Projector Mini-Shootout Thread - Page 457 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #13681 of 14265 Old 01-28-2016, 01:56 PM
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Any comments on setting up the RS500 projector as per the recommendations in the avforum review (color profile - standard, color temp - 7500) versus zombie10k's recommendation?


I tried the avforum settings last night and thought the colours looked a little more accurate, but that was by eye and with the delay switching settings its difficult to do a visual A-B comparison due to the delay. I'm waiting for the updated autocal software with spyder5 support before doing anything serious with calibration.
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post #13682 of 14265 Old 01-28-2016, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris Dallas View Post
David, I bought some Goo to try it out & loved it. I am using one of my walls & painted the Goo & let me tell you it looks fantastic. I believe the gain is 1.1 not sure. I figured if Universal & many other studios use this why not give it a try especially when going this big & glad I did. The immersion of this magnitude is way more important than black level imo and the Sony 500ES is actually not that bad in the blacks either. I am about 12-13 feet back from the screen and It's an experience I find more immersive & better because of the way I am positioned than being at the theater.

Here is Goo and the companies that use them world-wide.
I don't care, am feeling "loud" and "proud" that the only sensible way with Screen Goo in its early days here on AVS to do what I did in my first Media room in my step down den in the house, (not dedicated separate standing theater now outside) ...... with a combination MIX of the old school Hi Gain Goo [around 2.2 gain] and regular higher-than-unity gain Goo [maybe 1.3 (?)] ......when these choices of highest quality "Screen Paint" material first came on market ...... would have been to "spray" it on the wall. Nope!! I "rolled" a proportioned higher gain mix of the two, around 1.8 gain over an entire wall 10' high and over a door and down the other side so the wall looked the same, in a step down den to yield me a coincidentally same size 8'5" wide 16x9 screen area surface as my outside theater with also "old school" 2.8 Hi Power screen material. Terrifying experience as I could not go more than two or three times over the same roller marks without the rapid drying of the paint and pattern of the roller becoming visible with that kind of crazy "paint" gain being visible after drying, and with this "paint" being very expensive. Plus all of the preparation sanding & prep with the previously painted entire wall. Most sane "types" that used the Goo sprayed it on. It turned out great! 1.8 gain give or take a tiny bit by my ratio and math with the 2 mixtures with a fairly wide light dispersion "area" due to the not perfect texture even after rotary sanding and irregularity of the prepped surface underneath.

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post #13683 of 14265 Old 01-28-2016, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
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it's interesting to hear the different perspectives on this. Another member just swapped out their VW600 for the RS600 and commented how sharp it looks once it was set up correctly. Hopefully you tried the JVC and Epson with the e-shift turned off for 1080P content.

The best way to have tested both projectors would have been a stack with a split source. I logged about 20 hours of split source testing with the VW1100 and the RS600. The VW1100 lens is definitely better than the VW500/600. There was no day/night difference in perceived sharpness sitting ~ 14 from my 142". If anything, I found the reality creation too aggressive and would have had to run a dedicated HTPC for scaling 1080P BD's.



The good news is, if you like the VW500/600 you currently have, it will work well enough with the first UHD releases (just no P3 support or HDR). save money - get another cool car.
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post #13684 of 14265 Old 01-28-2016, 02:49 PM
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Zombie, have you had a chance to see an LS10000 in action? If not, I'm scheduling a little meet with a forum member in Western Massachusetts that's going to happen within the next two weeks (we haven't decided on a specific date yet). I'll have an RS400 and RS500 and his dealer is bringing an LS10000 which has a very old firmware on it. We plan to measure it before and after the firmware update to see if there's a lumen output change and/or other changes to performance. I may bring one or two other projectors with me depending on what I have here at the time.
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post #13685 of 14265 Old 01-28-2016, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
Zombie, have you had a chance to see an LS10000 in action? If not, I'm scheduling a little meet with a forum member in Western Massachusetts that's going to happen within the next two weeks (we haven't decided on a specific date yet). I'll have an RS400 and RS500 and his dealer is bringing an LS10000 which has a very old firmware on it. We plan to measure it before and after the firmware update to see if there's a lumen output change and/or other changes to performance. I may bring one or two other projectors with me depending on what I have here at the time.
negative, that sounds like a fun get together. Can you bring some 4K sources to take a look at? curious to hear your thoughts in this area. Below are the close up screenshots with 4K content between both models from the recent reviews that WW posted.

