Projector Mini-Shootout Thread - Page 439 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!


Forum Jump: 
 2301Likes
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-31-2015, 11:54 AM
AVS Special Member
 
SherazNJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,755
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 949 Post(s)
Liked: 113
Was just reading this article for AVSForum http://www.avsforum.com/wolf-cinema-...tors-for-2016/. It points out some thing very interesting
Quote:
Wolf Cinema also offers the SDC-12 and SDC-15 as “flagship ensembles” bundled with ProScaler MK IV video processors. Jim stated “The two special editions with our latest external ProScaler MK IV video processor has an expanded CMS calibration suite, advanced noise reduction algorithms, multiple HDMI 2.0 inputs and outputs, plus E-VariScope imaging technology to eliminate top/bottom ‘black bars’ when firing onto ultra-wide 2.35:1 CinemaScope screens.”
Does anyone know if E-VariScope eliminates the top/bottom by simply masking or it digitally eliminates it in a way that ends up saving the lumens? I realize that zooming does end up loosing a lot of lumens because its wasted on top and bottom of image. I'd be great if this unit can digitally eliminate the light output above/below 2.40 and provide more where its needed (on screen).
Thx
SherazNJ is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-31-2015, 12:57 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
DavidHir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,385
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1056 Post(s)
Liked: 900
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
Obviously there are diminished returns. I agree with that. I also think the RS400 has a massive advantage against the Sony 4K models. But you have to remember that the RS400 actually has less contrast available to it compared to last year's bottom end unit (X500). Unlike last year with the X500 and X700 the difference in native contrast performance is quite a bit different between the bottom and mid-tier unit. Only 21000:1 vs. 26000:1 at full brightness and the mid tier models both years remain north of 30000:1. So at full brightness we went from a roughly 16% difference to a 30%+ difference in native contrast between the bottom and mid-tier units at full brightness and this difference in contrast transitions even when you close down the iris more and more. So I don't think Kris Deering's quote is quite as appropriate as you think it is. With that said, yes, contrast is high enough on both models where it would take the right content to show that difference off. But with the iris closed on each to brightness match one another I think that darker content will definitely show an advantage on the RS500/600. Last year the units weren't really bright enough to close the iris most of the way down or fully and still get a decent peak white level on your typical screen size. That's not the case this year and for most, if they do close the iris way down, they can still get a decent peak white reading. So this year those crazy high native contrast numbers are actually usable for most people. The RS400 is limited to around 40000:1 and the other models can get above 100000:1 and still have enough brightness for most screens. With dark content this WILL show a difference. I agree black will look good on both units, I'm not arguing against that, but one will be more convincing than the other. This is also important for those who don't want to use the DI. I probably won't use it much and this extra native contrast boost will be very helpful in lieu of a dynamic iris engaged. This year, I really think there's a valid reason to buy the mid-tier unit whereas last year I didn't because the overall performance was extremely close between the bottom and mid-tier unit. The extra brightness this year means that those crazy high contrast claims can actually be utilized on normal to large size screens, whereas last year that wasn't really the case. There are definitely diminished returns, but I feel that this year you definitely get more for the extra money. JVC obviously created this contrast scenario on purpose this year as an overwhelming majority saw there was very little reason to with the mid and top tier models last year. Not the case this year.
But cine4home already indicated that for some set-ups, the RS400 will produce just as much or slightly more contrast than the X500. If one has a smaller screen and doesn't need as many lumens, the X500 would have more contrast, for example. Someone who needs more lumens and/or has a bigger screen might get a little more contrast or at least the same with the RS400.

And then one has to account for lamp aging. As the lamp fades on the X500, the iris will need more opening to maintain same lumens as before which will reduce the contrast over time where as the RS400 having so many more lumens (in reserve if you will) and will not be as affected by this or to the same degree with some set-ups. So, I would not say the X500 has more contrast than the RS400 despite the official spec as it has to be taken in context.

