Projector Mini-Shootout Thread - Page 427 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12781 of 14722 Old 12-18-2015, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post
If you're going to watch 3D with the new JVC projectors make sure you give the projector 15 minutes or more to warm up. I tried some scenes with no warmup and saw some ghosting in high contrast scenes. Tried the same scenes again some time later and they were clean. The RS-400 is a great 3D machine and I would expect the 500/600 to be even better. I lovin' this thing!

Hello Dejavu ,


And wich 3d glasses and emitter are you using?


Best regards
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post #12782 of 14722 Old 12-18-2015, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
Not my experience on the X500 (eshift3).

Yes, the controls are more granular, but anything beyond 5-10 for enhanced caused ringing and about any use of NR would cause various artifacts, at least on well mastered blurays.

There might be some difference for content and maybe depending on f/w or models, but my settings for the X500 were 10, 10, 10, 0 and I know some used even less than that. That's for bluray playback. I would use more for lesser quality HDTV content.

But they might be entirely different with eshift4, I trust Zombie's eyes
Interesting. On my 4910, I haven't seen artifacts with Enhance pushed up to 40. I can clearly see where they start just shy of 50. I also do see anything of test patterns. I do keep smoothing, dynamic contrast and NR at 0. I also have an oppo 103d so I don't use clear black.
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post #12783 of 14722 Old 12-18-2015, 09:11 AM
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Nicely said Rich (agree 110%). That's why I love some of the animated ones which just go for it and make it really fun for you & your audience. There's one I can't remember right now (maybe Monsters vs Aliens?) where at the beginning of the movie the kid is using the old paddleball at the screen and you could swear that ball was going to smack you in the face!

I saw How to Train your Dragon 2 in 3D with my son. I thought the 3D effects really improved the experience--and they weren't particularly subtle, but then who is looking for subtle in a movie about dragons?
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post #12784 of 14722 Old 12-18-2015, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by curlyjive View Post
Interesting. On my 4910, I haven't seen artifacts with Enhance pushed up to 40. I can clearly see where they start just shy of 50. I also do see anything of test patterns. I do keep smoothing, dynamic contrast and NR at 0. I also have an oppo 103d so I don't use clear black.

Good point, I do use Clear Black on low as I like its Darbee lite effect (similar to HD35 or HD40) with most content. That might have an effect on the MPC settings I ended up with.
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post #12785 of 14722 Old 12-18-2015, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by MadMyers View Post
Which is on the left?

The left looks like the noise reduction is way to high and his cheek looks plastic.



X9000 on the left.
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post #12786 of 14722 Old 12-18-2015, 09:55 AM
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X9000 on the left.
Do you mean your other left?

The picture on the left looks pretty bad (fine detail is not there) compared to the pic on the right.
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post #12787 of 14722 Old 12-18-2015, 09:58 AM
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That's not the metadata we're talking about.

You're talking about the metadata telling the display to switch between SDR and HDR, and in which mode.

We're talking about the metadata telling the source - and therefore the display - how the content was mastered, so for example to which peak white value. That, the HD Fury cannot invent. It can give options to try, but what we're after is the metadata present in the content itself.
Indeed and if you know the mastering volume and brightness you can provide these as custom setting in the fury, or in a broadcast monitor with manual control.

The data carried in SEI is converted for carriage over HDMI by the player, stb, the HDMI link is where the Fury steps in, with alternative data insertion.
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post #12788 of 14722 Old 12-18-2015, 10:09 AM
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Do you mean your other left?

The picture on the left looks pretty bad (fine detail is not there) compared to the pic on the right.
Source http://www.projection-homecinema.fr/...jvc-dla-x9000/


x9000 defo on left.


Should get more people posting here soon for a more detailed comparison.
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post #12789 of 14722 Old 12-18-2015, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevin 3000 View Post
Source http://www.projection-homecinema.fr/...jvc-dla-x9000/


x9000 defo on left.


Should get more people posting here soon for a more detailed comparison.
He has NR set to 5. I think this explains why the image is lacking so much in sharpness (and explains why faces look so "plasticy") and another good reason not to trust Kraine's reviews. In my opinion, when comparing two projectors nearly all software enhancements that you cannot fully match (and know they are matched) should be disabled or turned all the way down during comparisons. Seeing that MPC gen 3 and gen 4 are setup quite differently, I personally would have disabled them before making any comparisons:

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post #12790 of 14722 Old 12-18-2015, 11:14 AM
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Yikes! ^^^
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post #12791 of 14722 Old 12-18-2015, 12:20 PM - Thread Starter
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2016 JVC X-talk info

ok so you asked for it, here it is.