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/159606

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/159616

max lumen output on all 3 models @ D65 would be appreciated as well.
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post #13686 of 14265 Old 01-28-2016, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris Dallas View Post
It's a basement with a games room & a workout room so not quite a true home theater as I did this for the kids and my mother-in-law as simple as possible they have friends over every few days and have a blast but from time to time I do get a chance to enjoy a nice flick on this screen. A few pics can be seen here
Chris it was fun having you over.

I love the look of that huge screen in your home theater! I'm a big fan of sitting centered to the screen, which means a screen lower than most set-ups, and I like how yours goes from floor to ceiling. I'm sure it feels like you could practically fall into the picture!
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post #13687 of 14265 Old 01-28-2016, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
negative, that sounds like a fun get together. Can you bring some 4K sources to take a look at? curious to hear your thoughts in this area. Below are the close up screenshots with 4K content between both models from the recent reviews that WW posted.

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/159606

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/159616

max lumen output on all 3 models @ D65 would be appreciated as well.
We'll see what we can do. BTW that was me inviting you if you're interested in coming.

I'm extremely interested in seeing if eshift performance has increased. There are claims that it has with newer firmwares. I plan on doing some up close photographs of the eshift process on each unit. I'll bring some 4K content with me as well to test on both units.
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post #13688 of 14265 Old 01-28-2016, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post
Image sharpness reduction/more image noise: Yes. But for contrast, yes it will reduce it due to more brightness but that the same time it allows me to bring iris down which will increase contrast. before I was using ~60% (a guess) of zoom and had iris at -3. Now I'm using max zoom but iris is set to -6. So I think I ended up getting more contrast . As for sharpness, with darbee in chain with 35 value, clear black off, MPC Enhancement to 3, I get very very good sharpness. May be it would be more with less zoom but one has to A/B to see the difference.

Funny how I used to think that Sony 600ES had sharper image. But after watching some other titles (Oblivion/Maze Runner/Black Sail), I think JVC has far more sharp image. I end up saying wowww many times. If only it can get rid of that noise, it would be a jaw dropping image.

@SherazNJ - I saw this update on the JVC thread. This sounds different from your original impressions. What was different? running e-shift off, MPC settings + Darbee?
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post #13689 of 14265 Old 01-28-2016, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
Zombie, have you had a chance to see an LS10000 in action? If not, I'm scheduling a little meet with a forum member in Western Massachusetts that's going to happen within the next two weeks (we haven't decided on a specific date yet). I'll have an RS400 and RS500 and his dealer is bringing an LS10000 which has a very old firmware on it. We plan to measure it before and after the firmware update to see if there's a lumen output change and/or other changes to performance. I may bring one or two other projectors with me depending on what I have here at the time.
Cant wait to see your findings, especially with the before and after lumens on the LS10000, at least this will put the story to bed.

