Projector Mini-Shootout Thread - Page 460 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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Old 02-01-2016, 05:19 AM
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Last night, for the first time, I think I finaly understand why so many people love the JVC. I watch Netflix TV Serie Marco Polo in 4k.

Wow, not every source shine on the JVC but this one do look spectacular! This show have a lot of low light scene. The extrem low black level on the JVC really help to give the image a sens of depth that my VW1100 cannot touch.

I watch the show recently on my VW1100 and even if it was in 4k and the VW1100 is a true 4k projector, this show look much better on the RS500. To me the extra resolution of the Sony is not a factor here.

Having said that, I still found that with sports and poor transfer, the vid?o processing of the Sony do a better job. Also, on bright scene like sports and comedie movie, etc., the Sony show a bit more image deph and a tad better sharpness.

The thing I begin to realize, is the advantage of the Sony in bright scene are "small" improvment over the JVC, welcome for sure but still small. As for the JVC, the very low black level is a drastic improvment that do make a big difference for low light scene.

Continu my testing...
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Old 02-01-2016, 05:35 AM
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Unhappy Can't decide!

I am buying a projector mid- to late-March

Going back and forth between:
Epson LS10000
JVC RS400
JVC RS600

I think I would be happy with 2D from either, though the Epsons brightness uniformity is nice as is its fade to black and brightness consistency.

For 3D, while JVC has better crosstalk it only has 96hz glasses and I am sensitive to flicker. Epson has 120hz glasses but I'm also sensitive to crosstalk.

I guess I have to figure out if flicker or crosstalk is more likely to produce headaches in myself and guests... or hope Optoma pulls a hail mary with their 4k LED DLP pj...
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Old 02-01-2016, 06:02 AM
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I am buying a projector mid- to late-March

Going back and forth between:
Epson LS10000
JVC RS400
JVC RS600

I think I would be happy with 2D from either, though the Epsons brightness uniformity is nice as is its fade to black and brightness consistency.

For 3D, while JVC has better crosstalk it only has 96hz glasses and I am sensitive to flicker. Epson has 120hz glasses but I'm also sensitive to crosstalk.

I guess I have to figure out if flicker or crosstalk is more likely to produce headaches in myself and guests... or hope Optoma pulls a hail mary with their 4k LED DLP pj...
Why is the RS500 not included?

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Old 02-01-2016, 06:09 AM
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Why is the RS500 not included?
Figure I'd go either budget or whole-hog.

All of these projectors have compromises in attempting to deliver UHD obviously. Worth noting, I think the LS10000 might have best resale in 3yrs when there are less compromises because lamp may be looked as a dinosaur technology by then. Although the lack of HDR in specs may also hurt Epson resale even if practical benefit is small.

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Old 02-01-2016, 07:03 AM
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Worth noting, I think the LS10000 might have best resale in 3yrs when there are less compromises because lamp may be looked as a dinosaur technology by then.
Except we still don't know the cost (or if it's possible) to have the Laser engine replaced. It could be the opposite since you can just swap lamps in a JVC but the Epson's laser could (we don't know) be prohibitively expensive to replace.
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Old 02-01-2016, 07:21 AM
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I can't speak for the streaking because I've never been bothered by that from seating distance but the internal reflections are something that is present on all JVC models. I bet if you and David re-watched that movie on your old projectors and carefully looked at scenes where there is nothing but a single light on a black background, you would see that light reflecting across to other parts of the screen. I've seen this on every model of JVC - RS40, RS57, RS600. If you're not aware it's caused by the projector, you may just think it's part of how it was filmed. I only realized it was an artifact because the reflections would change independently when playing with lens-shift. If you're very lucky, sometimes the reflections may fall off the edge of your screen depending on setup and where the bright objects are in the frame. You can never eliminate it completely.
The definitive test would be to compare the scene on my RS4810 to my Samsung F5300B plasma. However, to re-emphasize my point earlier: there was something on both RS400s that was not there on my RS4810. Whatever may be there on my RS4810 is not distracting in the least and I consider myself to have a pretty sharp eye having owned a wide array of professionally calibrated displays for the last 15 years. I'm probably AVS forum's most sensitive member to screen texture.

