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post #16831 of 16847 Old Today, 01:24 PM
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Got my UHD65 today. Looking forward to powering it up and checking it out in the next couple of hours!

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post #16832 of 16847 Old Today, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
Got my UHD65 today. Looking forward to powering it up and checking it out in the next couple of hours!
Native contrast first please!!!! thanks!

I thought you were in Vegas??
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post #16833 of 16847 Old Today, 02:00 PM
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Native contrast first please!!!! thanks!

I thought you were in Vegas??
I got back yesterday (gone for 7 days) and this showed up at work today! Perfect timing.
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post #16834 of 16847 Old Today, 08:12 PM
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Here's some first impressions and a few quick measurements:


I'm pleasantly surprised with the Optoma UHD65 so far. The one aspect I'd say that I wanted to see most on this unit was how well XPR (e-shift) performs. Now, while there are some slight oddities with single pixel test patterns (I took a quick look at the R.Masciola UHD test patterns), in practice it looks exceedingly similar to that of a good single chip .65" DLP projector in terms of pixel sharpness. Text looks how it should and about as good as I've seen it look with Sony's native 4K projectors. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you didn't know this was an eshift unit, you'd actually think this projector had a native 4K image (until you looked close with some test patterns). That was a surprise. I was expecting text to look a bit more wonky, like how JVC's eshift units look, but it doesn't. I use an HTPC most of the time to feed video to my projectors and from my seated position text sure as hell looks like it's coming from a native 4K projector. The lens used in this projector is "good" for it's price, but it can't delineate pixels anywhere near as well as the better .95" DLP 1080p projectors, but again, it's hard to see that slight sharpness deficit from the seat, plus you gain literally 4 times the amount of pixels on screen, so there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that this projector will look considerably sharper than the best high end single (and 3-chip) 1080p DLP projectors out there if you were to compare a good quality 4K source on this projector versus the 1080p version of that same film on those 1080p projectors.

Here comes the contrast numbers. It will come to no surprise to many of you to hear that it isn't as good as most of the .95" DC3 and DC4 1080p projectors that came out about a decade ago. This is a shame but a lot of this comes down to physics. The size of the mirrors on these DLP DMDs make a big difference to contrast potential. The mirrors on those DC3/DC4 1080p DMP DMDs were simply a lot larger so they had the potential for more contrast than the mirrors found on this .67" DMD. At max zoom on the lens (so worst case scenario for on/off contrast) and in high lamp mode, I'm measuring 1456:1 native contrast and with the lamp dimming based "Dynamic Black" engaged we do see a considerable jump in contrast to a decent 5394:1 dynamic contrast. That's a nice ~3.5x increase in contrast performance. I should also note that Dynamic Black engaged hasn't really given me too many issues in it's "visibility". You can definitely leave this engaged without it being bothersome. That's a nice plus I also wasn't expecting. But I also haven't spent enough time with this unit to say how well it enhances contrast with actual content. What I mean is, I haven't spent enough time to see if there's a decent increase in contrast when real content is being displayed and if most of this ~3.5x increase is only for when a 100% all black image is on screen. Contrast performance is subjectively a lot better than I thought it was going to be from what I've seen so far and I think that is a good indication that contrast is being enhanced a decent amount with real content on screen.

Brightness performance from what I've measured out of the box is extremely close to Projector Central's review. See here for those numbers. Reference Mode has the most accurate color out of the box and unfortunately this mode doesn't put out a "competitive' amount of lumens when we look at some of the other HDR compatible projectors like the similarly priced Epson 5040 and current JVCs and Sony 4K models. I'm measuring 850 lumens in high lamp mode and I'm sure this is going to go down a bit to further to pull in the white balance and color closer to D6500 and REC709. For most people this will be fine when it comes to SDR content, but unless you have a particularly small screen, HDR might not look at it's best on this unit. With that said, I haven't looked at any HDR content yet so maybe I'm wrong here.

Some other odds and ends. I measured input input lag with the Leo Bodnar lag tester at 75ms. But this isn't a 1080p native projector and the Leo Bodnar device only outputs 1080p so if you're feeding the projector a UHD or 4K image it will more than likely have a different amount of lag. Anything 1080p sent to this projector, however, will have about 75ms of input lag. I'd also like to comment and say that RBE (rainbows) are hardly an issue. Considering the brightness, I'm surprised I haven't seen more of them. This is also the quietest DLP projector I've had here. It's as quite as a current JVC projector in low lamp mode and has the potential to put out about as much light as a JVC in it's low lamp mode. Kudos to Optoma for this achievement. I was beginning to think all DLP projectors were doomed to be loud.

These are just some quick thoughts and measurements. I hope you find it helpful. I'll be spending some more time later with this projector to see how HDR looks. I'm honestly surprised a bit at how good overall this projector performs. It definitely took me for surprise.

