Projector Mini-Shootout Thread - Page 463 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #13861 of 14722 Old 02-07-2016, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
With an A-lens, I would only use a gear adjustable mount. It makes setup so much easier and more precise.
With my RS4910 I had used a Chief RPM mount but still found that due to excessive ceiling joist vibration (washer/dryer located on same upper floor) it would not hold a constant alignment. Any recommendation for a firmer geared mount?

In either case, I need to work on stiffening the ceiling joists with a strongback and/or use a vibration reducing mount like the Nigel B Design's.
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post #13862 of 14722 Old 02-07-2016, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
I don't understand this. I use a ceiling mount and an A-lens. Used to use a shelf mount for both projector and A-lens. A ceiling mount is so much easier. With the lens out of the light path, you adjust the projector to fit the screen for height, centered horizontally and to provide an image without keystone. Once you do that, you are done adjusting the projector and now just time to adjust the A-lens. Then you slide the lens in place and adjust the A-lens. Any adjustment to the A-lens does not affect the image setup of the projector without the A-lens in place. The lens and projector setup is independent of each other. Now, you can't go back and adjust the projector after adjusting the A-lens, but that messes up any A-lens setup, even if the A-lens and projector are completely separate.

Are you using a projector mount with gear adjustment or one that only uses friction screws to hold everything in place. With an A-lens, I would only use a gear adjustable mount. It makes setup so much easier and more precise.
Not all A lens mounts are independent of the proj ceiling mount. Of course yours being independent will be easier.
But things move on the ceiling especially if you have a room upstairs above the mount, ceiling timbers also move with heat and cold from the roof. If one is not overly fussy like I am about my image being masked perfectly up to the millimetre its all ok.


There is nothing in my setup that can move due to room, ceiling temperatures, its all built in like kitchen cabinets.


I have seen and heard of many complaining about ceiling mounts moving over the years, but there are ceiling mounts and ceiling mounts. The $45.00 ones are pretty useless. Mind you I had an expensive chief and a custom build A lens mount attached to it, the whole thing cost a fortune and looked beautiful, it still moved and drove me nuts!


To the other part of your question, I don't use a ceiling mount, you must have mis read my post.

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post #13863 of 14722 Old 02-07-2016, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjcook View Post
With my RS4910 I had used a Chief RPM mount but still found that due to excessive ceiling joist vibration (washer/dryer located on same upper floor) it would not hold a constant alignment. Any recommendation for a firmer geared mount?

In either case, I need to work on stiffening the ceiling joists with a strongback and/or use a vibration reducing mount like the Nigel B Design's.

Bingo this always happens, that's why I stopped using ceiling mounts. A shelf cant move and its fixed at many points, not just a pivot as most mounts are. I've been selling ceiling mounts for years, expensive ones, cheap ones, if the ceiling its mounted on has an upstairs, things constantly move. I always had customers asking why does their image keep going slightly out of alignment, even in the days before we had zoom memory. When I told them to shelf mount, they stopped complaining....


Maybe the houses in the USA don't move

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post #13864 of 14722 Old 02-08-2016, 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
Someone asked about using Horizontal lens shift on the 2:35:1 forum and a person associated with Panamorph said that at least if someone is using a Panamorph A-lens "Vertical is fine, horizontal lens shift will seriously affect your image geometry." So that spooked me.
This is specifically in relation to the anamorphic lens. Consider pincushion, if everything is setup normal to the screen, you get an even amount of pincushion on each side. No imagine if you shoot light through diagonally (using horizontal shift) now you'll have an uneven amount of pincushion.
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post #13865 of 14722 Old 02-08-2016, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
...


Maybe the houses in the USA don't move
No they have there mounts the right way up. Yours was upside down.

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post #13866 of 14722 Old 02-08-2016, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
Not all A lens mounts are independent of the proj ceiling mount. Of course yours being independent will be easier.
But things move on the ceiling especially if you have a room upstairs above the mount, ceiling timbers also move with heat and cold from the roof. If one is not overly fussy like I am about my image being masked perfectly up to the millimetre its all ok.


There is nothing in my setup that can move due to room, ceiling temperatures, its all built in like kitchen cabinets.


I have seen and heard of many complaining about ceiling mounts moving over the years, but there are ceiling mounts and ceiling mounts. The $45.00 ones are pretty useless. Mind you I had an expensive chief and a custom build A lens mount attached to it, the whole thing cost a fortune and looked beautiful, it still moved and drove me nuts!


