Projector Mini-Shootout Thread - Page 403 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 11-27-2015, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
@ Elix - do you have those ADL patterns in HD size?
No, you should ask the review's author for these (I believe, somebody already did).
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I've had just about all the ones worth checking out here
What about the Samsung SP-A900B?
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Old 11-27-2015, 03:02 PM
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No, you should ask the review's author for these (I believe, somebody already did).
What about the Samsung SP-A900B?
I had the A800B here. Only difference is DMD version.
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Old 11-27-2015, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Elix View Post
No, you should ask the review's author for these (I believe, somebody already did).
http://projectiondream.com/en/movie-...-measurements/

The ADL patterns are only on our hard drive right now.
But if there is enough interest in it, we will make them available for download to burn on a dvd (AVCHD format).

They look easy enough to make but I'll ask them first if they can make them available.
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Old 11-27-2015, 03:41 PM
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~

Once the RS600 arrives, it might be time to downsize for a while and let others enjoy the DC4 Planar + the RS46 (~45 ms lag, not too bad compared to 130+ today). The 30K will stay unless I am floored with the JVC's 3D. if only they can tame the flicker a bit I would be ok with it since the x-talk is mostly under control.

Are you planning on picking up a spyder meter and playing around with the autocal?
Zombie great to hear have a rs600 arriving, very much look forward to your thoughts once get it and up and going. Got my x7000 yesterday, yet to play much, main thing want to settle on quickly is a reasonably natural look to the picture

Did you end up running the autocal on previous Jvc ? Something am curious to explore but the the sensor accuracy a put off plus prob wouldn't calibrate for first 200 hours anyways to give a chance to settle down .... Unless the autocal was s pretty quick process
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Old 11-28-2015, 10:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Zombie great to hear have a rs600 arriving, very much look forward to your thoughts once get it and up and going. Got my x7000 yesterday, yet to play much, main thing want to settle on quickly is a reasonably natural look to the picture

Did you end up running the autocal on previous Jvc ? Something am curious to explore but the the sensor accuracy a put off plus prob wouldn't calibrate for first 200 hours anyways to give a chance to settle down .... Unless the autocal was s pretty quick process
I never used the autocal software on the previous versions but definitely going to give it a shot on the RS600. I'm waiting to see if the Spyder 5 is supported before picking one up. I have a calibrated meter to compare it against to see how accurate it is. You'll read about it here and also in Manni's excellent JVC calibration thread.

keep us posted on your thoughts of the X7000 vs. the X35.
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Old 11-28-2015, 10:56 AM
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Jason, the only thing that I find noticeable about the dynamic contrast system on the Planar is the occasional clipped whites.
Yep. It is of course a nice projector and there are trade offs with all of these, but I found the near white crushing/clipping especially annoying when watching Underworld: Rise of the Lycans and there were dark scenes with small details lit up like one character on a throne in the dark:

http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0834001/me...mi_mi_tt_pos_1
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I never saw that on the Sony's system, but then again it's not as aggressive in it's contrast multiplier with real content, so that makes sense.
Even if the Sony iris closed as far they wouldn't do as much reverse gamma compensation, so wouldn't provide as much intra-image CR improvement, but also wouldn't crush as much detail. I think they did that largely because Greg Rogers pointed out the near white compression with one of their very early attempts and it is easier to see that artifact than it is to see that the DI isn't improving intra-image CR as much as it could for the irises current position.

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Old 11-28-2015, 12:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Rise of the Lycans was my least favorite underworld but I'll watch it tonight in the same of science...

I was using the DC4 Planar last night for a rare moment of watching TV (I never watch TV) and thought it looked great. The show I was watching is called Street Outlaws (drag racing show) and most of the scenes are at night. I was surprised how well it does in these lower APL scenes, noticeably better than the handful of budget DLP's i've had here over the last few years.

panel uniformity is also something that stands out (or doesn't in this case). I can spot bright corners in a second with the big HP screen. The HW65 has noticeable bright corners in lower APL scenes whereas the field uniformity on the Planar is excellent in comparison. All these little things add up in the sum of the overall PQ when comparing the 7+ year old Planar to today's projectors.

