Projector Mini-Shootout Thread - Page 553 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #16561 of 16830 Old 05-14-2017, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
4k Netflix is actually exceptional and quite a bit better than standard bluray in fidelity. The problem is a lot of those Netflix shoes are adding a metric ton of film grain in the edit and destroying any quality that was there... probably to hide the CGI they couldn't afford to make cinema level in quality.

Things like Chefs Table and FOOD in 4k on Netflix are absolutely stunning.

The Last Kingdom is a phenomenal show too. Leagues better than Marco Polo, and better than Vikings.
Yah, Last Kingdom maybe the best show in years in some ways. I could not even finish one ep. of Vikings, bored me to tears.

Marco Polo was ok, but got somewhat boring, the character didn't quite work right, that said I did watch it all the way to the end just to see.

There was another show like the Last Kingdom called Beowulf:Return to the Shieldlands, I thought it had some good acting and it had even better cinematography than the Last Kingdom, but the problem was the writing for each character was a bit tacky. That said, still wished it was not cancelled. It was better than Marco Polo, but not as good as Last Kingdom.

Like I said, I watched too much TV

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post #16562 of 16830 Old 05-15-2017, 05:01 AM
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@Toe - finally watched Rogue One 3D tonight. I'm not sure why some didn't think the 3D was good, I thought it was great throughout the whole movie!

definitely more engaging watching it in 3D vs 2D. This scene look great as he's coming down the hallway

Thanks for the report! I think this was a limited 3d release (?) but I will try and track down a copy.

EDIT: Found one today at a Target I passed by during work
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post #16563 of 16830 Old 05-15-2017, 05:16 AM
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LED fizzled out but I do enjoy using the LG PF1500 LED for TV viewing. non-stop for 2 years and still works like new.
Not yet. There has been some new ones including the one I have (XGIMI). The responses to the LG however have varied from happy to miserable over 2 years and I have seen all the positive comments you've left about it. What made you decide to upgrade finally?

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post #16564 of 16830 Old 05-15-2017, 05:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Not yet. There has been some new ones including the one I have (XGIMI). The responses to the LG however have varied from happy to miserable over 2 years and I have seen all the positive comments you've left about it. What made you decide to upgrade finally?
I have 5 projectors and still use the LG every day for TV. The main problem with these .47 DLP's is the native contrast is even further away from HT use than their .65 counterparts. If you measure the contrast on the XGIMI you'll see it's going to be the same or very close to the PF1500. Fine for TV and some general movie use but these are not in the same league as the typical projectors discussed in this thread (.95 DLP Planar/Runco, Epson LCD, Sony SXRD, JVC LCOS)

The fizzle part I mentioned is that Runco/Planar was a leader with LED in the HT on the .95 DLP models and they couldn't exceed the light output once they hit a ceiling on the LED's. Then went out of business. Optoma tried LED with the .65 HD91 and that was a complete bomb with low light output and a terrible LED dimming 'DI'.

These .47 DLP's are stuck as well. Very good for their intended purpose and the PF1500 puts out a solid 700 lumens @ D65 which is impressive for a projector smaller than a shoe box. I think we were expecting great things from the LED technology and it never quite made it there. (1500+ lumens @ D65 would have been a good goal).
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post #16565 of 16830 Old 05-15-2017, 07:11 AM
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I spent a few hours last night and ended up with a config that looked much better than I was expecting. It was late so i'll have to go back and look at the final settings between the linker and UB900.
Yeah I played around a bit too. I thought I got my RS600 and 8150 brightness matched, but the pictures came out looking significantly different. That and I think I forgot to recalibrate my brightness/contrast...
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post #16566 of 16830 Old 05-15-2017, 08:47 AM
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Hi yes it's the dune 4K solo. I've been using these different media players since ~2008 when PCH came out with the A110. Laptop hard drive inside player raw M2TS files with HD audio was great to see nearly 10 years ago.

The Mede8ter was good for it's time because it could play back the 3D MKV files but the Dune Solo is much better with full BD ISO support with BD menus.

