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post #15121 of 16165 Old 09-09-2016, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
interesting info below. So now 2 major consoles without proper UHD BD support.


PS4 Pro will NOT support UHD 4k Blu Ray

In its own words, here's why Sony cut out the 4K UHD Blu-ray player from the PS4 Pro: "Our feeling is that while physical media continues to be a big part of the games business, we see a trend on video towards streaming. Certainly with our user base, it's the second biggest use case for people's time on the system so we place more emphasis on that area," Sony Interactive Entertainment President Andrew House told The Guardian.

Read more: http://www.tweaktown.com/news/53814/...yer/index.html
Curious that Sony has no 4K Blu Ray player.

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post #15122 of 16165 Old 09-09-2016, 02:07 PM
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Curious that Sony has no 4K Blu Ray player.
They, like some others, may be waiting for the MediaTek chip solution.
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post #15123 of 16165 Old 09-09-2016, 02:47 PM - Thread Starter
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We've known for years that Sony was trying to push their online streaming services. First with the 4K media streamer that was abandoned. then they did it for round 2, then abandoned again. then another device that was for the TV's only.. they are only going to release a UHD BD player because they have to. It won't likely be of the caliber of the Panasonic UB900 or Oppo's future offering.

On this topic, there is info that KScape may rise from the ashes. For how long, who knows. This is why the relatively low cost way a number of us have been storing our media is such a great advantage. You buy the movie and store it on your server. There are no services to go out of business and leave you stranded with expensive, non functioning hardware. Or digital only downloads that you can no longer access.

Dune has been releasing firmware updates for their 4K Solo, the latest is working quite well. We watched Jungle Book 3D on it and it played great with no issues.

Long live the HTPC and network media players..
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post #15124 of 16165 Old 09-10-2016, 03:43 AM
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Yes, I hope Kaleidescape live long and prosper. Not just because I own some of their hardware, but because any company that innovates and strives to increase the quality of the viewing experience in this hobby of ours deserves congratulation and moral support.

That being said, once bitten twice shy - I'll continue to use my Dune as a secondary source and continue to buy physical media backed up on the NAS, rather than direct from the Kal store, for the very reasons you mention above.

Incidentally on the 3D, have you compared the 3D playback via the Dune to playing the physical disc in your Panny? I just wondered if there was any performance difference between the two?
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post #15125 of 16165 Old 09-10-2016, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
We've known for years that Sony was trying to push their online streaming services. First with the 4K media streamer that was abandoned. then they did it for round 2, then abandoned again. then another device that was for the TV's only.. they are only going to release a UHD BD player because they have to. It won't likely be of the caliber of the Panasonic UB900 or Oppo's future offering.

On this topic, there is info that KScape may rise from the ashes. For how long, who knows. This is why the relatively low cost way a number of us have been storing our media is such a great advantage. You buy the movie and store it on your server. There are no services to go out of business and leave you stranded with expensive, non functioning hardware. Or digital only downloads that you can no longer access.

Dune has been releasing firmware updates for their 4K Solo, the latest is working quite well. We watched Jungle Book 3D on it and it played great with no issues.

Long live the HTPC and network media players..
Hey Jason,

With the landscape of 4k capable media players as it is right now, is the Dune 4k solo the go to device for playing 3D BD isos? I might want to grab a specific media unit that can play back these isos. Does the Dune access the Poster and film info kind of like Kodi does? That would be a great feature, I am not a fan of a rudimentarty list of films, I like the whole 'Netflix Poster' view experience.

I would still use my HTPC and Kodi for 1080p 2D material for MadVR, but frankly, I am finding Nvidia and PowerDVD to be a very flaky affair. For eg, Sammy's adventures looks horrendous in 3d despite all the settings being correct, and only when I did a clean reinstall of all the drivers did 3D magically begin to work with the correct depth etc and only then it looked great, no explanation as to what the problem was etc, I also find at times I have to switch around the L/R 3D first image setting to get the depth right, its reversed at times for no reason. A bit of a buzz kill.