I notice no one talks about DLP 'pop' much these days. My room is blacked out with velvet and thought the Planar definitely had something special in these scenes where they are interviewing someone with a light color shirt against a black background. The HW65 looked flatter in these scenes. Is is possible I am seeing the higher ANSI on the Planar?
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Old 11-28-2015, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I notice no one talks about DLP 'pop' much these days. My room is blacked out with velvet and thought the Planar definitely had something special in these scenes where they are interviewing someone with a light color shirt against a black background. The HW65 looked flatter in these scenes. Is is possible I am seeing the higher ANSI on the Planar?
Interesting. I used notice the whole DLP pop thing. But once I really went to town, made the black pit, combined with the JVC RS57, I seem to get plenty of pop. That was one of the things that really struck me. I think my room is preserving almost as much ANSI (or whatever) as possible, which helps.
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Old 11-28-2015, 01:48 PM - Thread Starter
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I have this specific show recorded so I'm going to look at it closely between the Planar and the RS46 later tonight. Dual output on the AVR is great for doing these quick A/B comparisons.

I agree the room treatments make a huge impact, especially for being able to pick out subtle differences between these different projector.

In honor of this specific topic, I'm hanging some velvet curtains in a different part of my room tonight. It's only taken 1 1/2 years to get back to finishing this project.
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Old 11-28-2015, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I never used the autocal software on the previous versions but definitely going to give it a shot on the RS600. I'm waiting to see if the Spyder 5 is supported before picking one up. I have a calibrated meter to compare it against to see how accurate it is. You'll read about it here and also in Manni's excellent JVC calibration thread.

keep us posted on your thoughts of the X7000 vs. the X35.
Thank zombie, look forward to how you find the autocal, I do hope something like the spider 5 is supported, I'd grab one too if we're, will check back here and at manni's

Will do re x7000 vs x35, even in my little viewing the natural sharpness plus light output of the x7000 was obvious. Love the dual iris and already had a little play but a new aspect for me and need to get my head around .

No1 priority for me though is getting a natural look to the picture,You were a big help for me with this on the x35 zombie, film mode and standard plus a tweak in gamma was all need out of box, and am hoping can settle soon on something pretty close on the x7000. Though film modes are complex on the x7000 and not sure even standard on that a selectable option. There is thx mode... All things hoping to explore tonight/to,or row night when get a chance

"Technology is a drug. We can't get enough of it."


Welcome to my lounge room :)
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Old 11-28-2015, 06:09 PM
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I don't often get a chance to see the Sony projectors in action, but my local high end AV place had one of the Sony 4Ks (couldn't see which model, I'm guessing 600 or similar) in a dedicated room, doing the common Sony 4K loop. It was also fed to a Sony 4K flat screen in the same room. Those Sonys are certainly very nice, and I was surprised how nice the black levels and contrast were. White letters against a black background were particularly vivid. Detail was generally excellent, color rich and varied. Motion very smooth.

It's interesting that, having looked at the 4K feeds on many of the latest flat panels in the same store, including a Panasonic 80", none seemed to convey the depth of image as the Sony projected image (or even come close to what I'm used to at home from my JVC RS57 set up.

As I mentioned in the screen forum, though, boy have I grown to really dislike ALR screens. The Sony, and an Epson laser projector, were using ALR screens - gray screens with gain - and the hot-spotting was immediately obvious and pronounced, and I could really see the reduction in image clarity/detail caused by the screen texture. It was always like trying to see through a scrim of dirty, speckly overlay on the image. Such screens certainly have their place, as I always happily admit, but they sure aren't what I'd want if I were looking to get the best from a projector. I'm very glad I went the route of treating my room so I could use a white screen with low gain, low texture, low hot-spotting. Given how allergic I've become to those issues, I don't know how much longer I can resist before trying the Stewart ST100....