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post #13690 of 14265 Old 01-28-2016, 05:37 PM
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Recently I was offered a trade for my Sharp XV-Z17000 for a Mitsubishi HC-5 (same unit as the HC9000) and I took it. I've been getting a lot of flak recently about me exposing some issues with Sony 4K projectors and I've been branded as a "Sony hater" by some on the forum. Well, the Mitsubishi HC-5 is a great reason why I think Sony just does a terrible job at engineering LCoS projectors. The native performance of the HC5-/C9000 is just staggering compared to any 1080p SXRD projector Sony has ever produced. When you factor in this was Mitsubishi's first attempt at creating a projector based around Sony's technology it's really sad that Sony, who's been at this for a lot longer than Mitsubishi, has never been able to reach this level of native performance. Mitsubishi managed to pack in ~1000 lumens of peak white brightness, 20,000:1 native on/off contrast performance (at full brightness), 450:1 ANSI contrast performance, a great lens that can resolve pixels far better than any 1080p HW or VW series Sony unit that I've seen (that includes a HW30ES, HW50ES and a VW90ES), a higher quality video processing suite, equally impressive low noise, and a more beautiful higher quality chassis. They did this, while needing to pay Sony a premium to buy their micro-display, at a competitive price to JVC and Sony VW 1080p projectors at the time. And again, this was their first attempt at an LCoS projector. I just need to ask the question; the hell is Sony doing wrong? They manufacture their own micro-displays (SXRD) so they know ALL the ins and outs of the performance of the chips, they have at their disposal an agreement with Zeiss to manufacture quality lenses at low prices and teams of engineers at their disposal to create light engines and video processing to suit SXRD to it's fullest potential and yet we see Mitsubishi outclass any 1080p projector they ever made in basically every important facet of image quality on their first attempt. Yes, the HC5 is not without flaws. They never really got the dynamic iris working properly and 3D performance is pretty lack-luster which is reminiscent of the VW90ES 3D performance, but everything else is easily better than any 1080p Sony projector ever made. It really makes me upset that Sony is so...irresponsible. Their technology obviously has more potential performance than they give us as shown by the HC5. It makes me wonder what another company could do if they let someone else licence their 4K panels. Hell, it makes me wonder what Mitsubishi could have done with a second try. They were on the edge of getting JVC like contrast. Just another 20% boost in contrast and they would've been there and if they got a DI to work properly it could have been amazing. Tie that in with the stellar ANSI contrast and motion performance and it could have been easily the best 2D 1080p projector on the market. SMH Sony....
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post #13691 of 14265 Old 01-28-2016, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
negative, that sounds like a fun get together. Can you bring some 4K sources to take a look at? curious to hear your thoughts in this area. Below are the close up screenshots with 4K content between both models from the recent reviews that WW posted.

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/159606

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/159616

max lumen output on all 3 models @ D65 would be appreciated as well.
Does anyone else see these two screenshots as contradictory to each other? ... and possibly mislabeled?

In the first comparison the mouse on (supposedly the Epson) appears to be less detailed, with clearly visible pixels, and a much warmer color temp. In the second screenshot these exact same qualities seem to be on the the mouse off (supposedly JVC) image.

Am I blind, or is my trackpad broken?

Pip
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post #13692 of 14265 Old 01-28-2016, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
Recently I was offered a trade for my Sharp XV-Z17000 for a Mitsubishi HC-5 (same unit as the HC9000) and I took it. I've been getting a lot of flak recently about me exposing some issues with Sony 4K projectors and I've been branded as a "Sony hater" by some on the forum. Well, the Mitsubishi HC-5 is a great reason why I think Sony just does a terrible job at engineering LCoS projectors. The native performance of the HC5-/C9000 is just staggering compared to any 1080p SXRD projector Sony has ever produced. When you factor in this was Mitsubishi's first attempt at creating a projector based around Sony's technology it's really sad that Sony, who's been at this for a lot longer than Mitsubishi, has never been able to reach this level of native performance. Mitsubishi managed to pack in ~1000 lumens of peak white brightness, 20,000:1 native on/off contrast performance (at full brightness), 450:1 ANSI contrast performance, a great lens that can resolve pixels far better than any 1080p HW or VW series Sony unit that I've seen (that includes a HW30ES, HW50ES and a VW90ES), a higher quality video processing suite, equally impressive low noise, and a more beautiful higher quality chassis. They did this, while needing to pay Sony a premium to buy their micro-display, at a competitive price to JVC and Sony VW 1080p projectors at the time. And again, this was their first attempt at an LCoS projector. I just need to ask the question; the hell is Sony doing wrong? They manufacture their own micro-displays (SXRD) so they know ALL the ins and outs of the performance of the chips, they have at their disposal an agreement with Zeiss to manufacture quality lenses at low prices and teams of engineers at their disposal to create light engines and video processing to suit SXRD to it's fullest potential and yet we see Mitsubishi outclass any 1080p projector they ever made in basically every important facet of image quality on their first attempt. Yes, the HC5 is not without flaws. They never really got the dynamic iris working properly and 3D performance is pretty lack-luster which is reminiscent of the VW90ES 3D performance, but everything else is easily better than any 1080p Sony projector ever made. It really makes me upset that Sony is so...irresponsible. Their technology obviously has more potential performance than they give us as shown by the HC5. It makes me wonder what another company could do if they let someone else licence their 4K panels. Hell, it makes me wonder what Mitsubishi could have done with a second try. They were on the edge of getting JVC like contrast. Just another 20% boost in contrast and they would've been there and if they got a DI to work properly it could have been amazing. Tie that in with the stellar ANSI contrast and motion performance and it could have been easily the best 2D 1080p projector on the market. SMH Sony....
I think Mitsubishi units are quite underrated on the boards here. If they could have gotten the DI to work better the HC5 would have been fantastic. Every Mitsubishi unit I have here had a great lens and solid processing. I think Sony is Sony. They have solid products but most of them should be better than they are. Unfortunately, I think they feel there products are good enough.
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post #13693 of 14265 Old 01-28-2016, 07:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Pip View Post
Does anyone else see these two screenshots as contradictory to each other? ... and possibly mislabeled?

