Projector Mini-Shootout Thread - Page 430 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 12-21-2015, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
i'm skipping KOP for Star Wars and seeing it at a local real 3D theater tomorrow night. That place is a mob scene during the holidays.

Those glasses are one of the reasons I usually avoid 3D in the theater. for my preferences, active shutter all the way.

btw, they caught onto that deal and raised the price. They must have been wondering why everyone is buying these 'Mitsubishi Only' RF glasses that just magically include an expensive RF transmitter in the kit


john - to answer you PM, the Monster Vision 3D glasses should work fine but I haven't tried them yet. Only the Xpand RF105, Epson RF and Sony RF glasses all work great so far.

Thats great zombie,


then i have not buy any 3d glasses,i hope they perform great.
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Old 12-21-2015, 10:05 AM
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2:35: 1 CinemaScope ratio

Hello,


if i wanne go to 2:35: 1 CinemaScope ratio on my upcoming JVC rs400,


Wich lens is good to get?


Best regards
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Old 12-21-2015, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john2910 View Post
Hello,


if i wanne go to 2:35: 1 CinemaScope ratio on my upcoming JVC rs400,


Wich lens is good to get?


Best regards
Best, Isco, but better have deep pockets. You can also set up the projector to do CIH using lens memory (no lens).

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Old 12-21-2015, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Best, Isco, but better have deep pockets. You can also set up the projector to do CIH using lens memory (no lens).

What do you mean with no lens?
Is this possible?


Whats CIH?


Best regards
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Old 12-21-2015, 10:20 AM - Thread Starter
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http://hometheaterphotos.com/project...016_Manual.pdf

Page 23 on how the lens memory features work. CIH is constant image height. Wait until you get the projector, it will make more sense when you see it.
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Old 12-21-2015, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
i'm skipping KOP for Star Wars and seeing it at a local real 3D theater tomorrow night. That place is a mob scene during the holidays.

Those glasses are one of the reasons I usually avoid 3D in the theater. for my preferences, active shutter all the way.

btw, they caught onto that deal and raised the price. They must have been wondering why everyone is buying these 'Mitsubishi Only' RF glasses that just magically include an expensive RF transmitter in the kit


john - to answer you PM, the Monster Vision 3D glasses should work fine but I haven't tried them yet. Only the Xpand RF105, Epson RF and Sony RF glasses all work great so far.
I saw it at KOP Friday night at 10. Wasn't too bad actually. I didn't want to see it in 3D or IMAX though. I really want to go to the Franklin Institute where they have the 70mm film print! Otherwise, KOP is usually the best bet I have from Abington area to get the best picture and sound. The movie tavern is fun, but I swear their projectors are REALLY bad! 3 times they have been horribly soft or out of focus. Really bad black levels and contrast. I am wondering if they are using 2k projectors. Shame too, because it is a nice experience.

I will say that every time I go to a theater, I miss the contrast and black level I get at home. Especially for something like Star Wars.

They did raise the price, but I think the kit is like $60ish now. Still not bad. I have a bunch of spare emitters because at some point when I ordered just glasses they sent a few kits instead
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Old 12-21-2015, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Old 12-21-2015, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
john - this will explain it and also show photos demonstrating how it works.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/blog/co...efresher-2013/

Thx i got it,


A pitty i am already at max zoom so this CIH is not possible for me.
Is the Panamorph FVX200 also a good option?
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Old 12-21-2015, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bley View Post
I set my PS4 to output 1080P/60 and I really like the motion.

What are people displaying using the info button when watching a Blu-rays? Does anyone have any recent Sony picture titles or the Mastered in 4k titles with XV Color?

I put in Total Recall Mastered in 4K and the picture was excellent. hit the info button and in displays:

Source
1080p/60
12 bit
XV Color

The Equalizer which is a Sony picture also displays:

Source
1080p/60
12 bit
XV Color

other titles I have tried info shows:

Source
1080p/60
10 bit
Color Ybr

I know the RS500/600 are 12 bit end to end but, I didn't think we had any software to display 12 bit. Isn't UHD limited to 10 bit color? I wonder if the 12 bit has something to do with XV Color on the Sony titles. Both Sony titles look excellent and I know more bits is generally better but, I'm just trying to understand a little more what is going on. This is a great projector!
I thought the new UHD disks coming out will use 8 bit processing. Where does 10 or 12 bit fit into the equation?
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Old 12-21-2015, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by lancenell View Post
I thought the new UHD disks coming out will use 8 bit processing. Where does 10 or 12 bit fit into the equation?