I just want a unit which treats the ISO exactly like I have inserted a disc. I don't think HTPC has this as trouble free as I would like it right now, even though I do have a script in Kodi which auto launches and activates 3D mode when I want to watch content, I am just not convinced I am watching totally glitch free presentations at times.

What are your thoughts?

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post #15126 of 16165 Old 09-10-2016, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Yes, I hope Kaleidescape live long and prosper. Not just because I own some of their hardware, but because any company that innovates and strives to increase the quality of the viewing experience in this hobby of ours deserves congratulation and moral support.

That being said, once bitten twice shy - I'll continue to use my Dune as a secondary source and continue to buy physical media backed up on the NAS, rather than direct from the Kal store, for the very reasons you mention above.

Incidentally on the 3D, have you compared the 3D playback via the Dune to playing the physical disc in your Panny? I just wondered if there was any performance difference between the two?
Looks like people with a lot of money are interested n making sure K survives.

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post #15127 of 16165 Old 09-10-2016, 08:10 AM
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Bit of tech question guys....I jus read that the Epson 5040 cant do 4K 4:2:2 @ 60hz 10bit/12bit. It can Only do that at 30hz?

So my worry is if I get a PS4 Pro and a game supports 4K with HDR I would be limted to just 30hz (so 30 frame per second) instead of 60? So il be limted to just 30 frames per second even if the game supports above that?

Second option is running at 4k 8bit 4:4:4 @ 60hz but then I lose wider colours and HDR?

This is so confusing
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post #15128 of 16165 Old 09-10-2016, 11:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Bit of tech question guys....I jus read that the Epson 5040 cant do 4K 4:2:2 @ 60hz 10bit/12bit. It can Only do that at 30hz?

So my worry is if I get a PS4 Pro and a game supports 4K with HDR I would be limted to just 30hz (so 30 frame per second) instead of 60? So il be limted to just 30 frames per second even if the game supports above that?

Second option is running at 4k 8bit 4:4:4 @ 60hz but then I lose wider colours and HDR?

This is so confusing
My first question would be his how is the PS4 going to handle 4K gaming @ 60hz? what compromises are they going to have to make? This is GTX 1080 territory.

where did that info from the Epson come from?
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post #15129 of 16165 Old 09-10-2016, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Incidentally on the 3D, have you compared the 3D playback via the Dune to playing the physical disc in your Panny? I just wondered if there was any performance difference between the two?
Hi, I haven't had a chance yet to compare but will soon. I'll update if I see any obvious differences between the 2. So far, the Mede8ter and Dune are nearly identical. I wish Dune would update to allow for the 3D MVC MKV playback, I have to use the original ISO on the Dune for 3D to work.
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post #15130 of 16165 Old 09-10-2016, 11:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey Jason,

With the landscape of 4k capable media players as it is right now, is the Dune 4k solo the go to device for playing 3D BD isos? I might want to grab a specific media unit that can play back these isos. Does the Dune access the Poster and film info kind of like Kodi does? That would be a great feature, I am not a fan of a rudimentarty list of films, I like the whole 'Netflix Poster' view experience.

I would still use my HTPC and Kodi for 1080p 2D material for MadVR, but frankly, I am finding Nvidia and PowerDVD to be a very flaky affair. For eg, Sammy's adventures looks horrendous in 3d despite all the settings being correct, and only when I did a clean reinstall of all the drivers did 3D magically begin to work with the correct depth etc and only then it looked great, no explanation as to what the problem was etc, I also find at times I have to switch around the L/R 3D first image setting to get the depth right, its reversed at times for no reason. A bit of a buzz kill.

I just want a unit which treats the ISO exactly like I have inserted a disc. I don't think HTPC has this as trouble free as I would like it right now, even though I do have a script in Kodi which auto launches and activates 3D mode when I want to watch content, I am just not convinced I am watching totally glitch free presentations at times.