To the other part of your question, I don't use a ceiling mount, you must have mis read my post.
I have ceiling plate, 12" drop tube and RPMA mount, supporting projector, powered slide and lens. I do not have problems with movement and I have six subs. My mount is attached to wood blocking between trusses.

Did not misread your question. Knew you had shelf mount. I have used shelf mount with an A-lens for several years. Currently use ceiling mount with A-lens and find that ceiling mount is so much easier to setup. My point was, I think a ceiling mount is much easier to set up, than shelf mount, but it did not work as well for you, because you were getting movement. Sounds more like a structural problem, than a mount problem and in that case, mounting with a shelf would be a better option.
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post #13867 of 14722 Old 02-08-2016, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjcook View Post
With my RS4910 I had used a Chief RPM mount but still found that due to excessive ceiling joist vibration (washer/dryer located on same upper floor) it would not hold a constant alignment. Any recommendation for a firmer geared mount?

In either case, I need to work on stiffening the ceiling joists with a strongback and/or use a vibration reducing mount like the Nigel B Design's.
Maybe consider isolation mounts under the washer and dryer. This is done all the time with roof mounted HVAC equipment in commercial construction. https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...ation%20mounts

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post #13868 of 14722 Old 02-08-2016, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
Maybe consider isolation mounts under the washer and dryer. This is done all the time with roof mounted HVAC equipment in commercial construction. https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...ation%20mounts
Thanks I'll look into this.
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post #13869 of 14722 Old 02-08-2016, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
I now advise everyone whos thinking of using multiple formats with A lenses to never use a ceiling mount.

Today I say its virtually impossible aligning multiple formats with A lenses, automated masking and projector ceiling mounts, things just move!
I had my Planar PD8150 mounted on a ceiling with a Panamorph lens (480), plate and sled and I never had an issue. I did't have masking though, but once I set it, it was good to go. Perhaps I'm just not as picky about alignment.

There was one time I had an issue and that's when the housekeeper decided he wanted to clean it.

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Here are some closeups taken with an iPhone 6 by my friend Didrik to show the sharpness difference between the RS600 and VW520, bot were adjusted to perfect focus with TED´s Lightspace Disc´s incredible sharpness testpattern and you could see the pixels of the Sony, but the iphone could not pick it up.
I use AvScience disc and use Singe Pixel Patter to set the focus by getting up close to the screen and observe by changing focus. You mentioned about TED's focus pattern. Do you think its a better pattern than Singe Pixel from AvScience disc? If yes then please share why do you think its better. Thx
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post #13871 of 14722 Old 02-08-2016, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Has anyone else pre-ordered the Samsung UHD BD Player?

There is a mile long discussion on it here:

Samsung UBD-K8500 4K HDR Ultra HD Blu-Ray Player-

I decided to order it this morning from Best Buy, i'm interested in checking out some of the media features before the UHD BD's are released in a few weeks.

The Martian will be interesting to compare in BD vs. UHD.
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post #13872 of 14722 Old 02-08-2016, 11:52 AM
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Has anyone else pre-ordered the Samsung UHD BD Player?
I did, I figured I might as well, it ended up being $50 out of pocket. I used a chunk of my Discover Cashback Bonus to get Crutchfield gift codes for 20% off (so it ended up being $280 I spent in certificates, plus $49.99 or whatever in "cash").
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post #13873 of 14722 Old 02-08-2016, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
Has anyone else pre-ordered the Samsung UHD BD Player?

There is a mile long discussion on it here:

Samsung UBD-K8500 4K HDR Ultra HD Blu-Ray Player-

I decided to order it this morning from Best Buy, i'm interested in checking out some of the media features before the UHD BD's are released in a few weeks.

The Martian will be interesting to compare in BD vs. UHD.
I ordered one and hope to pick up some BD UHD titles soon. I was hoping that the Samsung would also give me a gateway to viewing other 4K content, e.g. youtube clips, but monitoring the user thread it seems results are still unsure as to how well the youtube app works for 4K
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post #13874 of 14722 Old 02-08-2016, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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I didn't expect this to happen. I impulsively ordered it 5 minutes before their cut-off and just got a tracking # that it will be here Wednesday.