UHD Bluray is 10bits 4:2:0 HEVC
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Old 12-21-2015, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post
OH NO! Maybe I should have waited before purchasing the JVC -- 4K DLP + laser is about to arrive. I doubt it will be 4K + laser though -- probably a 4K lamp based projector and a different projector using a laser that isn't 4K.

https://www.avforums.com/news/optoma...ise-2016.12172
It's an Optoma, it will be overpriced and will under perform. Optoma would have to do something amazing, and there'd have to be unbiased, 3rd party proof before I'd consider giving them any of my money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by john2910 View Post
Thx i got it,


A pitty i am already at max zoom so this CIH is not possible for me.
Is the Panamorph FVX200 also a good option?
If what you mean is you want a screen wider than your projector can produce at max zoom, then no, that's not a good option. The FVX200 is a vertical compression lens, meaning it makes the image smaller vertically (same width). You need a horizontal expansion lens (Phoenix, UH480, ISCO, etc) which retains the image height but makes the image wider.
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Old 12-21-2015, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
Those glasses are one of the reasons I usually avoid 3D in the theater. for my preferences, active shutter all the way.
Do you have an opinion about the Dolby system? The big IMAX at the Pacific Science Center switched to that system that uses different wavelengths instead of polarization.

--Darin

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Old 12-21-2015, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post
UHD Bluray is 10bits 4:2:0 HEVC
I thought it had to be HDR before 10 bit was used
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Old 12-21-2015, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
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I see a lot of bickering in the VW1000 thread but not sure anyone has actually done this yet.

A/B stack with a split source. at the risk of repeating myself, there is simply no other way to accurately compare 2 projectors. A single minute of time cannot pass by where 'memory' will not interfere somehow on what someone thinks they saw.



come into the thread and let's have a discussion on your findings. Hint- start close to the screen and work your way back.
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Old 12-21-2015, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
Hint- start close to the screen and work your way back.
While that is fun, I wonder if going the other way isn't actually better. The reason being that then you can't "see" something because of a memory of seeing it.

--Darin
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Old 12-21-2015, 12:13 PM
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Not with a current generation JVC (my RS500 still isn't here ) but yes with an X500 A/B'ed with the 1100ES and the two were brightness matched. In general the differences in the image weren't as big as one might expect and often times the X500 pulled ahead with darker content. With 1080p material I didn't see the "softness" that some are expressing. Maybe the X500's I've had here (four of them) had better convergence and better lens samples.
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Old 12-21-2015, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john2910 View Post
Thx i got it,


A pitty i am already at max zoom so this CIH is not possible for me.
Is the Panamorph FVX200 also a good option?
Yes an A-lens will work for you, but need vertical expansion lens. Give us a call and we can discuss, setup and pricing.
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Old 12-21-2015, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I see a lot of bickering in the VW1000 thread but not sure anyone has actually done this yet.

A/B stack with a split source. at the risk of repeating myself, there is simply no other way to accurately compare 2 projectors. A single minute of time cannot pass by where 'memory' will not interfere somehow on what someone thinks they saw.



come into the thread and let's have a discussion on your findings. Hint- start close to the screen and work your way back.

Actually, that isn't entirely true. Motion handling differences on say Mad Max and black levels on the movie " Gravity " are easy to compare even after a couple of minutes apart. Sharpness comparisons might need an instant back and forth though. Video noise / film grain exaggeration was also easy to see ( and correct for ) turning on my VW600, then the RS600, with minutes apart, using the same Blu Ray movie, and scenes.
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Old 12-21-2015, 12:58 PM
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post
I'll bet this is what I've been complaining about -- forced CFI (to some extent) making some films look like video. We need a FW update to correct this. A good example of this forced CFI is the 3D Hercules movie starring the Rock.

I should note that the AV Forum reviewers tend to very much dislike CFI, yet they missed this problem when they did the X5000 review and discussed its 3D. Good Lord!
On the AV Forum, the reviewer Steve Withers said:

"I think there's a bug where the frame interpolation defaults to on in 3D even when it's supposed to be off. I've reported the bug to JVC. I found if you turn CMD on whilst in 3D mode and then turning it off again, it does turn off the frame interpolation."

Does this help?
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Old 12-21-2015, 01:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post
While that is fun, I wonder if going the other way isn't actually better. The reason being that then you can't "see" something because of a memory of seeing it.