JVCRS600 - L/R patterns, Left eye. It's not quite as flawless as it looks but very very close. you have to really focus with the eyes to catch any part of the 'R' pattern. This can be reduced to near non-existance with a few clicks down on the x-talk controls. Quite amazing compared to previous generations.

definitely the best I have seen on the non-DLP's. Epson and Sony 1080P + 4K models cannot match this test.




for reference - JVC RS55/X70/X90 - terrible performance, same as the original RS40/RS50.




Epson LS10K -
current model




Sharp 30K 3D DLP - Flawless as expected




Sony VW600
- 4K model




Mitsubishi HC5/HC9000 - nearly useless 3D on this projector. shame, it was a nice 2D projector if they could have the iris.




so... what does this mean to the 3D enthusiast? somehow JVC found a way to do a great job at controlling x-talk. closest to DLP I have seen yet. Why does it matter to the casual 3D viewer? it may not. Some folks may not see the x-talk in a movie but imo, once you see it, it will stand out.

btw - even my Flagship IMAX theater (KOP PA) will show x-talk with head movement thanks to those craptacular polarizing glasses. I hate those glasses. Active shutter all the way for my preferences.



hey... did you hear the latest JVC projectors have really nice 3D??


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post #12792 of 14722 Old 12-18-2015, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post



Is that an actual picture of the screen, using the RS600? If so, what screen is it?

Thanks,
Dave
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post #12793 of 14722 Old 12-18-2015, 12:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, it's left eye on the RS600 looking at a scene from Happy Feet 2 (these 2 characters are the only redeeming part of this movie. I have a good imagination but talking penguins that constantly break out in song is where I check out...)

Screen is a 142" 16:9 2.8 High Power from Dalite. No longer available which is unfortunate. it's great for 3D.

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post #12794 of 14722 Old 12-18-2015, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
ok so you asked for it, here it is.

JVCRS600 - L/R patterns, Left eye. It's not quite as flawless as it looks but very very close. you have to really focus with the eyes to catch any part of the 'R' pattern. This can be reduced to near non-existance with a few clicks down on the x-talk controls. Quite amazing compared to previous generations.

definitely the best I have seen on the non-DLP's. Epson and Sony 1080P + 4K models cannot match this test.




for reference - JVC RS55/X70/X90 - terrible performance, same as the original RS40/RS50.




Epson LS10K -
current model



Sharp 30K 3D DLP - Flawless as expected




Sony VW600
- 4K model




Mitsubishi HC5/HC9000 - nearly useless 3D on this projector. shame, it was a nice 2D projector if they could have the iris.




so... what does this mean to the 3D enthusiast? somehow JVC found a way to do a great job at controlling x-talk. closest to DLP I have seen yet. Why does it matter to the casual 3D viewer? it may not. Some folks may not see the x-talk in a movie but imo, once you see it, it will stand out.

btw - even my Flagship IMAX theater (KOP PA) will show x-talk with head movement thanks to those craptacular polarizing glasses. I hate those glasses. Active shutter all the way for my preferences.



hey... did you hear the latest JVC projectors have really nice 3D??


Thanks Zombie -- you're the man! These L/R 3D x-talk tests really put the various 3D projectors into perspective. I agree that the JVC isn't quite as good as the DLP projectors for X-talk but JVC has got closer than anyone else to date. The L/R test of your 600 looks perfect but as you said it isn't quite that good. Hats off to JVC -- someone at JVC put a considerable effort into this and its paid off.
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post #12795 of 14722 Old 12-18-2015, 12:55 PM - Thread Starter
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I wonder if this was somehow unintentional by chance of using a higher wattage lamp. remember the long discussion on warmup time (not just for JVC but Epson and Sony as well). I think there is more to it though. RS6710 in high lamp for an hour couldn't match the RS600 in low lamp after 15-20 mins.

Have you tried lowering the crosstalk control a few clicks? also curious to hear how the RS500 does here vs. your RS400.

also important to note- contrast performance. Animations like the one above have a number of lower-mid APL scenes. The JVC high native contrast gives this extra pop and dimension to the overall image vs. some of other 3D projectors that could use some native contrast help - especially the under 10K DLP's.

Last edited by zombie10k; 12-18-2015 at 12:59 PM.
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post #12796 of 14722 Old 12-18-2015, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by john2910 View Post
Hello Dejavu ,


And wich 3d glasses and emitter are you using?


Best regards

Zombie I believe recommends the Expand emitter and glasses so I would think that would be the best way to go. I use the JVC emitter ($100.00) and Samsung RF glasses ($20 each). They work for me. I have 6 different kinds of 3D glasses (probably 20 to 25 glasses in total so I'm tired of dealing with these things). I use the Samsung glasses with other 3D projectors so at least they're versatile.
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post #12797 of 14722 Old 12-18-2015, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I wonder if this was somehow unintentional by chance of using a higher wattage lamp. remember the long discussion on warmup time (not just for JVC but Epson and Sony as well). I think there is more to it though. RS6710 in high lamp for an hour couldn't match the RS600 in low lamp after 15-20 mins.