In the first comparison the mouse on (supposedly the Epson) appears to be less detailed, with clearly visible pixels, and a much warmer color temp. In the second screenshot these exact same qualities seem to be on the the mouse off (supposedly JVC) image.

Am I blind, or is my trackpad broken?

Pip
Hi, yes, the 2nd one is backwards. thanks for pointing that out.

These are from this review. With some of the e-shift implementations you can still see slight pixel structure.

RS500

https://translate.google.com/transla...%2F&edit-text=

Epson LS10K

https://translate.google.com/transla...%2F&edit-text=


Epson LS10K - e-shift off



JVC Rs500 - e-shift off




Epson LS10K - e-shift on (1080P source)



JVC - e-shift on (1080P source)




Epson LS10k - UHD native



JVC - UHD Native






Epson LS10K - e-shift off



JVC Rs500 - e-shift off




Epson LS10K - e-shift on (1080P source)



JVC - e-shift on (1080P source)




Epson LS10k - UHD native



JVC - UHD Native

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post #13694 of 14265 Old 01-28-2016, 08:17 PM
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Here's that shot of the boat when both are fed the UHD signal. What's interesting is that the Epson looks sharper in native 1080p mode (though it could be due to higher pixel fill on the JVC?), but with eshift enabled and fed the UHD signal the Epson looks softer. I'm assuming this is due to the optical softness issue that I saw when I first demo'ed the LS10000. I hope to take some close up shots like this when I do my comparison.

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/159866
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post #13695 of 14265 Old 01-28-2016, 08:43 PM
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On my RS500 with eshift enabled Directv looks a tad softer.
4K material eshift is automatically enable but looks very sharp.
Not sure how 4K can look any better than how the JVC displays.
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post #13696 of 14265 Old 01-29-2016, 02:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
Hell, it makes me wonder what Mitsubishi could have done with a second try. They were on the edge of getting JVC like contrast. Just another 20% boost in contrast and they would've been there and if they got a DI to work properly it could have been amazing. Tie that in with the stellar ANSI contrast and motion performance and it could have been easily the best 2D 1080p projector on the market. SMH Sony....
Do you know how many hours are on that HC5? Curios if it was also affected by the SXRD contrast degradation. Do you notice the posterization/banding issues as well?
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post #13697 of 14265 Old 01-29-2016, 05:19 AM
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Do you know how many hours are on that HC5? Curios if it was also affected by the SXRD contrast degradation. Do you notice the posterization/banding issues as well?
If you're interested this thread is loaded with info on HC5: Official Mitsubishi HC5 Owners Thread