What are your thoughts?
using the HTPC was always a bit of a struggle with 3D which is why I used the Mede8ter for years. It was flawless at playing back 3D MVC MKV's with HD audio. The only problem was it didn't handle BD ISO well (seamless branch issues) so I had to move all ISO to MKV.

The Dune does handle 3D BD ISO, not only full BD menu but easy access to the BD Lite menu which offers immediate movie playback in 3D.

There is a beta scraper that is getting some good feedback, I'll check it out soon and let you know how it looks. For all the $$ we spend on the other toys, this one is pretty affordable and offers a lot of utility. I keep a ton of movies on the internal 2TB drive and it's so small, I can carry it with me.

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post #15131 of 16165 Old 09-10-2016, 01:09 PM
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My first question would be his how is the PS4 going to handle 4K gaming @ 60hz? what compromises are they going to have to make? This is GTX 1080 territory.

where did that info from the Epson come from?
From the review here https://translate.google.com/transla...tory&sandbox=1

Unless I'm reading wrong but seems projector is limited to 24hz refresh when 4K with full colour range. It was mentioned in avforums and few people discussing.

My concern is if PS4 Pro does HDR with wide colour for a game that does do over 30 fps I would be limited by refresh. Last of us remaster has been confirmed as 4K native but at 30fps so that wouldn't effect it but going forward a 60fps game would.

* But I am also unsure if the PS4 Neo even outputs a 10bit/12bit 4:4:4 signal?
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post #15132 of 16165 Old 09-10-2016, 02:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for posting, that is definitely the most detailed Epson 5040 review I've seen so far

https://translate.google.com/transla...tory&sandbox=1

I thought the Epson had the full 18GB HDMI chipset, they are stating it's the older 10.2GB chipset. That makes sense why folks are having issues with the Samsung UHD / 5040 combo. He is clearly stating to stay away from the Samsung + the Xbox for the 5040 and only recommending the Panasonic UB900 at the time.

They did find a way for HDR after some manual settings tweaks on the UB900.


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post #15133 of 16165 Old 09-10-2016, 08:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I have so many pairs of these Xpand 105RF glasses and nowhere to store them. I found this case on Amazon that works great and they fit perfect. definitely recommended, going to order another for the rest of the glasses.

https://www.amazon.com/STORAGE-Micro...dp/B01GEVZ4WM/

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post #15134 of 16165 Old 09-11-2016, 04:43 AM
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hi zombie, I finished watching a Documentary on Richard Attenborough just before, perhaps you are already onto this, but it would seem he has put in quite an effort with the BBC to do a whole series (2 whole collections it would seem) using 3D I like his stuff anyways so put in an order for the 2 box sets.

ps apparently Planet earth 2 he plans to bring out on 4k uhd ! I hope that means will end up on UHD blu-ray at some stage as well

http://4k.com/news/planet-earth-2-fr...video-quality/

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post #15135 of 16165 Old 09-11-2016, 07:47 AM - Thread Starter
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hi zombie, I finished watching a Documentary on Richard Attenborough just before, perhaps you are already onto this, but it would seem he has put in quite an effort with the BBC to do a whole series (2 whole collections it would seem) using 3D I like his stuff anyways so put in an order for the 2 box sets.

ps apparently Planet earth 2 he plans to bring out on 4k uhd ! I hope that means will end up on UHD blu-ray at some stage as well

http://4k.com/news/planet-earth-2-fr...video-quality/
I've confused the brothers in the past, David is the fellow that does the documentaries.

that is great news if they release a PE2 in 3D and UHD.

2 of my favorites he did was IMAX Kingdom of the Plants (2 hours).



Also Micromonsters



Micromonsters was a remarkable 3D presentation, they used a pair of 5K RED cameras for the closeups and is some of the most extreme 3D i've seen.



Great quotes from this wise gentlemen...