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post #16835 of 16847 Old Today, 08:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Great info, thanks for taking the time to post first thoughts.

850 in high lamp seems pretty low, is it close to D65/R709 @ that measurement?
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post #16836 of 16847 Old Today, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
Great info, thanks for taking the time to post first thoughts.

850 in high lamp seems pretty low, is it close to D65/R709 @ that measurement?
I can't go back to an 850 lumen projector.

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post #16837 of 16847 Old Today, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
Great info, thanks for taking the time to post first thoughts.

850 in high lamp seems pretty low, is it close to D65/R709 @ that measurement?
I'm going to try and calibrate this unit tomorrow, but I have some family things going on so it might have to wait until Sunday night. Unfortunately, I think this is par for the course with this unit. Projector Central was measuring in right around the same amount on their review sample.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post
Here's some first impressions and a few quick measurements:



Here comes the contrast numbers. It will come to no surprise to many of you to hear that it isn't as good as most of the .95" DC3 and DC4 1080p projectors that came out about a decade ago. This is a shame but a lot of this comes down to physics. The size of the mirrors on these DLP DMDs make a big difference to contrast potential. The mirrors on those DC3/DC4 1080p DMP DMDs were simply a lot larger so they had the potential for more contrast than the mirrors found on this .67" DMD.
These are just some quick thoughts and measurements. I hope you find it helpful. I'll be spending some more time later with this projector to see how HDR looks. I'm honestly surprised a bit at how good overall this projector performs. It definitely took me for surprise.
This has been very helpful Seegs, thank you....

Regarding blacks, what are your thoughts if one is only upscaling only BDs with madvr to 4K?
What about a fade to black with the auto iris engaged, does it work ok?
Did you ever see any of the usual flicker/pumping of the iris in testing dark scenes?
Ive never been able to use the feature as I hate the artefacts they all seem to introduce from time to time....

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post #16839 of 16847 Old Today, 08:44 PM - Thread Starter
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this is the info they posted, it sound like the production is similar to their pre-release.

curious to hear how HDR looks with this lumen output & R709 vs. the JVC



please post the PC text when you get a chance, thanks!
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Nice first look Seegs.

Could you do me a favor and let me know how loud the projector sounds in High Altitude mode for low and high lamp settings?
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post #16841 of 16847 Old Today, 08:54 PM
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I also didn't really say much about the negatives that I've witnessed so far. The menu system isn't particularly intuitive and (like most other projectors) there's too much crap enabled by default out of the box that do more harm than good to the image. I feel that most newbies with not realize that most of these settings should be turned off or down considerably. All the "Pure" crap is turned on by default and you need to go into like 3 different sub-menus to disable them; PureMotion, PureContrast and PureColor. "Ultra Detail" is also engaged and shouldn't be. Too much edge enhancement for my taste and I also don't like how they handle the regular "Sharpness" setting. '0' should be the default setting that best represents a neutral position. The default is '8' and is WAY too high. Pulling up a test pattern, it looks like '4' should be used and up to '6' can be used without too much damage done to the image. I also don't like that Brilliant Color is buried in the menu system as well and engaged pretty high by default. There is also no "off" setting. You can only choose from '1' to '10'. It really makes me wonder how serious the engineers were at attempting to make an enthusiast grade projector. When you don't have a '0' or 'Off' setting it makes things very confusing. Plus other odd things like including a speaker and a non-detachable lens cap (it just hangs from a string when it's not covering the lens) really make this thing feel like a cheap, plastic, business-grade projector. It honestly wouldn't surprise me at all if this projector was originally designed and intended to be sold in the business market and some tweaks here and there (black color chassis and RGB-RGB color wheel for example) were utilized to turn this into a "home theater" projector. All I'm saying is that a nice, well laid out menu system with settings that make 100% sense and a slightly high-end feel to the aesthetic and build quality go a long way into making your projector feel like it belongs with other actual "home theater" projectors.
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post #16842 of 16847 Old Today, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
This has been very helpful Seegs, thank you....

Regarding blacks, what are your thoughts if one is only upscaling only BDs with madvr to 4K?
What about a fade to black with the auto iris engaged, does it work ok?
Did you ever see any of the usual flicker/pumping of the iris in testing dark scenes?
Ive never been able to use the feature as I hate the artefacts they all seem to introduce from time to time....
There is no true fade to black on this projector. The level of black does go down a small amount more when there is nothing but an all black image on screen, but it's no where near as dark as a JVC, Sony or Epson unit that we often discuss in this ($3000+) forum. The lamp dimming feature is not invisible on this unit (nor is it on any other projector) but I would say it's definitely usable and most people will find that it's performance is good enough to be left on all the time. The relatively measly 1500:1 native contrast really needs help and Dynamic Black easily makes a noticeable difference but you may see some gamma shifts and small changes in brightness on occasion, but again, DB on this unit is better than I've seen on some other DLP units. If you get the chance definietly demo this projector or buy it from some place that has a good return policy and someone you won't feel guilty about returning a projector to.