Whether some want to admit it or not, the bright corners issue is a greater problem on at least some RS500/600s so aside from the center, there will not be a massive contrast improvement. Some might prefer better uniformity with the RS400 and I haven't seen many complaining of bright corners on the RS400 (or the 2014 models for that matter). If one gets a perfectly uniform RS500, then perhaps they can get 120,000:1 (or whatever high number based on their set-up) across the screen but this is turning into a panel lottery it seems. It reminds me of the clouding issues on some of the LED flat panels where some were better than others.
Deja Vu and billqs like this.


DavidHir is online now  
Old 12-31-2015, 01:44 PM
Toe
AVS Addicted Member
 
Toe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,680
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1133 Post(s)
Liked: 1419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post
Remember that the lowly RS-400's C.R. has a substantial native on/off C.R. advantage over just about all non-JVC projectors such as ALL the Sony 4K projectors. Now ask those who have seen both the JVCs and the Sony 4K machines just how big an advantage the RS-400 actually has with real content -- from everything I've read it is not nearly what you would think given the specs. Believe it or not there is something very real called the law of diminishing returns. The question is -- when does it start to kick in? If the RS-400 does extremely convincing "blacks" in space scenes, for example then what does the RS-500 do with those same scenes -- are they more convincingly black and if so what does it matter since you found the blacks extremely convincing with the RS-400.

I've referred to Kris Deering's review of the X500 several times in the past; however, I'll quote a passage from it one more time since he articulated my position best when he stated:

"I never once missed my DLA-X700R. I set up the DLA-X500R to perform every bit as well, with only the most minor hit in native contrast performance—which, I dare say, wasn’t even visible while viewing content, despite the numbers."

The SX700 has a "massive" native and dynamic on/off C.R. advantage on paper over the X500, yet with content he found it of little consequence. I agree with him and I feel this is a good example that supports my claim about the law of diminishing returns with respect to C.R.

Here's another quote -- this time from the AVForums review of the RS-400 (X5000):

"Naturally the big selling point of a JVC projector is its native blacks and contrast ratio but, despite the claimed contrast ratio actually being lower than the previous generation, we actually found that the performance was comparable to the X500…"

What I take from this is that contrast wise the RS-400 and X500 are similar and since Kris found the X500 comparable to his X700 with respect to on screen contrast then the RS-400 should also compare favourably to the X700 "despite the numbers".

I should add: We all want better projectors and I understand that position; however, at some point we need to focus on other image issues. If the cost is the same I'll take more on/off C.R. but just how much am I willing to pay for more C.R. above 50,000:1 or 100,000:1 or what about 1,000,000:1? At some point I'd rather put my money into resolution or HDR or whatever. Bigger often is better but at some point it becomes irrelevant. We each have to determine just where that point is for our needs and purposes.
Very much appreciate your real world impressions DejaVu considering you are one of the VERY few who have both the RS400 and RS500 or have seen both in the same environment. I felt this way seeing the various models at Cedia as well a few years back. The real world difference between the entry and top of the line model was not nearly what the numbers and marketing would lead you to believe.

Having said that, I would have sprung for the RS500 had I preordered this year, but after reading everything I have at this point and if I was buying now, I would lean toward the RS400 I think as it is still clearly the best bang for the buck option.
krichter1, Deja Vu and billqs like this.
Toe is online now  
Old 12-31-2015, 03:39 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
darinp2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 23,077
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 886 Post(s)
Liked: 1001
Quote:
Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post
Does anyone know if E-VariScope eliminates the top/bottom by simply masking or it digitally eliminates it in a way that ends up saving the lumens? I realize that zooming does end up loosing a lot of lumens because its wasted on top and bottom of image. I'd be great if this unit can digitally eliminate the light output above/below 2.40 and provide more where its needed (on screen).
Thx
I don't know, but wouldn't surprise me if it is an anamorphic lens option

--Darin
darinp2 is online now  
Old 12-31-2015, 03:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
alebonau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Land of Contentment :)
Posts: 2,793
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 532 Post(s)
Liked: 268
my bet is until we have uhd blu-ray in our hands ...we havent seen what the middle order can do vs the base model....

for me was an easy decision. theres wasnt enough money wise between them to get the base model and be forever left wondering gee what am I missing out on....and should I have gone the model up

"Technology is a drug. We can't get enough of it."


