Projector Mini-Shootout Thread - Page 478 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 05-10-2016, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
OLED seems to suffer, to some extent, image retention. This doesn't bode well for PC monitor use where things like the windows task bar sits constantly. I'd imagine that Dell monitor has some sort of noise creation processing built in like Plasmas did to help prevent burn in from occuring. I don't know how much I'd like a PC monitor that has burn in issues.
"Dell says it has remedied the shortcomings of OLED panels by introducing a pixel-shifting algorithm that prevents burn-in, and an image sensor that can tell whether or not you're viewing the monitor and turns it off when it's not in use."
Credit: http://www.techradar.com/us/reviews/...1311504/review
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Old 05-10-2016, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
This is an important post from ccool96. For those that know his posts on the forum, he has access to some remarkably expensive high end HT equipment and does a great job with his deep dives with this gear.

"Not long ago, we heard how HDR is inconsistent from disk to disk and how 'poorly' the JVC handled this kind of content. Having to change settings disk to disk. At the same time, a claim was made that HDR looked excellent on the 5000ES and that it had some magic sauce to dynamically 'fix' the encoding discrepancies from disk to disk. There was a number of contradicting reports from several that tested HDR on the 5000ES and it's looking more and more that the issue is HDR10 and the variances in encoding between each studio.

Reviewing the HDTV article where the TV's were supposed to be the holy grail device that could handle these and there are still clearly issues."

Manni's ears must be ringing across the pond because he was quite clear from day 1 that HDR10 was not the solution and we needed a dynamic process with metadata like the Dolby Vision.

Based on my recent experiments revisiting HDR vs SDR on the UHD discs, I'm leaning heavily towards this as a permanent solution for UHD BD's. This weekend I used the HDFury to send WCG but not HDR to the JVC and as CCool96 has stated - black levels are back to where JVC's excel and the overall PQ looks great with the WCG / 2020 profile.

If you are interested in the HDFury, I would pick one up soon. Some folks who created this HDMI spaghetti mess are not pleased with this device. I may get a 2nd as a backup, great device to have on hand.
IMO, HDR is better suited for OLED or any other display tech with self-emissive pixels. OLED is good, but I believe QLED is the future.

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Old 05-11-2016, 06:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Zombie,

Are you seeing any befits in resolution/clarity with the UHD discs vs regular Blu-Rays? We projector folk with our big screens are supposed to be the ones to benefit from 4K resolution...
This is just preliminary observations but I did some basic A/B between the BD and UHD of Deadpool last night. The natural appearing sharpness of this particular UHD is excellent and is one of the best UHD's I've seen yet in this area. I think most with a decent size screen who do the same A/B will be able to see the differences. Color on the BD looks flat in comparison to the UHD where it's popping but not overcooked in any regard.

definitely a must own UHD BD for anyone with the 2016 JVC's + a UHD player.
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Old 05-11-2016, 06:56 AM
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This is just preliminary observations but I did some basic A/B between the BD and UHD of Deadpool last night. The natural appearing sharpness of this particular UHD is excellent and is one of the best UHD's I've seen yet in this area. I think most with a decent size screen who do the same A/B will be able to see the differences. Color on the BD looks flat in comparison to the UHD where it's popping but not overcooked in any regard.

definitely a must own UHD BD for anyone with the 2016 JVC's + a UHD player.
Zombie,


Was that with SDR 2020?


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Old 05-11-2016, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
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David - Hi, that was HDR 2020. I ran out of time to swap over to SDR 2020 but will update the thread once I have time with it over the next few days.

My dune HD 4K Solo arrived today, I am going to be busy in the HT for a few days.


Watching Deadpool last night and seeing how remarkable it looked on the RS600 cements my decision to pass along my VW1100, I don't miss it for a minute.

it's a shame, this was supposed to be their game changing 4K projector and it was just too early for it's time, major changes at Sony for the people who were supporting this project (let's be blunt, they were all let go..) and basically became abandonware once the updated mid-level models were released. They also abandoned the development of the media players (1st and 2nd gen) and then went on to release a 'new' UHD streaming service but only for their TV's. You have to wonder who makes these decisions at Sony.

on the flip side - JVC had done quite a bit in comparison to support the wild west of HDR. Firmware update for compatibility with the Samsung Player, 2020 profiles, general guidelines for HDR settings, etc. Not perfect but a heck of a first attempt and certainly more than Sony or Epson has done so far in the arena.

