Projector Mini-Shootout Thread - Page 462 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #13831 of 14250 Old 02-04-2016, 12:09 PM
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All,


I am in the process of considering an upgrade from my trusty X70/RS55 to an X700/RS57. I am mainly interested in the 3D performance, which I believe will be substantially better, and the DI that will improve contrast. What other improvements might I expect? Are there any reasons not to consider the upgrade, is the RS70 better in some respects? Finally, what would be good used price for an X700/RS57?


Many thanks for your input!


John
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post #13832 of 14250 Old 02-04-2016, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nohjy View Post
All,


I am in the process of considering an upgrade from my trusty X70/RS55 to an X700/RS57. I am mainly interested in the 3D performance, which I believe will be substantially better, and the DI that will improve contrast. What other improvements might I expect? Are there any reasons not to consider the upgrade, is the RS70 better in some respects? Finally, what would be good used price for an X700/RS57?


Many thanks for your input!


John
If you are going to upgrade, I would skip the RS57 and upgrade to the RS400. 3D performance with RS400 will be much better, Projector is much brighter, motion is better, contrast will be close between then, unless you are using the 55 or 57 with the iris closed a fair amount. The 400 also allows you to play 4K BD. If we can help answer your questions, give us a call.

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post #13833 of 14250 Old 02-04-2016, 02:00 PM
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I just did a quick side by side test with the RS600 and the Sony VW520 and there was 5 people present at this 4 hour test. I calibrated both to rec.709 and a 2.35 power gamma just before the test started so both were showing their best. They were brightness matched at 16fl in both 16x9 mode and 2.35:1 mode and we only tested with BD material as there was no time to check out 4K. The RS600 had 30 hours on it and the Sony VW520 had about 20.

I also took some measurements and the Sony HW520 was quite good when it comes to on/off contrast and it measured about 15000:1 with the iris wide open and about 20000:1 with it closed down in Auto Full it measured 225000:1. It also was almost perfect out of the box with slight oversaturated colors and linear grayscale and gamma. I only did a lightning lut with Calman and an eeColor due to the limited time we had. I will follow this VW520 in the future and will take measurements every 100 hours to see if there is any contrast drop. I also measured the fl with the iris at full open and low lamp and the Sony measured 24 fl and the JVC 28fl and at this setting the JVC has 43000:1 on/off and the Sony 15000:1. Brightness matched at 16fl the JVC has an even greater advantage, I did not measure it (JVC) though. The Sony measured about 18000:1 and I guess the JVC is around 70000:1 at this iris position

First I must say that the iris in the 520 is not very good and it is pumping to much so we left it off during the test and only turned it on in the most dark scenes to see if it matched the JVC (witch we also left off except from the darkest scenes to see the difference). While the JVC iris can have some gamma fluctuations in some scenes that can make it quite annoying, the Sony iris to me is totally unwatchable. I hope Sony adresses this with a firmware update in the future.

Other than this the Sony is a very good machine and it is only very small differences when watching bright material and some scenes the Sony looks a bit better and some the JVC, so who comes out the winner is difficult to say. When it comes medium to dark scenes the Sony can match the JVC quite good in some scenes and in others the JVC looks much better and dark detailed objects in mixed scenes looks much better on the JVC with much more detail and dept and on the Sony it can look quite blurry and flat, this surprised me quite a bit. The JVC looks much more dynamic and shows much more depth in darker scenes, but the Sony alone does not look bad it is only when you see it side by side with the RS600 the 600 makes it look bad.

In the scene in the last Harry Potter movie when Hogwarts is attacked the JVC was so much better in some scenes it was almost silly, the same goes with Zero Dark Thirty when the soldiers attack the Bin Laden house. In some of these scenes the Sony iris got so confused it was pumping like crazy so we turned the iris off on both. This was expected as in scenes like this no projector can match the JVC models.

Even when it comes to sharpness and clarity the JVC is better than the Sony not by a big margin, but the difference is there. How some can see the RS600 as soft I have no idea, but those reporting about softness must have a bad JVC sample as I have seen the VW500 side by side with the VW1000 and the difference in sharpness was very small. I dont have access to a VW1000/1100 anymore, but I am 100% sure the difference would be very small when it comes to clarity and sharpness.