Another example just as a test is with the Oppo screensaver that floats around on the black background. On my RS4810, sitting almost 11 feet back there is very light streaking from the letters (vertically) that can just barely be seen. I mean it's very, very subtle and you have to almost look for it. With both RS400s, it was shocking to see how prominent and bold it was - even with both projectors brightness matched to around 12 ftL. In fact, I ran across this coincidently which prompted me to test out The Descent as I didn't want to have to see this or bright corners on content. Maybe I have a good sample RS4810, I don't know. But something was definitely amiss with the two RS400s. Note, my dedicated room is carpeted and painted black along with Protostar near the edges of the screen.

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Old 02-01-2016, 07:28 AM
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Except we still don't know the cost (or if it's possible) to have the Laser engine replaced. It could be the opposite since you can just swap lamps in a JVC but the Epson's laser could (we don't know) be prohibitively expensive to replace.
I don't see myself being more than 6000-7000 hours by 3yrs so still plenty of life left (14000+) for next user.

Also I believe its the phosphor wheel that needs replacing which shouldn't be ridiculously expensive.
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Old 02-01-2016, 09:20 AM
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I don't see myself being more than 6000-7000 hours by 3yrs so still plenty of life left (14000+) for next user.

I have an ls10000, and hopefully, if it lasts anywhere near as long as specified... Even 3 years at an average use of 2 hours a day totals less than 2500 hours!
I run it on normal/medium power and even after a couple of hours the casing does not feel hot and the air coming out the vents is surprisingly only mildly warm.
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Old 02-01-2016, 09:31 AM
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The definitive test would be to compare the scene on my RS4810 to my Samsung F5300B plasma. However, to re-emphasize my point earlier: there was something on both RS400s that was not there on my RS4810. Whatever may be there on my RS4810 is not distracting in the least and I consider myself to have a pretty sharp eye having owned a wide array of professionally calibrated displays for the last 15 years. I'm probably AVS forum's most sensitive member to screen texture.
I think I'd give you a run for the money there.

Screen surface texture has been my bugaboo ever since I started shopping for flat panels in 2001. I couldn't stand seeing the screen texture - the dreaded "silk screen" effect - on RPTVs of the time, be it CRT or DLP. Nor the non-uniformity of their pictures. LCD flat screens had (and still have to a degree) a visible surface texture due to the way they work. It was only plasma in which provided to my eyes the purest image experience. With properly controlled lighting so you don't get reflections on the screen, the glass is completely invisible and you are staring at an image that is directly illuminated, unmediated by any texture in between. That purity was a huge reason I loved plasmas over any other technology (CRTs came close for similar reasons, but I liked the precision of the plasma images).

So the same concerns have carried over to projection and my home theater. The only reason I went for any gain on my screen was I just needed it at the time, given the screen size I wanted and the light output of the JVC projectors.
But, I'm still scheming about a move to an ST100 screen at some point.

Though, something very interesting has happened. For some reason, I'm not sure what it is, the image of the RS600 looks different to me from my previous JVCs in the way I've been describing: more realistic - a combination of smoothness, sharpness, detail and image density that make me feel more like I'm peering at the real thing than a screen.
I get the sensation of my screen "disappearing" when watching the RS600 more consistently than with my previous projectors, so this has me thinking I'll be ok with the ST130 screen for a while longer yet.
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Old 02-01-2016, 09:54 AM
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I think I'd give you a run for the money there.

Screen surface texture has been my bugaboo ever since I started shopping for flat panels in 2001. I couldn't stand seeing the screen texture - the dreaded "silk screen" effect - on RPTVs of the time, be it CRT or DLP. Nor the non-uniformity of their pictures. LCD flat screens had (and still have to a degree) a visible surface texture due to the way they work. It was only plasma in which provided to my eyes the purest image experience. With properly controlled lighting so you don't get reflections on the screen, the glass is completely invisible and you are staring at an image that is directly illuminated, unmediated by any texture in between. That purity was a huge reason I loved plasmas over any other technology (CRTs came close for similar reasons, but I liked the precision of the plasma images).