For Epson, I expect we'll see the Epson 11K (sounds good why not) with full 18GB HDMI + HDR + WCG support and maybe some fire sales of left over LS10K stock in the fall. Sony - maybe a refresh of the 665, it's hard to say since the 500/600 carried over for 2 years. I think JVC will carry over for 2017.
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Old 05-11-2016, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

For Epson, I expect we'll see the Epson 11K (sounds good why not) with full 18GB HDMI + HDR + WCG support and maybe some fire sales of left over LS10K stock in the fall. Sony - maybe a refresh of the 665, it's hard to say since the 500/600 carried over for 2 years. I think JVC will carry over for 2017.
That's my guess with JVC too. I could see maybe a higher end native 4K unit, but it would probably be priced higher than I would want to pay...especially at this stage. Maybe they'll have something for 2018 that is native 4K and priced similarly to the RS500/600.


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Old 05-11-2016, 12:33 PM
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Watching Deadpool last night and seeing how remarkable it looked on the RS600 cements my decision to pass along my VW1100, I don't miss it for a minute.
It's still quite amazing to read those sentiments. Given the technology, status and cost of the Sony VW1100, it says great things about what JVC has achieved at much less cost.

I continue to be very happy that I opted out of buying the Sony 600 4K model a couple of years ago to stick with JVC. At the time it was a choice for me between the better black levels and new DI of the JVC vs the brighter image of the Sony. Once I saw the RS57 in action in my home, I was very glad I went with the (much cheaper!) JVC. And now with the RS600 I get both - the higher brightness with JVC contrast!
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Old 05-11-2016, 02:58 PM - Thread Starter
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It's still quite amazing to read those sentiments. Given the technology, status and cost of the Sony VW1100, it says great things about what JVC has achieved at much less cost.

I continue to be very happy that I opted out of buying the Sony 600 4K model a couple of years ago to stick with JVC. At the time it was a choice for me between the better black levels and new DI of the JVC vs the brighter image of the Sony. Once I saw the RS57 in action in my home, I was very glad I went with the (much cheaper!) JVC. And now with the RS600 I get both - the higher brightness with JVC contrast!
The 1100 certainly has a great lens but for it's relatively high price point - it's the other areas I wanted to see improvements like the built in 1080P scaling and average 3D (in comparison to today's JVC's). Plus adding 2020 support + HDR + higher native contrast. This could have been the VW1200, a lamp based stop-gap between the 15K MSRP VW665 and the 60K VW5000ES. I don't think it will happen though, I expect we'll see the VW1100 drop off their sales list and we'll only see the entry / mid 4K units + 5000ES next year.

I'm good for a while. I still have the RS46 and .95 DC4 Planar that I may pass along to others. I'll likely keep the Sharp 30K since it's one of the nicest 3D DLP's i've seen and their 3D glasses are my favorites of all the countless glasses i've tried.
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Old 05-11-2016, 07:24 PM
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it's a shame, this was supposed to be their game changing 4K projector and it was just too early for it's time, major changes at Sony for the people who were supporting this project (let's be blunt, they were all let go..) and basically became abandonware once the updated mid-level models were released. They also abandoned the development of the media players (1st and 2nd gen) and then went on to release a 'new' UHD streaming service but only for their TV's. You have to wonder who makes these decisions at Sony.
I've always been fascinated whenever I hear new announcements from Sony - they're always up for something...different. I bet their next 4K model will be an affordable UST 4K projector.
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Old 05-12-2016, 06:56 AM
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I've always been fascinated whenever I hear new announcements from Sony - they're always up for something...different. I bet their next 4K model will be an affordable UST 4K projector.
They already have one, but it's $50,000 and I cannot see the price dropping that much on an upcoming model to be considered "affordable".


http://www.sony.com/electronics/projectors-4k/lspx-w1s


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Old 05-12-2016, 07:17 AM
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they already have one, but it's $50,000 and i cannot see the price dropping that much on an upcoming model to be considered "affordable".


http://www.sony.com/electronics/projectors-4k/lspx-w1s
$60,000.