Native motion is slightly better on the Sony, but the difference is not big and the JVC handles motion very well. Fan noise on both in low mode is very good and they are both almost dead silent and I can not tell any difference, the same goes in high mode both are quite loud and there is not a big difference there either.

As this was only a quick test we did not have the time to do this very detailed and the owner took the 520 with him when he left, but there is a small possibility we will do this again some time and maybe check out 4K HDR material also. All in all all 5 of us agreed on the JVC RS600 as the winner with 1080p material and the total difference in PQ the RS600 is the winner by some margin, most due to the superior dark capabilities. Even the VW520 owner agreed on that.

The Sony had RC on 5 and 0 and sharpness at 10, the JVC had MPC set to 3 1 0 0 and eShift off, clear black low both had Darbee at 20%

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Last edited by Andreas21; 02-04-2016 at 02:13 PM.
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post #13834 of 14250 Old 02-04-2016, 02:55 PM
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Andreas, nice review. How many hours did the Sony have on it?


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post #13835 of 14250 Old 02-04-2016, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
Andreas, nice review. How many hours did the Sony have on it?
He said the RS600 had 30 hours on it and the VW520 had 20 hours on it.

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post #13836 of 14250 Old 02-04-2016, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post
I just did a quick side by side test with the RS600 and the Sony VW520 and there was 5 people present at this 4 hour test. I calibrated both to rec.709 and a 2.35 power gamma just before the test started so both were showing their best. They were brightness matched at 16fl in both 16x9 mode and 2.35:1 mode and we only tested with BD material as there was no time to check out 4K. The RS600 had 30 hours on it and the Sony VW520 had about 20.

I also took some measurements and the Sony HW520 was quite good when it comes to on/off contrast and it measured about 15000:1 with the iris wide open and about 20000:1 with it closed down in Auto Full it measured 225000:1. It also was almost perfect out of the box with slight oversaturated colors and linear grayscale and gamma. I only did a lightning lut with Calman and an eeColor due to the limited time we had. I will follow this VW520 in the future and will take measurements every 100 hours to see if there is any contrast drop. I also measured the fl with the iris at full open and low lamp and the Sony measured 24 fl and the JVC 28fl and at this setting the JVC has 43000:1 on/off and the Sony 15000:1. Brightness matched at 16fl the JVC has an even greater advantage, I did not measure it (JVC) though. The Sony measured about 18000:1 and I guess the JVC is around 70000:1 at this iris position

First I must say that the iris in the 520 is not very good and it is pumping to much so we left it off during the test and only turned it on in the most dark scenes to see if it matched the JVC (witch we also left off except from the darkest scenes to see the difference). While the JVC iris can have some gamma fluctuations in some scenes that can make it quite annoying, the Sony iris to me is totally unwatchable. I hope Sony adresses this with a firmware update in the future.

Other than this the Sony is a very good machine and it is only very small differences when watching bright material and some scenes the Sony looks a bit better and some the JVC, so who comes out the winner is difficult to say. When it comes medium to dark scenes the Sony can match the JVC quite good in some scenes and in others the JVC looks much better and dark detailed objects in mixed scenes looks much better on the JVC with much more detail and dept and on the Sony it can look quite blurry and flat, this surprised me quite a bit. The JVC looks much more dynamic and shows much more depth in darker scenes, but the Sony alone does not look bad it is only when you see it side by side with the RS600 the 600 makes it look bad.

In the scene in the last Harry Potter movie when Hogwarts is attacked the JVC was so much better in some scenes it was almost silly, the same goes with Zero Dark Thirty when the soldiers attack the Bin Laden house. In some of these scenes the Sony iris got so confused it was pumping like crazy so we turned the iris off on both. This was expected as in scenes like this no projector can match the JVC models.

Even when it comes to sharpness and clarity the JVC is better than the Sony not by a big margin, but the difference is there. How some can see the RS600 as soft I have no idea, but those reporting about softness must have a bad JVC sample as I have seen the VW500 side by side with the VW1000 and the difference in sharpness was very small. I dont have access to a VW1000/1100 anymore, but I am 100% sure the difference would be very small when it comes to clarity and sharpness.