I also run an HTPC as well but these are convenient to set up around the house. I really like the Dune Solo and getting another one for upstairs.


hello zombie10k can the Dune HD Solo 4K play 4k mkv files with dolby atmos
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post #16567 of 16830 Old 05-15-2017, 12:35 PM
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I was in touch with him up until February. He was supposed to be creating another screen. Haven't heard anything since. It's a shame. I guess he didn't have the resources to manufacture the screens. The F3 was incredible. A 3.3 gain screen with very little artifacts. 3D and HDR dream screen, but he didn't produce anymore of them. I'm going to send him an email now.
Blee, didn't get any reply. Time to put it to rest. Too bad his screen does two things so impressively well (importantly for HDR) - color luminosity and non-washing out with intrascene images. Normally these effects get killed off completely on a white screen used in moderate to light colored rooms...but not with his. Plus I've noticed it reflects off screen very minimal light, minimizing reflections in my room, despite achieving a high screen gain with wide-viewing angle, practically at 180 degrees.

Anyhow, focusing now on the audio side - I need an atmos receiver.
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post #16568 of 16830 Old 05-15-2017, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post
I was in touch with him up until February. He was supposed to be creating another screen. Haven't heard anything since. It's a shame. I guess he didn't have the resources to manufacture the screens. The F3 was incredible. A 3.3 gain screen with very little artifacts. 3D and HDR dream screen, but he didn't produce anymore of them. I'm going to send him an email now.
Blee, didn't get any reply. Time to put it to rest. Too bad his screen does two things so impressively well (importantly for HDR) - color luminosity and non-washing out with intrascene images. Normally these effects get killed off completely on a white screen used in moderate to light colored rooms...but not with his. Plus I've noticed it reflects off screen very minimal light, minimizing reflections in my room, despite achieving a high screen gain with wide-viewing angle, practically at 180 degrees.

Anyhow, focusing now on the audio side - I need an atmos receiver.
I think I'm giving up. Too bad, it's a really nice screen.
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post #16569 of 16830 Old 05-15-2017, 03:50 PM
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I think I'm giving up. Too bad, it's a really nice screen.
Just thought of something. Not sure if he'll have a booth at Cedia but, if ever, I can drop by. I plan to attend this year since it'll be held in San Diego. my son goes off to college there as welll

Looking forward to laser projectors, particularly this new Sony VW1100 replacement; not that I can afford but new specs and pricing will always be interesting.
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post #16570 of 16830 Old 05-15-2017, 04:47 PM
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I have 5 projectors and still use the LG every day for TV. The main problem with these .47 DLP's is the native contrast is even further away from HT use than their .65 counterparts. If you measure the contrast on the XGIMI you'll see it's going to be the same or very close to the PF1500. Fine for TV and some general movie use but these are not in the same league as the typical projectors discussed in this thread (.95 DLP Planar/Runco, Epson LCD, Sony SXRD, JVC LCOS)

The fizzle part I mentioned is that Runco/Planar was a leader with LED in the HT on the .95 DLP models and they couldn't exceed the light output once they hit a ceiling on the LED's. Then went out of business. Optoma tried LED with the .65 HD91 and that was a complete bomb with low light output and a terrible LED dimming 'DI'.

These .47 DLP's are stuck as well. Very good for their intended purpose and the PF1500 puts out a solid 700 lumens @ D65 which is impressive for a projector smaller than a shoe box. I think we were expecting great things from the LED technology and it never quite made it there. (1500+ lumens @ D65 would have been a good goal).
Firstly, I'm sorry but I disagree in you thinking that the PF1500 is a better projector than the XGIMI. It's actually not close:





There are so many variables to separate one projector from another, even if they use the same DMD chipset, do you agree with this? I'm also not saying that the .47 DLPs are even on par with the .65 DLPs as they operate on totally different applications at a totally different price range, but the price point of .47 DLPs for a larger market audience makes it possible to develop the technology more aggressively than the far more expensive and physically larger .95 and .65 DLPs, which as you stated has failed.