Welcome to my lounge room :)
alebonau is offline  
Old 12-31-2015, 03:58 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Kris Deering's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Pacific Northwet
Posts: 8,077
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1056 Post(s)
Liked: 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau View Post
my bet is until we have uhd blu-ray in our hands ...we havent seen what the middle order can do vs the base model....

for me was an easy decision. theres wasnt enough money wise between them to get the base model and be forever left wondering gee what am I missing out on....and should I have gone the model up
The big difference is full P3 support. The lower model covers about the same amount of gamut as the new Sony 665. When I looked at both HDR and non HDR content with P3 colors on the Sony, the colors always looked very off and gimmicky. Looking at the same content with the X750 has none of the same issues. Colors look remarkably more natural with great saturation. So based on the little bit of comparison I can do with P3, I've liked the true gamut coverage considerably more. But there is very little content to look at currently. I plan on watching a few movies in P3 next week and doing more comparisons to their BD counterpart.
mbw23air, Toe, DavidHir and 2 others like this.
Kris Deering is offline  
Old 12-31-2015, 04:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
alebonau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Land of Contentment :)
Posts: 2,793
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 532 Post(s)
Liked: 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
The big difference is full P3 support. The lower model covers about the same amount of gamut as the new Sony 665. When I looked at both HDR and non HDR content with P3 colors on the Sony, the colors always looked very off and gimmicky. Looking at the same content with the X750 has none of the same issues. Colors look remarkably more natural with great saturation. So based on the little bit of comparison I can do with P3, I've liked the true gamut coverage considerably more. But there is very little content to look at currently. I plan on watching a few movies in P3 next week and doing more comparisons to their BD counterpart.
that is interesting, great your planning to do that kris in the next week, look forward to your thoughts on how you find them especially vs the BD alternative.

"Technology is a drug. We can't get enough of it."


Welcome to my lounge room :)
alebonau is offline  
Old 12-31-2015, 04:45 PM
Member
 
lancenell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Spokane
Posts: 101
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
The natural mode was almost dead on for me OOTB. While Bob did a full calibration for me, we both agreed, the VERY minor changes were basically indiscernible. This mode works great for all viewing, while I manually will change FI and upscaling features dependent on what i want to watch. I keep the color mode on natural at all times though now.
That is great to hear. Steve Withers has some recommended basic picture settings. Also Art Feierman has his detailed in depth settings posted also, for $3.99 if you want to continue reading his article. Ha Ha!! Nothing is free.

I'm simply bewildered why I'm having trouble finding an ISF certified calibrator in Spokane, WA. I've been curious about the true similarities and differences that exist for the exact same projector. If 1 PJ was thoroughly calibrated, and every setting listed, if I were to copy the values exactly, I wonder if my PJ would be as accurate. I realize room & screen must also be taken into consideration, and not sure whether that just requires basic PQ settings adjustments. All I know is I want the best that my PJ can perform.
lancenell is online now  
Old 12-31-2015, 04:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Kris Deering's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Pacific Northwet
Posts: 8,077
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1056 Post(s)
Liked: 1458
Quote:
Originally Posted by lancenell View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
The natural mode was almost dead on for me OOTB. While Bob did a full calibration for me, we both agreed, the VERY minor changes were basically indiscernible. This mode works great for all viewing, while I manually will change FI and upscaling features dependent on what i want to watch. I keep the color mode on natural at all times though now.
That is great to hear. Steve Withers has some recommended basic picture settings. Also Art Feierman has his detailed in depth settings posted also, for $3.99 if you want to continue reading his article. Ha Ha!! Nothing is free.