Native motion is slightly better on the Sony, but the difference is not big and the JVC handles motion very well. Fan noise on both in low mode is very good and they are both almost dead silent and I can not tell any difference, the same goes in high mode both are quite loud and there is not a big difference there either.

As this was only a quick test we did not have the time to do this very detailed and the owner took the 520 with him when he left, but there is a small possibility we will do this again some time and maybe check out 4K HDR material also. All in all all 5 of us agreed on the JVC RS600 as the winner with 1080p material and the total difference in PQ the RS600 is the winner by some margin, most due to the superior dark capabilities. Even the VW520 owner agreed on that.

The Sony had RC on 5 and 0 and sharpness at 10, the JVC had MPC set to 3 1 0 0 and eShift off, clear black low both had Darbee at 20%
Like you, I could not see a difference in sharpness, between the VW600 and the VW1000, when watching content. Had them both in my room for a couple months. Now I could easily tell the difference in black level and contrast.

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post #13837 of 14250 Old 02-04-2016, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
He said the RS600 had 30 hours on it and the VW520 had 20 hours on it.
Thanks - read through too fast.


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post #13838 of 14250 Old 02-04-2016, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
Thanks - read through too fast.
No problem. I miss things too at times.

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post #13839 of 14250 Old 02-04-2016, 07:58 PM
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[QUOTE=Andreas21;41263481]Even when it comes to sharpness and clarity the JVC is better than the Sony not by a big margin, but the difference is there. How some can see the RS600 as soft I have no idea, but those reporting about softness must have a bad JVC sample as I have seen the VW500 side by side with the VW1000 and the difference in sharpness was very small. I dont have access to a VW1000/1100 anymore, but I am 100% sure the difference would be very small when it comes to clarity and sharpness.[QUOTE]

Thanks for the review. I agree with you on the sharpness of the JVC. The RS600 has a nice lens and is the sharpest projector I've owned to date.
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post #13840 of 14250 Old 02-05-2016, 02:48 AM
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Here are some closeups taken with an iPhone 6 by my friend Didrik to show the sharpness difference between the RS600 and VW520, bot were adjusted to perfect focus with TED´s Lightspace Disc´s incredible sharpness testpattern and you could see the pixels of the Sony, but the iphone could not pick it up. This is representable of what we saw on screen and I was quite surprised that the 1080p JVC was sharper and more defined than the 4K Sony. The picture with the Warning sign is with e-Shift on on the JVC and it is to show that even with e-Shift on the JVC looked sharper and more defined.

The iris was on when these pictures was taken and that is why the part of the space ship in Avatar is dimmer, because the iris if the Sony did something. The Sony was actually half a fl brighter than the JVC. This was the first clip we saw and we turned off the iris on both after this because the iris on the Sony was unwatchable.

The image noise people are talking about in the JVC vs the Sony is only there with e-Shift engaged, and with this years e-Shift the noise levels have gone down and is is not a big difference between the Sony and JVC in this regard.
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Last edited by Andreas21; 02-05-2016 at 03:52 AM.
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post #13841 of 14250 Old 02-05-2016, 04:08 AM
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The Sony will be processing any 1080P content whereas the JVC can have e-shift disabled. I'm not sure if Lumagen has a 4K processor yet, but perhaps that combo will take the Sony performance up quite a bit?

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post #13842 of 14250 Old 02-05-2016, 04:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jh901 View Post
The Sony will be processing any 1080P content whereas the JVC can have e-shift disabled. I'm not sure if Lumagen has a 4K processor yet, but perhaps that combo will take the Sony performance up quite a bit?
A Lumagen prosessor will not make the Sony look sharper. And we where not testing external prosessors here, but how they look with 1080p content.

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post #13843 of 14250 Old 02-05-2016, 05:14 AM
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If you want a JVC with better 3D performance, I think you should be looking at one of the new line (RS400/500/600), I've been pretty disappointed by the 3D on my RS4910.
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post #13844 of 14250 Old 02-05-2016, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
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A Lumagen prosessor will not make the Sony look sharper. And we where not testing external prosessors here, but how they look with 1080p content.
Why wouldn't a high-end external video processor improve natural sharpness of 1080P content on a 4K display? I do get your point (on JVC v. Sony), but since many forum members want a processor anyhow (for calibration, etc), then it's important to keep in mind that Sony's processing may not be nearly as good as the Lumagen offering.