Before seeing and getting the XGIMI I would have agreed with all of your points about the LG. I didn't think the LG had enough specs to get off to a good start to compete with the competition at the time, which was why I was going to settle for an Epson which the 2045/5350 is well received here in Japan. But the XGIMI is a different projector even if it does share the same .47 DLP as the LG (just like some cars sharing the exact same LS1 engine they don't all have the same performance). Specs aside, the H1 has looked brighter and better than the LG in every comparison I've seen. The LG also has overrated lumens rating while the XGIMI has been underrated as tests have confirmed.

And who here is going to believe LG's ridiculous contrast levels of 150000:1?

Recently I went to see the LG for myself and can confirm that the XGIMI is brighter and colors pop more. I can only say that the XGIMI with its support for DCI-P3 and being a newer projector the H1 was optimised better than the LG. The image has to pass through at least 6 different components before it even reaches the DMD chip. Like I said, there are enough variables to separate one .47 DLP projector from another.

I'm not saying that the H1 (or any other LED projectors in its category) is on par with any of the $3000+ projectors listed in this segment (it is not a $3000 projector afterall), but the notion that LED is dead is unfounded. XGIMI has improved the H1's luminosity from 900 (H1), 1000 (H1 Aurora) and now 1100 lumens (H1S). There is no reason to doubt that the journey for LED has ended considering that TVs themselves have moved from strength to strength from LCD to LCD/LED hybrid and now OLED.

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post #16571 of 16830 Old 05-15-2017, 05:33 PM
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Firstly, I'm sorry but I disagree in you thinking that the PF1500 is a better projector than the XGIMI. It's actually not close:





There are so many variables to separate one projector from another, even if they use the same DMD chipset, do you agree with this? I'm also not saying that the .47 DLPs are even on par with the .65 DLPs as they operate on totally different applications at a totally different price range, but the price point of .47 DLPs for a larger market audience makes it possible to develop the technology more aggressively than the far more expensive and physically larger .95 and .65 DLPs, which as you stated has failed.

Before seeing and getting the XGIMI I would have agreed with all of your points about the LG. I didn't think the LG had enough specs to get off to a good start to compete with the competition at the time, which was why I was going to settle for an Epson which the 2045/5350 is well received here in Japan. But the XGIMI is a different projector even if it does share the same .47 DLP as the LG (just like some cars sharing the exact same LS1 engine they don't all have the same performance). Specs aside, the H1 has looked brighter and better than the LG in every comparison I've seen. The LG also has overrated lumens rating while the XGIMI has been underrated as tests have confirmed.

And who here is going to believe LG's ridiculous contrast levels of 150000:1?

Recently I went to see the LG for myself and can confirm that the XGIMI is brighter and colors pop more. I can only say that the XGIMI with its support for DCI-P3 and being a newer projector the H1 was optimised better than the LG. The image has to pass through at least 6 different components before it even reaches the DMD chip. Like I said, there are enough variables to separate one .47 DLP projector from another.

I'm not saying that the H1 (or any other LED projectors in its category) is on par with any of the $3000+ projectors listed in this segment (it is not a $3000 projector afterall), but the notion that LED is dead is unfounded. XGIMI has improved the H1's luminosity from 900 (H1), 1000 (H1 Aurora) and now 1100 lumens (H1S). There is no reason to doubt that the journey for LED has ended considering that TVs themselves have moved from strength to strength from LCD to LCD/LED hybrid and now OLED.
No matter how you put it, both the PF1500 and H1 are toy projectors when you compare them to high end single chip DLP projectors, 3 chip DLP projectors and the current offerings from both Sony and JVC in the mid to high price point markets. I've seen enough relatively cheap projectors to know that I'd much prefer a 55" OLED to any of the sub $2000 projectors out there currently. The picture quality just isn't satisfying for me, even though you can get a massive image. Thankfully there are projectors that offer much better image quality. Unlike TVs, the whole "trickle down" in image quality that is usually associated with CE products in general hasn't really with 1080p projectors. Those initial batch of 1080p single chip DLP projectors, such as the Sharp XV-Z20000, Marantz VP-15S1, Planar PD8150, and Infocus IN82 have not been surpassed in overall image quality by anything in the sub $2000 market place over the past decade. It's sad but true.