Sir David Attenborough has seen the introduction of colour and HD, and thinks 3D is the next step

He said: "The wonderful thing about 3D in macro work is that you suddenly see even the most familiar things in this new way.
"It's like science fiction. You see an extraordinary animal that's huge on screen with amazing jaws and it's a blowfly!"
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post #15136 of 16165 Old 09-11-2016, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
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https://hdtvpolska.com/epson-eh-tw93...d-4k-ultra-hd/

some additional details from this 5040 review



"HDMI 1, although it works in a standard 2.0a supports HDCP 2.2, it is limited to 340MHz. This means that it can accept the resolution 4Kp60 / 4Kp50 format only 8-bit 4: 2: 0.
It does not provide 18Gbps capacity "

This looks like it will cause an immediate issue with the Samsung player which doesn't play nice with the bandwidth constrained 10.2Gbps chipsets.

Unfortunately, not every player is in such a situation easily. Samsung BD-KU8500, for example, refuses to cooperate and degrades the signal to 8 bit without HDR and a wide palette of colors. Xbox One S does not want to specify the content of HDR.


It does look like they got HDR working correctly with the $699 US Panasonic UB900 but only after very specific settings that are in the review.

HDR1 mode 1 looks like it's clips whites aggressively, HDR2 looks like a better choice but does darken the image based on the comparison slider.
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post #15137 of 16165 Old 09-11-2016, 09:59 AM
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Hi, I haven't had a chance yet to compare but will soon. I'll update if I see any obvious differences between the 2. So far, the Mede8ter and Dune are nearly identical. I wish Dune would update to allow for the 3D MVC MKV playback, I have to use the original ISO on the Dune for 3D to work.
Does the Dune to native output/source direct yet?
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post #15138 of 16165 Old 09-11-2016, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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I'll take a look and see, I don't recall seeing it in the menus. I'm taking a look at the Dune vs. the UB900 on the Planar to see if I can tell any real differences between the 2 using Oblivion and Deadpool BD's.
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post #15139 of 16165 Old 09-12-2016, 02:27 AM
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Haha good pickup watch a 1 hour documentary on David and then write Richard

Looking forward to watching his 3D discs when they arrive and hopefully the 4K pe2 on uhd when arrives
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post #15140 of 16165 Old 09-12-2016, 02:44 AM
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Does the Dune to native output/source direct yet?
In essence yes I think so. Certainly I can set mine to show a specific resolution and frame rate for the interface, and it will revert to the native resolution and frame rate of the files I play.

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I'll take a look and see, I don't recall seeing it in the menus. I'm taking a look at the Dune vs. the UB900 on the Planar to see if I can tell any real differences between the 2 using Oblivion and Deadpool BD's.
I'm keen to hear what you think. I done a few casual comparisons on Prometheus and Oblivion versus my Strato. I would say the output quality is pretty close (incredibly close when you consider the price difference). The Dune seems to have slight bit more noise and 'edgeness' to it - hard to describe, but the image isn't quiet as clean and solid. But the difference is very slight, and so small it could well be expectation bias. I need to see if I can take some still photos to compare.
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post #15141 of 16165 Old 09-12-2016, 05:47 AM
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In essence yes I think so. Certainly I can set mine to show a specific resolution and frame rate for the interface, and it will revert to the native resolution and frame rate of the files I play.
So if you play DVDs, it will switch to 480i? I'm just trying to be clear since the older Dune's didn't do that, and it's getting increasingly hard to find anything that can. If so, maybe I'll have to pick one of these up, though I'm pretty happy with Kodi/LibreELEC from a functionality standpoint.
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post #15142 of 16165 Old 09-12-2016, 05:49 AM
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So if you play DVDs, it will switch to 480i? I'm just trying to be clear since the older Dune's didn't do that, and it's getting increasingly hard to find anything that can. If so, maybe I'll have to pick one of these up, though I'm pretty happy with Kodi/LibreELEC from a functionality standpoint.
Ah, I see. I'd have to rip a DVD and test that then.
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Yeah, a lot of stuff will switch between 60Hz and 24Hz based on frame rate, Kodi/LibreElec will do that, but my SageTV HD300 is my only device left (since I sold my Pioneer 51FD) that actually did native resolution switching/source direct, actually changing it's resolution and timing to match the source, ie 480i->480i, 1080i->1080i, etc, basically being able to pass all the deinterlacing scaling duties down the chain. I've actually resorted to processing all my video based DVDs offline since the deinterlacing in most of these devices isn't that great.
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post #15144 of 16165 Old 09-12-2016, 09:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
Yeah, a lot of stuff will switch between 60Hz and 24Hz based on frame rate, Kodi/LibreElec will do that, but my SageTV HD300 is my only device left (since I sold my Pioneer 51FD) that actually did native resolution switching/source direct, actually changing it's resolution and timing to match the source, ie 480i->480i, 1080i->1080i, etc, basically being able to pass all the deinterlacing scaling duties down the chain. I've actually resorted to processing all my video based DVDs offline since the deinterlacing in most of these devices isn't that great.
I still have my Pioneer BDP-05FD, that was a big feature back in the day for source direct. I was playing some older videos on the Dune over the week and noticed it was switching automatically to 480P on the Planar. I didn't think to try a DVD but will check out one of my favorites, Alice in Chains Unplugged and let you know.
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post #15145 of 16165 Old 09-12-2016, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
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some interesting info from Cine4home, I see he added RS600/X9000 contrast to his original review.