Have you tried lowering the crosstalk control a few clicks? also curious to hear how the RS500 does here vs. your RS400.

also important to note- contrast performance. Animations like the one above have a number of lower-mid APL scenes. The JVC high native contrast gives this extra pop and dimension to the overall image vs. some of other 3D projectors that could use some native contrast help - especially the under 10K DLP's.
I think it's more than just a "hotter" lamp. Someone I believe put his or her mind to the problem and came up with a great solution -- one that had to work within the framework and limitations of the projector's cost (target market). You would expect this kind of 3D performance from the $25K Sony not particularly from JVC units in the $4 to $7K range -- IMO it gives JVC a big advantage over its competition (for those looking for not only great 2D performance but also great 3D performance all in one package). You don't need a separate DLP for 3D anymore. In fact, the JVCs trounce the DLPs (and some others)in the brightness and contrast performance arenas. I know I'm biased but for me this is a huge breakthrough -- something for which I've been patiently waiting. This isn't evolutionary but rather revolutionary.
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post #12798 of 14722 Old 12-18-2015, 02:23 PM
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Screen is a 142" 16:9 2.8 High Power from Dalite. No longer available which is unfortunate. it's great for 3D.

So, with that screen no longer available, what would you guys recommend now for a motorized projection screen (flat panel to be used in the daytime), in a room with white ceiling, tan carpet and walls? 2D is the primary concern for me - I do not need 3D. RS500 on its way to me and should arrive next week

Dave
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post #12799 of 14722 Old 12-18-2015, 02:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
Yes, it's left eye on the RS600 looking at a scene from Happy Feet 2 (these 2 characters are the only redeeming part of this movie. I have a good imagination but talking penguins that constantly break out in song is where I check out...)

Screen is a 142" 16:9 2.8 High Power from Dalite. No longer available which is unfortunate. it's great for 3D.

I had been meaning to ask you this question. Where are the speakers? I assume you have L/R behind a black speaker cloth? What about center speaker? Where is it? Below the screen?
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post #12800 of 14722 Old 12-18-2015, 05:00 PM
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... comparing 1080P content with RC vs. e-shift4 is an entire discussion into itself with some surprising results I'll be discussing in detail later.
I'm waiting for the surprise! Any hints when it's coming?
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post #12801 of 14722 Old 12-18-2015, 05:08 PM
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Thanks for the L/R pattern shots on the RS600 Zombie. I am still amazed and impressed with whatever JVC did here to get this level of improvement! I need to track one down in Denver somewhere and check it out.
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post #12802 of 14722 Old 12-18-2015, 06:12 PM
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I agree with this observation. But I wonder....if we had some standard measure of enjoyment (or perhaps it is just peace of mind)...who enjoys their home theaters more? --average joe- set it and go- or the contributors to this thread--who certainly have more precise set ups than their counterpart Joes? If peace of mind is the measure, than I'll bet it's the former. Such is the disease of those who strive for (as much as reasonably can be) perfection!
As Susan Sarandon said in Bull Durham, "The world is made for people who aren't cursed with self awareness."

My dad was negotiating on a new car with a salesman and my dad mentioned that the guy probably has some people who just come in and pay full sticker price. The salesman said that he did and that they were some of his happiest customers. I don't doubt that. Those who take the blue pill in the Matrix are probably the happiest too.

I think most of us have things in our lives we were are more like those who take the red pill and things where we are more like those who take the blue pill.

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post #12803 of 14722 Old 12-18-2015, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
ok so you asked for it, here it is.

JVCRS600 - L/R patterns, Left eye. It's not quite as flawless as it looks but very very close. you have to really focus with the eyes to catch any part of the 'R' pattern. This can be reduced to near non-existance with a few clicks down on the x-talk controls. Quite amazing compared to previous generations.

definitely the best I have seen on the non-DLP's. Epson and Sony 1080P + 4K models cannot match this test.




so... what does this mean to the 3D enthusiast? somehow JVC found a way to do a great job at controlling x-talk. closest to DLP I have seen yet. Why does it matter to the casual 3D viewer? it may not. Some folks may not see the x-talk in a movie but imo, once you see it, it will stand out.

btw - even my Flagship IMAX theater (KOP PA) will show x-talk with head movement thanks to those craptacular polarizing glasses. I hate those glasses. Active shutter all the way for my preferences.



hey... did you hear the latest JVC projectors have really nice 3D??