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post #16572 of 16830 Old 05-15-2017, 05:46 PM
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No matter how you put it, both the PF1500 and H1 are toy projectors when you compare them to high end single chip DLP projectors, 3 chip DLP projectors and the current offerings from both Sony and JVC in the mid to high price point markets. I've seen enough relatively cheap projectors to know that I'd much prefer a 55" OLED to any of the sub $2000 projectors out there currently.
The LG is, but the H1 is a bit more multi-functional which puts it into the "useful toy" category

I agree that absolutely none of the projectors that I've seen from $500 to $15000 can ever exceed TVs (I live in Japan so I've seen some pretty expensive projectors and TVs), and I'm afraid they never will. It's simply fact that degradation occurs when light needs to be projected over distance, and projectors are by nature reliant on light projection.

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post #16573 of 16830 Old 05-15-2017, 06:18 PM
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I never even heard of the XGIMI H1 before.
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post #16574 of 16830 Old 05-15-2017, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
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wow that is some interesting back and forth about this projector.. the members are screaming for a pro review

New 1080p Pico - XGIMI H1


Is there any objective info on this projector? How many lumens @ D65 Greyscale?

What is the native contrast?



This member has both and provides some additional info on both models.


I have both the LG PF1500 and the XGIMI HI projector, I been putting both these projectors to the test using different screens and different environments.

To be honest, once both projectors are calibrated to your liking, there really is not that much of a difference in picture quality between the two, it is all depending on the environment. So all these sample images you see here showing the PF1500 worse than the XGIMI. Is just not right in my opinion, particularly if you have your own light controlled environment.

There is no doubt the XGIMI HI is brighter than the LG PF1500. That is obvious.

I am testing both projectors in varying different environments from a dedicated light controlled home theatre to my own lounge room and anywhere from a normal house wall painted in a off white color, a Elite 110 inch screen a Chinese no name brand 120 inch fixed screen and a 130 inch slightly silver high gain painted gyprock wall, as I have in my lounge room.

In a dark environment I can get both projectors to look very similar,
in a brighter environment the XGIMI has the edge because it's brighter.

LG has more controls to adjust the colours and brightness than what the XGIMI has.

I have block out curtains in my lounge room, my home is a open plan with dinning kitchen and lounge all in one. The window over the kitchen is letting in some light the two large sliding doors I have installed 100% block out curtains, I can get my home fairly dark during the day, both projectors can produce a 130 inch image on my painted projector screen. The LG I have to set at its max brightness mode during the day to get a acceptable image, the XGIMI I set custom to a luminance of 4 and leave all other settings at there default and I get a bright screen.

Which one do I prefer at this stage out of the two, the XGIMI HI is my preference, the colours really pop and I don't have to set the led bulb at maximum as I do with the LG during the day, which should give a lot longer bulb life.
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post #16575 of 16830 Old 05-15-2017, 06:59 PM
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Aaagh. All ready to watch a 3D movie tonight and, as usual, the glasses are dead. Have to charge them. It seems I have to charge the damn things for every single movie.
I thought they would have some sort of battery saving feature that turned them off when not in use.
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post #16576 of 16830 Old 05-15-2017, 07:32 PM
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This maybe be screaming for a Zombie review
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post #16577 of 16830 Old 05-15-2017, 08:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Aaagh. All ready to watch a 3D movie tonight and, as usual, the glasses are dead. Have to charge them. It seems I have to charge the damn things for every single movie.
I thought they would have some sort of battery saving feature that turned them off when not in use.
What was the 3D movie?

I have 2 of these hooked up and keep the glasses on charge most of the time. especially my Sharp 3D glasses. they are getting harder to find today and need to keep the batteries in those charged.

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post #16578 of 16830 Old 05-15-2017, 11:30 PM
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I never even heard of the XGIMI H1 before.
It's a new entry projector company (a proper one) and was one of the few indiegogo success stories having made over a million dollars from their H1 campaign. I think it is a company to watch.