I'm simply bewildered why I'm having trouble finding an ISF certified calibrator in Spokane, WA. I've been curious about the true similarities and differences that exist for the exact same projector. If 1 PJ was thoroughly calibrated, and every setting listed, if I were to copy the values exactly, I wonder if my PJ would be as accurate. I realize room & screen must also be taken into consideration, and not sure whether that just requires basic PQ settings adjustments. All I know is I want the best that my PJ can perform.
I've calibrated about 4 of them now and none of them have been similar when adjusting grayscale or gamma. So I wouldn't use another's settings of you want an accurate image.
alebonau likes this.
Kris Deering is offline  
Old 12-31-2015, 04:57 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
DavidHir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,385
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1056 Post(s)
Liked: 900
Hey Kris, I just sent you a PM if you get a chance...thanks!


DavidHir is online now  
Old 12-31-2015, 05:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
phisch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,853
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drexler View Post
Regarding the movie, nicely shot but I wouldn't call it a sequel as much as a remake. Have they no imagination what so ever?? It's just a mix of episode 4 and 6 doing the exact same things over again.

spoiler warning below.

Looking for plans in a Droid on a desert planet, rescuing girl from death star, knocking out shield generator in forest, blowing up said death star.

Sorry for the rant...
Many of my friends and co-workers who saw this movie had the same complaint, in that the story line of the new movie was too similar to that of the original movies.
phisch is offline  
Old 12-31-2015, 05:16 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
DavidHir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,385
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1056 Post(s)
Liked: 900
I understand the story-line was a little redone (yet still different), but I think it was a good way to reintroduce Star Wars to people and kids who had not seen the originals, or didn't remember them. There is a whole new generation out there now (and not just us 40-50 yrs old guys who grew up with it). I think they had to play it a little safe and I expect the next movie will be more creative, but I still liked it...it definitely had the 'heart and soul' of Star Wars which the prequels lacked.
Toe, gonzalc3, alebonau and 1 others like this.


DavidHir is online now  
Old 01-01-2016, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
zombie10k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 9,450
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1601 Post(s)
Liked: 1398
Reminder that the Martian 3D Bluray is being released in the US on Janauary 12th.

http://www.amazon.com/Martian-Blu-ra...dp/B01866YS0M/

you definitely want to see this 3D Bluray on the JVC.

alebonau and BruceJK like this.
zombie10k is online now  
Old 01-01-2016, 09:27 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Deja Vu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: great white north
Posts: 5,161
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 605 Post(s)
Liked: 548
Here is AVForums' review of the new Sony 520 for those interested:

https://www.avforums.com/review/sony...r-review.12100

Here are two interesting quotes from the review regarding how the new JVCs e-shift compares to the Sony's native 4K:

"At 8ft back and with brightness matched on both projectors, the Sony just edged it in native sharpness terms against E-Shift, but it was other image attributes that showed up the real differences between the two projectors, namely correct gamma on the JVC and a slightly different colour performance due to that. Moving to upscaled Blu-ray and Amazon/Netflix 4K streaming from a Fire TV box we struggled at the 8ft viewing distance to again notice any real night and day differences in resolution between the two projectors, it again came down to other attributes to see a difference. Both projectors excelled at what they do."

and,

"In fact in our testing side-by-side with what many call ‘fake’ 4K in JVC’s E-Shift technology, we found that resolution at normal viewing distances isn’t the be all and end all. In fact it is other attributes that make the image appear different and in this case the better gamma curve of the JVC just highlighted that fact (and that’s the JVC X7000 not the X9000 this projector competes with)."
RonF, billqs, DavidHir and 3 others like this.

Last edited by Deja Vu; 01-01-2016 at 10:06 AM.
Deja Vu is offline  
Old 01-01-2016, 10:00 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
zombie10k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 9,450
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1601 Post(s)
Liked: 1398
Thanks for the link. some key areas that stand out:

  • Using the two-point White balance controls we were able to flatten out the greyscale tracking (top left) and get DeltaE errors under 2, but the controls were quite coarse and we couldn’t do anything with the Gamma to completely correct the tracking to 2.4 with a brightness dip still present at the brighter end of the scale. There is software available to professional calibrators which should allow more accurate gamma tracking, but we really want to see Sony fixing this out of the box, and we didn’t have access to the software for this review.

