM
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With the built-in, a motorized lift will not work. Has to be a drop down screen.
Well, you're higher gain ALR screen choices are definitely limited in that case.

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Old 09-28-2015, 02:52 PM
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Here's my response from Vutec, "Unfortunately there is no update on SilverStar 2.2 at this time it remains a work in progress". I'm a little puzzled as to how a screen gains ISF Certification two years ago, but has yet to come to market.

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Old 09-28-2015, 08:02 PM
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I wonder how long before we'll see 8K projectors?

"Sharp plans to sell 8K TVs to consumers by 2018 in an effort to start building demand for the new display technology in advance of the 2020 Olympics."
Credit: http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...ch-8k-tv-japan

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Old 09-29-2015, 06:43 AM
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I am all good with 4k for televisions, but 8k? Now that is just outlandish. What's the plan there, you going to sit 2 ft from your 65" display to tell the difference? 4k is still so sparse, it's disgusting to think they are even trying to move on already...
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Old 09-29-2015, 07:00 AM
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I am all good with 4k for televisions, but 8k? Now that is just outlandish. What's the plan there, you going to sit 2 ft from your 65" display to tell the difference? 4k is still so sparse, it's disgusting to think they are even trying to move on already...
You can sit at your regular distance, but you watch through a pair of wide angle binoculars. Now I could see a difference between 1080P TV and 4K TV, but I have a hard time thinking that they will be able to show a difference between 4K TV and 8K TV, unless they start making a lot larger TV's.

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Old 09-29-2015, 08:34 AM
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I am all good with 4k for televisions, but 8k? Now that is just outlandish. What's the plan there, you going to sit 2 ft from your 65" display to tell the difference? 4k is still so sparse, it's disgusting to think they are even trying to move on already...
They always have to have something new to sell...although I believe the UHD spec allows 8K at final maturation.


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Old 09-29-2015, 08:50 AM
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I am all good with 4k for televisions, but 8k? Now that is just outlandish. What's the plan there, you going to sit 2 ft from your 65" display to tell the difference? 4k is still so sparse, it's disgusting to think they are even trying to move on already...

8K projectors could be pretty cool though. Television doesn't really need that IMO.

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Old 09-29-2015, 09:49 AM
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8K projectors could be pretty cool though. Television doesn't really need that IMO.
My 150" OLED roll up will need it.

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