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wow that is some interesting back and forth about this projector.. the members are screaming for a pro review

Is there any objective info on this projector? How many lumens @ D65 Greyscale?
What is the native contrast?
Try these links (in Chinese though but enough pictures to get an idea):
https://kknews.cc/zh-hk/digital/6okq8p.html
https://kknews.cc/digital/azvkg.html

Indeed there was a lot of back and forth. I had no stake in the debacle until the entire group of them (including said "pro" reviewer) decided to s*** on it and decided nobody else unknown to them was allowed to have any credibility but themselves. I created a proper thread, posted more pictures and videos than any other projector on this entire forum and guess what...complete silence from those same people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k
This member has both and provides some additional info on both models.
Three other members on other forums have posted their comparisons with the LG, as well as another who had both Benq HT2050 and H1 and said they were close. The added benefits of being an LED projector of course are as you know - no bulb replacements, lower power consumption, smaller, quieter etc. The H1 goes a few steps further by running a complete Android system and built-in Harman/Kardon stereo speakers as well as a bunch of other very cool things.

Sorry to take away from the thread a little. I saw an $8000 JVC DLA-X770R the other day and it was very impressive and easily the best projector I saw there (the others were VPL-VW500ES, DLA-X570R, VPL-HW60 and a few Epsons). Unfortunately on the day the Sonys were not quite right for some reason.

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post #16579 of 16830 Old 05-16-2017, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rocklee View Post

Try these links (in Chinese though but enough pictures to get an idea):
https://kknews.cc/zh-hk/digital/6okq8p.html
https://kknews.cc/digital/azvkg.html

Indeed there was a lot of back and forth. I had no stake in the debacle until the entire group of them (including said "pro" reviewer) decided to s*** on it and decided nobody else unknown to them was allowed to have any credibility but themselves. I created a proper thread, posted more pictures and videos than any other projector on this entire forum and guess what...complete silence from those same people.

the issue they have (and most here will have) is that photos and videos can't properly represent what we see in person and are no substitute for basic, objective measurements. On the chinese site above, the LG looks like it was configured to look terrible in comparison. What is their testing method? neither projector appears calibrated in those tests.

If you want to help promote this product to others, perhaps consider picking up an inexpensive light meter and a colorimeter. With any projector, most here are going to want to know 3 basics things. D65 lumens (accurate greyscale) , color gamut accuracy and native contrast. This basic info is worth a ton in comparison to all the photos in the world of this projector.

1 owner mentioned measuring less than 400:1 native contrast. That's less than half the PF1500 which might make sense knowing the H1 is brighter, maybe overdriving the LED's for the extra 200-300 lumens.


They could gain a potentially large audience if they send one in for a proper review.
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post #16580 of 16830 Old 05-19-2017, 07:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Panasonic UB900 May 2017 firmware update

Panasonic released another firmware update, the Amazon HDR supports works in the US as well.

http://av.jpn.support.panasonic.com/...b900_euro.html



the Panasonic UB900 has been a great experience over the last year, they keep coming up with solid updates.

Anyone with this player, I recommend looking at the sharpening tools, especially the Luma (mid-frequency setting). +2 does a great job of adding just a hint of extra sharpness without any obvious artifacts. This looks excellent with UHD and 3D BD content.

curious to go take a look at the luminance/color adjustment setting for UHD.
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post #16581 of 16830 Old 05-19-2017, 09:08 AM
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Panasonic released another firmware update, the Amazon HDR supports works in the US as well.
Sweet, means I can disconnect my Samsung finally.
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post #16582 of 16830 Old 05-19-2017, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I have 5 projectors and still use the LG every day for TV. The main problem with these .47 DLP's is the native contrast is even further away from HT use than their .65 counterparts. If you measure the contrast on the XGIMI you'll see it's going to be the same or very close to the PF1500. Fine for TV and some general movie use but these are not in the same league as the typical projectors discussed in this thread (.95 DLP Planar/Runco, Epson LCD, Sony SXRD, JVC LCOS)

The fizzle part I mentioned is that Runco/Planar was a leader with LED in the HT on the .95 DLP models and they couldn't exceed the light output once they hit a ceiling on the LED's. Then went out of business. Optoma tried LED with the .65 HD91 and that was a complete bomb with low light output and a terrible LED dimming 'DI'.
I think reason Runco and others fizzled with LED HT is that their LED source was dependent on Phatlight PT120, and Phatlight was bought out and new parent company discontinued development of further HT products. Thus Runco stuck with 800 lumens tops for a long time.