RS600/X9000 wide open nearly 3 times the native of the VW550.





There was also no change to the P3 color space, I believe there was some early rumor they were going for full P3.

VW550



JVC RS600/X9000



JVC deserves some kudos for implementing a filter that covers pull P3 and also costs relatively minimal light loss, especially when compared to the VW1100 which was significant with the filter engaged. No real way to use it anyway with UHD so it was a bit of a waste, just too far ahead of it's time to be useful with UHD WCG content.

This is all relevant to compare since the current 2016 JVC's will carry over into 2017.

large pricing advantage in the US, full P3, 1800+ lumens, best in class native + excellent 3D x-talk control.



Based on new info on the VW550 / Epson 5040 - are the current JVC's the only projectors with the full 18GB chipset besides the 5000ES and 4K JVC? this is looking to be the case.
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post #15146 of 16165 Old 09-12-2016, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
some interesting info from Cine4home, I see he added RS600/X9000 contrast to his original review.

RS600/X9000 wide open nearly 3 times the native of the VW550.





There was also no change to the P3 color space, I believe there was some early rumor they were going for full P3.


JVC deserves some kudos for implementing a filter that covers pull P3 and also costs relatively minimal light loss, especially when compared to the VW1100 which was significant with the filter engaged. No real way to use it anyway with UHD so it was a bit of a waste, just too far ahead of it's time to be useful with UHD WCG content.

This is all relevant to compare since the current 2016 JVC's will carry over into 2017.

large pricing advantage in the US, full P3, 1800+ lumens, best in class native + excellent 3D x-talk control.



Based on new info on the VW550 / Epson 5040 - are the current JVC's the only projectors with the full 18GB chipset besides the 5000ES and 4K JVC? this is looking to be the case.
It is looking that way, but Epson could very easily pull a rabbit out of the hat with the LS10000 replacement.

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post #15147 of 16165 Old 09-12-2016, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
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the replacement should have the full 18Gb chipset, brigher than 1100 D65 lumens, HDR support and more important, proper BT2020 to P3 mapping so if the lumens are the same, folks can take advantage of UHD SDR WCG.

2016 JVC's were released nearly a year before the 5040/6040, why wouldn't they have included the full chipset in this round? I can't see cost being a big factor at this point.

we can see folks struggling already with UHD players and HDR on the new Epson's, thankfully that review we were discussing did a deep dive on the specific settings to use for the Panasonic UB900. Samsung and Xbox were not working correctly. that leaves the Philips potentially but need to hear from others if it works as well as the UB900.
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post #15148 of 16165 Old 09-12-2016, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
some interesting info from Cine4home, I see he added RS600/X9000 contrast to his original review.

RS600/X9000 wide open nearly 3 times the native of the VW550.