So the same concerns have carried over to projection and my home theater. The only reason I went for any gain on my screen was I just needed it at the time, given the screen size I wanted and the light output of the JVC projectors.
But, I'm still scheming about a move to an ST100 screen at some point.

Though, something very interesting has happened. For some reason, I'm not sure what it is, the image of the RS600 looks different to me from my previous JVCs in the way I've been describing: more realistic - a combination of smoothness, sharpness, detail and image density that make me feel more like I'm peering at the real thing than a screen.
I get the sensation of my screen "disappearing" when watching the RS600 more consistently than with my previous projectors, so this has me thinking I'll be ok with the ST130 screen for a while longer yet
.
I get that sense of realism too. I'm really looking forward to seeing what 4K UHD BR brings to the table in this regard.
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Old 02-01-2016, 10:34 AM
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I get that sense of realism too. I'm really looking forward to seeing what 4K UHD BR brings to the table in this regard.

I'm hoping UHD blu ray meets everyone's expectations.
On the other hand if it looks too good regular HD will look like garbage.
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Old 02-01-2016, 10:37 AM
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I'm hoping UHD blu ray meets everyone's expectations.
On the other hand if it looks too good regular HD will look like garbage.
I think the HDR implementation will be most significant, at least from what Scott W. says.

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Old 02-01-2016, 10:54 AM
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The think the HDR implementation will be most significant, at least from what Scott W. says.
I think for projectors though HDR's benefit will be minimal for now. I think the wider color gamut will be most key.
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Old 02-01-2016, 11:01 AM
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I think I'd give you a run for the money there.

Screen surface texture has been my bugaboo ever since I started shopping for flat panels in 2001. I couldn't stand seeing the screen texture - the dreaded "silk screen" effect - on RPTVs of the time, be it CRT or DLP. Nor the non-uniformity of their pictures. LCD flat screens had (and still have to a degree) a visible surface texture due to the way they work. It was only plasma in which provided to my eyes the purest image experience. With properly controlled lighting so you don't get reflections on the screen, the glass is completely invisible and you are staring at an image that is directly illuminated, unmediated by any texture in between. That purity was a huge reason I loved plasmas over any other technology (CRTs came close for similar reasons, but I liked the precision of the plasma images).


So the same concerns have carried over to projection and my home theater. The only reason I went for any gain on my screen was I just needed it at the time, given the screen size I wanted and the light output of the JVC projectors.
But, I'm still scheming about a move to an ST100 screen at some point.

Though, something very interesting has happened. For some reason, I'm not sure what it is, the image of the RS600 looks different to me from my previous JVCs in the way I've been describing: more realistic - a combination of smoothness, sharpness, detail and image density that make me feel more like I'm peering at the real thing than a screen.
I get the sensation of my screen "disappearing" when watching the RS600 more consistently than with my previous projectors, so this has me thinking I'll be ok with the ST130 screen for a while longer yet.
My Panasonic VT60 (actually all of them) suffered from some slight "dirty screen effect" noticeable on panning scenes against a white background (snow, for example). Interestingly enough, this wasn't on the prior Panasonic plasma I had before that one (ST30).

My Sony SXRD RPTV had rather notable "silk screen effect" and heavy sparkle. I tried to forget about it, but it was tough. My friend bought the same TV and called me one day. "Hey Dave, I think something is wrong with my SXRD. I'm seeing what looks like sparkle such as when you look out of a window in the winter time and there is frost on it, but only on brighter scenes." I never thought of it that way before.

I really like my ST100 screen a lot having tried out two other screens and highly recommend to it everyone so long as it can meet their other viewing priorities and set-up. It really contributes to the ultimate film-like look (ala my video nirvana) that I try to achieve.

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Old 02-01-2016, 11:05 AM
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I think for projectors though HDR's benefit will be minimal for now. I think the wider color gamut will be most key.
I'm really looking for an answer to this. Specifically the question is what will the delta be between having the player do some canned HDR/WCG->SDR/709 mapping vs letting an HDR/WCG aware projector do it? Will it be like dropping all the way back to a Rec709 graded copy (ie Blu-ray) or will we still get the benefits of the remastering and PQ gamma, but translated to a protocol the SDR display understands?