I still feel that a JVC, Epson laser, and Sony 4K unit put out an obviously better image overall no matter if it's 1080p or 4K. This may be, however, the best currently selling DLP projector you can find in the sub $3000 market. The Vivitek HK2288 will probably be a better DLP projector than this Optoma, but the price point looks like it will be closer to $5000 from what I've read so far so they aren't 100% comparable due to the price difference.
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post #16843 of 16847 Old Today, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
this is the info they posted, it sound like the production is similar to their pre-release.

curious to hear how HDR looks with this lumen output & R709 vs. the JVC



please post the PC text when you get a chance, thanks!
It should be close. They only got their pre-production unit a few weeks ago if I remember correctly so it more than likely represented the final light engine design. I'm sure it was minor software changes that made that unit differ from the production units that recently shipped out to buyers.
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Nice first look Seegs.

Could you do me a favor and let me know how loud the projector sounds in High Altitude mode for low and high lamp settings?
I do have a relatively cheap SPL meter (this meter). Is there a specific distance you'd like for me to place the meter when I take my measurements? I haven't engaged high altitude mode, but I can tell you that High and Eco mode are essentially the quitest I've heard from any DLP projector I've had here and that number is in the dozens. It's impressive. It's about as quite as a JVC in low lamp mode, maybe a tad nosier. I'd say unless you were planning on mounting this projector directly above your head, most people will have no issue with noise coming from this projector. Though High Altitude mode might be an issue, but that's going to be the case with just about any projector out there, not just this one.
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post #16845 of 16847 Old Today, 09:21 PM
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I do have a relatively cheap SPL meter (this meter). Is there a specific distance you'd like for me to place the meter when I take my measurements? I haven't engaged high altitude mode, but I can tell you that High and Eco mode are essentially the quitest I've heard from any DLP projector I've had here and that number is in the dozens. It's impressive. It's about as quite as a JVC in low lamp mode, maybe a tad nosier. I'd say unless you were planning on mounting this projector directly above your head, most people will have no issue with noise coming from this projector. Though High Altitude mode might be an issue, but that's going to be the case with just about any projector out there, not just this one.
Thanks. Yes, high altitude is a pain when it comes to projector fans. I have a really nice, acoustically speaking, 7.2.4 atmos setup in my home theater using a Marantz Pre/Pro and GoldenEar speakers. I really like it but I often watch at night and I try to keep my volume low. The last thing I need is a noisy fan ruining the experience.

Basically, my projector will be mounted about 6 - 7 ft. above and behind me when I get one. I am waiting for CEDIA to see what comes out. My dream projector would be either a Sony 675ES equivalent under 8K or a RS620 equivalent with a laser light source. What would really make me happy is if they ran fairly quiet in high altitude mode.

Most of the time living at 8000 feet is great but it can play havoc with things like plasma tvs, cooling fans, and high dollar pressurized bulbs.
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Quote:
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It should be close. They only got their pre-production unit a few weeks ago if I remember correctly so it more than likely represented the final light engine design. I'm sure it was minor software changes that made that unit differ from the production units that recently shipped out to buyers.
I would love to try one of these out Seegs as I havent experienced DLP for years due to the rainbows on most.

However I just dont see it working in my place, what do you think?
My proj lens, X9000 is 16" down from the ceiling, the top of my screen is 30" down from the ceiling.
I thought of making a stand to turn the projector upside down to get the offset I need.
The current proj is table top in a projection booth with heaps of room.

At this price it would be a good spare, yet nothing like the X9000 I know, but its no use if I cant get the image on the screen in my place

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post #16847 of 16847 Old Today, 09:37 PM
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I would love to try one of these out Seegs as I havent experienced DLP for years due to the rainbows on most.

However I just dont see it working in my place, what do you think?
My proj lens, X9000 is 16" down from the ceiling, the top of my screen is 30" down from the ceiling.
I thought of making a stand to turn the projector upside down to get the offset I need.
The current proj is table top in a projection booth with heaps of room.

At this price it would be a good spare, yet nothing like the X9000 I know, but its no use if I cant get the image on the screen in my place
Placement of the projector is a pain too. It's really meant to be ceiling mounted as a decent amount of the vertical lens shift is only offered in one direction unlike what we normally get on the JVC/Epson/Sony units we typically discuss in this sub forum. It was a pain to get this projector set up high enough (without actually mounting it) to project properly on my screen.

When it comes down to it, no, this projector will not make you want to get rid of your X9000. You might be able to see a small amount of extra fine detail with this Optoma unit due to the higher native pixel count it has, but pretty much every other area of performance your JVC has this unit beat in. I would say hold on a few more months and see what Epson/JVC/Sony have to offer us in the fall as I'm sure one of those units will be the one to truly replace your X9000.
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