After years of streaming 2D and 3D BD content from a 40TB raid, I'm not sure what to do with those 5" shiny round disks. hopefully there will be a way to rip these. Waiting for a disk to load seems archaic.
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post #13875 of 14722 Old 02-08-2016, 12:41 PM
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That's great Zombie! I'm looking forward to reading what you have to say about the Samsung UHD experience.
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post #13876 of 14722 Old 02-08-2016, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
Has anyone else pre-ordered the Samsung UHD BD Player?
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
I did, I figured I might as well, it ended up being $50 out of pocket. I used a chunk of my Discover Cashback Bonus to get Crutchfield gift codes for 20% off (so it ended up being $280 I spent in certificates, plus $49.99 or whatever in "cash").
I bit the bullet and used the same deal as stanger89. Figured I may as well use up some of that $2,500 in Discover Cashback Bonus I've been hoarding for several years - tough to beat 20% off. Looking forward to seeing how this bad boy looks on the RS600.

Now to decide if I want to bypass my Denon X4000 for video and use the 2nd audio only HDMI or upgrade my receiver to a compliant one. Sadly I can't really do Atmos in my room or it would be a no-brainer upgrade.

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post #13877 of 14722 Old 02-08-2016, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
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it looks like the 3D Bluray rental company will also stock UHD BD as well.

http://www.store-3d-blurayrental.com...ory-s/1868.htm

I will be torn between choosing to watch some of these movies in UHD vs. 1080P 3D. For example - when Pacific Rim is released on UHD BD - is the extra resolution + WCG going to be obvious vs. missing out on the 3D thrill ride in a movie like this?

the comments about how '3D like' a 2D image can be just doesn't click when one has a setup optimized for 3D.
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post #13878 of 14722 Old 02-08-2016, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

the comments about how '3D like' a 2D image can be just doesn't click when one has a setup optimized for 3D.
I know what you are saying, but I also get the 3D-like comments too. There are some shots in 2D that to my eye actually can look more convincing, a smoother sense of depth and realism, than their 3D counterpart. Often this is because many 3D shots have a cut-out effect. But when it's done really well and naturally, like lots of Prometheus, or in a way that gets you 3D effects you'll never get in 2D, then yeah, 2D won't be 3D.

I feel glad that I'd made a habit over the years of buying the 3D versions of movies when they were available. I wasn't even watching much 3D, the JVCs at the time not being great, but held out hope for a future purchase and now with the new RS600 I get to go back into my collection and really delve into 3D.
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post #13879 of 14722 Old 02-08-2016, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
it looks like the 3D Bluray rental company will also stock UHD BD as well.

http://www.store-3d-blurayrental.com...ory-s/1868.htm

I will be torn between choosing to watch some of these movies in UHD vs. 1080P 3D. For example - when Pacific Rim is released on UHD BD - is the extra resolution + WCG going to be obvious vs. missing out on the 3D thrill ride in a movie like this?

the comments about how '3D like' a 2D image can be just doesn't click when one has a setup optimized for 3D.
Yeah, I have never understood the "how 3d like the 2d image" comments. Good 3d has an undeniable distinction vs it's 2d counterpart.

I can see being torn on 3d or UHD with some titles, but something like Pacific Rim would be an easy choice for me in favor of the 3d. No matter how good UHD looks, it is still 2d. Once I saw Pacific Rim in 3d, the 2d version was forever dead to me. I don't feel you have seen Pacific Rim until you see it in 3d.

On the other hand, some of these barely there conservative type 3d transfers like Winter Soldier, Prometheus, etc... it would be an easy choice for me to watch in UHD since 3d adds very little to the experience. It really is going to depend on the title and how aggressive and impressive the 3d is for me.
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post #13880 of 14722 Old 02-08-2016, 07:06 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm excited that we finally have a next generation disc format. I remember folks saying there was no chance for this to happen, streaming was taking over the world, etc. even if it ends up niche and we get some nice transfers from recent / future movies, I would be happy with that. They are smart on the initial pricing - they cannot be selling these for a huge premium over regular BD's.

the player will be here Wednesday, I think some are hoping that the disks show up at BB before the expected March 1st date.

I think the Martian, Xmen: Days of Future Past, and Exodus for starters. no chance on Fantastic 4, no matter how good it looks.
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post #13881 of 14722 Old 02-08-2016, 07:14 PM
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It is exciting! I will be very late to the party, but looking forward to reading reports and going UHD at some point.

I'm with you on Fantastic 4. Terrible movie! Only good thing about that film was the ~15 minute stretch of massive LFE at the end.
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post #13882 of 14722 Old 02-08-2016, 07:34 PM
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there are some terrible ones in there ! am not sure on exodus either

in the current available I'm going for,

martian
sicario
xmen
life of pi

"Technology is a drug. We can't get enough of it."