To put it another way, if you had an RS4910, would UHD Blu-ray look like regular HD/Blu-ray on the RS4910, or would it look essentially the same as the RS400 except for the highlights being half as bright?

I keep waffling back and forth on if I want to get a UHD Blu-ray player right off the bat and find out myself, or wait for reports.
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Old 02-01-2016, 11:08 AM
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I'm really looking for an answer to this. Specifically the question is what will the delta be between having the player do some canned HDR/WCG->SDR/709 mapping vs letting an HDR/WCG aware projector do it? Will it be like dropping all the way back to a Rec709 graded copy (ie Blu-ray) or will we still get the benefits of the remastering and PQ gamma, but translated to a protocol the SDR display understands?

To put it another way, if you had an RS4910, would UHD Blu-ray look like regular HD/Blu-ray on the RS4910, or would it look essentially the same as the RS400 except for the highlights being half as bright?

I keep waffling back and forth on if I want to get a UHD Blu-ray player right off the bat and find out myself, or wait for reports.
Agreed. I'm sure (hoping) Kris Deering will be able to look into this once he gets his hand on a UHD player.
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Old 02-01-2016, 11:36 AM
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Yeah, I was originally thinking that without an HDR projector you'd lose all the HDR benefits (like when you get the SDR UHD on Vudu when you don't have a Dolby Vision display/player). But thinking about it, unlike Vudu, who can store entirely separate SDR and HDR/DV versions of a film, UHD BDs have only one, HDR, version of the movie on the disc. Which means it really becomes a question of what device does the better job mapping the HDR encode down to "SDR" (or close to it for HDR-capable projector owners).

It seems to me it will be much more a question like decoding vs bitstreaming audio, or where deinterlacing/scaling happens than the "all or nothing" I was originally expecting.
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Old 02-01-2016, 12:38 PM
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I'm really looking for an answer to this. Specifically the question is what will the delta be between having the player do some canned HDR/WCG->SDR/709 mapping vs letting an HDR/WCG aware projector do it? Will it be like dropping all the way back to a Rec709 graded copy (ie Blu-ray) or will we still get the benefits of the remastering and PQ gamma, but translated to a protocol the SDR display understands?

To put it another way, if you had an RS4910, would UHD Blu-ray look like regular HD/Blu-ray on the RS4910, or would it look essentially the same as the RS400 except for the highlights being half as bright?
Do we know if it is possible to map a PQ gamma curve (at an assumed common mastering luminance target) to BT1886 using an external 3D LUT? Assume an HDFury Integral or similar so no HDCP issue and 2.0a HDR spoofing.

Assuming its not all or nothing, I'd be interested in comparing the overall image quality for my current use case of using an e-shift non-HDR compatible projector (LS10000 or similarly JVC RS57) given a Radiance Pro is not in the budget, starting from a UHD 3840p24 BT2020 HDR PQ-gamma source:

(1) UHD player converts to 3840p24 4:2:0 8-bit BT1886 P3 (or rec709 if player can't clip/translate to P3 primaries)

(2) UHD player converts to 1080p24 4:4:4 "HDR" with no conversion of 10-bit, BT2020 primaries, or PQ gamma -- then use a 3D LUT (eecolor or Lumagen non-Pro) to re-map BT2020 primaries to P3 and PQ gamma into BT.1886. With the increased chroma resolution and e-shift maybe the sharpness would be similar to 3840p input yet we retain 10-bit and WCG with hopefully similar or better PQ to BT1886 mapping.
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Old 02-01-2016, 01:04 PM
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I'm hoping UHD blu ray meets everyone's expectations.
On the other hand if it looks too good regular HD will look like garbage.
Well, let's look at it this way - if 4K UHD BR makes regular BR look to us like DVD does now compared to BR, we win ! We have that picture upgrade we hoped for !
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Old 02-01-2016, 01:17 PM
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Do we know if it is possible to map a PQ gamma curve (at an assumed common mastering luminance target) to BT1886 using an external 3D LUT? Assume an HDFury Integral or similar so no HDCP issue and 2.0a HDR spoofing.
madVR can do this on a PC, so it's "possible". But my point is this is what the UHD Blu-ray players will have to do standard, in order to work on non HDR displays.