--Darin
I have a specific reason for this, will explain via PM.


craig - perhaps but there is less room for error with a split source
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Old 12-21-2015, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post
Agreed. But I didn't mean to say that its the screen that's increasing it. What I meant to say is that if projector is used with very low Iris (-15/-14/-13), it will produce much higher contrast. Would you agree with this?
Now if we do put the iris is low, we are also reducing a lot of brightness. If we have a 1.0 gain screen, it will look dim. But if we are using 2.8 gain, it will be bright enough. This means that using a high gain screen, we can get bright enough image with very high contrast. Is my understanding correct?



do you mean to say that black gets blacker or more grayish?
I'm simply saying the benefits (I'm only book smart on the subject in terms of an HP screen so you'll have to get others like Zombie to feedback actual practical application & benefit), are more of an optical illusion and the laws of physics don't apply to your presumed outcome. If you clamp the iris you will get better blacks; but less light output to boot and because the physical stating point of both blacks and whites are raised from using an HP screen, you'll never be able to get the best of both worlds as your impression seems to imply (including OLED performance out of a PJ using current technology). There's no such screen/PJ combo that will do both (again IMO your room was the best thing you did in the attaining the best (of both); not that an HP will hurt (a lot on this forum swear by them), but again I don't own one so others will have to provide input on real world application benefits.


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Old 12-21-2015, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ader42 View Post
On the AV Forum, the reviewer Steve Withers said:

"I think there's a bug where the frame interpolation defaults to on in 3D even when it's supposed to be off. I've reported the bug to JVC. I found if you turn CMD on whilst in 3D mode and then turning it off again, it does turn off the frame interpolation."

Does this help?
I'll give it a try. Thanks very much.
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Old 12-21-2015, 02:55 PM - Thread Starter
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^^^ I tried that last night but eyes were too tired to see if it made a difference. Will check again tonight as well. Let us know what you think. I went back to the Sharp 30K for a frame of reference since it has no FI at all.

Kevin - good summary on the HP, it's a bit of an optical illusion that works well. even at -13 I'm getting a noticeably brighter image than a unity gain screen, pupils are cranked open - FTB is convincing because the eyes haven't had enough time to fully adapt. This worked well enough even with my older RS46 with no DI.
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Old 12-21-2015, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post
I'm simply saying the benefits (I'm only book smart on the subject in terms of an HP screen so you'll have to get others like Zombie to feedback actual practical application & benefit), are more of an optical illusion and the laws of physics don't apply to your presumed outcome. If you clamp the iris you will get better blacks; but less light output to boot and because the physical stating point of both blacks and whites are raised from using an HP screen, you'll never be able to get the best of both worlds as your impression seems to imply (including OLED performance out of a PJ using current technology). There's no such screen/PJ combo that will do both (again IMO your room was the best thing you did in the attaining the best (of both); not that an HP will hurt (a lot on this forum swear by them), but again I don't own one so others will have to provide input on real world application benefits.

@Seegs108 , @zombie10k ; or anyone else, can you please clarify the following for me?

I was under then impression that if I use a high gain screen like Da Lite 2.8, I'll be able to get the best contrast from projector. Please allow me to elaborate. My understanding is that if we can view the image without opening iris too much(-15,-14), we will get the best contrast possible. But the issue is that we end up loosing brightness as well. So if we use a high gain screen, we get the brightness due to high gain and keep iris closed or closest to being closed. Is my understanding correct?
According to Kevin in this post here Projector Mini-Shootout Thread , it will not increase contrast because high gain screen will not only increase brightness but also increase the black level (towards greyish). So you don't really end up getting higher contrast. In other words, he is saying that if I want to switch to Da Lite 2.8 purely to get better contrast, that won't be possible.

Your thoughts please?
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Old 12-21-2015, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I see a lot of bickering in the VW1000 thread but not sure anyone has actually done this yet.

A/B stack with a split source. at the risk of repeating myself, there is simply no other way to accurately compare 2 projectors. A single minute of time cannot pass by where 'memory' will not interfere somehow on what someone thinks they saw.



come into the thread and let's have a discussion on your findings. Hint- start close to the screen and work your way back.
I did this many many times with the X500 and VW1100 and to me it is the only way to test projectors to see the difference as best as possible and I do it this way every time I test projectors...

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Old 12-21-2015, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post
I'm simply saying the benefits (I'm only book smart on the subject in terms of an HP screen so you'll have to get others like Zombie to feedback actual practical application & benefit), are more of an optical illusion and the laws of physics don't apply to your presumed outcome. If you clamp the iris you will get better blacks; but less light output to boot and because the physical stating point of both blacks and whites are raised from using an HP screen, you'll never be able to get the best of both worlds as your impression seems to imply (including OLED performance out of a PJ using current technology). There's no such screen/PJ combo that will do both (again IMO your room was the best thing you did in the attaining the best (of both); not that an HP will hurt (a lot on this forum swear by them), but again I don't own one so others will have to provide input on real world application benefits.