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post #13845 of 14250 Old 02-05-2016, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
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Why wouldn't a high-end external video processor improve natural sharpness of 1080P content on a 4K display? I do get your point (on JVC v. Sony), but since many forum members want a processor anyhow (for calibration, etc), then it's important to keep in mind that Sony's processing may not be nearly as good as the Lumagen offering.
The Lumagen processing might be better (no ring) but it will not make the VW520/665 look sharper as it will actually make it look a bit softer due to the no ring scaling and the fact that Sonys RC introduces a little edge enhancement.

Me personally threw my Lumagen out when I discovered all the negatives it did to my VW1000 projector at the time.

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post #13846 of 14250 Old 02-05-2016, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by jh901 View Post
The Sony will be processing any 1080P content whereas the JVC can have e-shift disabled. I'm not sure if Lumagen has a 4K processor yet, but perhaps that combo will take the Sony performance up quite a bit?
The picture with the warning sign was with E-shift on, so both projectors are upconverting the image. Still pretty easy to tell which one is sharper.

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Originally Posted by Andreas21 View Post
The Lumagen processing might be better (no ring) but it will not make the VW520/665 look sharper as it will actually make it look a bit softer due to the no ring scaling and the fact that Sonys RC introduces a little edge enhancement.

Me personally threw my Lumagen out when I discovered all the negatives it did to my VW1000 projector at the time.
Funny thing is, the Lumagen image was the more correct image, but some people prefered the Sony image with RC on. The little bit of ringing caused by RC gave the impression of a sharper image. Not saying right or wrong, but to many people RC did look better.

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Quote:
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Funny thing is, the Lumagen image was the more correct image, but some people prefered the Sony image with RC on. The little bit of ringing caused by RC gave the impression of a sharper image. Not saying right or wrong, but to many people RC did look better.
Yup, as I've mentioned that was the case for me. I tried my Lumagen's no ring scaling for DVD and preferred my Oppo's scaling, and I tried the Lumagen upscaling to 4K and the only thing I could perceive was a distinctly softer looking image compared to letting the JVC doing it.

After that experience it was actually a surprise to me to see my Lumagen's anamorphic scaling looked better than the JVC's - sharper and more precise. This is one reason I would have a hard time getting rid of my Lumagen - once I'm watching the largest possible image, the better looking scaling becomes even more vital.
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post #13849 of 14250 Old 02-05-2016, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
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Me personally threw my Lumagen out when I discovered all the negatives it did to my VW1000 projector at the time.
I doubt that the Lumagen image deviated from the source more than what the Sony does. I realize that we can get into "personal opinion", etc., but there is a right and wrong when it comes to fidelity to a source.

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I doubt that the Lumagen image deviated from the source more than what the Sony does. I realize that we can get into "personal opinion", etc., but there is a right and wrong when it comes to fidelity to a source.
Yep and that is why I said, I would stay out of the right or wrong.

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Not sure if this was previously discussed but I found it an interesting read. Talks about JVC's laser solution and the pros/cons of some competing tech. Looks like theirs is very similar to what Epson is doing. It also achieves a similar max 30000:1 contrast. I found it interesting that if you run the laser at 50% power, it seems to use sensors and the extra power headroom to auto-compensate for aging so that you maintain constant brightness and color over the life of the unit. They also seem to think that cooling of the phosphor wheel is more important to increasing lifetime vs aging of the lasers. It's interesting that their 16-diode design allow for some redundancy and continues to operate even if some of them fail - unlike lamp designs. From what I've read, Epson uses 15 diodes for the direct blue laser and 19 for the one lighting up the phosphor wheel. Epson runs their wear/color compensation with similar sensors every 100 hours. Maybe that explains some of the conflicting reports about brightness increases after firmware updates - they could have just hit one of those compensations by coincidence and attributed the change to firmware.