We may see a comeback of LED in the DLP 4K XPR projectors, as the Philips ColorSpark LEDs are putting up a strong showing (~1500 lumens instead of 800) even in first gen. Plus, while currently only available under 10k in 0.67" flavor, the Barco Loki laser projector uses an 0.95" 4k XPR DMD. Wouldn't be surprised to see Vivitek announce something in late 2018 using 0.95" DMD and ColorSpark LED to replace the H9090.
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post #16583 of 16830 Old 05-19-2017, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
I think reason Runco and others fizzled with LED HT is that their LED source was dependent on Phatlight PT120, and Phatlight was bought out and new parent company discontinued development of further HT products. Thus Runco stuck with 800 lumens tops for a long time.

We may see a comeback of LED in the DLP 4K XPR projectors, as the Philips ColorSpark LEDs are putting up a strong showing (~1500 lumens instead of 800) even in first gen. Plus, while currently only available under 10k in 0.67" flavor, the Barco Loki laser projector uses an 0.95" 4k XPR DMD. Wouldn't be surprised to see Vivitek announce something in late 2018 using 0.95" DMD and ColorSpark LED to replace the H9090.
I have noticed one issue with the ColorSpark LED units discussed and demo'ed so far. By comparison to the Phlatlight/RAPCUR LEDs and controller, the ColorSpark LEDs do not seem to do sequential color as fast. This is an issue and will show as an artifact on screen like color wheels do, ie RBE. It's already been discussed from people who've demoed the BenQ unit using these LEDs and controller. They need to at least match the RAPCUR module if it wants to plant single chip DLP driven by LEDs firmly in the 2017 and onward $3000+ home theater projector market. This is especially so when we're seeing the norm for HDR capable projectors having 1500+ D65 lumens. RBE shows itself far more when we bump up the brightness. This cannot happen if it wants to be a serious contender for premium home theater use.

The LG PF1500, which was using Osram LEDs and an LG in-house control board, showed more RBE than the Planar DP8150/Runco LS-5. This is disturbing considering the Planar/Runco uses a simple 6 segment RGBRGB, 6x color wheel. I hope this does not continue to be the trend as we see more LED based DLP units released.

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post #16584 of 16830 Old 05-19-2017, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
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What LED's were the Optoma HD91 and Nero 20th using?

RBE was quite visible on both units vs. the Planar.

I'm wondering how much actual custom work vs. OEM was done for the the Nero 4. These seem like a far cry from the Lumis days. If the 25-30K price is real, they may have lost their minds. Who is going to pay that for single chip DLP with manual lens controls, no 3D, no WCG, etc.
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post #16585 of 16830 Old 05-19-2017, 01:13 PM
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What was the 3D movie?

I have 2 of these hooked up and keep the glasses on charge most of the time. especially my Sharp 3D glasses. they are getting harder to find today and need to keep the batteries in those charged.

Sorry, didn't get back to this yet.

The 3D movie was Prometheus. I wanted my son to see it before we went to Alien Covenant next week. We watched Prometheus last night. If I ever want to be reminded of why 3D can be so great, Prometheus always answers that question. It's just incredibly natural, and relevant, 3D and adds so much to the viewing. And thank goodness for the added lumens of the RS6000 over my last projector, makes all the difference for 3D. Now I can have big image (116" wide last night) on my 1.3 gain screen, nice and bright.

I should probably keep the glasses charging as you do, but shouldn't they hold a charge over time if not used?

Also: I note your recommendation for checking out the sharpness control on the Panny UHD. For regular blu-ray, do you suggest using this feature with the Panny sending 1080p or do you upscale 1080p to UHD on your projector? Thanks.
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post #16586 of 16830 Old 05-19-2017, 01:35 PM
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Panasonic released another firmware update, the Amazon HDR supports works in the US as well.

http://av.jpn.support.panasonic.com/...b900_euro.html



the Panasonic UB900 has been a great experience over the last year, they keep coming up with solid updates.