  • Finally we gave 3D content a quick blast on the VW520ES and were treated to a very average performance for such a high-end machine. We know 3D is no longer the focus of manufacturers, but it has also been around for a number of years now and you would think that as a technology it should have matured well and just work. Well sadly the VW520ES is not the best 3D projector we have seen and it had real issues with crosstalk and ghosting, even in some not too difficult scenes.

  • As you can see the Sony VW520ES is capable of covering around 86% of the DCI gamut and nearly able to line up at key points.


  • It feels like Sony has just stood still and hasn’t pushed on with 4K native technology, wider gamut colours or HDR that works. This just feels like a bit of a let-down, especially when the price is so high and hasn’t budged in those two years. If you have a VW500ES then hang on to it and get the most out of its great performance for a few years yet. You do not need to upgrade to this model as it isn’t an upgrade.



This is not a cheap projector. Sony cannot rest on the laurels of native 4K panels, there is a lot more to the overall PQ vs. raw pixel display. I have seen this first hand with the VW1100 vs. RS600 comparison. There is no hiding behind marketing specs with this kind of real world test.

If anyone is left wondering - the 2016 JVC's are better than any of the Sony projectors in 3D (1080 and 4K models). Some may think 3D is dead but someone forget to tell the JVC engineers.
RonF, mbw23air, krichter1 and 5 others like this.
zombie10k is online now  
Old 01-01-2016, 12:28 PM
Advanced Member
 
Ximori's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Irvine, Ca
Posts: 708
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 111 Post(s)
Liked: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
Reminder that the Martian 3D Bluray is being released in the US on Janauary 12th.

http://www.amazon.com/Martian-Blu-ra...dp/B01866YS0M/

you definitely want to see this 3D Bluray on the JVC.
I heard Everest (2015) 3D is also good and will be out the following week.
Ximori is online now  
Old 01-01-2016, 12:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Deja Vu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: great white north
Posts: 5,161
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 605 Post(s)
Liked: 548
I love this thread (Zombie's shootout thread) -- this IMO is the best projector thread to ever grace the pages of AVS. There are some amazing people who post here and I encourage them to continue -- there will be a cost since the truth will ruffle some feathers. Please keep posting your insights about these projectors -- you certainly have my support and I believe the support of the vast majority of members who visit this thread. When comparisons are made there will likely be some "hot" debates about which products are best and which represent especially good value. As long as the discussions remain respectful these debates offer both perspective purchasers and current owners invaluable information -- this IMO is the prime reason why this site (and in particular this thread) remains the go to place for the truth about projectors.

Best wishes to everyone for a peaceful and prosperous New Year.
RonF, krichter1, Toe and 9 others like this.
Deja Vu is offline  
Old 01-01-2016, 01:24 PM
Senior Member
 
john2910's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 455
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
Reminder that the Martian 3D Bluray is being released in the US on Janauary 12th.

http://www.amazon.com/Martian-Blu-ra...dp/B01866YS0M/

you definitely want to see this 3D Bluray on the JVC.


I am gonne watch this now in 3d on my JVC rs400 i am very curious

Last edited by john2910; 01-01-2016 at 03:17 PM.
john2910 is offline  
Old 01-01-2016, 02:43 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,713
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 207 Post(s)
Liked: 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

As a point of reference here are the 3D projectors I currently own and regularly use -- Epson 6010, Epson 6020, Mits 7900, Mits 8000, Sharp 30000, JVC RS-400 and JVC RS-500. !...CLIPPED....!
Hey:

Mits 7900 was good, but it wasn't bright enough for me. Why do you own the 7900 and 8000?

**New Projector Calculator Released**
Access HERE from this thread

Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks
OLD --- Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

Last edited by coderguy; 01-01-2016 at 03:10 PM.
coderguy is offline  
Old 01-01-2016, 04:11 PM
Senior Member
 
john2910's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 455
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by john2910 View Post
I am gonne watch this now in 3d on my JVC rs400 i am very curious
I just finished the movie..

it was absolutly a delight to watch this 3d movie on the jvc rs400.

