Projector Mini-Shootout Thread - Page 556 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #16651 of 16662 Unread Today, 07:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
Yep that is largely due to the 48hz per eye refresh on the JVC, flicker will be visible. Epson 60hz per eye is same refresh as most DLP (though a few DLP do 72hz). But Epson crosstalk nowhere near as good as DLP.

My room mounting two projectors is tough for a number of reasons.
yes it's a trade off, I thought the x-talk on the LS10K I calibrated was excessive and bothered me more than the mild flicker on the JVC. The flicker is there on the 15K 4K Sony's as well. Also the JVC and Sony are a good bit brighter in 3D so that is another strike for 3D on the Epson Laser.

I use the JVC for darker 3D movies (Underworld Blood Wars looks amazing in a way that simply doesn't work on DLP) and my Sharp 30K for bright 3D content, animations, etc. This 3D projector is better in every way vs my previous BenQ W7000 and love the 3D on it. Plus the Sharp G20 glasses are bar-none the best 3D glasses I've used.

I don't see any 1 model that excels in all areas of 2D / 3D / UHD so the multi-projector setup works great depending on what i'm watching.
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post #16652 of 16662 Unread Today, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
yes it's a trade off, I thought the x-talk on the LS10K I calibrated was excessive and bothered me more than the mild flicker on the JVC. The flicker is there on the 15K 4K Sony's as well. Also the JVC and Sony are a good bit brighter in 3D so that is another strike for 3D on the Epson Laser.

I use the JVC for darker 3D movies (Underworld Blood Wars looks amazing in a way that simply doesn't work on DLP) and my Sharp 30K for bright 3D content, animations, etc. This 3D projector is better in every way vs my previous BenQ W7000 and love the 3D on it. Plus the Sharp G20 glasses are bar-none the best 3D glasses I've used.

I don't see any 1 model that excels in all areas of 2D / 3D / UHD so the multi-projector setup works great depending on what i'm watching.
I like the Sharp but it's out of production and they aren't even repairing it anymore. Don't think that OEM lamps from sharp are available either and I don't want to chance an exploding or poor quality lamp.

So w7000 continues to satisfy for 3d for me and BenQ continues to support it.

But 2 projectors in my room is tough due to low ceiling and riser.

So when I upgrade next year going to figure out best tradeoff I guess :/ one of the main reasons I keep putting off upgrade.
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post #16653 of 16662 Unread Today, 07:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AndreNewman View Post
Thanks for the screenshots, finally something where a screen shot is actually meaningful!

I'm taking some of my own media but I don't have any 3D calibration patterns beyond what's on the spears & munsil disk so yes please to a link, iso, mkv is fine, I have bluray media and a burner, Ricky is the UK dealer for Zappity so I expect he can play iso and mkv... I may just put a drive in my Mede8er and take that too.
yes the L/R screens are actually useful since it's show how the projector handles dark on light x-talk. This is the achilles heal for most non-DLP's but JVC somehow in 2016 figured out a way to reduce it to almost non-existence even in tough content like Happy Feet which is a 3D torture test. I was surprised at the epson laser in this area.

I just sent you a link with a download to the L/R patterns, it's a 3D BD ISO. It will play fine on the Mede8ter.

now that 3D is dead on the next gen DLP's we should be thankful to JVC/Epson/Sony for continuing to support it. I can't stop watching SwordMaster 3D, amazing 3D demo material and beautifully filmed movie. High recommended import title for fans of Crouching Tiger genre.
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post #16654 of 16662 Unread Today, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
Is that true if you feed the Epson 24p? I think the JVC does 60Hz per eye if you feed it 60p.
JVC maxes out at 48khz per eye per my understanding. Epson uses 3:2 frame sequencing on 24p to make 60hz.

Best of course is DLP 72hz with triple flash. No flicker and also no pull down artifacts.
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post #16655 of 16662 Unread Today, 07:50 AM
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The one big rub for me with trying out the Sharp and replacing my 7000 is no FI in 3d which I just remembered. Always some sort of compromise it seems no matter which way you go.

JVC CMD Vertical Banding: Affects all currently shipping lamp based JVC Projectors
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...rojectors.html
PLEASE CALL JVC AND REPORT THE CMD BANDING IF THIS BOTHERS YOU
1-800-252-5722
Choose option 1, then 4 and have your serial# ready (located on back of unit or box).
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post #16656 of 16662 Unread Today, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
I like the Sharp but it's out of production and they aren't even repairing it anymore. Don't think that OEM lamps from sharp are available either and I don't want to chance an exploding or poor quality lamp.

So w7000 continues to satisfy for 3d for me and BenQ continues to support it.

But 2 projectors in my room is tough due to low ceiling and riser.

So when I upgrade next year going to figure out best tradeoff I guess :/ one of the main reasons I keep putting off upgrade.
Which 3d glasses do you use on your 7000? I need to try a different pair to see if they hold sync better vs the ones I have.

JVC CMD Vertical Banding: Affects all currently shipping lamp based JVC Projectors
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...rojectors.html
PLEASE CALL JVC AND REPORT THE CMD BANDING IF THIS BOTHERS YOU
1-800-252-5722
Choose option 1, then 4 and have your serial# ready (located on back of unit or box).
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post #16657 of 16662 Unread Today, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
JVC maxes out at 48khz per eye per my understanding. Epson uses 3:2 frame sequencing on 24p to make 60hz.

Best of course is DLP 72hz with triple flash. No flicker and also no pull down artifacts.
Yeek!