And the answer to your last question is positive.
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post #13698 of 14265 Old 01-29-2016, 07:16 AM
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Do you know how many hours are on that HC5? Curios if it was also affected by the SXRD contrast degradation. Do you notice the posterization/banding issues as well?
There are about 500 hours on this unit. I measured right around 20000:1 so there doesn't seem to be any degradation yet. No, there's no posterization issues. That is something only the 4K projectors suffer from it seems. Sony Europe told Andreas21 the posterization comes from the panel drivers. The drivers they're using can't seem to send enough color information on a per-pixel basis and this is why there's posterization and banding.
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post #13699 of 14265 Old 01-29-2016, 08:32 AM
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Zombie, have you had a chance to see an LS10000 in action? If not, I'm scheduling a little meet with a forum member in Western Massachusetts that's going to happen within the next two weeks (we haven't decided on a specific date yet). I'll have an RS400 and RS500 and his dealer is bringing an LS10000 which has a very old firmware on it. We plan to measure it before and after the firmware update to see if there's a lumen output change and/or other changes to performance. I may bring one or two other projectors with me depending on what I have here at the time.
Keep in mind the possible brightness increase took place at the v118 software. There is only one other firmware older I believe, v115, which is what the first shipped with.

Would it be possible to do this comparison blind (hehe, well sort of I guess)? I can already see a pretty solid amount of bias just in the posts I have read, so really the results of such a comparison from an overall standpoint would essentially be null otherwise. I mean, we can all stand there and stare at test patterns and ultra zoomed in shots for pixel deliniation and such, but it's actually how content is reproduced overall ya know? The total experience?
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post #13700 of 14265 Old 01-29-2016, 08:40 AM
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Keep in mind the possible brightness increase took place at the v118 software. There is only one other firmware older I believe, v115, which is what the first shipped with.

Would it be possible to do this comparison blind (hehe, well sort of I guess)? I can already see a pretty solid amount of bias just in the posts I have read, so really the results of such a comparison from an overall standpoint would essentially be null otherwise. I mean, we can all stand there and stare at test patterns and ultra zoomed in shots for pixel deliniation and such, but it's actually how content is reproduced overall ya know? The total experience?
This unit is from the first batch of units that made it to the US last year and hasn't been updated. I'm going to guess this is v115, but I will check the firmware version when I get there. I won't be the only person there so others can chime in with their opinions on how things looked. Why do you think I have a biased opinion? When I saw the LS10000 last year it was obvious to the four of us in the room that the X500 was the better projector for a lot less. If I sound "biased" you're mistaking that for my opinion on which unit threw the better image while we had the two brightness matched projecting right next to one another. It would be biased of me to make conclusions on assumptions made without ever having done a comparison. But that's not the case and the reason why I say the JVC is better is because I've seen it with my own two eyes. The "total experience" was better to all four of us with the X500. Now that people are claiming higher performance with a newer firmware I want to see if this holds true.
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post #13701 of 14265 Old 01-29-2016, 09:12 AM
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The Epson has become my go to projector and I now have to remind myself to use the others. I love the guilt free convenience of turning this projector on and off at my whim -- much liked a T.V. I don't know how you attach a value to that -- for me it's worth a lot. I use it for Netflix, the news, Youtube and so on.

Also, the fades to black is another thing that is important to me but I suspect I'm pretty much alone with that one too. I went to a lot of effort and expense to coax my Sony G90 to do complete fades and hold them and that was the one thing about the G90 I missed with digital (my Mits 7900/8000 will do this but not as convincingly) until the Epson. Most fades occur between mid APL scenes so any missing black level steps are pretty much moot. When a scene goes from a mixed low APL scene to a fade and then back to a mixed low APL scene the Epson still does a reasonable job since it's dynamic contrast (in my case) should be around 150,000:1 (manual iris maxed for a native contrast of around 30,000:1 multiplied by 5 for the laser modulation = 150,000:1). In fact I've been surprised at just how well it handles these transitions. The one thing I don't like is when the projector is syncing and goes from a blank screen showing its native contrast to full black and then back and forth a few times -- now you notice the missing steps. With actual content (and laser modulation doing its thing), which is normally comprised of mixed scenes it's pretty good and often is excellent.

I had some issues with moire (silver grills, silver suite cases, some checkered clothing. etc.). I seemed to have found a solution -- I turned off the de-interlacing in the menu and now let my Teranex processor or Oppo BD player handle this.

Like the JVCs the Epson has a motion setting, which is distinct from its CFI. It seems to work very well -- I haven't been using the CFI, only the motion enhancement and motion isn't an issue (at least for me).