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post #13883 of 14722 Old 02-08-2016, 09:20 PM
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On the other hand, some of these barely there conservative type 3d transfers like Winter Soldier, Prometheus, etc... it would be an easy choice for me to watch in UHD since 3d adds very little to the experience. It really is going to depend on the title and how aggressive and impressive the 3d is for me.
Funny, I found 3D added to Prometheus more than any other film so far (because it is such high quality 3D in that movie).
The Walk was another one though - not as much for the quality of the 3D, but for how suited it was to exploit 3D for dramatic involvement.

I just watched The Martian a bit in 3D. It was looking pretty good, though I'm still getting a not-quite-together sense of the image.
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post #13884 of 14722 Old 02-09-2016, 01:40 AM
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I'm excited that we finally have a next generation disc format. I remember folks saying there was no chance for this to happen, streaming was taking over the world, etc. even if it ends up niche and we get some nice transfers from recent / future movies, I would be happy with that. They are smart on the initial pricing - they cannot be selling these for a huge premium over regular BD's.

the player will be here Wednesday, I think some are hoping that the disks show up at BB before the expected March 1st date.

I think the Martian, Xmen: Days of Future Past, and Exodus for starters. no chance on Fantastic 4, no matter how good it looks.

What is really 4k encoded to Blu-ray....
Here are the titles that Warner Home Video has announced:
‘The Lego Movie’ – Animated on a 2k DI
‘Mad Max: Fury Road’ – Shot in 2k, with a 2k DI
‘Man of Steel’ – Shot on 35mm, with a 2k DI
‘Pacific Rim’ – Shot in 5k, but only a 2k DI
‘Pan’ – Shot in 3k, with a 2k DI
‘San Andreas’ – Shot in 3k, DI is not listed but probably 2k
Yes, every single film that Warner plans to release on the 4k Ultra HD format is a 2k movie.
The 20th Century Fox release titles are only marginally better:
‘Exodus: Gods and Kings’ – Shot in 5k, with a 2k DI
‘Fantastic Four’ – Shot in 2k, with a 2k DI
‘Kingsman: The Secret Service’ – Shot mostly in 2k, with a 2k DI
‘Life of Pi’ – Shot in 2k, with a 2k DI
‘The Martian’ – Shot in 5k, with a 2k DI
‘The Maze Runner’ – Shot mostly in 2k mixed with some 5k, with a 4k DI
‘Wild’ – Shot in 2k, with a 2k DI
‘X-Men: Days of Future Past’ – Shot in 2k, with a 2k DI
That’s 13 launch titles from two major studios, and only a single movie was actually produced at 4k resolution (‘The Maze Runner’) – and even that one was mostly photographed in 2k. And these aren’t just old movies made before 4k was possible. Even major big-budget tentpole blockbusters from the past year were made in 2k. Many more will continue to be made in 2k this year and going forward too.
Only Sony appears to have a genuine commitment to making movies in 4k. Here are that studio’s Ultra HD Blu-ray launch titles:
‘The Amazing Spider-Man 2’ – Shot on 35mm, with a 4k DI
‘Chappie’ – Shot in 5k, with a 4k DI
‘Hancock’ – Shot on 35mm, with a 4k DI
‘Pineapple Express’ – Shot on 35mm, with a 2k DI
‘Salt’ – Shot on 35mm, with a 4k DI
‘The Smurfs 2’ – Shot in 4k, with a 4k DI
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post #13885 of 14722 Old 02-09-2016, 02:15 AM
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
I ordered one and hope to pick up some BD UHD titles soon. I was hoping that the Samsung would also give me a gateway to viewing other 4K content, e.g. youtube clips, but monitoring the user thread it seems results are still unsure as to how well the youtube app works for 4K
Rich, not sure what you mean with results being unsure as to how well the youtube app works for 4K? The best clips look terrific. Why don't you just pick up a Roku 4? Cheap way to have a lot of high quality 4K surfing fun with your projector. And lots of streaming looks very high quality in normal 2D as well, assuming your internet provider speed is adequate .... like 40-60mbs.
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post #13886 of 14722 Old 02-09-2016, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I'm excited that we finally have a next generation disc format. I remember folks saying there was no chance for this to happen, streaming was taking over the world, etc. even if it ends up niche and we get some nice transfers from recent / future movies, I would be happy with that. They are smart on the initial pricing - they cannot be selling these for a huge premium over regular BD's.

the player will be here Wednesday, I think some are hoping that the disks show up at BB before the expected March 1st date.

I think the Martian, Xmen: Days of Future Past, and Exodus for starters. no chance on Fantastic 4, no matter how good it looks.
For Sci Fi stuff, I was watching "The Expanse" on Vudu, it's ok but the writing is choppy and it's hard to follow at times. It's still not bad overall. It seems like writers lately either over-develop the back-story of each character or undervelop it.