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Old 05-12-2016, 07:28 AM
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$60,000.
Says $50,000 on the Sony site...did it go up?


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Old 05-12-2016, 10:33 AM
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Says $50,000 on the Sony site...did it go up?
My bad. I should have clicked on the link. I thought you were talking VW5000ES.

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Old 05-12-2016, 11:42 AM
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50-60k?
What's the difference at that point! ; )

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Why waste $ on more cheap stuff, it's like challenging a dragon with a pocket knife.
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Old 05-12-2016, 11:49 AM
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50-60k?
What's the difference at that point! ; )

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A used car.

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Old 05-12-2016, 11:51 AM
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I have a sneeking suspicion that most folks that drop 50-60K on a PJ don't drive used cars, although that 10K will help with kids college tuition or a used car for THEM! ;>)

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Old 05-12-2016, 12:19 PM
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I actually had this discussion with my GF who thinks spending $60k on a projector is insane. Some people think it should only be rich people buying them,

"Why?" I asked "because you could buy a $60k car?!", so I said "but I already have a car and what if I don't care much about them? So I spend $60k on something else instead."

A lot of people that aren't considered "rich" own $60k cars because somehow is more sane? Why can't I get a $60k loan for a projector if I don't care about cars and getting a loan for a $60k car, what difference does it make?
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Old 05-12-2016, 12:31 PM
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I actually had this discussion with my GF who thinks spending $60k on a projector is insane. Some people think it should only be rich people buying them,

"Why?" I asked "because you could buy a $60k car?!", so I said "but I already have a car and what if I don't care much about them? So I spend $60k on something else instead."

A lot of people that aren't considered "rich" own $60k cars because somehow is more sane? Why can't I get a $60k loan for a projector if I don't care about cars and getting a loan for a $60k car, what difference does it make?
Damn right! Which are you going to get more enjoyment out of? Not a car guy, drive that '95 Subaru with 250k miles on the dash. Drive that sucker home and watch your fancy vw5000 PJ. It won't be until that day that your car breaks down on you halfway through your commute that you'll be cussing that fancy PJ
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Old 05-12-2016, 12:41 PM - Thread Starter
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it's a remarkable amount of $$ when the HDR landscape is still in it's infancy and there is likely Dolby Vision to be developed over the next few years. I sense a VW1100 scenario happening all over again. cart before horse.

some will just have to slum it with these affordable 1700+ lumen JVC's with best in class native contrast.
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Old 05-12-2016, 12:44 PM
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it's a remarkable amount of $$ when the HDR landscape is still in it's infancy and there is likely Dolby Vision to be developed over the next few years. I sense a VW1100 scenario happening all over again. cart before horse.

some will just have to slum it with these affordable 1700+ lumen JVC's with best in class native contrast.
I suppose the difference being that the HDMI card is hotswappable or replaceable. I forget which phrase was used. Also it's programable enough to update new HDMI standards as they come. If the video processing solution inside is custom enough it could be fairly "future proof". But the price is still too rich for my blood.
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Old 05-12-2016, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by LondonBenji View Post
I actually had this discussion with my GF who thinks spending $60k on a projector is insane. Some people think it should only be rich people buying them,

"Why?" I asked "because you could buy a $60k car?!", so I said "but I already have a car and what if I don't care much about them? So I spend $60k on something else instead."

A lot of people that aren't considered "rich" own $60k cars because somehow is more sane? Why can't I get a $60k loan for a projector if I don't care about cars and getting a loan for a $60k car, what difference does it make?
Please don't take it personal, I was referring to what I personally think the AVERAGE person that drops that kinda coin on a PJ would be like.
It was more or less a joke, I don't live in that stratosphere, so peeps like me that grew up scratchin' goof around about that stuff.
No harm meant.


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Old 05-12-2016, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by LondonBenji View Post
I actually had this discussion with my GF who thinks spending $60k on a projector is insane. Some people think it should only be rich people buying them,

"Why?" I asked "because you could buy a $60k car?!", so I said "but I already have a car and what if I don't care much about them? So I spend $60k on something else instead."