By not getting the best of both do you mean not being able to get the brightest whites and the darkest blacks?

I'll ignore the dynamic iris for the moment as it complicates things.

Let's say a projector can provide 20 ftL for white and 0.001 ftL for black on a 1.0 gain screen and the room doesn't have any other lights on.

If you now go to a High Power and sit at a 2.0 gain position you close the iris to put out half as much light for white. Due to the physics and using a high percentage of controlled light through the engine vs off-angle light (like cutting the sides off a Bell Curve) the black is cut by more than 50% when closing the iris like this. Let's say the projector goes from 20k:1 on/off CR to 30k:1.

Now you still have 20 ftL for white for a person sitting at the 2.0 gain position, but 0.00067 for black.

Also, if you ever wanted to go brighter than 20 ftL you could with the High Power.

The dynamic iris complicates thing because the higher native on/off CR is with the iris all the way closed, but the higher dynamic on/off CR is with the manual iris set to 0. Likely more artifacts from moving across a bigger range, but a bigger range none the less.

--Darin
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Old 12-21-2015, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
^^^ I tried that last night but eyes were too tired to see if it made a difference. Will check again tonight as well. Let us know what you think. I went back to the Sharp 30K for a frame of reference since it has no FI at all.

Kevin - good summary on the HP, it's a bit of an optical illusion that works well. even at -13 I'm getting a noticeably brighter image than a unity gain screen, pupils are cranked open - FTB is convincing because the eyes haven't had enough time to fully adapt. This worked well enough even with my older RS46 with no DI.
I knew you'd know best my man. I'm certainly not trying to sway him away from HP (I was a traditionalist in HT terms for years until hearing you guys for last 6+ years and if I could I probably would… just love me AT setup too much)

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Old 12-21-2015, 05:04 PM
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By not getting the best of both do you mean not being able to get the brightest whites and the darkest blacks?

I'll ignore the dynamic iris for the moment as it complicates things.

Let's say a projector can provide 20 ftL for white and 0.001 ftL for black on a 1.0 gain screen and the room doesn't have any other lights on.

If you now go to a High Power and sit at a 2.0 gain position you close the iris to put out half as much light for white. Due to the physics and using a high percentage of controlled light through the engine vs off-angle light (like cutting the sides off a Bell Curve) the black is cut by more than 50% when closing the iris like this. Let's say the projector goes from 20k:1 on/off CR to 30k:1.

Now you still have 20 ftL for white for a person sitting at the 2.0 gain position, but 0.00067 for black.

Also, if you ever wanted to go brighter than 20 ftL you could with the High Power.

The dynamic iris complicates thing because the higher native on/off CR is with the iris all the way closed, but the higher dynamic on/off CR is with the manual iris set to 0. Likely more artifacts from moving across a bigger range, but a bigger range none the less.

--Darin
So are you saying he's right and I'm right?

So I think if I understand you from a human eye perspective that (DI not withstanding), closing down the iris decreases black at a faster perceived rate than white and by using an HP screen that physical white loss is less noticeable to the eye?

Kevin

You only live once, but if you live it right, once is enough.
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Old 12-21-2015, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ader42 View Post
On the AV Forum, the reviewer Steve Withers said:

"I think there's a bug where the frame interpolation defaults to on in 3D even when it's supposed to be off. I've reported the bug to JVC. I found if you turn CMD on whilst in 3D mode and then turning it off again, it does turn off the frame interpolation."

Does this help?

So then while in THX mode does this not apply (interpolation), because I definitely saw an improvement while testing this last night (the picture realism… not the big cut in light from the filter employed! )

Kevin

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Last edited by krichter1; 12-21-2015 at 05:37 PM.
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Old 12-21-2015, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ader42 View Post
On the AV Forum, the reviewer Steve Withers said:

"I think there's a bug where the frame interpolation defaults to on in 3D even when it's supposed to be off. I've reported the bug to JVC. I found if you turn CMD on whilst in 3D mode and then turning it off again, it does turn off the frame interpolation."

Does this help?
Yeah. That does the trick! Wow. I started playing Hugo 3D and even though CMD was off I was getting motion processing. Went into CMD and set it to 'High' and then went back in and set it to 'Off'. Soap opera effect was gone. Had to do that each time I put in another 3D movie too.

Well, at least there's a "patch" in the meantime before it is fixed.

Many thanks.
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