Though I was sort of disappointed to see that there are no settings in the Samsung player to control this. Maybe it will be possible to spoof WCG support (but not HDR) with the integral and then I can try a Rec.2020 profile on my RS4910.
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Old 02-01-2016, 01:53 PM
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According to my inside source WCG WILL be handled separately than HDR in UHD Blu-ray players. But it still sounds like the player is going to decide what it should or shouldn't put out based on the EDID info, which could lead to frustrations. I would rather the player had something built into the output setup that you can say yes or no to HDR since even though we have some projectors that support it, I'm not sure if I'll actually want it in the long run given the limitations. Guess we're all in a wait and see pattern for a bit.
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Old 02-01-2016, 02:52 PM
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madVR can do this on a PC, so it's "possible". But my point is this is what the UHD Blu-ray players will have to do standard, in order to work on non HDR displays.

Though I was sort of disappointed to see that there are no settings in the Samsung player to control this. Maybe it will be possible to spoof WCG support (but not HDR) with the integral and then I can try a Rec.2020 profile on my RS4910.
I'm extremely skeptical that automated down-conversion from HDR/2020 to SDR/709 will produce results as good as a regular 1080p SDR disc. Those discs are custom tuned and mastered by a human for every scene to make them look as good as possible on older displays. I think these new 4K HDR discs are going to be of little benefit on older displays for anything but resolution. Resolution by itself will not be a huge improvement because of typical viewing distance/screen-size and because many of the discs don't start from true 4K source material anyway. Maybe we'll get a slight reduction in banding on discs that weren't compressed well.

Since I don't have any HDR displays, I will wait for some blind testing results before spending more money replacing my 1080p Blurays.
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Old 02-01-2016, 03:01 PM
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Another example just as a test is with the Oppo screensaver that floats around on the black background. On my RS4810, sitting almost 11 feet back there is very light streaking from the letters (vertically) that can just barely be seen. I mean it's very, very subtle and you have to almost look for it. With both RS400s, it was shocking to see how prominent and bold it was - even with both projectors brightness matched to around 12 ftL. In fact, I ran across this coincidently which prompted me to test out The Descent as I didn't want to have to see this or bright corners on content. Maybe I have a good sample RS4810, I don't know. But something was definitely amiss with the two RS400s. Note, my dedicated room is carpeted and painted black along with Protostar near the edges of the screen.
If you don't see the reflections on the Oppo screensaver then you're probably immune. I even see them from the small pause icon on my BD player. You must have gotten an exceptionally good sample of the RS4810.

Have not seen the RS400 yet. Streaking on the RS600 was about the same as RS40/RS57 for me. Same for internal reflections.
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Old 02-01-2016, 03:27 PM
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According to my inside source WCG WILL be handled separately than HDR in UHD Blu-ray players. But it still sounds like the player is going to decide what it should or shouldn't put out based on the EDID info, which could lead to frustrations. I would rather the player had something built into the output setup that you can say yes or no to HDR since even though we have some projectors that support it, I'm not sure if I'll actually want it in the long run given the limitations. Guess we're all in a wait and see pattern for a bit.
Yeah, I'd rather see a setting, but at least that implies that an Integral should be able to "force" it via EDID tweaking, which should be interesting.

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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
I'm extremely skeptical that automated down-conversion from HDR/2020 to SDR/709 will produce results as good as a regular 1080p SDR disc. Those discs are custom tuned and mastered by a human for every scene to make them look as good as possible on older displays.
I don't think it's as dire as that. There are a number of demo clips here linked here, and I think without exception I found the HDR/PQ clips rendered with madVR to the Rec709 clips, and that was just on my PC monitor, not an HDR display. I think the 8 bit Rec.709 "gamma" coding is more limiting that a lot of folks realize.
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Old 02-01-2016, 04:02 PM
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If you don't see the reflections on the Oppo screensaver then you're probably immune. I even see them from the small pause icon on my BD player. You must have gotten an exceptionally good sample of the RS4810.