Given the reduced contrast vs. their lamp units and high noise (48db), I can see why they have not switched over their home theater line yet. They will probably need a new chassis redesign.

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post #13852 of 14250 Old 02-07-2016, 01:50 PM
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(I didn't have any luck getting a response in the JVC thread so I'll try this here):

QUESTION: Effects of using HORIZONTAL LENS SHIFT.

Does using horizontal lens shift introduce any more problems than using vertical lens shift?

I am re-setting up 10 different lens memory positions on my JVC RS600. Since I'm having a problem getting the projector perfectly centered enough to zoom a perfect fit (with the variable masking) to all image sizes, I'm thinking of programming in a bit of horizontal lens shift with a few of the lens memories. It would be minor, shifting the image literally a couple of inches to the right. I'm already, like most people, using vertical lens shift to have the images vertically centered on my screen. I'm just wondering if there is anything "worse" about using horizontal lens shift, and whether I may be introducing any issues or distortion in using it even a little bit.

Thanks.
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post #13853 of 14250 Old 02-07-2016, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
(I didn't have any luck getting a response in the JVC thread so I'll try this here):

QUESTION: Effects of using HORIZONTAL LENS SHIFT.

Does using horizontal lens shift introduce any more problems than using vertical lens shift?

I am re-setting up 10 different lens memory positions on my JVC RS600. Since I'm having a problem getting the projector perfectly centered enough to zoom a perfect fit (with the variable masking) to all image sizes, I'm thinking of programming in a bit of horizontal lens shift with a few of the lens memories. It would be minor, shifting the image literally a couple of inches to the right. I'm already, like most people, using vertical lens shift to have the images vertically centered on my screen. I'm just wondering if there is anything "worse" about using horizontal lens shift, and whether I may be introducing any issues or distortion in using it even a little bit.

Thanks.
You should be fine. It's really easy to test too. Highly unlikely you will see a difference from your viewing position.

I use about 10 inches of horizontal lens shift (on 9 foot wide screen) and it made no difference in image quality.


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post #13854 of 14250 Old 02-07-2016, 02:12 PM
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You should be fine. It's really easy to test too. Highly unlikely you will see a difference from your viewing position.

I use about 10 inches of horizontal lens shift (on 9 foot wide screen) and it made no difference in image quality.
Thanks. I figure any effects would be minimal, but I'd also generally like to know if there is any reason why Horizontal Lens Shift would be more problematic than Vertical even in theoretical terms.

Someone asked about using Horizontal lens shift on the 2:35:1 forum and a person associated with Panamorph said that at least if someone is using a Panamorph A-lens "Vertical is fine, horizontal lens shift will seriously affect your image geometry." So that spooked me.

I could ensure that I'm not using horizontal lens shift when I'm using my A-lens, but then I'd probably have to use some for some other image sizes.

I'm also curious about incorporating re-focus into my lens memories. I've never done so before because so far I haven't noticed much change in focus when I re-zoom my image. The other reason is that, since there is some give over time with the lens memory positions, I figured the same could occur with the re-focusing, so I'm not sure how precise the re-focus is over time, and maybe you end up with worst focus after time because of it. (But if I knew it was reliable from others using it, I might incorporate focus).
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post #13855 of 14250 Old 02-07-2016, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
(I didn't have any luck getting a response in the JVC thread so I'll try this here):

QUESTION: Effects of using HORIZONTAL LENS SHIFT.

Does using horizontal lens shift introduce any more problems than using vertical lens shift?

I am re-setting up 10 different lens memory positions on my JVC RS600. Since I'm having a problem getting the projector perfectly centered enough to zoom a perfect fit (with the variable masking) to all image sizes, I'm thinking of programming in a bit of horizontal lens shift with a few of the lens memories. It would be minor, shifting the image literally a couple of inches to the right. I'm already, like most people, using vertical lens shift to have the images vertically centered on my screen. I'm just wondering if there is anything "worse" about using horizontal lens shift, and whether I may be introducing any issues or distortion in using it even a little bit.

Thanks.

Rich if your proj is "dead centre" to the "dead centre" of the side masking on its tracks, I don't see why you would ever need to use any horizontal lens shift.