Anyway, obviously JVC is putting heat on the Sony line this year, but the Sonys sure look nice too!
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Old 11-28-2015, 06:18 PM
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.....
Anyway, obviously JVC is putting heat on the Sony line this year, but the Sonys sure look nice too!
Have to agree, Rich. Watching some of the football games on my 1100ES tonight I am so impressed with such a rich, vibrant pic.
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Old 11-28-2015, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I notice no one talks about DLP 'pop' much these days. My room is blacked out with velvet and thought the Planar definitely had something special in these scenes where they are interviewing someone with a light color shirt against a black background. The HW65 looked flatter in these scenes. Is is possible I am seeing the higher ANSI on the Planar?
For what it's worth my DC4 Marantz VP11S2 has a claimed 1000:1 ANSI contrast - I don't know what it is in reality but the image has a sharpness and pop to it that hasn't been matched by any projector I've seen except my Sony 1100ES when fed a high quality native 4K source.

On native 1080P material I still think the DLP Marantz looks better than the 1100ES Sony. Other people have told me I'm crazy for saying that, but it is what it is.

"Don't forget that a significant contribution made by the use of high-end cabling is emotional. Knowing that you have the best available causes the listening and viewing to be that much more enjoyable. Observable improvements make it even better."

-From a post on the audio video improvements forum
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Old 11-29-2015, 06:36 AM
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I agree 100% Chris. I think that people tend to underestimate the high end DC4 DLP units because on the on/off contrast. All of the other attributes are stellar. I had a Samsung A900B that I would put right up there with the Sony and I imagine the Marantz is cut of that cloth. The Sony is a great unit and breathtaking with native 4k but a solid DLP is awesome as well.

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For what it's worth my DC4 Marantz VP11S2 has a claimed 1000:1 ANSI contrast - I don't know what it is in reality but the image has a sharpness and pop to it that hasn't been matched by any projector I've seen except my Sony 1100ES when fed a high quality native 4K source.

On native 1080P material I still think the DLP Marantz looks better than the 1100ES Sony. Other people have told me I'm crazy for saying that, but it is what it is.
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Old 11-29-2015, 06:43 AM
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I agree 100% Chris. I think that people tend to underestimate the high end DC4 DLP units because on the on/off contrast. All of the other attributes are stellar. I had a Samsung A900B that I would put right up there with the Sony and I imagine the Marantz is cut of that cloth. The Sony is a great unit and breathtaking with native 4k but a solid DLP is awesome as well.
I don't know how much I'd agree with this sentiment. Yes, I understand there's an aesthetic to a high quality DLP image that is quite inviting, but the fact remains that these units are at a pretty massive disadvantage when it comes to on/off contrast. As we know this is one metric that seems to be overwhelmingly important in our perception of good image quality. I remember several months ago when I demo'ed the Epson LS10000. Also with me was a JVC DLA-X500 and Runco Q750i LED projector that I brought along to do some fun comparisons. The LED unit measures around 800:1 ANSI contrast, has a DC4 DMD and a very impressive dynamic LED dimming system to boost on/off contrast. When put up head to head against the LS10000, even with brighter material, we saw little difference in image "pop". All three of us in the room were a little surprised at this. Even with a low ANSI contrast performing LCoQ unit like the LS10000, the far higher native on/off of the machine made the difference in "pop" between the two basically equal. This was done in a treated room without ambient light. And when we opened the iris up on the LS10000 to let more light out, the image definitely had more "pop" to it by comparison to the LED unit. I think this is why the Sony 1100ES is so impressive looking. It has all three; high ANSI, high on/off and high brightness (and an excellent lens). Most DC4 DLPs lack the higher brightness and high on/off, so they're at a pretty big disadvantage by today's standards.
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Old 11-29-2015, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
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When I had the 750 LED stacked with the DC4 Planar, I personally wasn't as impressed with the LED based DI vs. the Planar's implementation. My velvet room + large HP screen makes iris activity stand out like a sore thumb and could see the 'stepping' in the LED iris adjustments. it's more subtle on the Planar imo.

before the new JVC's, they also lacked the higher brightness of the Sony 4K models, a 4910/X500 isn't that far off @ D65 high lamp vs. the Planar.