I'm going back and revisit some 3D. This is the one area that I'm a little disappointed about -- then again I'm pretty fussy when it comes to 3D (and I suspect my 2.8 gain screen exacerbates any ghosting I'm seeing). I've toned down both the depth and intensity settings for the 3D conversion my Teranex does and the 2D conversion to 3D looks great with both the Epson and JVCs. The Epson also does a good job at converting 2D to 3D; however, my Teranex does it better so after taking a look at how the Epson does it I usually go back to the Teranex.

I going to put a note on my RS500 to remind myself that it's up to bat next.
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post #13702 of 14265 Old 01-29-2016, 09:43 AM
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There are about 500 hours on this unit. I measured right around 20000:1 so there doesn't seem to be any degradation yet. No, there's no posterization issues. That is something only the 4K projectors suffer from it seems. Sony Europe told Andreas21 the posterization comes from the panel drivers. The drivers they're using can't seem to send enough color information on a per-pixel basis and this is why there's posterization and banding.
Interesting. Since we don't know the contrast when new, I guess we can't be 100% sure it didn't degrade but 20K:1 is at the top-end of native SXRD. So likely no degradation yet. So what did Sony do wrong on their 1080p units? I remember the Sonys were always very quiet compared to competitors. Maybe their panels were overheating? Could be some lamp difference (less uv), or maybe Mitsubishi has some clever compensation.

Regarding posterization/banding, that is definitely not unique to the 4K models. If you search far enough back you will find people complain about it as far back as the VW60. I briefly had a VW85 that suffered from it to the point where I had to sell it after only a few weeks. It showed up mostly on darker colors near black. At the time, I remember seeing it first in the scene where the main character meets a woman in a cave in Shutter Island. I think this had to do with the fact that SXRD panels were driven with an analog voltage while JVC employs PWM to get more gradation steps.

How is the HC5 with other common LCOS issues like bright-corners, vertical-streaking, internal-reflections, or discoloration on gray fields?
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post #13703 of 14265 Old 01-29-2016, 09:47 AM
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When a scene goes from a mixed low APL scene to a fade and then back to a mixed low APL scene the Epson still does a reasonable job since it's dynamic contrast (in my case) should be around 150,000:1 (manual iris maxed for a native contrast of around 30,000:1 multiplied by 5 for the laser modulation = 150,000:1).
Surprised you're getting enough light output with iris fully closed down to 11. Even with your 2.8 HP. Is that at maximum lamp power? Fans not too noisy at that setting which should be equal to a JVC at high lamp.
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post #13704 of 14265 Old 01-29-2016, 09:48 AM
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Interesting. Since we don't know the contrast when new, I guess we can't be 100% sure it didn't degrade but 20K:1 is at the top-end of native SXRD. So likely no degradation yet. So what did Sony do wrong on their 1080p units? I remember the Sonys were always very quiet compared to competitors. Maybe their panels were overheating? Could be some lamp difference (less uv), or maybe Mitsubishi has some clever compensation.

Regarding posterization/banding, that is definitely not unique to the 4K models. If you search far enough back you will find people complain about it as far back as the VW60. I briefly had a VW85 that suffered from it to the point where I had to sell it after only a few weeks. It showed up mostly on darker colors near black. At the time, I remember seeing it first in the scene where the main character meets a woman in a cave in Shutter Island. I think this had to do with the fact that SXRD panels were driven with an analog voltage while JVC employs PWM to get more gradation steps.