Have not seen the RS400 yet. Streaking on the RS600 was about the same as RS40/RS57 for me. Same for internal reflections.
Well, I do see them on the Oppo screensaver from my seating position...but as mentioned...really very subtle.
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Old 02-01-2016, 10:28 PM
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I think I'd give you a run for the money there.

Screen surface texture has been my bugaboo ever since I started shopping for flat panels in 2001. I couldn't stand seeing the screen texture - the dreaded "silk screen" effect - on RPTVs of the time, be it CRT or DLP. Nor the non-uniformity of their pictures. LCD flat screens had (and still have to a degree) a visible surface texture due to the way they work. It was only plasma in which provided to my eyes the purest image experience. With properly controlled lighting so you don't get reflections on the screen, the glass is completely invisible and you are staring at an image that is directly illuminated, unmediated by any texture in between. That purity was a huge reason I loved plasmas over any other technology (CRTs came close for similar reasons, but I liked the precision of the plasma images).

So the same concerns have carried over to projection and my home theater. The only reason I went for any gain on my screen was I just needed it at the time, given the screen size I wanted and the light output of the JVC projectors.
But, I'm still scheming about a move to an ST100 screen at some point.

Though, something very interesting has happened. For some reason, I'm not sure what it is, the image of the RS600 looks different to me from my previous JVCs in the way I've been describing: more realistic - a combination of smoothness, sharpness, detail and image density that make me feel more like I'm peering at the real thing than a screen.
I get the sensation of my screen "disappearing" when watching the RS600 more consistently than with my previous projectors, so this has me thinking I'll be ok with the ST130 screen for a while longer yet.
I get some shimmer from my Dalite Cinemavision screen. Probably cause it's at the throw closest to the screen. Would be a real pain to move the RS500 back but I'm still considering it. I want the complete disappearance of image, kind of like the plasma-esque picture I used to get from my old HP screen.

JVC RS500, Denon 7200WA, 7.2.4 Atmos/DTSX dedicated Theater. 133" Dalite 1.3 screen. M&K S150 + K7 ear level, 4 Tannoy DC overheads.
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Old 02-01-2016, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
I don't think it's as dire as that. There are a number of demo clips here linked here, and I think without exception I found the HDR/PQ clips rendered with madVR to the Rec709 clips, and that was just on my PC monitor, not an HDR display. I think the 8 bit Rec.709 "gamma" coding is more limiting that a lot of folks realize.
If that were true, then what's been stopping studios from encoding the benefits of HDR on their discs the last few years? Anything MadVR can do and output to your 8-bit monitor could have been applied to the source video before it was ever encoded on the old 8-bit Blurays. I guess if your monitor displays all levels from 0-255 you have a tiny bit more dynamic range vs. the native 16-235 but that seems insignificant. And as I said before, MadVR will apply the same logic to every frame vs. a human colorist doing this per scene in a regular Bluray to preserve the most important dark and bright details. Until proven otherwise, I remain unconvinced that there's anything useful on these new 4K discs unless you have a new 4K/HDR/P3 capable display. I'm sure they'll look different but that's not necessarily better.

I guess we'll know in a few more weeks. I'm not placing any pre-orders until then.
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Old 02-02-2016, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
My Panasonic VT60 (actually all of them) suffered from some slight "dirty screen effect" noticeable on panning scenes against a white background (snow, for example). Interestingly enough, this wasn't on the prior Panasonic plasma I had before that one (ST30).
That's weird, I haven't heard of that problem with any plasma before. What would cause it? I definitely didn't have that artifact on my older Panny plasma.

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My Sony SXRD RPTV had rather notable "silk screen effect" and heavy sparkle. I tried to forget about it, but it was tough. My friend bought the same TV and called me one day. "Hey Dave, I think something is wrong with my SXRD. I'm seeing what looks like sparkle such as when you look out of a window in the winter time and there is frost on it, but only on brighter scenes." I never thought of it that way before.
That's a good way of describing it.