For the 2+ years I've owned the Planar, I can't say that I've watched an entire movie on it until last night. We watched the new 'Vacation' movie and thought it looked excellent from beginning to end. I ran it in low lamp and was still plenty bright on the HP. There was a number of mid-low APL scenes and none disappointed as much as the native contrast would indicate. My recent test show around 7k:1 in lower APL scenes so it's not as 'devastating' with the black floor vs. budget DLP's.

mid-high APL scenes looked better to my eyes than the recent HW65 I had here in a direct A/B with a split source, both fully calibrated.

keep in mind the context of the how inexpensive some of these Planar/Runco's have sold for in recent years. practically giving them away with low hours. great out of the box color, low lag time, razor sharp lens and very cheap replacement lamps. These current budget DLP's are a real disappointment in overall 2D PQ vs. .95 Planar/Runco models.
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Old 11-29-2015, 09:28 AM
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When I had the 750 LED stacked with the DC4 Planar, I personally wasn't as impressed with the LED based DI vs. the Planar's implementation. My velvet room + large HP screen makes iris activity stand out like a sore thumb and could see the 'stepping' in the LED iris adjustments. it's more subtle on the Planar imo.

before the new JVC's, they also lacked the higher brightness of the Sony 4K models, a 4910/X500 isn't that far off @ D65 high lamp vs. the Planar.

For the 2+ years I've owned the Planar, I can't say that I've watched an entire movie on it until last night. We watched the new 'Vacation' movie and thought it looked excellent from beginning to end. I ran it in low lamp and was still plenty bright on the HP. There was a number of mid-low APL scenes and none disappointed as much as the native contrast would indicate. My recent test show around 7k:1 in lower APL scenes so it's not as 'devastating' with the black floor vs. budget DLP's.

mid-high APL scenes looked better to my eyes than the recent HW65 I had here in a direct A/B with a split source, both fully calibrated.

keep in mind the context of the how inexpensive some of these Planar/Runco's have sold for in recent years. practically giving them away with low hours. great out of the box color, low lag time, razor sharp lens and very cheap replacement lamps. These current budget DLP's are a real disappointment in overall 2D PQ vs. .95 Planar/Runco models.
I agree that the two are different implementations, but I'd ague that they are fundamentally implemented the same, in that overall DI performance is similar. Overall image quality between these two units is STRIKINGLY similar. This makes sense considering they're both using the same light path, optics and video processing solution. The only thing that differs is the light source and how contrast is handled dynamically.

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Old 11-29-2015, 09:34 AM
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@stanger89 - I dusted off my DC4 Planar last night out of guilt as I cleaned up my general HT area and wanted to re-visit the contrast conversation you were discussing in comparison to the JVC.

vs. running the typical 0 and 100 IRE measurements I wanted to see what the dynamic black would do with a very little 'white' information on the screen - ie. 1/4 top screen of credits. To my surprise, the black floor stays a good bit lower than it does when it's turned off. Measuring the contrast in this scenario shows about 7000:1. I then went and looked at a number of low APL scenes to verify what I was seeing. The DB does a very good job controlling the black floor without a substantial hit to the peak whites.
Yeah, what sort of surprises me is just how quickly the JVC's advantage disappears as the picture level increases. Soulnight's done some great work, but I think we're still missing something.

He posted this data about ADL:


And this about contrast vs ADL of various projectors:


Going by the second, you would think that a DLP would lose at anything under 10-20% ADL, and most movies are well under that. However that doesn't jive with what we're actually seeing. It seems to be a much lower threshold where that "crossover" happens. So I wonder, is there something wrong with how we're modeling ADL? Or maybe those test patterns don't accurately capture/predict real world content.