Anyone with this player, I recommend looking at the sharpening tools, especially the Luma (mid-frequency setting). +2 does a great job of adding just a hint of extra sharpness without any obvious artifacts. This looks excellent with UHD and 3D BD content.

curious to go take a look at the luminance/color adjustment setting for UHD.
Jason, can you tell me if the Panasonic supports output of the original frame rate when streaming? I.e. 24Hz? Or if it has vertical stretch for Anamorphic Lens support?
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post #16587 of 16830 Old 05-19-2017, 05:00 PM
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Jason, can you tell me if the Panasonic supports output of the original frame rate when streaming? I.e. 24Hz? Or if it has vertical stretch for Anamorphic Lens support?
No unfortunately.

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post #16588 of 16830 Old 05-19-2017, 07:47 PM
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No unfortunately.
The player itself can do a custom out rate like the Oppo, correct?

How does it accomplish this, 3:2 pull down or something?
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post #16589 of 16830 Old 05-19-2017, 08:46 PM
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the issue they have (and most here will have) is that photos and videos can't properly represent what we see in person and are no substitute for basic, objective measurements.
I'm yet again wondering if this is worth going into discussion, but anyway...

The reason why some people would say that is because their cameras make some projectors look worst than they do in person. Digital cameras are trying to capture "lossy" light that has degenerated in brightness, quality and accuracy since leaving the projector several feet away to a screen that degenerated it again and eventually the light gets represented as the "image". There's just not enough for a regular camera to pick up the images as accurately as the human eye can. Which is why the camera has to be callibrated in order to capture as close to what the eye can see.

Fortunately some cameras+sensors+lenses do the job better than others and they CAN come pretty close. There are some reviewers who do take the time to produce visual results of projectors either in standalone tests and in comparisons. The point is that having some visual cues is always better than seeing nothing at all, and certainly better than blindly taking someone's word for it.

Secondly, one can still make relevant comparisons regardless of the camera as long as the projectors are subjected to the EXACT SAME TEST CONDITIONS and in the same shots. We can see which projector was brighter, which one had more "pop" in color, which one looked more detailed than the other etc.

Thirdly, any seasoned enthusiasts know that figures published by manufacturers (of any products) tend to be highly optimistic because of the kind of tests they do to produce the most favorable results. We see this with cars exaggerating MPG figures, and we've seen projectors like the LG that projects no where near the lumens it claims (I would be surprised if you weren't aware of this). It may be possible that LG exaggerated their lumens the same way they exaggerated their contrast levels. Yet so many people are still sticking to the manufacturer's claim to dispute the fact that the H1 could not possibly be brighter or better. That's the conclusion of armchair experts who only read stuff off the surface, take someone else's opinions and sprout off their "expert" opinions as if they were facts without validating anything or understanding anything about how tests were conducted. They're the same people who thinks that the Sony VPL-VW500ES with only 1700 lumens is worst than a Benq HT2050 with 2200 lumens

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On the chinese site above, the LG looks like it was configured to look terrible in comparison.

What is their testing method? neither projector appears calibrated in those tests.
That was my initial reaction too, but then I thought, why would anyone do that? It looks like someone brought two projectors together and took pictures. If that person tried to discredit the LG by reducing its brightness for the sake of making the H1 look better then he/she will have no credibility the next time they try to post another review.

Why would anyone want to risk that? While not quite the scientific test that some people may be looking for, both projectors were tested under the exact same conditions which can still provide some useful data.

Here's a different test:


Here's yet another video comparing the H1 with another LG (PF1000u):



Again, the H1 is still brighter and looks better, even though the LG still has "more" lumens and "higher" contrast levels.

I cannot elaborate these evidence enough. You even quoted the person who said that the H1 was brighter than the PF1500. I could bring my H1 to the same shop that has the LG and do a comparison to put the final nail in the coffin, but there is enough evidence to save me the trip (UPDATE: Actually I might do this if I get down there again). We all need to remind ourselves that the LG is already a 2 year old projector and progress in technology has been made since then. I do think it's still a good projector that is available in most places for fans of LG or people who want an LED projector. Prices have dropped dramatically enough for it to become affordable for first time projector owners, which is always a win for those on a budget.