How is the HC5 with other common LCOS issues like bright-corners, vertical-streaking, internal-reflections, or discoloration on gray fields?
The 4K SXRD panels are driven digitally and the issue still persists. It is 100% not there on this Mitsubishi. I've looked several times up at the screen for it with content I distinctly remember seeing it on with the 1100ES. As far as contrast goes, there are plenty of new units that were measured around 20000:1 at the beginning. I'm at 500 hours and see no degradation yet or issues with posterization. Color uniformity is also excellent. You don't see any of the odd purple/green discoloration that you get on Sony units.This HC5 is better than the $28000 1100ES in this regard. I see no internal reflections either. There is some mild vertical streaking, similar to what I saw on the VW1100ES. There are some bright corners but they are dramatically effected in terms of visibility depending on which iris position you choose to use.
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post #13705 of 14265 Old 01-29-2016, 09:51 AM
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There are about 500 hours on this unit. I measured right around 20000:1 so there doesn't seem to be any degradation yet. No, there's no posterization issues. That is something only the 4K projectors suffer from it seems. Sony Europe told Andreas21 the posterization comes from the panel drivers. The drivers they're using can't seem to send enough color information on a per-pixel basis and this is why there's posterization and banding.
Unfortunately, I can confirm that the Mitsubishi's SXRD have the same problem of panel's degradation as Sony HW/VW (and atually, many other problems relative to motherboard and power). It's not so unlikely because this is one of the high powered SXRD projector released a few years ago. And due to the lack of a good cooling system inside, the SXRD panels suffer progressively from light leaks. I saw two HC9000 with a catastrophic contrast performance after a few thousands of hours (and not just because of the gamma drop).
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post #13706 of 14265 Old 01-29-2016, 09:58 AM
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Unfortunately, I can confirm that the Mitsubishi's SXRD have the same problem of panel's degradation as Sony HW/VW (and atually, many other problems relative to motherboard and power). It's not so unlikely because this is one of the high powered SXRD projector released a few years ago. And due to the lack of a good cooling system inside, the SXRD panels suffer progressively from light leaks. I saw two HC9000 with a catastrophic contrast performance after a few thousands of hours (and not just because of the gamma drop).
I remember reading that Mitsubishi got a lot of help from the Sony engineers when creating this projector so it would make sense that it uses similar hardware and techniques that the HW/VW line of 1080p projectors use. The 1100ES was only seeing 500-1000 hours before a catastrophic loss in contrast. I guess these units have a little bit more life in them. Come'on Sony... get your **** together..
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post #13707 of 14265 Old 01-29-2016, 10:01 AM
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Hello there at the moment i need to put the JVC further away to get the picture on my screen filled.


But i cant and i am already at max zoom.


Now i can rearange my room and put everything the other way around and make a hole in the wall to put the projector further away.


But then i need to hang the screen almost on the ground(a couple off inches)


Is this even watchable? My eyes are on the centre of the screen then.


the screen is 105 inch
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post #13708 of 14265 Old 01-29-2016, 10:57 AM
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The Epson has become my go to projector and I now have to remind myself to use the others. I love the guilt free convenience of turning this projector on and off at my whim -- much liked a T.V. I don't know how you attach a value to that -- for me it's worth a lot. I use it for Netflix, the news, Youtube and so on.

Also, the fades to black is another thing that is important to me but I suspect I'm pretty much alone with that one too. I went to a lot of effort and expense to coax my Sony G90 to do complete fades and hold them and that was the one thing about the G90 I missed with digital (my Mits 7900/8000 will do this but not as convincingly) until the Epson. Most fades occur between mid APL scenes so any missing black level steps are pretty much moot. When a scene goes from a mixed low APL scene to a fade and then back to a mixed low APL scene the Epson still does a reasonable job since it's dynamic contrast (in my case) should be around 150,000:1 (manual iris maxed for a native contrast of around 30,000:1 multiplied by 5 for the laser modulation = 150,000:1). In fact I've been surprised at just how well it handles these transitions. The one thing I don't like is when the projector is syncing and goes from a blank screen showing its native contrast to full black and then back and forth a few times -- now you notice the missing steps. With actual content (and laser modulation doing its thing), which is normally comprised of mixed scenes it's pretty good and often is excellent.

I had some issues with moire (silver grills, silver suite cases, some checkered clothing. etc.). I seemed to have found a solution -- I turned off the de-interlacing in the menu and now let my Teranex processor or Oppo BD player handle this.

Like the JVCs the Epson has a motion setting, which is distinct from its CFI. It seems to work very well -- I haven't been using the CFI, only the motion enhancement and motion isn't an issue (at least for me).