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I don't know how much I'd agree with this sentiment. Yes, I understand there's an aesthetic to a high quality DLP image that is quite inviting, but the fact remains that these units are at a pretty massive disadvantage when it comes to on/off contrast.
I don't think anyone's disagreeing with that, there is a big difference in a black frame between my RS4910 and my 8150, especially with the DI enabled on the JVC. However like I said, what really surprises me is just how quickly that advantage disappears with seemingly very little non-black content on the screen.
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Old 11-29-2015, 09:43 AM
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Yeah, what sort of surprises me is just how quickly the JVC's advantage disappears as the picture level increases. Soulnight's done some great work, but I think we're still missing something.

He posted this data about ADL:


And this about contrast vs ADL of various projectors:


Going by the second, you would think that a DLP would lose at anything under 10-20% ADL, and most movies are well under that. However that doesn't jive with what we're actually seeing. It seems to be a much lower threshold where that "crossover" happens. So I wonder, is there something wrong with how we're modeling ADL? Or maybe those test patterns don't accurately capture/predict real world content.



I don't think anyone's disagreeing with that, there is a big difference in a black frame between my RS4910 and my 8150, especially with the DI enabled on the JVC. However like I said, what really surprises me is just how quickly that advantage disappears with seemingly very little non-black content on the screen.
The PD8150 is unique in that it's really the only single chip DLP projector I've seen look pretty decent with darker content. The BenQ and other DLP units I would expect to behave exactly the way that graph depicts contrast performance.

I agree that sometimes the difference is small between the PD8150 and a JVC. It doesn't take much white highlight in the image to open the PD8150's iris a decent amount and in a mixed APL scene when this happens it becomes plainly obvious that this unit relies heavily on that iris to get respectable contrast performance. Generally though, yes, it normally looks excellent. My biggest qualm with it was always a bit too much white clipping in low APL scenes with the DI enabled from gamma compensation.
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Old 11-29-2015, 09:49 AM
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I agree that sometimes the difference is small between the PD8150 and a JVC. It doesn't take much white highlight in the image to open the PD8150's iris a decent amount and in a mixed APL scene when this happens it becomes plainly obvious that this unit relies heavily on that iris to get respectable contrast performance. Generally though, yes, it normally looks excellent. My biggest qualm with it was always a bit too much white clipping in low APL scenes with the DI enabled from gamma compensation.
We're probably saying the same thing, but I look at it the other way, it seems that most of the time the difference is small (or advantage Planar), except when you get to the darkest scenes, and then yes, the difference is significant.
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Old 11-29-2015, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
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I didn't see any obvious white clipping during our viewing of Vacation last night (plenty of mid - low APL scenes) but will go back and look at Underworld which is a bit of an extreme situation with very bright highlights cutting through the dark background.

The JVC iris will have it's own set of issues with those kinds of scenes as well. The DG flair up during the transitions could be tamed with software tweaks. not sure if we'll see any gains here on the new models but I'll likely continue running a fixed iris position. currently @ -11 on the RS46.
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Old 11-29-2015, 10:04 AM
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I didn't see any obvious white clipping during our viewing of Vacation last night (plenty of mid - low APL scenes) but will go back and look at Underworld which is a bit of an extreme situation with very bright highlights cutting through the dark background.

The JVC iris will have it's own set of issues with those kinds of scenes as well. The DG flair up during the transitions could be tamed with software tweaks. not sure if we'll see any gains here on the new models but I'll likely continue running a fixed iris position. currently @ -11 on the RS46.
It takes dark content, where the iris is closed down to pretty much as low as it goes to show white clipping. With darker movies it's there. From my experience this type of content occurs in movies more than one would think. This is why I've strayed away from the PD8150. The JVCs can show a trace of clipped whites here and there, but not as bad as the PD8150. If you'd like I can cut together a few clips where I distinctly remember seeing it if you (or anyone else) is interested. If you've never watched a full movie on it before I don't know if you've really spent enough time with this DI implementation. I have many many hundreds (probably in the thousands by now) of hours with this DI implementation and can attest to it's performance in detail.
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Old 11-29-2015, 10:19 AM - Thread Starter
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A full movie = end to end, I've watch plenty of all the lengthy scenes I use for the various tests on the other projectors.