There was also no change to the P3 color space, I believe there was some early rumor they were going for full P3.

VW550



JVC RS600/X9000



JVC deserves some kudos for implementing a filter that covers pull P3 and also costs relatively minimal light loss, especially when compared to the VW1100 which was significant with the filter engaged. No real way to use it anyway with UHD so it was a bit of a waste, just too far ahead of it's time to be useful with UHD WCG content.

This is all relevant to compare since the current 2016 JVC's will carry over into 2017.

large pricing advantage in the US, full P3, 1800+ lumens, best in class native + excellent 3D x-talk control.



Based on new info on the VW550 / Epson 5040 - are the current JVC's the only projectors with the full 18GB chipset besides the 5000ES and 4K JVC? this is looking to be the case
.
That's surprising.

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post #15149 of 16165 Old 09-12-2016, 05:26 PM - Thread Starter
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@TheSony4KRises

Posting this info here since it is the comparison thread and all opinions are welcome.

the majority of 1000/1100 owners here have moved on to other projectors today, a good number went to the RS600. There are many opinions to ask, or better yet, compare yourself. for me it was an easy decision after a few months of this in a stack with a split source.



late 2016, no real use of the P3 filter, no support for UHD, even with SDR WCG.

3D that wasn't great to begin with (x-talk) and 3D lumen output that wasn't close to the 2D lumens.

No manual control of the iris, no built in CMS.

No firmware updates.

banding (now being addressed for the 5000ES many years later)

overcooked reality creation (tempered a bit by the 1100 update but not much)

The annoying horizontal bar that would show up in low IRE content



panel contrast degradation that affected a number of folks that recognized it and had Sony repair it.

I wanted to love this projector when I first got it but the high price and concerns above didn't make sense to keep it. The classified forum and ebay were filled with 1000/1100's this past year.


many of these issues were addressed with the mid-range Sony 4K models, this is clearly where they are putting their effort now. I think the 1000/1100 projector was just too far ahead of it's time for it's own good.


The JVC Z1 is comfortably going to take the VW1100's place at this price point, Sony either wasn't expecting the Z1 or has a less bright '2500ES' lined up at 1/2 the current 5000ES asking price.
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post #15150 of 16165 Old 09-12-2016, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
@TheSony4KRises

Posting this info here since it is the comparison thread and all opinions are welcome.

the majority of 1000/1100 owners here have moved on to other projectors today, a good number went to the RS600. There are many opinions to ask, or better yet, compare yourself. for me it was an easy decision after a few months of this in a stack with a split source.



late 2016, no real use of the P3 filter, no support for UHD, even with SDR WCG.

3D that wasn't great to begin with (x-talk) and 3D lumen output that wasn't close to the 2D lumens.

No manual control of the iris, no built in CMS.

No firmware updates.

banding (now being addressed for the 5000ES many years later)

overcooked reality creation (tempered a bit by the 1100 update but not much)

The annoying horizontal bar that would show up in low IRE content



panel contrast degradation that affected a number of folks that recognized it and had Sony repair it.

I wanted to love this projector when I first got it but the high price and concerns above didn't make sense to keep it. The classified forum and ebay were filled with 1000/1100's this past year.


many of these issues were addressed with the mid-range Sony 4K models, this is clearly where they are putting their effort now. I think the 1000/1100 projector was just too far ahead of it's time for it's own good.


The JVC Z1 is comfortably going to take the VW1100's place at this price point, Sony either wasn't expecting the Z1 or has a less bright '2500ES' lined up at 1/2 the current 5000ES asking price.
I remember when I was the first person to utter that I didn't see a major difference from the JVC RS55 and I was harassed for about two years. I just didn't see what everyone was seeing at the time. I had a HP screen, so the brightness factor was a mute point. Since it's been dissected by Seegs and Zombie, I think everyone is running away from this projector for the cheaper JVC. I always said a JVC and a .95 DLP combo, which is still 1/3 of the 1000/1100es, is a much superior setup. However, the current JVCs are all most may need today.
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