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If you want to help promote this product to others, perhaps consider picking up an inexpensive light meter and a colorimeter. With any projector, most here are going to want to know 3 basics things. D65 lumens (accurate greyscale) , color gamut accuracy and native contrast. This basic info is worth a ton in comparison to all the photos in the world of this projector.
Do all end-users have to do this? I would be far more concerned with these things if my projector was $2000 and I want to prove a point in a meaningless numbers game for a pissing contest on who has the best projector *rolleyes*. It's just easier to post pictures/videos and run a basic eye test just like anybody else would. I'm no more a promoter of this product than anybody else who promote their projectors for years and still going. If those people can post anything close to a photo evidence/s or video samples or prove that RBE/color wheel issues/fan issues/etc don't exist, or reviewers can actually support all their reviews with evidence then perhaps I would be more encouraged to take time out from my schedule to go buy all these things. But for now these guys have not proven anything so doing anything further isn't worth my time.

Quote:
1 owner mentioned measuring less than 400:1 native contrast. That's less than half the PF1500 which might make sense knowing the H1 is brighter, maybe overdriving the LED's for the extra 200-300 lumens.
This is interesting because one would have to read through a lot of pages to look for the only thing that matters to them to get one of the many inaccurate information posted by those posters designed to slander the H1, and all the while trying not to bring up all the issues with the LG.

If it's the same person I'm thinking of, then it's easy. He was trolling and had some seriously deranged agenda going on while trying to claim every problems and issues a projector could possibly have under the sun about "his" H1 (he was trying to get his money back after buying it out of a whim so he claimed). You only have to use logic to easily dispute his claims. If the LG and the H1 both share the same DMD chip then why would their native contrast levels vary so dramatically given the nature of technology improving over time and that the H1 is newer and better? Secondly why would anyone consider tests lke these to be accurate?

"There is no standard as to how to measure contrast ratio. In other words, a TV manufacturer could measure the maximum light output of 1 pixel driven at some normally unobtainable maximum, then measure that same pixel with no signal going to it at all. This hardly represents what you'd see at home, but without a standard, such trivialities don't matter to TV manufacturers.

Worse, contrast ratio numbers have gotten so extreme, there is literally no way to measure some of them. What happens more often than not is the marketing department will come up with the number it needs to sell the product.

The engineers will shuffle their feet, and stare at the wall, and magically the TV has that contrast ratio."

The same can be said about projectors, which has no where near the market TV has but they have to do anything to sell in order to compete. The trolls who post those inaccurate information or claimed to be unbiased but are being negativity anyway are gone. They don't matter anymore.

Look, numbers are fun for fanboys to read and create some agendas out of them. The rest of us just want the best product we can buy to provide the services we need. Some people expect the standards to be met (and most projectors do meet those standards), while other people expect much more (and they pay for those expections). Everyone has different requirements and nobody is wrong as long as its their money spent and they're happy with their choice. If I didn't have the H1 today and I had to choose between the LG and H1, how would you convince me that the LG would be better? I have read all 103 pages on the LG thread so it would be tough. I don't blame you if you can't. The LG is due for an upgrade and it has one. I'll be willing to listen to whoever can highlight the advantages that the PF1500W has over the H1.

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They could gain a potentially large audience if they send one in for a proper review.
I think they already have, but being a small company they aren't going to have the kind of coverage that a larger and richer company would have so I think its going to take time. Their indiegogo campaign was pretty successful though, so we can only expect good things to come. The more competition the better.

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post #16590 of 16830 Old 05-19-2017, 09:19 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm yet again wondering if this is worth going into discussion, but anyway...

probably not. most on this site will expect those 3 basic measurements not videos as an only source of comparing projectors. especially from a off-brand company. This is where a good review could help them with a whole new audience. This thread alone has nearly a million views.



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There is no standard as to how to measure contrast ratio.

With projectors there most certainly is with native contrast and it's quite simple. a cheap meter works especially with contrast this poor on these .47 DLP's.

if your case of a basic room with a no light treatment these inexpensive LED projectors are fine for general use. And color accuracy doesn't matter, turn up that saturation to 11.

keep cheer leading that projector with no objective info, it makes perfect sense.
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