I know what you are referring to but just don't see it as a deal breaker in any regard. I can pick out a number of scenes that will give the Sony and JVC iris a tough time.

we'll see differently on the LED iris. In a completely blacked out room with a large surface area HP screen, the stepping changes are more obvious to me than the Planar when viewed in a stack with a split source. Double the price for basically the same exact projector was a bit comical looking back it. especially with $100 OEM replacement lamps.
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Old 11-29-2015, 10:23 AM
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I don't think anyone's disagreeing with that, there is a big difference in a black frame between my RS4910 and my 8150, especially with the DI enabled on the JVC. However like I said, what really surprises me is just how quickly that advantage disappears with seemingly very little non-black content on the screen.
Do you mean side-by-side or quickly blocking one and then the other, or taking some time between each? My memory is that when I compared my 8150 to my JVC years ago there was little CR difference for most scenes, so I looked for scenes where there were differences. With a little difficulty I found a scene where I thought the Planar's ANSI CR gave it a nice visual difference. I remember a black suit in the desert from one of the Bond movies.

I didn't find it difficult to find scenes where I thought the on/off CR advantage with the JVC was clear. The same thing with the Samsung 9000 that I had for a very short period before I compared it to a JVC and then sold the Samsung. I recall the differences there were pretty clear even in some indoor scenes in a Riddick movie that wouldn't be considered the darkest, but I don't recall if I tried that one with the Planar.

I've used the analogy before of 2 leather chairs where one has extremely soft leather, but a pin sticking up that you hit multiple times per day, versus another chair where the leather isn't quite as soft, but much less of a pin that bites every once in a while.

Bill Cushman pointed out years ago that even 30:1 ANSI CR would be fairly satisfying, but not having enough on/off CR means that the intra-image CRs sometimes drop very low and become very noticeable.

I think that for those with experience and paying a little bit of attention the low on/off CR can be like an alarm going off, where the lower ANSI CR of the JVCs is more like white noise that many people find they don't even notice without it being pointed out.

Maybe a little bit like fan noise with projectors where some of the biggest complaints are for models that have cycled their fan speeds based on what was necessary instead of keeping a constant speed, even if higher.

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Old 11-29-2015, 10:31 AM
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A full movie = end to end, I've watch plenty of all the lengthy scenes I use for the various tests on the other projectors.

I know what you are referring to but just don't see it as a deal breaker in any regard. I can pick out a number of scenes that will give the Sony and JVC iris a tough time.

we'll see differently on the LED iris. In a completely blacked out room with a large surface area HP screen, the stepping changes are more obvious to me than the Planar when viewed in a stack with a split source. Double the price for basically the same exact projector was a bit comical looking back it. especially with $100 OEM replacement lamps.
I have the opposite viewpoint because while the Sony and JVC DI may flicker or adjust momentarily and then calm down for the rest of the scene, the clipped whites are there, in your face, for the entirely of that scene until the APL changes or white highlights are no longer in the frame. I'd rather deal with a little flicker or pump and get it over with quickly than have the obvious clipping the entire time. Nothing is perfect and I'm not saying any one of these DI systems is "bad" but like everything we talk about here there's a bit of subjectivity involved in deciding which you prefer more.

I've also come to the conclusion that with the JVC, even having the DI off, contrast is almost always more than satisfying. So if I don't like it's performance I can turn it off, use it manually, and still have a rock solid, high contrast experience with no real flaw within the image. With the Planar you don't have the option. It's a well implemented DI which you're forced to use if you want good contrast performance, but you'll always have those few flaws here and there where the JVC at least gives you options. Again, it's a great projector. I think it's safe to say there's been one here for more time than any other unit I've owned, but right now JVC gives more flexibility in how you can set it up for use and (for me) gives a more overall satisfying image with no real flaw. It's just a rock solid, stable, great looking image. The more units I see, the more I appreciate how it's really only a JVC that can give me this if I choose.

