Originally Posted by zombie10k
the issue they have (and most here will have) is that photos and videos can't properly represent what we see in person and are no substitute for basic, objective measurements.
I'm yet again wondering if this is worth going into discussion, but anyway...
The reason why some people would say that is because their cameras make some projectors look worst than they do in person. Digital cameras are trying to capture "lossy" light that has degenerated in brightness, quality and accuracy since leaving the projector several feet away to a screen that degenerated it again and eventually the light gets represented as the "image". There's just not enough for a regular camera to pick up the images as accurately as the human eye can. Which is why the camera has to be callibrated in order to capture as close to what the eye can see.
Fortunately some cameras+sensors+lenses do the job better than others and they CAN come pretty close. There are some reviewers who do take the time to produce visual results of projectors either in standalone tests and in comparisons. The point is that having some visual cues is always better than seeing nothing at all, and certainly better than blindly taking someone's word for it.
Secondly, one can still make relevant comparisons regardless of the camera as long as the projectors are subjected to the EXACT SAME TEST CONDITIONS and in the same shots. We can see which projector was brighter, which one had more "pop" in color, which one looked more detailed than the other etc.
Thirdly, any seasoned enthusiasts know that figures published by manufacturers (of any products) tend to be highly optimistic because of the kind of tests they do to produce the most favorable results. We see this with cars exaggerating MPG figures, and we've seen projectors like the LG that projects no where near the lumens it claims (I would be surprised if you weren't aware of this). It may be possible that LG exaggerated their lumens the same way they exaggerated their contrast levels. Yet so many people are still sticking to the manufacturer's claim to dispute the fact that the H1 could not possibly be brighter or better. That's the conclusion of armchair experts who only read stuff off the surface, take someone else's opinions and sprout off their "expert" opinions as if they were facts without validating anything or understanding anything about how tests were conducted. They're the same people who thinks that the Sony VPL-VW500ES with only 1700 lumens is worst than a Benq HT2050 with 2200 lumens
On the chinese site above, the LG looks like it was configured to look terrible in comparison.
What is their testing method? neither projector appears calibrated in those tests.
That was my initial reaction too, but then I thought, why would anyone do that? It looks like someone brought two projectors together and took pictures. If that person tried to discredit the LG by reducing its brightness for the sake of making the H1 look better then he/she will have no credibility the next time they try to post another review.
Why would anyone want to risk that? While not quite the scientific test that some people may be looking for, both projectors were tested under the exact same conditions which can still provide some useful data.
Here's a different test:
Here's yet another video comparing the H1 with another LG (PF1000u):
Again, the H1 is still brighter and looks better, even though the LG still has "more" lumens and "higher" contrast levels.
I cannot elaborate these evidence enough. You even quoted the person who said that the H1 was brighter than the PF1500. I could bring my H1 to the same shop that has the LG and do a comparison to put the final nail in the coffin, but there is enough evidence to save me the trip (UPDATE: Actually I might do this if I get down there again). We all need to remind ourselves that the LG is already a 2 year old projector and progress in technology has been made since then. I do think it's still a good projector that is available in most places for fans of LG or people who want an LED projector. Prices have dropped dramatically enough for it to become affordable for first time projector owners, which is always a win for those on a budget.
If you want to help promote this product to others, perhaps consider picking up an inexpensive light meter and a colorimeter. With any projector, most here are going to want to know 3 basics things. D65 lumens (accurate greyscale) , color gamut accuracy and native contrast. This basic info is worth a ton in comparison to all the photos in the world of this projector.
Do all end-users have to do this? I would be far more concerned with these things if my projector was $2000 and I want to prove a point in a meaningless numbers game for a pissing contest on who has the best projector *rolleyes*. It's just easier to post pictures/videos and run a basic eye test just like anybody else would. I'm no more a promoter of this product than anybody else who promote their projectors for years and still going. If those people can post anything close to a photo evidence/s or video samples or prove that RBE/color wheel issues/fan issues/etc don't exist, or reviewers can actually support all their reviews with evidence then perhaps I would be more encouraged to take time out from my schedule to go buy all these things. But for now these guys have not proven anything so doing anything further isn't worth my time.
1 owner mentioned measuring less than 400:1 native contrast. That's less than half the PF1500 which might make sense knowing the H1 is brighter, maybe overdriving the LED's for the extra 200-300 lumens.
This is interesting because one would have to read through a lot of pages to look for the only thing that matters to them to get one of the many inaccurate information posted by those posters designed to slander the H1, and all the while trying not to bring up all the issues with the LG.
If it's the same person I'm thinking of, then it's easy. He was trolling and had some seriously deranged agenda going on while trying to claim every problems and issues a projector could possibly have under the sun about "his" H1 (he was trying to get his money back after buying it out of a whim so he claimed). You only have to use logic to easily dispute his claims. If the LG and the H1 both share the same DMD chip then why would their native contrast levels vary so dramatically given the nature of technology improving over time and that the H1 is newer and better? Secondly why would anyone consider tests lke these to be accurate?
"There is no standard as to how to measure contrast ratio. In other words, a TV manufacturer could measure the maximum light output of 1 pixel driven at some normally unobtainable maximum, then measure that same pixel with no signal going to it at all. This hardly represents what you'd see at home, but without a standard, such trivialities don't matter to TV manufacturers.
Worse, contrast ratio numbers have gotten so extreme, there is literally no way to measure some of them. What happens more often than not is the marketing department will come up with the number it needs to sell the product.
The engineers will shuffle their feet, and stare at the wall, and magically the TV has that contrast ratio."
The same can be said about projectors, which has no where near the market TV has but they have to do anything to sell in order to compete. The trolls who post those inaccurate information or claimed to be unbiased but are being negativity anyway are gone. They don't matter anymore.
Look, numbers are fun for fanboys to read and create some agendas out of them. The rest of us just want the best product we can buy to provide the services we need. Some people expect the standards to be met (and most projectors do meet those standards), while other people expect much more (and they pay for those expections). Everyone has different requirements and nobody is wrong as long as its their money spent and they're happy with their choice. If I didn't have the H1 today and I had to choose between the LG and H1, how would you convince me that the LG would be better? I have read all 103 pages on the LG thread so it would be tough. I don't blame you if you can't. The LG is due for an upgrade and it has one. I'll be willing to listen to whoever can highlight the advantages that the PF1500W has over the H1.
They could gain a potentially large audience if they send one in for a proper review.
I think they already have, but being a small company they aren't going to have the kind of coverage that a larger and richer company would have so I think its going to take time. Their indiegogo campaign was pretty successful though, so we can only expect good things to come. The more competition the better.