I have always started by first finding the dead centre of the side masking and mark that position. For me this is dead centre of the room. I then make sure the horizontal lens shift is set to its default, dead centre. I then measure the centre of the room and place the projector dead centre. I then put up a test disc for film ratios and touch up the projector (by hand, moving it left and right, no lens shift) to make sure its exactly dead centre of the masked image, I don't use any horizontal lens shift, don't need to with this method. I only need vertical lens shift. My side masking stops perfectly then for each saved format, 4.3, 16.9, 1.85 and scope. If you get it perfect for one ratio, say 16.9, it will be perfect for all. However the A lens needs to be done last for left and right too, making sure the image is passing through the centre of the optics, then aligning it with the L&R side masking.


If everything is perfectly centred I see no reason why you should need to introduce any horizontal lens shift, to me that shows something is out of alignment.

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post #13856 of 14250 Old 02-07-2016, 04:55 PM
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Thank Murray,

I've been using my variable image size format since 2009 and have taken all the steps you mention (measuring etc), several times per projector. Yet although I've gotten close I've never achieved a perfect centering where every single zoom setting (20 in all) ends up dead center with the masking. For whatever reason, this just eludes me.

It's tougher for the A-lens issue too, since it is bolted to my projector lift, it's difficult to move, and it's very hard to get the projector centered for zooming and for perfectly centering in the A-lens. Basically, I've made this pretty hard on myself. So that's why horizontal lens shift may have to come to the rescue.
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post #13857 of 14250 Old 02-07-2016, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
Thank Murray,

I've been using my variable image size format since 2009 and have taken all the steps you mention (measuring etc), several times per projector. Yet although I've gotten close I've never achieved a perfect centering where every single zoom setting (20 in all) ends up dead center with the masking. For whatever reason, this just eludes me.

It's tougher for the A-lens issue too, since it is bolted to my projector lift, it's difficult to move, and it's very hard to get the projector centered for zooming and for perfectly centering in the A-lens. Basically, I've made this pretty hard on myself. So that's why horizontal lens shift may have to come to the rescue.

Rich I know and completely understand where you are coming from, Ive been there done that too!
In my other hose I used to have my proj and A lens mounted from the lounge room ceiling, it was a nightmare lining up the proj, A lens, masking etc etc as everytime I moved one part, it would move the other out that I just spent forever getting right! It was very time consuming and frustrating as Im completely pedantic about the masking of ratio sizes, thats from the 35+ years spent as a 1st run city projectionist. My training at the age of 16 in the projection room was by projectionists who where so proud of the presentation, it was drummed into me. Good training as I carried that over to the present age of 62


It was only after finally building a dedicated cinema in my new house with a separate projection booth, I got rid of the alignment nightmares! I used to spend more time up a ladder perfecting the alignment than watching movies, it used to drive me nuts. Today I have my projector shelf mounted style, sitting on a box to raise it to the height of the glass port, and the Isco III mounted on a cineslide also on a separate box infront of the projector. This way its simple to line up the box that the projector sits on without using Horizontal lens shift. Its then also real easy to line up the A lens fixed to its own independent box, I can easily move it without moving the projector out if its alignment.


Today I can replace the projector with a different brand, re align it and the Isco III within 15/20 mins perfectly. Its just so simple.


I now advise everyone whos thinking of using multiple formats with A lenses to never use a ceiling mount. Even if its in the lounge and not set up in an independent cupboard/booth like mine, to shelf mount the projector, and the A lens separate and not attached to the projector in anyway. Then life is simple! Set and align everything once, put the ladder away and start watching movies!


Today I say its virtually impossible aligning multiple formats with A lenses, automated masking and projector ceiling mounts, things just move!
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Murray Thompson
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post #13858 of 14250 Old 02-07-2016, 05:53 PM
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Murray,

That sounds so nice to have finally nailed down the whole centering issue.