One reason people get stuck on streaming is that for TV series watching you usually cannot buy the Blurays until after the series ends. I wish they would release TV series on Bluray or 4K discs as 1/4 season releases, some have before but usually not often.

The problem I always had watching TV shows as recorded or whatever on Comcast at least was that the replay from the Xfinity was often worse than the original broadcast (though I temporarily got rid of cable to shop a new provider).

As long as some of these other SCI Fi's don't come up with an ending as goofy as Fallen Skies, so killing a giant talking alien spider is the solution to prevent a world takeover by aliens (no thank you, I don't think so)...

Ex-machina was a good movie for recent Sci Fi, even though it's a little drab and predictable at times.

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Last edited by coderguy; 02-09-2016 at 03:42 AM.
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post #13887 of 14722 Old 02-09-2016, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
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Yeah, I have never understood the "how 3d like the 2d image" comments. Good 3d has an undeniable distinction vs it's 2d counterpart.

I can see being torn on 3d or UHD with some titles, but something like Pacific Rim would be an easy choice for me in favor of the 3d. No matter how good UHD looks, it is still 2d. Once I saw Pacific Rim in 3d, the 2d version was forever dead to me. I don't feel you have seen Pacific Rim until you see it in 3d.

On the other hand, some of these barely there conservative type 3d transfers like Winter Soldier, Prometheus, etc... it would be an easy choice for me to watch in UHD since 3d adds very little to the experience. It really is going to depend on the title and how aggressive and impressive the 3d is for me.
I love it. Hard core. And I do agree Pacific Rim in 3D is amazing. Pacific Rim 8' away from an 8' 5" wide 16x9 2.8 HP screen presentation, with the lamp on High and the iris down around -10 to -12 and DI on auto 1 = 3D you don't see anywhere because it's at even higher than the new reference levels of Dolby and IMAX FL coming off their screens..... with such high dynamic range from my RS500 and all the dark and mid level APL scenes and deep shadow detail mixed with brilliant highlights and bright colors that just pop in this movie.
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post #13888 of 14722 Old 02-09-2016, 01:26 PM
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Rich, not sure what you mean with results being unsure as to how well the youtube app works for 4K? The best clips look terrific. Why don't you just pick up a Roku 4? Cheap way to have a lot of high quality 4K surfing fun with your projector. And lots of streaming looks very high quality in normal 2D as well, assuming your internet provider speed is adequate .... like 40-60mbs.
I haven't done so because I watch very little TV (virtually none) and prefer Blu-Ray quality over streaming. Plus, I don't have an AV receiver or VP that can pass or switch 4K sources, meaning for now I can only have one 4K source sent to the remaining HDMI input of the JVC. So I can't do both the Roku for 4K and the Samsung.

Hence...I was really hoping the Samsung could also be a decent streaming/youtube access option for 4K as well.

The problems I've read so far in the Samsung owners thread is that people seem to be having a tough time actually streaming 4K, if the Samsung is compatible with lots of the youtube 4K encoding, or determining IF the stream is 4K
at all.
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post #13889 of 14722 Old 02-09-2016, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
I haven't done so because I watch very little TV (virtually none) and prefer Blu-Ray quality over streaming. Plus, I don't have an AV receiver or VP that can pass or switch 4K sources, meaning for now I can only have one 4K source sent to the remaining HDMI input of the JVC. So I can't do both the Roku for 4K and the Samsung.

Hence...I was really hoping the Samsung could also be a decent streaming/youtube access option for 4K as well.

The problems I've read so far in the Samsung owners thread is that people seem to be having a tough time actually streaming 4K, if the Samsung is compatible with lots of the youtube 4K encoding, or determining IF the stream is 4K
at all.
Do they happen to mention what kind of download speeds they have or what cables they are using? Seems at least half the time people have issues, the new piece of equipment gets the blame when it is the innocent party.

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post #13890 of 14722 Old 02-09-2016, 04:53 PM - Thread Starter
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So who is lining up to pre-order one of those expensive upcoming BenQ or Optoma projectors?

They are really going to have to pull off a miracle here and improve the stagnant native contrast that has haunted DLP's. + the premiere of this new DLP panel is being hosted by 2 companies that have less than stellar track records in recent years.

4K resolution isn't going to be enough if they can't impress in low APL scenes. one of the main reasons I sold the VW1100. start with good native and then build everything else around it.
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