Damn Jason… (WOW)! I might have to bring out TS Woody just from this post… great work (looks phenomenal)!

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post #12804 of 14722 Old 12-18-2015, 06:23 PM
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Thanks for the L/R pattern shots on the RS600 Zombie. I am still amazed and impressed with whatever JVC did here to get this level of improvement! I need to track one down in Denver somewhere and check it out.
And… So it begins (I knew it would!).

Maybe a free preview in Chicago say?
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post #12805 of 14722 Old 12-18-2015, 06:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Sheraz - my speakers are left and right of the screen + center channel is below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMyers View Post
I'm waiting for the surprise! Any hints when it's coming?
I'm trying to see if I can capture some closeups to go along with the narrative. words are 1 thing but would be helpful to see closeups to provide some context.

historically I thought Reality Creation could looked too overcooked, even at the lowest settings. Certainly on the 1080P Sony models and to a lesser degree on the 4K models. While it does create a high level of perceived sharpness from seating distance, there is a cost when you look closely.


Kevin - TS Woody has made his appearance and brought his 3D glasses with him.

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post #12806 of 14722 Old 12-18-2015, 07:17 PM
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Thanks so much Zombie for the info and screens posted so far, and to pointing here from that other thread.

So the new JVC's are 120hz / 60hz per eye correct? Is the motion seem pretty acceptable to you so far? I know the BenQ W1070 dlp's and similar models (maybe the Optimas too?) support 144hz triple flash, which helps with motion in 3D, but in almost all other respects those projectors are nowhere near in the same league as these JVC's. I guess what I'm wondering is whether FI or motion smoothing works for 3D on these models and if so, does it adequately compensate for lack of 144hz triple-flash? And, if applicable, does motion smoothing in 3D on these introduce much in the way of SOE?

This is of interest in part due to my finding myself a bit spoiled by the settings I've been able to dial in on my LG passive. Low doses of motion smoothing in 3D really help, and seemingly without introducing hardly any SOE. I still do not care for motion smoothing in 2D - just personal preference and conditioning - but find myself really liking it in 3D. I've heard similar comments from some Epson owners I think.
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post #12807 of 14722 Old 12-18-2015, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
Sheraz - my speakers are left and right of the screen + center channel is below.



I'm trying to see if I can capture some closeups to go along with the narrative. words are 1 thing but would be helpful to see closeups to provide some context.

historically I thought Reality Creation could looked too overcooked, even at the lowest settings. Certainly on the 1080P Sony models and to a lesser degree on the 4K models. While it does create a high level of perceived sharpness from seating distance, there is a cost when you look closely.


Kevin - TS Woody has made his appearance and brought his 3D glasses with him.


That might be the best one yet (at least most applicable/germane to our thread for sure)!


Time for me to go GET BUSY!

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post #12808 of 14722 Old 12-18-2015, 08:15 PM
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And… So it begins (I knew it would!).

Maybe a free preview in Chicago say?
I'm on the way! Wish I could break free from work! Any ETA for your 500?
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post #12809 of 14722 Old 12-18-2015, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Hagenstein View Post
Thanks so much Zombie for the info and screens posted so far, and to pointing here from that other thread.

So the new JVC's are 120hz / 60hz per eye correct? Is the motion seem pretty acceptable to you so far? I know the BenQ W1070 dlp's and similar models (maybe the Optimas too?) support 144hz triple flash, which helps with motion in 3D, but in almost all other respects those projectors are nowhere near in the same league as these JVC's. I guess what I'm wondering is whether FI or motion smoothing works for 3D on these models and if so, does it adequately compensate for lack of 144hz triple-flash? And, if applicable, does motion smoothing in 3D on these introduce much in the way of SOE?

This is of interest in part due to my finding myself a bit spoiled by the settings I've been able to dial in on my LG passive. Low doses of motion smoothing in 3D really help, and seemingly without introducing hardly any SOE. I still do not care for motion smoothing in 2D - just personal preference and conditioning - but find myself really liking it in 3D. I've heard similar comments from some Epson owners I think.
I can only comment on my experience with the RS-400. I use CFI for 3D with my Mits DLP projector; however, I've turned it off with the JVC. I don't feel I need it in any way shape or form. I find motion in 3D with the RS-400 to be very smooth without any help -- in fact for me it borders on being too smooth. I'm not used to vertical and horizontal pans being this flawless. Maybe JVC should have added a judder enhancer control so I could add a little judder to make motion look more like what I normally see when watching movies.
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post #12810 of 14722 Old 12-18-2015, 08:42 PM
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"Time to get busy"" as in... install my new BCM bad boy (been warming 3 hours now)!
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