My friend who owns a small Grawolf screen - gray screen with gain - is finally noticing it's strong screen artifacts. Unfortunately it might have something to do with the fact that, when we try to focus his projector on the screen it's impossible, because the screen coating blurs the pixel structure so much you can't focus. We have to put a sheet of paper
up instead to focus on. When I recently played some scenes from Gravity on his set up - he's using my RS57 without changes to picture settings - I was amazed to see the screen actually made details I'm familiar with disappear! Like it just couldn't resolve certain fine details. I've always noticed how intrusive that grain was on the image, but never would mention it to him because once you see it....

(Another thing I've noticed is that, at least to my eyes, some screen artifacts give the impression of being in front of the image, others behind the image. For instance, when I'm watching no one of the many gray screens with heavy optical coating, it's like I'm trying to see through a dirty/speckly layer to the image behind it. But my Carada Brilliant White material was far less intrusive and I only spotted any texture on brighter areas, and then it was like a slight sheen of the screen such that I was aware the light was projected on to a screen - so a "behind" the image effect, which I found much less annoying than the "trying to see through screen texture" problem).

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Old 02-02-2016, 08:42 AM
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Except we still don't know the cost (or if it's possible) to have the Laser engine replaced. It could be the opposite since you can just swap lamps in a JVC but the Epson's laser could (we don't know) be prohibitively expensive to replace.
Yes, and what's the cost of swapping some panels out of my RS500? Problems with the LS10000 are speculative at best. Problems with my RS500 are fact!

Good god, I own both of these projectors and from where I sit it's the JVC that has the issues. Every time someone says anything positive about the LS10000 someone else attempts to diminish it by stating something that may or may not happen -- yes, it is a valid point concerning the longevity of the laser but it should not detract from the issues concerning the JVCs. There is a serious negative with my RS500 and every time I turn it on I see it. I'm tired of people here WHO DO NOT OWN AND LIVE WITH THE LS10000 criticizing it based on what? Their personal experience with it. Not likely! I've been monitoring my usage with the RS400, RS500 and the LS10000 and it's very telling. I've had the LS10000 for the shortest period of time and yet it has the most hours. That tells me that it's the go to monitor for just about everything -- internet, Netflix, etc. It certainly isn't perfect but please tell me what has it done to some members here to deserve such distain. Is it because it dares to challenge the high and mighty JVC line of projectors? We need some serious competition to JVC in order that JVC will make an effort to clean up its quality control -- at least regarding its panels. There are alternatives to JVC and to my mind that's a good thing.

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Old 02-02-2016, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post
Yes, and what's the cost of swapping some panels out of my RS500? Problems with the LS10000 are speculative at best. Problems with my RS500 are fact!

Good god, I own both of these projectors and from where I sit it's the JVC that has the issues. Every time someone says anything positive about the LS10000 someone else attempts to diminish it by stating something that may or may not happen -- yes, it is a valid point concerning the longevity of the laser but it should not detract from the issues concerning the JVCs. There is a serious negative with my RS500 and every time I turn it on I see it. I'm tired of people here WHO DO NOT OWN AND LIVE WITH THE LS10000 criticizing it based on what? Their personal experience with it. Not likely! I've been monitoring my usage with the RS400, RS500 and the LS10000 and it's very telling. I've had the LS10000 for the shortest period of time and yet it has the most hours. That tells me that it's the go to monitor for just about everything -- internet, Netflix, etc. It certainly isn't perfect but please tell me what has it done to some members here to deserve such distain. Is it because it dares to challenge the high and mighty JVC line of projectors? We need some serious competition to JVC in order that JVC will make an effort to clean up its quality control -- at least regarding its panels. There are alternatives to JVC and to my mind that's a good thing.
If you go by use, then my go to display is a 52" TV. I certainly would not use that criteria to say that my TV is my best display. Rather than use that as a basis, I would use, what display do you use for critical viewing. It may be the same display, but I think that is a better judge.
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