Despite a lot of reading around I didn't know that, I hate 3:2 pulldown, it drives me nuts. I'm pretty used to DLP triple flash, 24p artefacts in 3D are bad enough if there's 3:2 pulldown on top that's not going to be pretty.

I should be able to cope with 48Hz per eye, maybe.

Well from the 3D standpoint tomorrow may not be an expensive day after all.
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post #16658 of 16662 Unread Today, 08:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post
The one big rub for me with trying out the Sharp and replacing my 7000 is no FI in 3d which I just remembered. Always some sort of compromise it seems no matter which way you go.
the 3D is nice and smooth on the Sharp, it almost looks like some kind of FI processing. I did used to run FI on the BQ and compared content when I had them both. The big stand-out is the perceived contrast in 3D (IR vs DLP Link), native is higher to begin with and don't see RBE in 3D on the Sharp but used to catch it on the BenQ.

it's a shame Sharp left the market. I don't have much confidence we will see 3D in the faux 4K DLP models which is a major bummer for 3D fans. Plus that business class native hurts no matter how sharp they are. I hope they make progress in this area and find a way to get 3D working.
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post #16659 of 16662 Unread Today, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
the 3D is nice and smooth on the Sharp, it almost looks like some kind of FI processing. I did used to run FI on the BQ and compared content when I had them both. The big stand-out is the perceived contrast in 3D (IR vs DLP Link), native is higher to begin with and don't see RBE in 3D on the Sharp but used to catch it on the BenQ.

it's a shame Sharp left the market. I don't have much confidence we will see 3D in the faux 4K DLP models which is a major bummer for 3D fans. Plus that business class native hurts no matter how sharp they are. I hope they make progress in this area and find a way to get 3D working.
Sounds good. I will stick to the plan and track down a Sharp at some point. Hopefully the glasses you like so much for the 30k are still available for purchase?

JVC CMD Vertical Banding: Affects all currently shipping lamp based JVC Projectors
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...rojectors.html
PLEASE CALL JVC AND REPORT THE CMD BANDING IF THIS BOTHERS YOU
1-800-252-5722
Choose option 1, then 4 and have your serial# ready (located on back of unit or box).
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post #16660 of 16662 Unread Today, 07:47 PM
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Which 3d glasses do you use on your 7000? I need to try a different pair to see if they hold sync better vs the ones I have.
Optoma ZD201 very happy with them.
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post #16661 of 16662 Unread Today, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I don't have much confidence we will see 3D in the faux 4K DLP models which is a major bummer for 3D fans. Plus that business class native hurts no matter how sharp they are. I hope they make progress in this area and find a way to get 3D working.
3D is available on more expensive (over 20k) 4k XPR DLP projectors. 3D works fine with XPR but it is a significant cost (for processing power, ports, etc) while the cheaper Pj manufs are trying to get costs as low as possible.

Only progress that needs to be made is convincing one of the cheaper brands that people will still actually pay more for 3D I can see why it makes more sense for lower price manufs to primarily compete on who can get the cheapest, best looking 4K + HDR projector when 3D has been dropped from virtually all flatpanel TVs this year. HDR already seems to be much more popular than 3D ever was, unfortunately. Likely due to LCD TVs sucking at 3D and manufs gouging on glasses price.

When Vivitek refreshes its "CEDIA" line down the road with XPR I bet we'll see a 3D XPR projector, though.

Also note for DLP - if you meant "faux 4k" as a knock - 4k XPR with its 8M pixels makes exponentially more engineering sense than native 4k with 8M pixels. Native 4k DMDs have been out for some time (such as the 1.38" DMD in some of the DPI pjs) but given the same DMD size they take a massive nosedive in native contrast compared to an XPR chip. Given 4k XPR DLP does have 8M pixels like native 4k (even though they overlap and thus aren't quite as precise), the final output is so close it doesn't make any sense to pillage native contrast just to check a box on a spec sheet that it is "native 4k". This is a different story than Epson/JVC who have half the pixel density of native 4k (4M pixels) after shift and are more deserving of the "faux 4k" label since it is not even close to the amount of pixels a native 4K pj puts out.

So long as the basic physics and design of DMDs don't radically change, given everything being the same (other than native resolution) an XPR DMD will always greatly exceed a native 4k DMD in contrast - where most would agree DLP has the least room to be taking hits on. And thus XPR will always be the best choice for 4K DLP unless contrast is not a priority for the application.

4k XPR 0.95" (native 2560x1600) DC4 DMD is where the real potential for overall best home theater 4K DLP lies given current DMD design. Only one model I know of actually uses this currently, but at least its in production...

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post #16662 of 16662 Unread Today, 10:18 PM - Thread Starter
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In the BQ thread someone mentioned 3D on the Nero 4.

I read through the entire Nero 4 manual, there is no mention of 3D anywhere and no 3 Pin VESA port for a transmitter.

http://sim2-extranet.com/files/downl...ide-EN_1-5.pdf

so no 3D for 30k on this specific model. We also only get R709 which it mentions 1/2 dozen times in the manual but no discussion of P3/BT2020 for UHD content. There are HDR gamma adjustments but P3/BT2020 is a major feature of UHD HDR content that needs to be there if someone is spending $30000 on a single chip projector. Imagine seeing RBE at this price point?

I'm glad to watch this progress from a distance but can't see investing in any of the faux 4K projectors until they mature in a few years. WCG support has to be there, 3D would be better.
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