The space scenes were stunning.
and there were no signs of ghosting.

I did let the projector warm up for about 30 minutes.

Thx for the tip zombie for this movie.

I like to know how other projectors handle this movie in 3d.

I think the jvc is hard to beat,great performance again for the jvc in 3d!!
john2910 is offline  
Old 01-01-2016, 05:23 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Deja Vu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: great white north
Posts: 5,161
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 605 Post(s)
Liked: 548
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
Hey:

Mits 7900 was good, but it wasn't bright enough for me. Why do you own the 7900 and 8000?
Here are some reasons I own the Mits projectors -- Mits stopped making HT projectors and some retailers started to more or less give them away. I picked up a Mits 7900 for $799.00. It throws a great 3D image onto my 2.8 gain HP screen and its FI and Iris 3 work extremely well not to mention it has the best onboard 2D to 3D conversion I've seen from any projector manufacturer. Hard to beat for what I paid.
fxrh likes this.
Deja Vu is offline  
Old 01-01-2016, 06:24 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,713
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 207 Post(s)
Liked: 235
I kind of regret returning my hc7900. I cannot remember if I paid $799 or $899 (I think $899), so yah should have kept it. The problem is the same as many of you, since I knew the 8000 was probably a little better, I returned the hc7900 and was looking for an 8000 or a Sharp 30000, but couldn't find one cheap anymore. So I messed up.

Still, I wanted the Sharp xvz-30000 more than any of the others. I'm still jaded of what happened, I bought the w7000 right before the sharp came out. The w7000 has been a good projector in many ways though, it's just lacking contrast a bit.

**New Projector Calculator Released**
Access HERE from this thread

Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks
OLD --- Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....
coderguy is offline  
Old 01-02-2016, 12:21 AM
Member
 
Htnut2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 114
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post
Here is AVForums' review of the new Sony 520 for those interested:



"In fact in our testing side-by-side with what many call ‘fake’ 4K in JVC’s E-Shift technology, we found that resolution at normal viewing distances isn’t the be all and end all. In fact it is other attributes that make the image appear different and in this case the better gamma curve of the JVC just highlighted that fact (and that’s the JVC X7000 not the X9000 this projector competes with)."
I am not surprised by this. There has been so much hype about 4K that many people seem to have forgotten the basics.

Resolution is not the most important aspect of picture quality. In fact, see the attached for what ISF was teaching in 2007.

While the goalposts might have shifted somewhat, I still believe that moving to 10 bit color and a wider gamut would be a much better use of precious bandwidth than moving from 1080 to 4K
Attached Files
File Type: pdf isf.pdf (14.1 KB, 30 views)
Deja Vu and billqs like this.
Htnut2000 is online now  
Old 01-02-2016, 01:50 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
coderguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,713
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 207 Post(s)
Liked: 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Htnut2000 View Post
Resolution is not the most important aspect of picture quality. In fact, see the attached for what ISF was teaching in 2007.
I came back to the Forums after over a 1-year break right on New Year's to match everyone's hangover. I wanted to make sure I was part of their hangovers. Is that a coincidence?

The most important thing in the image is a multi-item relationship, meaning if any one thing is too bad, then that one thing suddenly becomes the most important aspect. Resolution CAN be the most important thing in the image, and also depends how close you sit and what content you are viewing. Color fidelity CAN be the most important, and so can contrast, depending on the scene or material or your viewing environment. I mean in a glazingly bright room, resolution becomes less important and suddenly LUMENS and lamberts becomes the most important. Lumens CAN be the most important.

The issue being that there are lossy processes that combine and interfere even with a non-lossy format, but our formats are lossy mostly, even though some of those lossy processes are very very good, sometimes the scalers interpretation of the decompression combining with the raw data (and things like lens quality) are not as good as the original format. Of course even a convergence error could in one manner be thought of as a lossy process. Although all of the data is there, some of the color is distorted, so some of the data is shown invalid, which in essence is almost the same as a loss of data.
Yzfbossman and catonic like this.