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Old 11-29-2015, 10:50 AM
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I remember the white clipping on the older Sony Pearl-era projectors being really obvious, and bugging me. (The blown-out highlights made many movie images look too video-like).
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Old 11-29-2015, 12:02 PM
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Rise of the Lycans was my least favorite underworld but I'll watch it tonight in the same of science...

I was using the DC4 Planar last night for a rare moment of watching TV (I never watch TV) and thought it looked great. The show I was watching is called Street Outlaws (drag racing show) and most of the scenes are at night. I was surprised how well it does in these lower APL scenes, noticeably better than the handful of budget DLP's i've had here over the last few years.

panel uniformity is also something that stands out (or doesn't in this case). I can spot bright corners in a second with the big HP screen. The HW65 has noticeable bright corners in lower APL scenes whereas the field uniformity on the Planar is excellent in comparison. All these little things add up in the sum of the overall PQ when comparing the 7+ year old Planar to today's projectors.

I notice no one talks about DLP 'pop' much these days. My room is blacked out with velvet and thought the Planar definitely had something special in these scenes where they are interviewing someone with a light color shirt against a black background. The HW65 looked flatter in these scenes. Is is possible I am seeing the higher ANSI on the Planar?

That " pop " might be why my AVS forum guests preferred the Lumis over the VW600 when watching scenes of Avatar back to back a few weeks ago. It wasn't even close. The VW600 did look " flatter " picture wise.

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Old 11-29-2015, 12:04 PM
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That " pop " might be why my AVS forum guests preferred the Lumis over the VW600 when watching scenes of Avatar back to back a few weeks ago. It wasn't even close. The VW600 did look " flatter " picture wise.
I wonder if your unit has lost some contrast? I believe a new 600ES should measure ~450:1 ANSI contrast and around 12000:1 on/off contrast with similar brightness levels to the Lumis. It definitely should not look "flatter" unless a loss in contrast has occurred.
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Old 11-29-2015, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I remember the white clipping on the older Sony Pearl-era projectors being really obvious, and bugging me. (The blown-out highlights made many movie images look too video-like).
these are relatively small nuances between different projectors that gen-pop would consider us a bit crazy over these kind of minute details. Hunting down specific scenes to find a problem fits into that category. While certainly not perfect, the Planar by all accounts is one of the best single panel DLP's and can still hold it's own 7+ years later. The same would not be said of the JVC RS1 or the expensive VW100/200 of the same era.

it took JVC years to improve the areas that needed help like OOTB color performance, new panel design to avoid pink band, motion performance, lamp issues, etc. None of the Sony's 1080P models over the last 5 years came close to the Planar for natural sharpness. Imagine if Planar/Runco kept putting engineering efforts into this design that was ahead of it's time for the 2007 time period.

Rich when does your new projector land in CA?
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Old 11-29-2015, 12:13 PM
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these are relatively small nuances between different projectors that gen-pop would consider us a bit crazy over these kind of minute details. Hunting down specific scenes to find a problem fits into that category. While certainly not perfect, the Planar by all accounts is one of the best single panel DLP's and can still hold it's own 7+ years later. The same would not be said of the JVC RS1 or the expensive VW100/200 of the same era.

it took JVC years to improve the areas that needed help like OOTB color performance, new panel design to avoid pink band, motion performance, lamp issues, etc. None of the Sony's 1080P models over the last 5 years came close to the Planar for natural sharpness. Imagine if Planar/Runco kept putting engineering efforts into this design that was ahead of it's time for the 2007 time period.

Rich when does your new projector land in CA?
That was kind of my point though. Because these types of dark scenes happen more often than people think you don't need to "hunt down" content like this. Like I said, this is why I've ditched the PD8150 and moved on to something that doesn't give me any troubles. If JVC has indeed provided a less aggressive dynamic iris solution I may find it to be my favorite one yet.
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