A lot of people that aren't considered "rich" own $60k cars because somehow is more sane? Why can't I get a $60k loan for a projector if I don't care about cars and getting a loan for a $60k car, what difference does it make?
As much as cars are depreciating AV-technology is much, much worse. That pj will be obsolete in 2 years and worth pennies on the dollar after 5. I wouldn't take any loan for these kind of things. If I have money I can do without I gladly spend it, but I would never take a car type loan on that.
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Old 05-12-2016, 02:03 PM
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They already have one, but it's $50,000 and I cannot see the price dropping that much on an upcoming model to be considered "affordable".


http://www.sony.com/electronics/projectors-4k/lspx-w1s
This is their flagship model. Sony has always introduced affordable versions of their flagship in a year or two, such as the Qualia - followed by a Ruby, and then a Pearl. Same with their 4Ks I believe
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Old 05-12-2016, 02:07 PM
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it's a remarkable amount of $$ when the HDR landscape is still in it's infancy and there is likely Dolby Vision to be developed over the next few years. I sense a VW1100 scenario happening all over again. cart before horse.

some will just have to slum it with these affordable 1700+ lumen JVC's with best in class native contrast.

That's the thing I like about JVCs even with their top models - they're within reach (somewhere within the used car price range is what I'm thinking)
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Old 05-12-2016, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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I suppose the difference being that the HDMI card is hotswappable or replaceable. I forget which phrase was used. Also it's programable enough to update new HDMI standards as they come. If the video processing solution inside is custom enough it could be fairly "future proof". But the price is still too rich for my blood.
Can they vs. will they.... sounds like a perfect lead into the VW6000ES - Now with Dolby Vision in 2017-2018.

they also could have done another motherboard swap to bring current the prior 25K MSRP flagship model but we both know there is zero chance of that happening. So the 1100 was a good lesson - if it doesn't do everything you want out of the box, don't expect miracles in the future.




different topic - wow is this Dune 4K solo small!! much smaller than I was expecting, about 1/2 the size of the mede8ter. now that could hold a 4TB 3.5 HD but it was cumbersome to carry around when I would visit friends.

I just ordered a 2TB Seagate 7MM drive just to have some local storage.



I was only able to run a few quick test but it did a great job playing back an mkv I had from the Deadpool BD and it plays it perfect. Same thing with a number of the 3D MVC mkv's as well. So that is a good start.
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Old 05-12-2016, 04:41 PM
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Damn right! Which are you going to get more enjoyment out of? Not a car guy, drive that '95 Subaru with 250k miles on the dash. Drive that sucker home and watch your fancy vw5000 PJ. It won't be until that day that your car breaks down on you halfway through your commute that you'll be cussing that fancy PJ
Wow, that's funny...we both have LS10000s, and both drive '95 model cars (Camry in my case).
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Old 05-13-2016, 07:12 AM
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Wow, that's funny...we both have LS10000s, and both drive '95 model cars (Camry in my case).
Maybe long lost brothers?


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Old 05-13-2016, 07:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Dune 4K Solo + 3D MKV files

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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I was only able to run a few quick test but it did a great job playing back an mkv I had from the Deadpool BD and it plays it perfect. Same thing with a number of the 3D MVC mkv's as well. So that is a good start.
quoting myself to correct a mistake - a possible deal breaker for this device. These were 3D ISO's that were playing fine - the Dune 4K Solo will not currently play back a full frame packed MVC MKV file.

These are excellent ways to rip just the movie + HD audio with zero loss from the original 3D BD disk. Cut out everything I don't want and just play the movie instantly. Something the Mede8ter has been doing flawlessly since 2013.


sooo... very disappointed at this point. I am going to see if there is an update in the pipeline. Until then, I can't recommend a near $400 media player that can't play back the same files that the $200 model can from 3 years ago.
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Old 05-13-2016, 07:48 AM
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For info, dune cannot display correct color space especially green when using spears n munsil to check. This happens on the new jvc projector rs500/600 but it display correctly on the older x500. For mede8er u need to uncheck xv color space to make sure it display correctly on the new rs500/600.
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Old 05-13-2016, 08:05 AM
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What's to be expected at/around the upcoming CEDIA on the high-end 4K home projector front? Is anything announced yet from manufacturers / vendors surrounding new laser models from JVC, Sony or Epson?

Last edited by RobTi; 05-13-2016 at 08:11 AM.
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