**New Projector Calculator Released**
Access HERE from this thread

Quick and Easy Shelf Mount Method for both one projector or dual stacks
OLD --- Coder's Top Projector Picks of 2012 --http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....

Last edited by coderguy; 01-02-2016 at 01:56 AM.
coderguy is offline  
Old 01-02-2016, 02:35 AM
Senior Member
 
catonic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 487
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 202 Post(s)
Liked: 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
I came back to the Forums after over a 1-year break right on New Year's to match everyone's hangover. I wanted to make sure I was part of their hangovers. Is that a coincidence?

The most important thing in the image is a multi-item relationship, meaning if any one thing is too bad, then that one thing suddenly becomes the most important aspect. Resolution CAN be the most important thing in the image, and also depends how close you sit and what content you are viewing. Color fidelity CAN be the most important, and so can contrast, depending on the scene or material or your viewing environment. I mean in a glazingly bright room, resolution becomes less important and suddenly LUMENS and lamberts becomes the most important. Lumens CAN be the most important.

The issue being that there are lossy processes that combine and interfere even with a non-lossy format, but our formats are lossy mostly, even though some of those lossy processes are very very good, sometimes the scalers interpretation of the decompression combining with the raw data (and things like lens quality) are not as good as the original format. Of course even a convergence error could in one manner be thought of as a lossy process. Although all of the data is there, some of the color is distorted, so some of the data is shown invalid, which in essence is almost the same as a loss of data.
Agree 100%. All the factors in image quality are inter-related and affect one another.
billqs likes this.
catonic is offline  
Old 01-02-2016, 03:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
RonF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Sunny SoCal
Posts: 2,000
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 208 Post(s)
Liked: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ximori View Post
I heard Everest (2015) 3D is also good and will be out the following week.
It is, I saw it in the old digital IMAX 3D setup at AMC. A couple scenes will pucker your sphincter muscle unless your name's Craig Peer here.
Ximori likes this.
RonF is offline  
Old 01-02-2016, 03:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
RonF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Sunny SoCal
Posts: 2,000
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 208 Post(s)
Liked: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post
I came back to the Forums after over a 1-year break right on New Year's to match everyone's hangover. I wanted to make sure I was part of their hangovers. Is that a coincidence?

The most important thing in the image is a multi-item relationship, meaning if any one thing is too bad, then that one thing suddenly becomes the most important aspect. Resolution CAN be the most important thing in the image, and also depends how close you sit and what content you are viewing. Color fidelity CAN be the most important, and so can contrast, depending on the scene or material or your viewing environment. I mean in a glazingly bright room, resolution becomes less important and suddenly LUMENS and lamberts becomes the most important. Lumens CAN be the most important.

The issue being that there are lossy processes that combine and interfere even with a non-lossy format, but our formats are lossy mostly, even though some of those lossy processes are very very good, sometimes the scalers interpretation of the decompression combining with the raw data (and things like lens quality) are not as good as the original format. Of course even a convergence error could in one manner be thought of as a lossy process. Although all of the data is there, some of the color is distorted, so some of the data is shown invalid, which in essence is almost the same as a loss of data.
I have an interesting test I'm going to be able to run at some point soon. I've talked about how great the 1080P photos I've hand picked of spectacular locations around the world from the interfacelift site look with high enhance setting on the 500 and 34 on the Darblet. A little while ago I confirmed that some newer photos I saved in 2160P from the site on a flash drive could be played as 4K source material with the drive inserted in the Roku 4. So I'm going to hunt back quite a ways in pages now and find some of the more recent older ones if they can be downloaded in 2160P now as well, and A/B compare the 4K versions with whatever enhance setting looks good in the MPC controls and NO Darbee vs the 1080P versions with the Darbee on the PS3. Get them both cued up and then I can change back and forth between HDMI 1 with the Roku 4 4K display and HDMI 2 with the PS3 with the 1080P. I'm kind of having the hunch right now that the 4K versions may not win in every situation, since the eShift 4 is so good now with 1080P plus the always amazing Darbee with pristine images.
RonF is offline  
Old 01-02-2016, 08:37 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Deja Vu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: great white north
Posts: 5,161
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 605 Post(s)
Liked: 548
For those interested here is the link to AVForums best projector picks for 2015:

https://www.avforums.com/article/bes...ojectors.12174

AVForums has not as yet posted its review of the X7000 (RS600) but judging from what it had to say about it I suspect it will be a "killer" review. For example, here's a quote:

"The X7000 delivers a fantastic picture, regardless of the nature of the source, with gorgeous deep blacks and wonderful colour accuracy. The images are natural and detailed, creating a marvellous film-like quality and the X7000 is brighter this year, primarily to support HDR. The superb blacks and increased brightness result in an improved contrast performance and the out-of-the-box greyscale and colour accuracy were very good…"

I also fully agree with everything AVForums had to say about the X5000 (RS400) -- very positive.
krichter1 and BruceJK like this.

Last edited by Deja Vu; 01-02-2016 at 08:43 AM.
Deja Vu is offline  
Old 01-02-2016, 09:11 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Seegs108's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 7,880
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2773 Post(s)
Liked: 1143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuning View Post
Got my projector recently. Can someone help me with the following:

1. How to test for convergence?
2. How to test bright corners?
3. Anything else I should check to make sure I don't have a bad one?

Thanks for your help.
There is a test pattern built into the projector to check convergence. The pattern is enabled when you enter the convergence software in the menu system. Check your user manual if you aren't sure where it is. If you hit the "blank" button on the remote it will show an all black image. This is a good way to look to see what your unit looks like in the corners. Note that ALL units will have some bright corners to a varying degree. It's only if the issue is excessively bad will it warrant a return/replacement. And an issue with this is that most people don't have the proper experience seeing many JVC units to judge the severity of the issue. So while a first time JVC owner sees them, he/she doesn't really know how bad it actually is in context to what an "acceptable" level is. I would say only worry if you can see the issue with regular film content. And if you'd like you can do the paper method and post a picture on the forum if you'd like a second opinion on how bad it is on your unit.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
My Crazy Projector Journey!!
Seegs108 is online now  
Old 01-02-2016, 09:18 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 43
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
There is a test pattern built into the projector to check convergence. The pattern is enabled when you enter the convergence software in the menu system. Check your user manual if you aren't sure where it is. If you hit the "blank" button on the remote it will show an all black image. This is a good way to look to see what your unit looks like in the corners. Note that ALL units will have some bright corners to a varying degree. It's only if the issue is excessively bad will it warrant a return/replacement. And an issue with this is that most people don't have the proper experience seeing many JVC units to judge the severity of the issue. So while a first time JVC owner sees them, he/she doesn't really know how bad it actually is in context to what an "acceptable" level is. I would say only worry if you can see the issue with regular film content. And if you'd like you can do the paper method and post a picture on the forum if you'd like a second opinion on how bad it is on your unit.
Thanks Seegs. Very much appreciated. I think I know where to go for this. I think it is the pixel adjust after selecting blue or red color choice, right? When checking for convergence what am I looking for?

Anything else I should be checking for besides these two?
Tuning is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
 

Tags
Benq W7000 Home Projection System , Jvc Dla Rs55 Bundle , Jvc Dla Rs45 Home Theater Projector 1080p Hdmi , Epson V11h502020 Powerlite Home Cinema 3020e 2d And 3d 1080p Wireless Home Theater Projector , Sony Vpl Hw50es 3d Projector , Epson 5010 Powerlite Home Cinema 3d Front Projector , Epson Powerlite Home Cinema 3010 2d And 3d Projector V11h421020 , Panasonic Ptae8000u Hd Projector , Mitsubishi Hc7900dw Home Theater 3d Projector , Mitsubishi Hc8000dbl Dlp 3d Home Theater Projector With Spare Lamp 1300 Ansi 12 6 Lbs , Darbeevision Darblet Hdmi Video Processor , Epson 5020ub Powerlite Home Cinema 3d Front Projector
Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off