I'm going back and revisit some 3D. This is the one area that I'm a little disappointed about -- then again I'm pretty fussy when it comes to 3D (and I suspect my 2.8 gain screen exacerbates any ghosting I'm seeing). I've toned down both the depth and intensity settings for the 3D conversion my Teranex does and the 2D conversion to 3D looks great with both the Epson and JVCs. The Epson also does a good job at converting 2D to 3D; however, my Teranex does it better so after taking a look at how the Epson does it I usually go back to the Teranex.

I going to put a note on my RS500 to remind myself that it's up to bat next.
Fade to "true" black isn't as important to me as it is to you. What I found on the LS10000 is that the fade TO black was convincing, but coming back out of it was not. So for me this feature is an artifact that I'd prefer not be there at all. This was similar to the Sony 1100ES, whose iris would close considerably more for an image near all black or pure all black and the yo-yo effect of the contrast enhancement made it look like something "odd" was happening. You could tell it wasn't "native" performance. For me at least, I find an image that looks completely stable the most appealing. This year the JVC can allow you to have it's iris fully closed and still give you enough brightness on modest sized screens. I found this level of black quite amazing that I'd only enable the DI on particularly dark content as the iris can go a tad more closed than the manual iris allows when in dynamic mode. The DI on the Epson just isn't convincing enough on fade to blacks for me so I'm not a fan of this feature. If they can get native contrast to be higher then it may prove to be more convincing so until then I remain a little underwhelmed by this feature and would prefer it to not be there or have another mode that doesn't do it. Again, this is MY take on it. Other may like it more than me. That was the only thing about the Epson's DI that I didn't like. Any other time it was better than the JVCs, but on the JVCs now I don't find you need it enabled to get world class contrast so at least you have the option to disable it.

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post #13709 of 14265 Old 01-29-2016, 01:41 PM
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@SherazNJ - I saw this update on the JVC thread. This sounds different from your original impressions. What was different? running e-shift off, MPC settings + Darbee?
The answer is not straight forward. Before I share my impression of JVC after doing some changes and spending time on it, I would like to point out that I still think that Sony 600ES did a much better job at hiding the image noise. Here is a perfect example "Gravity". Watching "Gravity" on Sony, I could hardly see any image noise. Yes its there but it was hardly visible. I had to look for it to see its there. It was low enough that it didn't catch my attention. With RS500, that wasn't the case. Image noise was very visible. Even after I turned all the image processing, it was there. So in terms of image noise reduction, Sony is a winner.

Then later on I tried on titles like Hobbits and Maze Runner and Black Sals. These title have no image noise at all. Now I could pay more attention to the image itself and woowwww. JVC really showed how sharp the image is. There is one scene in Maze runner in the beginning where Markus is talking to this child and the child mentions to him about the maze the very first time. He looks at the high walls and starts walking towards them. During this walk, the camera takes the shot of Markus as he's walking and shows the grass around him. With Sony, the grass was a lot more blurrier than JVC. I couldn't see good detail of grass on Sony until I use Darbee. Not with JVC. JVC with clear black low and MPC Enh at 2, I could see the details in grass. Then turning clear black off and turning darbee on to 35 makes is that much better. Black sails is another title that looks super sharp with JVC. Same with Hobbits.

So what it comes down to is that if the movie is low image noise, JVC will make it look amazing. But, if the movie has a little heavy image noise, it will make that noise obvious enough that it will draw your attention to it. At least in my case it does since I'm coming form Sony 600ES background.

What's more is that a few days ago, I moved my 145" 2.40 screen (1.0 gain) from 12.5' to 10' to get max zoom. It also provides amazing immersize experience. The drawback is that now its going to make the bad quality image look worse. What I have noticed though is that all new titles are very good in picture quality. So hopefully won't have too much of image noise issue.

My Current Setting:

Profile: custom
Color Profile: Custom (using Super White instead auto)
Gamma: Custom 2.4.
Contrast: 7
Brightness: 8
Clear Black: off
e-shift: off
MPC enhance: 2
MPC dynamic contrast: 2
Darbee: 35
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post #13710 of 14265 Old 01-29-2016, 02:07 PM
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Has any one compared the RS 400 and the RS500?
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