My other problem is that I haven't much throw distance, so I needed every bit of space between the projector and screen as possible. Inches made a difference in terms of how big my zoomed image could become. So my projector, with angled cabling connections, is pushed right back so there is literally 1/4 clearance between it and a bay window ledge behind it, so it can rise up and down on it's lift. This is great for how it works out watching movies, but in terms of set up it means re-cabling is tough, even having to change a bulb I have to turn the projector and then go through re-aligning again. The less I have to mess with my system the better.
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post #13859 of 14250 Old 02-07-2016, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
Thanks. I figure any effects would be minimal, but I'd also generally like to know if there is any reason why Horizontal Lens Shift would be more problematic than Vertical even in theoretical terms.

Someone asked about using Horizontal lens shift on the 2:35:1 forum and a person associated with Panamorph said that at least if someone is using a Panamorph A-lens "Vertical is fine, horizontal lens shift will seriously affect your image geometry." So that spooked me.

I could ensure that I'm not using horizontal lens shift when I'm using my A-lens, but then I'd probably have to use some for some other image sizes.

I'm also curious about incorporating re-focus into my lens memories. I've never done so before because so far I haven't noticed much change in focus when I re-zoom my image. The other reason is that, since there is some give over time with the lens memory positions, I figured the same could occur with the re-focusing, so I'm not sure how precise the re-focus is over time, and maybe you end up with worst focus after time because of it. (But if I knew it was reliable from others using it, I might incorporate focus).
I have no choice but to use lens shift as my projector has to be ceiling mounted from inside of the closet of my room, so it's impossible to get it exactly center as the wall in my closet is then up against the side of the projector. Originally, I only had it several inches from the wall but the heat exhaust was getting that side of the projector very warm as the closet would trap the heat...so I had to remount it further from the wall. I also use about 4-5" of vertical shift as I lowered my screen about that much from where I originally had it as I was having to look upward too much.

Regarding focus, I do notice over a period of time my projector comes a little out of focus going back and forth between lens memories.

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Quote:
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Rich I know and completely understand where you are coming from, Ive been there done that too!
In my other hose I used to have my proj and A lens mounted from the lounge room ceiling, it was a nightmare lining up the proj, A lens, masking etc etc as everytime I moved one part, it would move the other out that I just spent forever getting right! It was very time consuming and frustrating as Im completely pedantic about the masking of ratio sizes, thats from the 35+ years spent as a 1st run city projectionist. My training at the age of 16 in the projection room was by projectionists who where so proud of the presentation, it was drummed into me. Good training as I carried that over to the present age of 62


It was only after finally building a dedicated cinema in my new house with a separate projection booth, I got rid of the alignment nightmares! I used to spend more time up a ladder perfecting the alignment than watching movies, it used to drive me nuts. Today I have my projector shelf mounted style, sitting on a box to raise it to the height of the glass port, and the Isco III mounted on a cineslide also on a separate box infront of the projector. This way its simple to line up the box that the projector sits on without using Horizontal lens shift. Its then also real easy to line up the A lens fixed to its own independent box, I can easily move it without moving the projector out if its alignment.


Today I can replace the projector with a different brand, re align it and the Isco III within 15/20 mins perfectly. Its just so simple.


I now advise everyone whos thinking of using multiple formats with A lenses to never use a ceiling mount. Even if its in the lounge and not set up in an independent cupboard/booth like mine, to shelf mount the projector, and the A lens separate and not attached to the projector in anyway. Then life is simple! Set and align everything once, put the ladder away and start watching movies!


Today I say its virtually impossible aligning multiple formats with A lenses, automated masking and projector ceiling mounts, things just move!
I don't understand this. I use a ceiling mount and an A-lens. Used to use a shelf mount for both projector and A-lens. A ceiling mount is so much easier. With the lens out of the light path, you adjust the projector to fit the screen for height, centered horizontally and to provide an image without keystone. Once you do that, you are done adjusting the projector and now just time to adjust the A-lens. Then you slide the lens in place and adjust the A-lens. Any adjustment to the A-lens does not affect the image setup of the projector without the A-lens in place. The lens and projector setup is independent of each other. Now, you can't go back and adjust the projector after adjusting the A-lens, but that messes up any A-lens setup, even if the A-lens and projector are completely separate.

Are you using a projector mount with gear adjustment or one that only uses friction screws to hold everything in place. With an A-lens, I would only use a gear adjustable mount. It makes setup so much easier and more precise.

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